Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 622246 times)

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Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5000 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 16:24:32 »


With proprietary layers/mapping for the lost hotkeys on a single board (or multiples with the exact same programming) and that's all you use, then yes. I would hate to have to live like that. There are way too many random, weird, old, or all of the above keyboards I would rather be able to just touch type on with as little change in muscle memory as possible, that and I couldn't use just one keyboard forever if I had wanted to.

That's why I specified 60%, almost all of which come with the ability to remap the layout. To be clear, I think arrow keys are extremely important. So important that I don't want them to be far away from the home rows or the prime real estate area. Imagine the alphas as the central park in Manhattan, I often map the arrows to be very near it instead of in the usual area even when I'm working with a full or TKL. 

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5001 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 16:31:57 »


With proprietary layers/mapping for the lost hotkeys on a single board (or multiples with the exact same programming) and that's all you use, then yes. I would hate to have to live like that. There are way too many random, weird, old, or all of the above keyboards I would rather be able to just touch type on with as little change in muscle memory as possible, that and I couldn't use just one keyboard forever if I had wanted to.

That's why I specified 60%, almost all of which come with the ability to remap the layout. To be clear, I think arrow keys are extremely important. So important that I don't want them to be far away from the home rows or the prime real estate area. Imagine the alphas as the central park in Manhattan, I often map the arrows to be very near it instead of in the usual area even when I'm working with a full or TKL.

Yeah, I figured that was the case. I don't mess with mapping unless that mapping follows the keyboard through its own internal controller, or a converter that I pair with it, and usually only for something that most keyboards don't have a standard location for anyway, or nothing dedicated at all, like volume control, etc.

I would hate to have to set up a custom mapping on every single computer I happen to use, which is very many.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5002 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 21:48:44 »




Yeah, I figured that was the case. I don't mess with mapping unless that mapping follows the keyboard through its own internal controller, or a converter that I pair with it, and usually only for something that most keyboards don't have a standard location for anyway, or nothing dedicated at all, like volume control, etc.

I would hate to have to set up a custom mapping on every single computer I happen to use, which is very many.

I put my autohotkey script on Dropbox so my home and no longer used office computers share the same script.

Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Other hotkeys I really enjoy are:
CTRL+1=CTRL+home
CTRL+2=CTRL+End
LSHFT+A=", " , Left
LSHFT+S=(,), Left

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Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5003 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:58:43 »
Okay, I'll try it. Let's see what happens. As a bonus, the F XT already has that in the right spot, so we'll see how it goes.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5004 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 01:10:12 »
Okay, I'll try it. Let's see what happens. As a bonus, the F XT already has that in the right spot, so we'll see how it goes.
Please report back! Chromebook actually allows native remapping of the control key to where caps lock usually is.

Model F AT and some beamspring boards also have control there.

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Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5005 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 02:07:06 »
Genuinely so far so good, actually. My only issue so far has been the old Ctrl+Shift+Esc. Other stuff like Ctrl+W and Ctrl+T and so on have been swell. Maybe what I'll do then is remap the bottom left key to Win...hmm.

Dear god I might turn into one of you nutcases with a goofy ass layout that nobody else can use.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5006 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 02:19:09 »
Genuinely so far so good, actually. My only issue so far has been the old Ctrl+Shift+Esc. Other stuff like Ctrl+W and Ctrl+T and so on have been swell. Maybe what I'll do then is remap the bottom left key to Win...hmm.

Dear god I might turn into one of you nutcases with a goofy ass layout that nobody else can use.
Seriously having two controls is still better than having caps lock there. Caps lock belongs to Siberia or basement, not home row.

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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5007 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 10:58:31 »
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have seen someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:14:38 by Maledicted »

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5008 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:12:57 »
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5009 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:34:58 »
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, ctrl I use constantly. I just don't like it being where caps lock normally is. My fingers are pretty long, and I used ctrl thousands of times a day for a year straight doing data entry. My muscle memory, and repetition, made it so that its normal location is instinct and somehow quite comfortable, to the point that I don't quite understand the preference towards the inverse.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5010 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:45:19 »
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, ctrl I use constantly. I just don't like it being where caps lock normally is. My fingers are pretty long, and I used ctrl thousands of times a day for a year straight doing data entry. My muscle memory, and repetition, made it so that its normal location is instinct and somehow quite comfortable, to the point that I don't quite understand the preference towards the inverse.

Yeah like what I said, do what's best for you. I'm just encouraging people to give it a try if they haven't.

