Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread  (Read 1901553 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Applet

  • Posts: 368
  • Location: Sweden
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6450 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 04:54:03 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

Offline bsdice

  • Posts: 2
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6451 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:06:21 »
I recently joined the my-keyboard-still-has-PS/2-crowd. Used to type on an MX Board 3.0 (MX Blue) for a couple of years, but keyboard died six weeks ago. Couldn't fix it (resolder the USB connector didn't help), maybe I can rewire it by hand with diodes using a controller board.

So got a totally new in box still in foil Dell AT102DW from 1998 in the mail today, SKCM Black Alps of course, very stiff. I know I could linearize the switches but I won't. Will rework it to SKCM Orange and SKCL Green for modifiers. Chose that particular keyboard because Alps, plastic case for sound, ISO DE layout, Windows keys (I need some extra modifier for Linux i3 desktop). Easy to get started, too, looked into fully custom but most Alps parts especially keycaps are sold out. Would need some months of patience for mechmarket to turn up all required parts and even then I'd probably have to write a bot because I've seen stuff in demand gone within 10 minutes.

Did use a PC-AT Chicony ISO DE back in 1991 with my first computer. Need to look for it in parents' house, might be mechanical even.

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5934
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6452 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:31:40 »

SKCM Black Alps of course, very stiff.


You should use them a bit to break them in.
And here is a whole new pinnacle of dumb:
"DO NOT VOTE IN THE GEORGIA RUNOFFS, THE DEEP STATE WILL BE COLLECTING EVERYONE'S INFO. THIS IS A CHARADE, MEANT TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT. STAY HOME. OSSOFF AND WARNOCK ARE A SMALL PRICE TO PAY."
"THE ONLY WAY OUR VOICES GET HEARD IS by #boycott the vote"
"#WALKAWAY FROM RINOS BRAIN KEMP AND BRAD RAFFENSBERGER. BRAIN AND BRAD THINK THEY CAN USE DOMINION VOTE MACHINES TO ELECT CRAZY WARNOCK AND LIDDLE JON OSSOFF. IF ALL PATRIOTS BOYCOTT RIGGED #GASEN ELECTION, THE SUPREME COURT WILL ORDER A REVOTE! - #ElectionFraud #KAG #HoldTheLine

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 131
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6453 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:19:37 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6454 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:55:11 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.

Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.

I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 131
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6455 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 12:00:48 »

Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.

I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.

I am already using them on blue alps + EPBT 9009. They work surprisingly well without changing the housing. Binding does occur for MT3 caps. Did you change the housing?

In any case, Alps+Nexus sliders is still way superior than MX switches to me... These days the only MX switches I use are the linear ones and box pink.



Offline gnho

  • Posts: 131
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6456 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 14:51:32 »
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6457 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 23:57:06 »
Anyone happen to have a `.dxf` file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate with layout like the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:10:39 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6458 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 00:34:18 »
Anyone happen to have a dxf file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate like for the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).

at101 wkl or at101w? are you planning on using original alps pbt caps?

I can probably make one pretty quick. just gotta get a footprint for the stab pole hole things.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 June 2020, 00:44:34 by mode »

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6459 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:16:09 »
Anyone happen to have a dxf file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate like for the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).

at101 wkl or at101w? are you planning on using original alps pbt caps?

I can probably make one pretty quick. just gotta get a footprint for the stab pole hole things.

Sorry for any confusion: I need a 60% Pok3r-style Alps plate with SGI Granite layout destined for my Mekanisk Klippe T, which is basically a standard 60% Pok3r-style case. If you're willing to help (YAASSS!), you could probably just start with the AT101 `.dxf` file from the open source thread (here), and just possibly move the space bar stabilizer clip cutouts ~0.2mm north/upward/toward-the-top-of-the-board, in order to prevent breakage of the thin metal there.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:17:51 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline d.caminero

  • Posts: 185
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6460 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 09:16:12 »
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?

I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.

Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.

I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.

Far easier to just file down a bit the opening on the nexus top housings so the keycap stem don't bind. I've made it for GMK keys and they only require two or three passes, nothing major. Not all MX keys bind, BTW

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6461 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 13:52:23 »
Shifted up 0.2mm!

