Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 668722 times)

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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5150 on: Wed, 28 October 2020, 20:28:54 »

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.

Is that really an unpopular opinion, though? Premium rubber-domes have a significant following.

Which 'top-tier rubber domes' feel better than most mechanical tactiles? MX tactility is a widely-acknowledged problem.

Offline ItIsWritten

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5151 on: Wed, 28 October 2020, 20:38:51 »
flipped spacebars were always cool
who said they werent

you shoulda seen this place a few years ago..


Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback

it's too bad that a little dirt will ruin them, cause clean black invaders are smooth af. and between "space invader" and "angry bear", they have both of the two coolest names.


It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

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some of us just don't use the function row/numpad, not that crazy
Yes, but that doesn't mean that leaving then out makes for a better board...

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Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5152 on: Wed, 28 October 2020, 21:04:17 »
flipped spacebars were always cool
who said they werent

you shoulda seen this place a few years ago..


Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback

it's too bad that a little dirt will ruin them, cause clean black invaders are smooth af. and between "space invader" and "angry bear", they have both of the two coolest names.


It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

some of us just don't use the function row/numpad, not that crazy
Yes, but that doesn't mean that leaving then out makes for a better board...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk
it does when it means my board doesn't have a massive footprint

« Last Edit: Wed, 28 October 2020, 21:26:33 by hwood34 »
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Offline Crabby

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5153 on: Thu, 29 October 2020, 02:57:09 »

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.

Is that really an unpopular opinion, though? Premium rubber-domes have a significant following.

Which 'top-tier rubber domes' feel better than most mechanical tactiles? MX tactility is a widely-acknowledged problem.

To be honest I overall enjoy most dome with sliders over my alps tactile boards though I've never tried orange alps.

Offline NassimO

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5154 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 01:25:25 »
I prefer keyboards with the numpad on the left.

 :p

Offline NoteMakoti

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5155 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 01:30:25 »
I prefer keyboards with the numpad on the left.

 :p
Southpaw/Lefthanded numpads are way easier to use for right handed people. I'm kind of surprised they aren't standard.

Offline NassimO

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5156 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 02:03:42 »
I prefer keyboards with the numpad on the left.

 :p
Southpaw/Lefthanded numpads are way easier to use for right handed people. I'm kind of surprised they aren't standard.

Right ? I was kinda skeptical when i saw this for the first time but i wanted to try it so i got one and oh boy does it feel incredible to use. Especially when you have to type values, you can simply use your left hand and keep the right one on the mouse.

Offline Learis

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5157 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 12:26:59 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.
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Offline hvontres

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5158 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 13:07:28 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers :
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Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5159 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 14:47:04 »
I used to think like that

but then I had to type for long sessions. Now even TX 65g long spring feels a little tiring to type on the linear switch.
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Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5160 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 14:48:56 »
Oh, I forgot this is unpopular opinion. I guess I am part of the popular opinion then.


One Unpopular Opinion I have  is  that I don't like flexible plate.
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Offline Learis

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5161 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 17:23:18 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

That's understandable. But it just seems like 90% of the community wants somewhere between 60-70g switches, or at least the market is mostly catering to that resistance. Hehe, I compare gat reds at 45g to gat clears at 35g and it's night and day almost. Also, higher resistance switches force you to exert more force which can cause a more jarring bottom out. You can type more gently with lighter ones so it seems like the preferable choice for long sessions. If you look at stenographers who have to type non-stop, they have special switches and keyboards that can be sub 20g actuation!

That ends my thesis on why I'm right and the world's wrong. As far as fat fingers goes, it makes me wonder if there's specific keycaps designed with fat fingers in mind... maybe more surface area on them or something :)
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5162 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 18:01:41 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

That's understandable. But it just seems like 90% of the community wants somewhere between 60-70g switches, or at least the market is mostly catering to that resistance. Hehe, I compare gat reds at 45g to gat clears at 35g and it's night and day almost. Also, higher resistance switches force you to exert more force which can cause a more jarring bottom out. You can type more gently with lighter ones so it seems like the preferable choice for long sessions. If you look at stenographers who have to type non-stop, they have special switches and keyboards that can be sub 20g actuation!