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5011 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:09:32 »
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

I did, didn't care for it. I could 100% get used to it, but it wasn't worth the hassle. This is probably due to me being primarily a mac user, and even on linux I map ctrl to cmd on apple keyboards, so things mostly work as they do on OS X, so my bottom row is ctrl, alt, ctrl, space, ctrl, alt fn, ctrl. Kinda wacky and effectively WKL but it works really well for me, far better than capslock to ctrl.

Hot take and likely unpopular opinion: cmd is the best modifier key, it's infinitely more comfortable than ctrl. It's also amazingly good for behaving the same way as usual when using a terminal, no need to use shift to copy and past, cmd-c and cmd-v work normally, ctrl-c works normally, bliss.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5012 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:26:04 »
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, ctrl I use constantly. I just don't like it being where caps lock normally is. My fingers are pretty long, and I used ctrl thousands of times a day for a year straight doing data entry. My muscle memory, and repetition, made it so that its normal location is instinct and somehow quite comfortable, to the point that I don't quite understand the preference towards the inverse.

Yeah like what I said, do what's best for you. I'm just encouraging people to give it a try if they haven't.

I'm still very curious as to why some people seem to prefer it mapped that way. That Dropbox thing is a good idea, by the way. I don't know that I want to be accessing Dropbox on dozens, or hundreds, of computers though either.

Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

I did, didn't care for it. I could 100% get used to it, but it wasn't worth the hassle. This is probably due to me being primarily a mac user, and even on linux I map ctrl to cmd on apple keyboards, so things mostly work as they do on OS X, so my bottom row is ctrl, alt, ctrl, space, ctrl, alt fn, ctrl. Kinda wacky and effectively WKL but it works really well for me, far better than capslock to ctrl.

Hot take and likely unpopular opinion: cmd is the best modifier key, it's infinitely more comfortable than ctrl. It's also amazingly good for behaving the same way as usual when using a terminal, no need to use shift to copy and past, cmd-c and cmd-v work normally, ctrl-c works normally, bliss.

I'm typing from a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, which I have modified the controller on to function like a standard PC controller (Since Matias doesn't make keyboards with good switches with the PC mapping anymore). I am the exact opposite. The proprietary Mac hotkey differences irritate me. I imagine most of that is muscle memory, but I do find using the traditional alt (command with Apple keyboards) at all while on the home row somewhat awkward myself. Almost all I use the alt key for is ctrl+alt+delete, which really isn't done from the home row anyway.

Ergonomically, what is it that you like about it? Do you curl your thumb to press it?
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:31:46 by Maledicted »

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5013 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:38:55 »
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5014 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:44:48 »
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

I figured it may have something to do with this. My pinkies are so long that I do not need to do anything at all with my palm in order to reach ctrl. Ironically, I don't use left shift at all though outside of gaming, which may contribute to my dislike for using the key where caps lock is traditionally mapped as well.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5015 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:48:49 »
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

I figured it may have something to do with this. My pinkies are so long that I do not need to do anything at all with my palm in order to reach ctrl. Ironically, I don't use left shift at all though outside of gaming, which may contribute to my dislike for using the key where caps lock is traditionally mapped as well.


I don't know if it's about the length of your pinkies. Do you just curl them all the way back to the palm?

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5016 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:53:39 »
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

I figured it may have something to do with this. My pinkies are so long that I do not need to do anything at all with my palm in order to reach ctrl. Ironically, I don't use left shift at all though outside of gaming, which may contribute to my dislike for using the key where caps lock is traditionally mapped as well.


I don't know if it's about the length of your pinkies. Do you just curl them all the way back to the palm?

My fingers are so long in general that my palms do not get very close at all to the first row of keys when resting comfortably on the home row. I press the ctrl key with the pad of my pinky, no flexible gymnastics required.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5017 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:58:16 »
Very interest!I would love to see a picture if you're will to share... :))

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5018 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 15:38:27 »
I'm typing from a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, which I have modified the controller on to function like a standard PC controller (Since Matias doesn't make keyboards with good switches with the PC mapping anymore). I am the exact opposite. The proprietary Mac hotkey differences irritate me. I imagine most of that is muscle memory, but I do find using the traditional alt (command with Apple keyboards) at all while on the home row somewhat awkward myself. Almost all I use the alt key for is ctrl+alt+delete, which really isn't done from the home row anyway.

