GON's KeyboardWorks - Questions and Answers

[SmallFry]

FYI, the GON's KeyboardWorks sub-forum was archived on 5 Sept 2017.

Kindly continue discussion in the Feedback Thread for GON's KeyboardWorks: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83542.0


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It works well for Sherryton, so I figured GON could use one also.
1) Are your designs open for the public, or do you produce and sell only?
2) Do you have a case that works with Filco/Phantom keyboards?

[GON]

Hi SmallFry,

1) My designs are not open. I produce and sell them as ordered.
2) Not yet. But if many members want it, I will consider.

[SpAmRaY]

Phantom 91-key case would be awesome!

Q: Gon how did you get started in keyboards?

[keymaster]

Phantom/87-key acrylic case that can fit a QFR/Filco would be awesome.

[SmallFry]

Phantom/87-key acrylic case that can fit a QFR/Filco would be awesome.

Those are looking like they're going to GB already. Cheaper Aluminum chassis would be nice.

[GON]

Phantom 91-key case would be awesome!

Q: Gon how did you get started in keyboards?

About 15 years ago, I happen to get an almost new Leading Edge DC-3014 /w Alps Blue Sliders.
The feel of typing was awesome.
This was my first step to mechanical keyboards.

[GON]

Phantom/87-key acrylic case that can fit a QFR/Filco would be awesome.

Oh... sorry... I don't make any more high quality acrylic housings now.

[SmallFry]

Do you write all your own English or do you use Google Translate or something?

[GON]

Do you write all your own English or do you use Google Translate or something?

I write my own English. I don't use google translation.
Anyway... English is not my native language. So, sometimes what I say would be a bit strange.
In that case, plz let me know the correct English.

[GON]

Do you write all your own English or do you use Google Translate or something?

I write my own English. I don't use google translation.
Anyway... English is not my native language. So, sometimes what I say would be a bit strange.
In that case, plz let me know the correct English expression.

[CPTBadAss]

GON, your English is great. Keep up the good work! I know if I went to OTD or KBD, I'd have very poor Korean and have to use Google Translate

[SmallFry]

Your English is a bit choppy, but VERY good compared to some of the English I've read. Some of your sentences don't quite flow, but the idea is there. The idea is more important than the flow of the sentence, in my opinion.

[GON]

GON, your English is great. Keep up the good work! I know if I went to OTD or KBD, I'd have very poor Korean and have to use Google Translate

Some translations from English to Korean by google are hard to understand even for a native Korean like me.

[GON]

Your English is a bit choppy, but VERY good compared to some of the English I've read. Some of your sentences don't quite flow, but the idea is there. The idea is more important than the flow of the sentence, in my opinion.

Thanks.
I hope I could have a chance to improve my English a lot.
For example, staying in an English spoken country like the US, Canada or UK.
In fact, I have never been to such countries. Here lies the reason of my clumsy English.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Do you own all these CNC machines yourself, or do you have connections to shops that manufacture your designs for cheap? It seems like you can get prototypes made easily.

[GON]

Do you own all these CNC machines yourself, or do you have connections to shops that manufacture your designs for cheap? It seems like you can get prototypes made easily.

I don't have a high precision CNC machine. Nor am I a professional CNC machine operator.
I know what I should consider when designing housings or PCBs, but don't have enough time to do CAM and ARTWork myself.
So I place an order(s) to shops. However,  I don't take all the manufacturing processes to one shop or directly shop-to-shop.
First I order CNC machining then I myself QC them. And send them to sand blasting factory, and then to anodizing company.
Even though I follow these steps, I cannot prevent all minor flaws like little scratches or unwanted pressings(?).

Quality is what I think is the most important.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I see. If you don't do prototypes inhouse yourself, then they must be very expensive for each of your new cases. I have a few 3D case designs, but getting the final prototype manufactured is between $500 - $1000+

[Turbo Slaab]

I think this was already asked, but will those GT cases fit a poker?