That ends my thesis on why I'm right and the world's wrong. As far as fat fingers goes, it makes me wonder if there's specific keycaps designed with fat fingers in mind... maybe more surface area on them or something :)

Nowhere near 90% of the community is between 60-70g actuation.  Also, most of these springs nowadays are rated at bottom out...which puts 60-70g springs at 40-55g actuation. 

If you mean 60-70g bottom out then you're comparing apples to oranges because you're comparing bottom out weight to actuation weight of another switch. 

Offline hvontres

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5163 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 18:11:40 »
[As far as fat fingers goes, it makes me wonder if there's specific keycaps designed with fat fingers in mind... maybe more surface area on them or something :)

MT3 is working out really well for me. Just got a set of Susuwatari for my next build.
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1986 Model M 1390131, 1987 Model M 1391401 , 1993 Model M2 Modded Reddragon k556(work keyboard)

Offline Learis

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5164 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 23:00:19 »

Nowhere near 90% of the community is between 60-70g actuation.  Also, most of these springs nowadays are rated at bottom out...which puts 60-70g springs at 40-55g actuation. 

If you mean 60-70g bottom out then you're comparing apples to oranges because you're comparing bottom out weight to actuation weight of another switch.

My mistake. I get confused. Some people/companies list by the actuation while others list by the bottom out. I would be genuinely surprised if anything with a 60-70g bottom out had below a 45g actuation though.
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Offline jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5165 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 23:31:48 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

Well, that's certainly an unpopular opinion.

Only time I have encountered a 35g actuation board was on a variable Realforce, and I couldn't fathom how anyone could type on one of those things, without accidental keypresses all over the place.

Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5166 on: Mon, 02 November 2020, 16:48:45 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

That's understandable. But it just seems like 90% of the community wants somewhere between 60-70g switches, or at least the market is mostly catering to that resistance. Hehe, I compare gat reds at 45g to gat clears at 35g and it's night and day almost. Also, higher resistance switches force you to exert more force which can cause a more jarring bottom out. You can type more gently with lighter ones so it seems like the preferable choice for long sessions. If you look at stenographers who have to type non-stop, they have special switches and keyboards that can be sub 20g actuation!

Yeah but I have to assume that the very non-traditional method that stenos use to type has something to do with that
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Offline arydi

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5167 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 18:54:40 »
Maybe it's because I learned to touch type on a Royal mechanical typewriter that I prefer heavy tactile switches.   For me, it doesn't get much better than 78g Zilents with MT3 or DSS.

Offline dotor

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5168 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 19:29:31 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

Well, that's certainly an unpopular opinion.

Only time I have encountered a 35g actuation board was on a variable Realforce, and I couldn't fathom how anyone could type on one of those things, without accidental keypresses all over the place.

I remember when my co-worker brought his MX speed silvers in and I would actuate keys just while resting my fingers on the keys.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5169 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 22:25:17 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

For a long time I thought I hated linear switches, but I actually just hated MX Reds because they are so light that I make a bunch of mistakes; I guess I'd describe the feeling as "sloppy". A couple of years ago, I experimented with 100g MX Silent Blacks, and they were a *tad* too heavy; however, now I enjoy regular MX Blacks and BOX Yellows because they have a really "cushioned" feel to them. I actually find that I don't bottom out as hard on these as with lighter switches because of that cushioned feeling.

I do also like heavy clicky switches like BOX Navy, but they definitely do cause harsh bottom-outs because of the added resistance of the click bar.

The only heavy switch I didn't much care for was BOX Royal. Something about both heavy and extreme tactility just made my fingers really tired, to the point of aching sometimes.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline markanini

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5170 on: Sun, 08 November 2020, 13:44:16 »
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2020, 15:13:50 by markanini »

Offline rxc92

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5171 on: Mon, 09 November 2020, 00:49:24 »
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
 
 
Lots of users are in their thirties+? It wasn't until recently that younger kids started being a big demographic.