Ergonomically, what is it that you like about it? Do you curl your thumb to press it?

to hit control with my thumb I need to contort to the point of being a bit uncomfortable, for cmd I just pivot my thumb a bit, no curling required.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5019 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 17:09:30 »
I'm typing from a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, which I have modified the controller on to function like a standard PC controller (Since Matias doesn't make keyboards with good switches with the PC mapping anymore). I am the exact opposite. The proprietary Mac hotkey differences irritate me. I imagine most of that is muscle memory, but I do find using the traditional alt (command with Apple keyboards) at all while on the home row somewhat awkward myself. Almost all I use the alt key for is ctrl+alt+delete, which really isn't done from the home row anyway.

Ergonomically, what is it that you like about it? Do you curl your thumb to press it?

to hit control with my thumb I need to contort to the point of being a bit uncomfortable, for cmd I just pivot my thumb a bit, no curling required.

You press ctrl with your thumb? All I press with my thumb from the home row is the space bar. If I were trying to press ctrl with my thumb, I imagine even I would rather it be command instead.

Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5020 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 00:00:13 »
Very interest!I would love to see a picture if you're will to share... :))


My fingers are so long in general that my palms do not get very close at all to the first row of keys when resting comfortably on the home row. I press the ctrl key with the pad of my pinky, no flexible gymnastics required.

Photo of Maledicted


Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5021 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 00:17:09 »
I knew it...

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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5022 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 11:40:07 »
Very interest!I would love to see a picture if you're will to share... :))


My fingers are so long in general that my palms do not get very close at all to the first row of keys when resting comfortably on the home row. I press the ctrl key with the pad of my pinky, no flexible gymnastics required.

Photo of Maledicted

Show Image


I knew it...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk



I'm not quite that tall, and certainly don't dress half as well.

246228-0

There's the picture you requested. I do sometimes adjust the resting position of my palms based on the keys being pressed, but I stay on the home row unless I'm doing a weird hotkey like ctrl+alt+delete or am going for the arrow keys, of course.

Yeah, I tried to dye those ABS caps with iDye Poly. Most of the modifiers were supposed to be "crimson" and the alphanumerics, etc, were supposed to be black. They're more of a magenta and dark purple now, sort of like when a blue pen explodes ... and the blue pen ink is already wearing off.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5023 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 11:49:12 »
Wow these are indeed very impressively long fingers. Thanks for posting!

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Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5024 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 20:35:46 »
I'm not quite that tall, and certainly don't dress half as well.

(Attachment Link)

There's the picture you requested. I do sometimes adjust the resting position of my palms based on the keys being pressed, but I stay on the home row unless I'm doing a weird hotkey like ctrl+alt+delete or am going for the arrow keys, of course.

Yeah, I tried to dye those ABS caps with iDye Poly. Most of the modifiers were supposed to be "crimson" and the alphanumerics, etc, were supposed to be black. They're more of a magenta and dark purple now, sort of like when a blue pen explodes ... and the blue pen ink is already wearing off.

Are you double jointed in the pinky? I am completely unable to bend my finger that way. To reach the Control key with my other fingers on the home row, my wrist will kink in sharply towards the centre of the keyboard, which is why I've had to do the Control/CapsLock key swap.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5025 on: Mon, 06 July 2020, 09:45:50 »
I'm not quite that tall, and certainly don't dress half as well.

(Attachment Link)

There's the picture you requested. I do sometimes adjust the resting position of my palms based on the keys being pressed, but I stay on the home row unless I'm doing a weird hotkey like ctrl+alt+delete or am going for the arrow keys, of course.

Yeah, I tried to dye those ABS caps with iDye Poly. Most of the modifiers were supposed to be "crimson" and the alphanumerics, etc, were supposed to be black. They're more of a magenta and dark purple now, sort of like when a blue pen explodes ... and the blue pen ink is already wearing off.

Are you double jointed in the pinky? I am completely unable to bend my finger that way. To reach the Control key with my other fingers on the home row, my wrist will kink in sharply towards the centre of the keyboard, which is why I've had to do the Control/CapsLock key swap.

I do think that all of my fingers are double-jointed. I didn't even think about that. I've always wondered why so many people cared about the placement of control and here I'm probably just some double-jointed, long-fingered freak of nature. Maybe whoever placed ctrl where it is, and cemented its importance in modern operating systems, was similarly strange?
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 July 2020, 15:01:36 by Maledicted »

Offline WholesomeDucky

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5026 on: Mon, 06 July 2020, 14:31:57 »
I once took a Razer BlackwidowX TE (Their floating key, tenkeyless ANSI board) and desoldered, then resoldered, all 522 solder joints so I could put Gateron Blacks in it while retaining the in-switch RGB LEDs. Then I threw some blank DSA caps on it. I was inexperienced then, and didn't have a nice solder-sucker. It took me AGES, at least a couple weekends' worth of work when I found the time to work on it.