Edit: use the second one, it has fixed line colours.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:52:20 by mode »

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6462 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:11:19 »
Shifted up 0.2mm!

Wow! Did you use the AT101 I linked? Crazy cool. Only thing is that it looks like there’s no [stepped] Caps Lock in the file? And I think it’s missing some metal along the right side of the Return key right stabilizer clip, no? (Or does that interfere with the mounting screw hole or something?

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6463 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:28:15 »
Shifted up 0.2mm!

Wow! Did you use the AT101 I linked? Crazy cool. Only thing is that it looks like there’s no [stepped] Caps Lock in the file? And I think it’s missing some metal along the right side of the Return key right stabilizer clip, no? (Or does that interfere with the mounting screw hole or something?

I did, just shifted them up 0.2mm.

I have sgi and dell plates I can measure for the stepped capslock, will try and figure that out tomorrow.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6464 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:38:43 »
Checked now, and the capslock is already correct, AT101/Granite capslock has a weird offset which results in the tab and capslock footprint being aligned, the bottom row is correct too for a 7u spacebar and 1.5u 1u 1.5u mods either side.

If they can manufacture the stab clips on the spacebar they can do the ANSI enter. If the file I uploaded doesn't work, then you're going to have to consider flipping the spacebar upside down. Alps stab mounts are not centred like cherry, so if you do it on the plate you'll have no choice but to go with a flipped spacebar.

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6465 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 18:04:00 »
Checked now, and the capslock is already correct, AT101/Granite capslock has a weird offset which results in the tab and capslock footprint being aligned, the bottom row is correct too for a 7u spacebar and 1.5u 1u 1.5u mods either side.

If they can manufacture the stab clips on the spacebar they can do the ANSI enter. If the file I uploaded doesn't work, then you're going to have to consider flipping the spacebar upside down. Alps stab mounts are not centred like cherry, so if you do it on the plate you'll have no choice but to go with a flipped spacebar.



Weird. It looks like it’s missing the stepped caps outline altogether, the mounting holes, as well as the stabilizer post thingy. I don’t have the Granite keycaps in front of me, so I don’t remember what the space bar post situation is there?


Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6466 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:13:34 »
huh, that’s not how it appears in qcad at all for me. will check again in a bit.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6467 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:50:54 »
There were inconsequential errors in the original file which are not visible with my CAD tool, if you clicked where you expected lines to be in the autocad viewer you'd see they're there.

I've made everything consistent with this one, I'll edit the other so nobody grabs that and uses it, though i'm sure laserboost would fabricate it fine.

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6468 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 07:22:29 »
There were inconsequential errors in the original file which are not visible with my CAD tool, if you clicked where you expected lines to be in the autocad viewer you'd see they're there.

I've made everything consistent with this one, I'll edit the other so nobody grabs that and uses it, though i'm sure laserboost would fabricate it fine.

Wow. Dude. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. My MacBook is with Apple right now (warranty repair for butterfly keyboard and random display issue), so I was *this* close to having to try Fusion360 on my wife's computer. You saved the day!



And if it's not terribly obvious by my embedded screenshot of an ancient version of Firefox: I'm currently using a ~12-year-old Mac Pro (MacPro3,1) on Mac OS X 10.6.8  :-\
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 07:27:45 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 131
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6469 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 18:40:18 »
Hi all-

I know not many people use discord but there's a new channel being created for ALPS buy-sell-trade. If you use discord, here is the invite:

https://discord.gg/ss5YUD5

Please spread the word!

Offline Little4Real

  • Posts: 137
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6470 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 03:35:58 »
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????

Wait, there's an AN-C v2????

Offline GlennL42

  • Posts: 41
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6471 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 05:41:28 »
Hogging on the Alps plate discussion from earlier, anyone knows how to/can help me with modification of dxf file for a mixed stab configuration? 

I've tried to modify it myself but as a complete caveman when it comes to coding I failed miserably in trying to comprehend it, here's my file just in case (Cherry on spacebar and Alps on the rest)

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6472 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 07:34:23 »
Hogging on the Alps plate discussion from earlier, anyone knows how to/can help me with modification of dxf file for a mixed stab configuration? 

I've tried to modify it myself but as a complete caveman when it comes to coding I failed miserably in trying to comprehend it, here's my file just in case (Cherry on spacebar and Alps on the rest)

Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?