Offline markanini

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5172 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 03:25:47 »
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
 
 
Lots of users are in their thirties+? It wasn't until recently that younger kids started being a big demographic.
If so that implies no demographic is providing demand for more timeless designs.

Offline dtywill

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5173 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 05:18:07 »
While I am guilty of it myself, I don't really understand why we are all so obsessed with the bottom of the keyboard.   We never see it unless we lift it up to see and then the other 99% of the time you can't see any of it.  But gotta have the best brass/stainless steel/whatever material weight we can find so that it can just sit on our desk hidden lol

Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5174 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 05:24:31 »
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
 
 
Lots of users are in their thirties+? It wasn't until recently that younger kids started being a big demographic.

you'd be surprised how many of the biggest vintage enthusiasts are in their teens/early twenties
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Offline Protato_Tubby

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5175 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 05:34:45 »
I have an M122 and it doesn't feel as well made or as nice to type on as my Dell AT 102 W.

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Offline yui

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5176 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 07:01:29 »
I have an M122 and it doesn't feel as well made or as nice to type on as my Dell AT 102 W.
I think it depends on the generation, late M122 were cheapened quite a bit but Dell AT 102 stopped production before becoming cheaper, so both having some of the best switches around, to me it make sense. if it were compared to an apple butterfly then i would have called you mad :) i love my 122 but i can see that LOUD NOISES and heavy springs are not for everyone, and that it is not the best construction ever either.
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Offline markanini

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5177 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 08:10:43 »
you'd be surprised how many of the biggest vintage enthusiasts are in their teens/early twenties

Possibly a majority. Because after 30 people generally let go of shallow idealism and give in to more primal desires. And this mirrors the split audience between garish designs and vintage replicas.

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5178 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 08:53:51 »
In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

Off topic reply: Cool ring dude! I got one that is a similar style.

255603-0

Offline Merranza

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5179 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 09:44:21 »
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

I am on team extreme light linear too :) I even find my 35 gat clears heavy at times and would like something even lighter :)

2 other unpopular opinions:

- Sometimes I feel like most of the mechanical keyboard community tries to justify the hype of "new features" by trashing what was considered good or even excellent not so long ago. I'm absolutely not against development and novelties, I just hate the whole sheep thinking of following fads which is a very huge inherent characteristic of the community.

- (Probably related to my previous unpopular opinion) I don't get why the "only viable and decent cases nowadays" are high profile ones. I really prefer the look of floating keys... not for the RGB flashy gaming side of it but simply for the overall "breathing and light" feeling it gives. I don't like how thick, heavy and cumbersome many high profile keyboards look like. The whole "floating keys gets dirtier than high profile" is exactly related to my previous comment. Dust travels in air (upwards and downwards) and settles between keys. The high profile side of the case doesn't protect more against dust than a floating keys design (in fact, it just hides it better but it is still dirty). Add to this the dead skin of fingers that gets under... Dusting and cleaning a floating key design is just much easier (tilt to the side, use a gentle brush...). As for the "high profile protects switches better", we don't even have to get into that...
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 November 2020, 09:47:14 by Merranza »

Offline yui

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5180 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 02:18:58 »
i guess the case thing is a cycle, it seems that a while back all cases were low profile, both have their merits, high profile should protect the switches (not from dust but from lateral forces) while low profile should be cheaper, the aesthetic of both being subjective.

and for switches, coming from an M and not felling any pain after 8+ hours of typing i do like heavier switches, but currently typing on silent reds and although i bottom out (very) hard it is perfectly usable, i do not think that i could go lighter on the space-bar though as i partially depress it at all time resting my thumbs on it.

and the trashing of old features when new comes out is the base of consumerism, marketers do it to sell you the new feature and then you repeat it to feel good about your purchase of the new feature...
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Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5181 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 02:23:02 »
rotary encoders on boards are a cool idea but mostly look bad
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Offline hvontres

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5182 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 14:15:06 »
rotary encoders on boards are a cool idea but mostly look bad