And it was absolutely worth it. I gamed on that board for over a year.

I have more refined tastes now, but I don't regret "making" that board, and I still have it. The caps are pretty s*** though, I will probably throw a taihao set on there today just to make it look a small bit more presentable on the shelf.
7 years of spending money on typing

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Inbox always open, for any reason.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5027 on: Mon, 06 July 2020, 15:35:32 »
I once took a Razer BlackwidowX TE (Their floating key, tenkeyless ANSI board) and desoldered, then resoldered, all 522 solder joints so I could put Gateron Blacks in it while retaining the in-switch RGB LEDs. Then I threw some blank DSA caps on it. I was inexperienced then, and didn't have a nice solder-sucker. It took me AGES, at least a couple weekends' worth of work when I found the time to work on it.

And it was absolutely worth it. I gamed on that board for over a year.

I have more refined tastes now, but I don't regret "making" that board, and I still have it. The caps are pretty s*** though, I will probably throw a taihao set on there today just to make it look a small bit more presentable on the shelf.

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

Offline WholesomeDucky

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5028 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 06:54:48 »

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.
7 years of spending money on typing

"Name checks out" -Kustoms, 2020

Discord:WholesomeDucky#9999
Inbox always open, for any reason.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5029 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 07:25:39 »

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).


Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5030 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:15:04 »

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

Offline WholesomeDucky

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5031 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:22:13 »

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

Yeah the greetechs were pretty horrid. A lot of people also hate the shoddy case quality and the edgy "gamer" design. I know over the years those two things have become kind of annoying to me.

For most it's the little things....rattling stabs, the sound, fixed cable, etc. Their "floating key" boards are extremely loud, even on linears, and trying to fix the stabs is an adventure by itself.
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5032 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:31:31 »

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

Yeah the greetechs were pretty horrid. A lot of people also hate the shoddy case quality and the edgy "gamer" design. I know over the years those two things have become kind of annoying to me.

For most it's the little things....rattling stabs, the sound, fixed cable, etc. Their "floating key" boards are extremely loud, even on linears, and trying to fix the stabs is an adventure by itself.

I prefer clickies, so the more rattly the stabilizers, the better. I think I actually prefer a fixed cable to micro USB or mini USB, unless they've got stress relief and/or a cable gutter, since those connectors majorly suck. Removable yet durable is always nice though, when that rarely happens.

I don't personally care about the "gamer" aesthetic one way or another. I don't generally care a whole lot about the case either (though it won't be a favorite of mine if it isn't wood, metal, polycarbonate, and/or relatively thick). A nice thick plate, usually steel, is what matters most to me. Switches can be changed, caps can be changed (if I bother), cable attachment, etc, can be changed ... and it usually is if I care about the board.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5033 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 20:11:44 »
Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

I tried a store demo board back when Razer was using switches from Kailh, it was a lot worse than Cherry. Somehow they'd managed to populate the board with very inconsistent switches, some of them were more or less audible, some required slightly different forces to actuate, it was a total mess.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5034 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 21:28:32 »
Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

I tried a store demo board back when Razer was using switches from Kailh, it was a lot worse than Cherry. Somehow they'd managed to populate the board with very inconsistent switches, some of them were more or less audible, some required slightly different forces to actuate, it was a total mess.

I actually just noticed that my switch tester has two Razer green switches produced by Kailh. They both feel a bit different from each other, to be sure ... and so do the Cherry MX blues on the same tester. They seem to be to be roughly the same in unpleasant plastic rattle, etc. My sample size is small though. I already hated Razer by the time I had even heard they were making mechanicals, so I never did bother trying one of their boards.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5035 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 01:47:27 »
I actually just noticed that my switch tester has two Razer green switches produced by Kailh. They both feel a bit different from each other, to be sure ... and so do the Cherry MX blues on the same tester. They seem to be to be roughly the same in unpleasant plastic rattle, etc. My sample size is small though. I already hated Razer by the time I had even heard they were making mechanicals, so I never did bother trying one of their boards.