I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.


Offline GlennL42

  • Posts: 41
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6473 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 08:22:34 »
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?

I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.

Yeah I only need Alps stab for left shift and enter only, don't know how to remove them so I left it in as is, my apologies

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6474 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 11:36:26 »
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?

I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.

Yeah I only need Alps stab for left shift and enter only, don't know how to remove them so I left it in as is, my apologies

Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?

Offline GlennL42

  • Posts: 41
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6475 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 22:28:35 »
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?

I'm using split backspace and split right shift, so no stab needed for them, sorry for not mentioning it earlier.

The layout looks like this
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 July 2020, 22:32:49 by GlennL42 »

Offline joecoolbob

  • Posts: 23
  • Location: Bay Area
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6476 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 23:27:09 »
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?

I'm using split backspace and split right shift, so no stab needed for them, sorry for not mentioning it earlier.

The layout looks like this

you can use keyboard layout editor to create your layout. From that, you can use ai03's plate generator to create your plate file.
268.2 | MEME | Kendo FE

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 131
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6477 on: Sun, 05 July 2020, 00:05:32 »
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????

Wait, there's an AN-C v2????

In the future, yeah. Now right now.

Offline shallot

  • Posts: 11
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6478 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 11:05:47 »
Swapped click leaves from alps.tw type OA2 clones into my M0116 with salmons - the result is really, really nice. I feel like the M0116 chassis really suits clicky switches.

Offline funkmon

  • Posts: 294
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6479 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 13:35:12 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1399
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6480 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 14:11:30 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6481 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 15:46:42 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.

Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1399
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6482 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 16:24:31 »
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.

They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.

Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.

Anyone else here use dampened Alps?

You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.

Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6483 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 00:35:00 »
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.

I don't mean rough as in terrible, it's just noticable, especially with lower quality SKCM black that if you remove the leave they're suddenly extremely smooth.

Interesting that linears have a leaf opposite the switch mech, didn't know that. I do wonder if the slider plastic is indeed a little different. SKCM sliders certainly do vary a bunch, some are, oily, some feel completely dry and they exhibit different properties when rubbed against housing and/or metal.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1399
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6484 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 09:30:30 »
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!

I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.

I don't mean rough as in terrible, it's just noticable, especially with lower quality SKCM black that if you remove the leave they're suddenly extremely smooth.

Interesting that linears have a leaf opposite the switch mech, didn't know that. I do wonder if the slider plastic is indeed a little different. SKCM sliders certainly do vary a bunch, some are, oily, some feel completely dry and they exhibit different properties when rubbed against housing and/or metal.

Yeah, their linears feel great too if you ask me. There's something of a subtle tactile bump at the very end of travel that's difficult to describe, it sort of gradually builds until just before it bottoms out. Very smooth too.

I haven't noticed any scratchiness of Alps or Matias clickies that are in good shape, they've always felt like butter to me. Even relatively early SKCM whites feel buttery, the tactile event just isn't quite as nice.

I have only one black Alps board and have only felt a few AT101s at a scrapyard, so I figured those were all just a little dirty. I suppose that gives me a little hope, because I already have way too many old Alps boards to clean. I figured a NeXT keyboard was probably the coolest thing I was ever going to find if I were to only get one black Alps board.

Would you say that brown Alps are similarly scratchy by design? I just got one of those weird old IBM nursing terminal keyboards ... and the plate is attached to the case with plastic rivets, so I imagine that's going to be tought to thoroughly clean without further ruining the case's finish.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6485 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 11:46:35 »
Yeah, their linears feel great too if you ask me. There's something of a subtle tactile bump at the very end of travel that's difficult to describe, it sort of gradually builds until just before it bottoms out. Very smooth too.

I haven't noticed any scratchiness of Alps or Matias clickies that are in good shape, they've always felt like butter to me. Even relatively early SKCM whites feel buttery, the tactile event just isn't quite as nice.

I have only one black Alps board and have only felt a few AT101s at a scrapyard, so I figured those were all just a little dirty. I suppose that gives me a little hope, because I already have way too many old Alps boards to clean. I figured a NeXT keyboard was probably the coolest thing I was ever going to find if I were to only get one black Alps board.