I think pylon pulled it off pretty well on the Boston:


Of course, having the extra row of buttons helps :)
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1986 Model M 1390131, 1987 Model M 1391401 , 1993 Model M2 Modded Reddragon k556(work keyboard)

Offline markanini

  • Posts: 7
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5183 on: Fri, 13 November 2020, 19:40:12 »
- (Probably related to my previous unpopular opinion) I don't get why the "only viable and decent cases nowadays" are high profile ones. I really prefer the look of floating keys... not for the RGB flashy gaming side of it but simply for the overall "breathing and light" feeling it gives. I don't like how thick, heavy and cumbersome many high profile keyboards look like. The whole "floating keys gets dirtier than high profile" is exactly related to my previous comment. Dust travels in air (upwards and downwards) and settles between keys. The high profile side of the case doesn't protect more against dust than a floating keys design (in fact, it just hides it better but it is still dirty). Add to this the dead skin of fingers that gets under... Dusting and cleaning a floating key design is just much easier (tilt to the side, use a gentle brush...). As for the "high profile protects switches better", we don't even have to get into that...
High profile has a better sound, and resting your fingers in the area above the arrow keys won't have a severe drop.

Offline elderbong

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5184 on: Mon, 16 November 2020, 12:43:31 »
Heavy modern metal cases of anodized aluminium, extremely polished steel or brass etc. for keyboards are the equivalent of driving a gold plated Lamborghini on city streets - bordering on pointless vanity. Not only is metal as a case material completely unnecessary (I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use) it adds nothing particularly tangible to the durability of the keyboard itself since the case just hides the same, more or less cheap PCB's inside that every mech keeb has. At least an expensive sports car gets you a sports engine. Metal cases serve nothing more than for conspicuous consumption and to create artificial luxury tiers in the hobby.

Old metal keyboards get a free pass on this because it was thought at the time that computers would last and not become obsolete so quickly. There was also a clear marriage between form and function, even if they were overbuilt - something modern keebs lack.

It doesn't mean I dislike metal cases or that all of them (or even most) are tacky.

I'm inclined to agree with this opinion, with the one caveat that a metal chassis for larger boards may be better overall for rigidity and just feeling more solid overall.  But for anything like a 60% I feel like it almost defeats the purpose, at least if you intend to take the board anywhere other than right in front of your monitor.  I've been perfectly satisfied with the plastic cases I have.

Offline alas26

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5185 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 21:59:00 »
- (Probably related to my previous unpopular opinion) I don't get why the "only viable and decent cases nowadays" are high profile ones. I really prefer the look of floating keys... not for the RGB flashy gaming side of it but simply for the overall "breathing and light" feeling it gives. I don't like how thick, heavy and cumbersome many high profile keyboards look like. The whole "floating keys gets dirtier than high profile" is exactly related to my previous comment. Dust travels in air (upwards and downwards) and settles between keys. The high profile side of the case doesn't protect more against dust than a floating keys design (in fact, it just hides it better but it is still dirty). Add to this the dead skin of fingers that gets under... Dusting and cleaning a floating key design is just much easier (tilt to the side, use a gentle brush...). As for the "high profile protects switches better", we don't even have to get into that...
High profile has a better sound, and resting your fingers in the area above the arrow keys won't have a severe drop.
Agreed


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Offline Mikhail

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5186 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 02:26:29 »
People should stop to produce 65% customs, and start make 60% with arrows and r.shift=question mark.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5187 on: Tue, 01 December 2020, 08:39:57 »


I'm inclined to agree with this opinion, with the one caveat that a metal chassis for larger boards may be better overall for rigidity and just feeling more solid overall.  But for anything like a 60% I feel like it almost defeats the purpose, at least if you intend to take the board anywhere other than right in front of your monitor.  I've been perfectly satisfied with the plastic cases I have.

You'll be pleased to know that attractive, affordable 65-68% keyboards are becoming available with translucent plastics / polycarb-style case materials. The NK65 got it rolling, now we have the KBD67 Lite, and coming soon probably the IKKI68 Aurora.