[GON]

I see. If you don't do prototypes inhouse yourself, then they must be very expensive for each of your new cases. I have a few 3D case designs, but getting the final prototype manufactured is between $500 - $1000+

Yes, you are right.
But no time to do it myself....

[GON]

I think this was already asked, but will those GT cases fit a poker?

I'm afraid but I gotta tell you "No" as for now...
However, if many GH members want it, I will consider it.

[Turbo Slaab]

I think this was already asked, but will those GT cases fit a poker?

I'm afraid but I gotta tell you "No" as for now...
However, if many GH members want it, I will consider it.

MANY GH members have pokers/gh60's and probably will buy the poker II. I'm pretty sure you will sell a lot!

[GON]

I think this was already asked, but will those GT cases fit a poker?

I'm afraid but I gotta tell you "No" as for now...
However, if many GH members want it, I will consider it.

MANY GH members have pokers/gh60's and probably will buy the poker II. I'm pretty sure you will sell a lot!

I think I gotta ask the members.
But they have to know... I have to try 4+ times of sampling to make it near to perfection. This takes much time...
As for GON NS 38GT, I made 5 times of sampling/prototyping, pouring a lot of time and effort...
I'm sure, however, this perfection is the joy not only to me as a designer but to everyone who gets my housing.

[Dubsgalore]

GON,

just from the pictures i have seen already, you make lovely work.
are you open for orders right now? or is there an estimated start date that we can order?

Dubs

[GON]

GON,

just from the pictures i have seen already, you make lovely work.
are you open for orders right now? or is there an estimated start date that we can order?

Dubs

I don't do acrylic works now.
But you can order GON NS housings now.
I make it when ordered. So you can choose your own anodizing color of the housing you order.

[grips]

Hi GON,

You have some very nice keyboards. I'm still very new to all of this, but I saw one of your tenkeyless cases (http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/files/attach/images/1058956/900/637/006/e07c7cf12f8667aa398bc37b468154dd.JPG) and I like it very much. Can you tell me what kind of PCB will fit?

Thank you

[GON]

Hi GON,

You have some very nice keyboards. I'm still very new to all of this, but I saw one of your tenkeyless cases (http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/files/attach/images/1058956/900/637/006/e07c7cf12f8667aa398bc37b468154dd.JPG) and I like it very much. Can you tell me what kind of PCB will fit?

Thank you

Hi grips,
A.87 and PS2AVR87 fit the housing(case) in your link.

[Sai]

do you have any pictures of fully assembled keyboard with that case ?

[GON]

do you have any pictures of fully assembled keyboard with that case ?

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=6&document_srl=6676317

This one would be the only one as for now.

[Sai]

ah thanks.

[Elrick]

do you have any pictures of fully assembled keyboard with that case ?

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=6&document_srl=6676317

This one would be the only one as for now.

The combination of Acrylic (I think it's plastic of some kind) with the Aluminum plate is sublime.  From the pics it's so highly finished like it came out of a customized factory specializing in Keyboards.

I think I may buy one from you....... soon.

[GON]

do you have any pictures of fully assembled keyboard with that case ?

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=6&document_srl=6676317

This one would be the only one as for now.

The combination of Acrylic (I think it's plastic of some kind) with the Aluminum plate is sublime.  From the pics it's so highly finished like it came out of a customized factory specializing in Keyboards.

I think I may buy one from you....... soon.

The mid part is PolyCarbonate, which is still more difficult for CNC machining than acrylic but has still much more durability!
Plastic bullet-proof glass is made of a kind of polycarbonate.

[Elrick]

The mid part is PolyCarbonate, which is still more difficult for CNC machining than acrylic but has still much more durability!
Plastic bullet-proof glass is made of a kind of polycarbonate.

If you EVER decide on a Group Buy (not pushing here immediately) for a similar Polycarbonate/Aluminim casing, then I will sign up and pay for one.