Would you say that brown Alps are similarly scratchy by design? I just got one of those weird old IBM nursing terminal keyboards ... and the plate is attached to the case with plastic rivets, so I imagine that's going to be tought to thoroughly clean without further ruining the case's finish.

I’ve yet to try brown alps, and I wouldn’t go as far as to say any alps are scratchy by design, just that those metal leaves are the source of it when the switches are in bad condition.

it would’t surprise me if browns were more resistant to it as the tactile leaf is a mirror of a switch plate and they never seem to have issues.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1399
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6486 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 12:25:11 »
Yeah, their linears feel great too if you ask me. There's something of a subtle tactile bump at the very end of travel that's difficult to describe, it sort of gradually builds until just before it bottoms out. Very smooth too.

I haven't noticed any scratchiness of Alps or Matias clickies that are in good shape, they've always felt like butter to me. Even relatively early SKCM whites feel buttery, the tactile event just isn't quite as nice.

I have only one black Alps board and have only felt a few AT101s at a scrapyard, so I figured those were all just a little dirty. I suppose that gives me a little hope, because I already have way too many old Alps boards to clean. I figured a NeXT keyboard was probably the coolest thing I was ever going to find if I were to only get one black Alps board.

Would you say that brown Alps are similarly scratchy by design? I just got one of those weird old IBM nursing terminal keyboards ... and the plate is attached to the case with plastic rivets, so I imagine that's going to be tought to thoroughly clean without further ruining the case's finish.

I’ve yet to try brown alps, and I wouldn’t go as far as to say any alps are scratchy by design, just that those metal leaves are the source of it when the switches are in bad condition.

it would’t surprise me if browns were more resistant to it as the tactile leaf is a mirror of a switch plate and they never seem to have issues.

I have SKCL greens and yellows that are definitely pretty rough. Not as rough as my worst SKCM blues, but not great. I suppose I'll have to tear apart that nursing board afterall, those brown switches don't feel great.

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6487 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 02:18:05 »
I have SKCL greens and yellows that are definitely pretty rough. Not as rough as my worst SKCM blues, but not great. I suppose I'll have to tear apart that nursing board afterall, those brown switches don't feel great.

I'm surprised, though I suspect I've just had incredible luck with alps, only had two boards in truly bad condition, an AT102 and an amazingly ****ty blue alps board I got off ebay for a rather cheap sum, I basically got what I paid for with that. Everything else (I have around a dozen alps boards) has been in fundamentally decent condition and cleaned up smooth.

Have you cleaned them all up? There's no substitute for detailing them one by one IMO. They should clean up nice as long as there isn't abrasive dirt in them and hopefully the slider still has the original lube (if it's gen 1 and had it).

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1399
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6488 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 10:27:13 »
I have SKCL greens and yellows that are definitely pretty rough. Not as rough as my worst SKCM blues, but not great. I suppose I'll have to tear apart that nursing board afterall, those brown switches don't feel great.

I'm surprised, though I suspect I've just had incredible luck with alps, only had two boards in truly bad condition, an AT102 and an amazingly ****ty blue alps board I got off ebay for a rather cheap sum, I basically got what I paid for with that. Everything else (I have around a dozen alps boards) has been in fundamentally decent condition and cleaned up smooth.

Have you cleaned them all up? There's no substitute for detailing them one by one IMO. They should clean up nice as long as there isn't abrasive dirt in them and hopefully the slider still has the original lube (if it's gen 1 and had it).

I have not yet. I always have way too many projects. That weird old SKCC terminal board is still in pieces, and so is a Zenith ZKB-2 I had planned on attempting to restore.

Offline gaunt

  • Posts: 28
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6489 on: Mon, 14 September 2020, 14:23:08 »
Does anyone have some thoughts on wood vs plastic for Alps sound? I'm planning a 60% build with oranges, but I'm a bit unsure whether to use my ADK64 3d printed plastic case, or try to get my hands on one of those Royal Glam wood cases (think they're mostly oak?).

I have the intuition that wood  may not be that great sound-wise in a compact case... is it the "roomy-ness" of the case that magnifies/deepens the sound, or the (low) density of the material? Is it best to have a case with slim bezels, or is more case material better?