I wonder if this is an inherent weakness of the MX design which relies on a metal leaf within the housing. It's generally not an issue I've noticed on MX boards though, it was only really on that Razer where it was so bad I was wondering if it was broken and that the QC process wasn't very good.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5036 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 11:01:45 »
I actually just noticed that my switch tester has two Razer green switches produced by Kailh. They both feel a bit different from each other, to be sure ... and so do the Cherry MX blues on the same tester. They seem to be to be roughly the same in unpleasant plastic rattle, etc. My sample size is small though. I already hated Razer by the time I had even heard they were making mechanicals, so I never did bother trying one of their boards.

I wonder if this is an inherent weakness of the MX design which relies on a metal leaf within the housing. It's generally not an issue I've noticed on MX boards though, it was only really on that Razer where it was so bad I was wondering if it was broken and that the QC process wasn't very good.

I think so, for the most part. Gaterons and Outemus always seemed to me to be the best of the bunch of the MX extended family that I have tried, though even the Gaterons aren't perfect in that regard, and the Outemus are definitely a slight step down from there. The only somewhat common MX clones I have found to feel and sound noticeably worse than the real MX blues were the cheap Zorro/Ajazz switches, which seem to most commonly sound and feel like you've just dropped a glass marble onto concrete and that it has bounced a few times.

For me, even after typing on an Outemu blue board for just a few minutes, I already start missing Alps, capacitive buckling spring, Matias, and box thick clicks. I think that at this point, even being a clicky guy, I may prefer some of the nicer tactiles, like Topre, or some of the nicer linears, like Gateron yellow, to MX blue. I know I can certainly type with alternatives such as those for extended periods without so abruptly asking myself why.

Sadly, I can't say that that's because I particularly like those switches so much as it is because I now particularly dislike MX blues, and it seems like they're a weak link even within the original MX family (browns aside).

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5037 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 17:56:14 »
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5038 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 18:18:29 »
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5039 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:08:31 »
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.


DCS keycaps profile

Besides sound it's harder bottom out

Offline hpetrovski

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5040 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:10:43 »
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg DCS is a cherry-ish profile usually manufactured by Signature Plastics nowadays. If you've seen Wyse terminal boards that looked like cherry profile, they were probably DCS. It's pretty similar honestly, it just has a more pronounced sculpt.

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5041 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:17:26 »
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg DCS is a cherry-ish profile usually manufactured by Signature Plastics nowadays. If you've seen Wyse terminal boards that looked like cherry profile, they were probably DCS. It's pretty similar honestly, it just has a more pronounced sculpt.

Yes, the more pronounced sculp is the thing. Cherry too flat.
Also NMB Hi-Tek keycaps, HHKB, and old BTC boards have similar type.

Offline ideus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5042 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 21:37:07 »
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg DCS is a cherry-ish profile usually manufactured by Signature Plastics nowadays. If you've seen Wyse terminal boards that looked like cherry profile, they were probably DCS. It's pretty similar honestly, it just has a more pronounced sculpt.

Yes, the more pronounced sculp is the thing. Cherry too flat.
Also NMB Hi-Tek keycaps, HHKB, and old BTC boards have similar type.




DCS's like poor man's Cherry.

Offline adsimilisjesu

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5043 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:14:19 »
a good tactile is great for learning how to properly touch type and earnestly bring the feeling of a clicky and the quietness of a linear together well.

(most tactiles are garbage and just feel like dirty linears)

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5044 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:48:46 »
DCS's like poor man's Cherry.

If only, it's usually as expensive if not more so!

It's certainly thinner, but I like the profile. The spacebar seems a bit sharp at first, but it's actually really nice to type on once you're used to it. I've never used a GMK set but I really like DCS  yuri on my blue alps TKL, it's rapidly becoming my favourite board.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2020, 03:51:07 by mode »

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5045 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 06:49:58 »
DCS's like poor man's Cherry.

If only, it's usually as expensive if not more so!

It's certainly thinner, but I like the profile. The spacebar seems a bit sharp at first, but it's actually really nice to type on once you're used to it. I've never used a GMK set but I really like DCS  yuri on my blue alps TKL, it's rapidly becoming my favourite board.

I've never used a GMK too, but I have OG doubleshots and OG Russian Cyrillic DyeSubs, and I more love DCS (old))
I agree that cherry looks stylish, OG & GMK have more quality and expensive looks, in the meantime DCS looks cheaper and hard to distinguish from OEM.
But deeper cylinders make them pretty comfortable, especially in games.
And in theory, no one bothers to do cherry mount caps with quality of Space Invaders Dye Subs.