I'll be happy with a small 60 or TKL setup...... in fact anything, as long as the design and execution of it is perfect just like in the photo's  .

[Lastpilot]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

[GON]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

I don't have to make full-sized ones yet.
But who knows... if many want it.

[Elrick]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

I don't have to make full-sized ones yet.
But who knows... if many want it.

Because you design keyboards to fit existing pcb's like Poker, Pure and such, why not design a Full size keyboard because they're much rarer than TKL's and 60%'s?

If it can fit a Filco, Cherry or Ducky pcb, then you may have a unique product to offer here on Geekhack.  If you are the FIRST to offer a brand new case to fit existing keyboards I think a lot of interest and money may come your way.

I've seen your work and it's as close to perfection as it gets, hence why not expand it to offer FULL-size love for TENKEY enthusiasts.

[GON]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

I don't have to make full-sized ones yet.
But who knows... if many want it.

Because you design keyboards to fit existing pcb's like Poker, Pure and such, why not design a Full size keyboard because they're much rarer than TKL's and 60%'s?

If it can fit a Filco, Cherry or Ducky pcb, then you may have a unique product to offer here on Geekhack.  If you are the FIRST to offer a brand new case to fit existing keyboards I think a lot of interest and money may come your way.

I've seen your work and it's as close to perfection as it gets, hence why not expand it to offer FULL-size love for TENKEY enthusiasts.

When designing a case, so many factors should be taken into consideration.
The reason I don't make full-size is... to make it, stiffer material is needed if I will make a beautiful design.
With current materials, to make a full-sized one is a bit risky or have to bear some disadvantages.

The only case that I made for stock keyboards was for PokerX.
Not not now. GON NS 38GT fits 38GT PCB, not PokerX.
When a custom PCB is designed, designability for its case is considered together. But stock PCBs aren't.
Too many barriers to make a beautiful case with stock PCBs.
(Another reason is, for now it's very very easy to get a custom PCB with good functions. No reason to build with stock PCB that does not support key remapping and other useful functions.)
I think, what I make should be beautiful so that others can believe my Works will be great just because GON made it.
(Of course I made some ugly ones too because customers wanted me to make so.)

If a good full-sized custom PCB is introduced, then I will consider to design it.
I won't make it rather than I make an ugly one.


Who knows? I might someday in the future introduce you a new custom PCB for Full-sized keyboards with its case.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

Full size is not as popular on GH or Korean forums. If not many gets sold, then price for each one is higher. And cost for material and manufacturing costs are also higher since it's larger.

[Photekq]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

Full size is not as popular on GH or Korean forums. If not many gets sold, then price for each one is higher. And cost for material and manufacturing costs are also higher since it's larger.

Price difference wouldn't be too large. £20 extra for aluminium and not very much for machining. I seriously doubt it would add more than $50 and considering it'll be a $400+ keyboard anyway it isn't too much to add.

Also, just because it's less popular doesn't mean it'll sell less. I guarantee there are quite a lot of people who have been waiting for a full size custom and would jump on any opportunity to get one.

[The_Beast]

Do you have any plans to create a full-size keyboard? Maybe 104 or 108 keys?

Full size is not as popular on GH or Korean forums. If not many gets sold, then price for each one is higher. And cost for material and manufacturing costs are also higher since it's larger.

Price difference wouldn't be too large. £20 extra for aluminium and not very much for machining. I seriously doubt it would add more than $50 and considering it'll be a $400+ keyboard anyway it isn't too much to add.

Also, just because it's less popular doesn't mean it'll sell less. I guarantee there are quite a lot of people who have been waiting for a full size custom and would jump on any opportunity to get one.

Typically people who want a fullsized are going to be using it in an office. Is someone really going to pay $400+ to bring a keyboard to work over a TKL and a number pad?

[Elrick]

I think, what I make should be beautiful so that others can believe my Works will be great just because GON made it.
(Of course I made some ugly ones too because customers wanted me to make so.)