I'm honestly completely lost as to figuring out which materials sound good based on youtube typing videos, even though I've looked at so many. I'm not sure what causes the huge difference between videos (if it's just varying microphone setups causing the difference), but I've heard good and bad typing sounds from cases of every material...  Even when it comes to metal cases, most AEK64 alu cases sound mediocre at best, but then Taeha (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSsBVIDhmsU) has one that sounds fantastic, and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qdZkq_z5a8) one-off alu case sounds pretty good as well...

Offline nevin

  • Posts: 970
  • Location: US
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6490 on: Mon, 14 September 2020, 14:34:43 »
check the godfather of alps Chryosran22 (Thomas), has tons of info/demos of alps
usually the roomier the case the beter the sound, usually the more solid the case the better the sound. there are fixes for spring/plate "ping"
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6491 on: Mon, 14 September 2020, 15:26:14 »
check the godfather of alps Chryosran22 (Thomas), has tons of info/demos of alps
usually the roomier the case the beter the sound, usually the more solid the case the better the sound. there are fixes for spring/plate "ping"

I have the Lunar [AEK] and the AEK64. Both are heavy, thick integrated-plate keyboards. My take is that with tactile and linear Alps, it's best to go with lighter, more flexible plates (ABS, CF, etc.) and heavier cases, or heavier plates (stainless/brass) with a lighter case (polycarbonate). The latter mimics what Alps used for all Bigfoot-style keyboards like the AEK/AEKII's, SGI Granite/Beige, AT101 etc.

I'm not sure the case size or bezel size have much to do with it.

Unfortunately, the Lunar and AEK64 don't really fit into either of my aforementioned plate/case combinations. Still, when I built my Lunar, I used SKCM oranges, and I like the result a lot. I used some dampening material inside the case, and that helped reduce some reverb nicely. There's still some ping, but that's just how it is with heavy integrated plate keyboards. The AEK64 I purchased came with brown Alps, and it was incredibly harsh, both in terms of feel *and* sound. Clicky Alps actually pair quite well in those thick integrated plate keyboards, as the cases tend to amplify the click leaf actuation. I tried SKCM amber and blues in my AEK64, but ultimately settled on blues. The ambers were fun, but like SKCM browns, I don't think I would want to daily driver them (they're so heavy). Anyways, I still put some dampening foam in my AEK64, just to take some reverb out.

TL;DR:

* For tactile/linear Alps, light plate with heavy case, or heavy plate with light case
* For clicky Alps, same as tactile/linear, but thick integrated plates work well too

Offline gaunt

  • Posts: 28
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6492 on: Tue, 15 September 2020, 10:42:43 »
check the godfather of alps Chryosran22 (Thomas), has tons of info/demos of alps
usually the roomier the case the beter the sound, usually the more solid the case the better the sound. there are fixes for spring/plate "ping"

Who do you think got me into Alps? :p - I've watched most of his videos, but somehow missed that one. Thanks, interesting stuff for sure.

I have the Lunar [AEK] and the AEK64. Both are heavy, thick integrated-plate keyboards. My take is that with tactile and linear Alps, it's best to go with lighter, more flexible plates (ABS, CF, etc.) and heavier cases, or heavier plates (stainless/brass) with a lighter case (polycarbonate). The latter mimics what Alps used for all Bigfoot-style keyboards like the AEK/AEKII's, SGI Granite/Beige, AT101 etc.

I'm not sure the case size or bezel size have much to do with it.

Unfortunately, the Lunar and AEK64 don't really fit into either of my aforementioned plate/case combinations. Still, when I built my Lunar, I used SKCM oranges, and I like the result a lot. I used some dampening material inside the case, and that helped reduce some reverb nicely. There's still some ping, but that's just how it is with heavy integrated plate keyboards. The AEK64 I purchased came with brown Alps, and it was incredibly harsh, both in terms of feel *and* sound. Clicky Alps actually pair quite well in those thick integrated plate keyboards, as the cases tend to amplify the click leaf actuation. I tried SKCM amber and blues in my AEK64, but ultimately settled on blues. The ambers were fun, but like SKCM browns, I don't think I would want to daily driver them (they're so heavy). Anyways, I still put some dampening foam in my AEK64, just to take some reverb out.