If a good full-sized custom PCB is introduced, then I will consider to design it.
I won't make it rather than I make an ugly one.

Totally understandable.  Design integrity has to shine through.

If no Full size keyboard will be done, how about one of your unique 60% designs for Geekhackers here?

You choose the material, Polycarbonate, Acrylic, Aluminum, Stainless Steel, maybe even a Lacquered Wood Veneer?

[GON]

I think, what I make should be beautiful so that others can believe my Works will be great just because GON made it.
(Of course I made some ugly ones too because customers wanted me to make so.)

If a good full-sized custom PCB is introduced, then I will consider to design it.
I won't make it rather than I make an ugly one.

Totally understandable.  Design integrity has to shine through.

If no Full size keyboard will be done, how about one of your unique 60% designs for Geekhackers here?

You choose the material, Polycarbonate, Acrylic, Aluminum, Stainless Steel, maybe even a Lacquered Wood Veneer?

I will make a case for GH60 later.
But nothing decided yet.

[mauri]

Case for gh60? Oh boy :3

[Sifo]

Should make more 75% boards :O

[grips]

Should make more 75% boards :O

I agree

[rurushu]

GON, i want to ask, about the glare options, I still cannot differentiate well the differences between the three,
do you have some comparison pictures that can contrast the difference between the three glaring options?

[GON]

In the picture... most of them are semi-glare.
And red on, the third from the GON NS 38GT Pink is non-glare, and the red one /w red bolts is a glare one.

But its hard to distinguish in the picture...
And, even though you choose semi-glare, it sometimes comes out more like non-glare or full-glare.
Anodizing is very hard to make all the same at anytime...

But this little arbitrariness makes my customers' cases Unique.
(Hard to find exactly the same ones...)

[Sifo]

I see mine! hehehe. I wish I got a pink one, they're really nice!

[WhiteFireDragon]

Here's a question. Was there a large price difference in getting a thin PCB manufactured? I have a few PCBs from different batches, and they're noticeable thinner and bend more compared to other Korean PCBs or our inhouse Phantom, ergo-dox, and GH60 PCBs. If it doesn't cost too much, have them made thicker or up your specifications on future batches?

Functionally, it won't make a difference since they're mounted on plates, but it'll still reflect higher quality and a more rigid PCB.

[rurushu]

(Attachment Link)

In the picture... most of them are semi-glare.
And red on, the third from the GON NS 38GT Pink is non-glare, and the red one /w red bolts is a glare one.

But its hard to distinguish in the picture...
And, even though you choose semi-glare, it sometimes comes out more like non-glare or full-glare.
Anodizing is very hard to make all the same at anytime...

But this little arbitrariness makes my customers' cases Unique.
(Hard to find exactly the same ones...)

I see... that is really nice when the color have a little inconsistencies, this makes no case the same!!  XD

Thanks for the info GON!!!

[GON]

Here's a question. Was there a large price difference in getting a thin PCB manufactured? I have a few PCBs from different batches, and they're noticeable thinner and bend more compared to other Korean PCBs or our inhouse Phantom, ergo-dox, and GH60 PCBs. If it doesn't cost too much, have them made thicker or up your specifications on future batches?

Functionally, it won't make a difference since they're mounted on plates, but it'll still reflect higher quality and a more rigid PCB.

Well... Experienced designers consider the specific material of the Housing, Plate, PCB.
There are a variety of materials: AL10xx, AL20xx, AL50,xx, AL60xx, AL70xx, PC, Carbon, Steel alloys...

They all feel slightly different even with the same PCB.
(Of course some PCBs make little difference, and this is one of the factors the designer considers when designing a Keyboard.)

It's the designers will which feel he would like to make with which materials.


Have you tried CEM-3 PCBs?
If you do, you will be able to find it feels much different from FR-4 PCBs.



Typing feel is not a simple matter. Quite complicated...