TL;DR:

* For tactile/linear Alps, light plate with heavy case, or heavy plate with light case
* For clicky Alps, same as tactile/linear, but thick integrated plates work well too

Thanks man, that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. I guess it shouldn't be that hard to find a 60% metal plate for my ADK64... any thoughts on aluminium vs stainless steel vs brass? I suppose it would be a pretty subtle difference.

Also, regarding that Lunar with oranges... tbh the Lunar is kinda my dream case visually, although I've lost interest somewhat lately due to most typing videos on it not sounding all that good, and the extreme difficulty in getting into a group buy for the upcoming Lunar II. Any chance you have made or can make a typing video/soundbyte from it?
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 September 2020, 12:27:04 by gaunt »

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6493 on: Tue, 15 September 2020, 12:39:52 »
Quote
Thanks man, that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. I guess it shouldn't be that hard to find a 60% metal plate for my ADK64... any thoughts on aluminium vs stainless steel vs brass? I suppose it would be a pretty subtle difference.

I prefer polycarbonate to aluminum, but it's sometimes hard to get a laser cutting service to work with that material (at least LaserBoost and LaserGist both don't work with it). But I would certainly take aluminum over a harder material like stainless or brass.

Quote
Also, regarding that Lunar with oranges... tbh the Lunar is kinda my dream case visually, although I've lost interest somewhat lately due to most typing videos on it not sounding all that good, and the extreme difficulty in getting into a group buy for the upcoming Lunar II. Any chance you have made or can make a typing video/soundbyte from it?

I would say mine sounds fairly close to both this video and this video. I copied the Bigfoot/AT101 "Band-Aid material under the spacebar "hook" areas. This made it less echo-y. If I could go back in time, I probably wouldn't get a Lunar again. The integrated plate design just isn't synergistic with Alps. If you listen with headphones in both those videos I linked, you can hear the inherent echo-y-ness. Orange Alps in less thick, non integrated-plate cases don't sound as clacky; they're more "clocky." Not sure if my made-up words make sense. I would certainly look into Lunar II, though. Currently, it's a more traditional tray-mount 60% case, so you could more easily pair that board with whatever Alps you wanted and it would for sure sound better than the Lunar ;)
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 September 2020, 12:41:29 by toniwonkanobi »

Offline no, the other guy

  • Posts: 175
  • Location: Germany
  • actually, this guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6494 on: Sun, 20 September 2020, 13:47:54 »
My girlfriend and a friend of us both got me a Dell AT101W for my birthday, I unwrapped it yesterday. I must admit that I like the soft feeling even when compared to my two Buckling Spring  keyboards. I might or might not use it as a daily driver on one of my laptops... hmm.  :thumb:
<armin> i have the impression the only reason the mx red switch was invented was drunk people

Unicomp PC122 (review) * IBM Model F XT * Dell AT101W

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6495 on: Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:07:16 »
My girlfriend and a friend of us both got me a Dell AT101W for my birthday, I unwrapped it yesterday. I must admit that I like the soft feeling even when compared to my two Buckling Spring  keyboards. I might or might not use it as a daily driver on one of my laptops... hmm.  :thumb:

Does that have SKCM salmons?

Offline no, the other guy

  • Posts: 175
  • Location: Germany
  • actually, this guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6496 on: Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:08:22 »
The W is the black variant. :)
<armin> i have the impression the only reason the mx red switch was invented was drunk people

Unicomp PC122 (review) * IBM Model F XT * Dell AT101W

Offline toniwonkanobi

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6497 on: Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:09:06 »
The W is the black variant. :)

Ahh. I missed the "W." That's the ISO version, yea?

Offline no, the other guy

  • Posts: 175
  • Location: Germany
  • actually, this guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6498 on: Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:10:27 »
It is a QWERTY variant with a one-line Return key. I’ll never understand those Americans...
Anyway, I’ll keep my QWERTZ layout with it.
<armin> i have the impression the only reason the mx red switch was invented was drunk people

Unicomp PC122 (review) * IBM Model F XT * Dell AT101W

Offline mode

  • Posts: 297
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6499 on: Mon, 21 September 2020, 00:49:31 »
The W is the black variant. :)

Ahh. I missed the "W." That's the ISO version, yea?

W means with windows keys.

AT102 was the ISO version.