Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 629326 times)

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Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4950 on: Sat, 13 June 2020, 21:40:45 »
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I find designs like the second board additionally confusing because they deliberately include a numpad, but cut down on all the keys that you'd use in conjunction with a dedicated numpad- the arithmetic operators. I asked about this in a thread on the Clarabelle, and the Enter key is achieved by hitting "." twice, but I'm not sure how +-*/ are accessed, and in any case, if you're a heavy numpad user, you'd probably want to access these keys without resorting to function layers.

I guess there must be fairly common cases for dependence on a numpad without the associated operator buttons.

I agree. Here's an alternate layout I came up with. While it may be more functional, I don't think it looks as good. It's not as balanced. Looks pretty jenky actually. So I guess in trying to improve it, it kind of loses the spirit of what these compact boards are trying to achieve.


(Attachment Link)




Most of the time when looking at these boards, my brain goes cross eyed trying to figure out how I would hit things like tab, num lock, let alone common shortcuts like alt+tab, alt+F4. It looks cool but it's just a traffic jam of unusability. If I designate the numpad as my number row I can access my symbols but then sacrifice my nav cluster. If I do the opposite, I get home, end pgup and pgdn which I use a lot but then I lose my symbols.  Ugh, my brain hurts.

At the end of the day, this is just me griping. These really are fantastic looking keyboards and the designers are clearly talented. If you can figure out how to use it I say power to you and that makes you more clever than me. Maybe one day I'll get one of these and lock myself in a dark room for a month so that I'm forced to learn how to use it. After all, I just want to be one of the cool kids  :D

I think this looks well thought out and well balanced, though obviously you'd have to retrain your left hand for numpad. It's also obviously not as cut down as the others.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105187.0;topicseen

Online ddrfraser1

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4951 on: Sat, 13 June 2020, 21:47:11 »
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I find designs like the second board additionally confusing because they deliberately include a numpad, but cut down on all the keys that you'd use in conjunction with a dedicated numpad- the arithmetic operators. I asked about this in a thread on the Clarabelle, and the Enter key is achieved by hitting "." twice, but I'm not sure how +-*/ are accessed, and in any case, if you're a heavy numpad user, you'd probably want to access these keys without resorting to function layers.

I guess there must be fairly common cases for dependence on a numpad without the associated operator buttons.

I agree. Here's an alternate layout I came up with. While it may be more functional, I don't think it looks as good. It's not as balanced. Looks pretty jenky actually. So I guess in trying to improve it, it kind of loses the spirit of what these compact boards are trying to achieve.


(Attachment Link)




Most of the time when looking at these boards, my brain goes cross eyed trying to figure out how I would hit things like tab, num lock, let alone common shortcuts like alt+tab, alt+F4. It looks cool but it's just a traffic jam of unusability. If I designate the numpad as my number row I can access my symbols but then sacrifice my nav cluster. If I do the opposite, I get home, end pgup and pgdn which I use a lot but then I lose my symbols.  Ugh, my brain hurts.

At the end of the day, this is just me griping. These really are fantastic looking keyboards and the designers are clearly talented. If you can figure out how to use it I say power to you and that makes you more clever than me. Maybe one day I'll get one of these and lock myself in a dark room for a month so that I'm forced to learn how to use it. After all, I just want to be one of the cool kids  :D

I think this looks well thought out and well balanced, though obviously you'd have to retrain your left hand for numpad. It's also obviously not as cut down as the others.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105187.0;topicseen

Yeah, I’m not a fan of south paw

Offline Avi_

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4952 on: Sun, 14 June 2020, 06:50:32 »
My unpopular opinions:
1.   IBM Model M is not that good. It’s too big, too stiff, too scratchy. The only good thing about it is the perfect synchronization between tactile feedback, audio feedback and actuation.
2.   Cherry MX switches are fine. Most boutique switches have only novelty value. Standard Cherry MX line of switches covers almost all niches, except for the clicky switches.
3.   Cherry MX Browns are actually not bad. Like many of us, when I started with this hobby, I purchased a keyboard on “universal” MX Browns. Then as my experience grew, I started to read that Browns are “scratchy” or “not tactile enough”, and I started to despise them. But eventually I understood that this is the switch that it’s very easy to type on. It’s not especially pleasant to touch an individual Brown switch. It does not produce good sound either. But when you type, the tactile event is just right to help with the flow without asking for extra attention. Some switches just ask “Feel how tactile I am, and how smooth! Enjoy me!”. Browns do their job without getting in the way.
4.   Cherry MX Blacks are actually not bad. Some describe them as too stiff. I normally prefer lighter switches, and find BS or MX Clears and even MX Blues too stiff. But Blacks for some reason feel good. I like to type energetically on them, to bottom out each key.
5.   Windows key is essential, Menu key is actually useful.

Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4953 on: Sun, 14 June 2020, 21:54:41 »
My unpopular opinions:
1.   IBM Model M is not that good. It’s too big, too stiff, too scratchy. The only good thing about it is the perfect synchronization between tactile feedback, audio feedback and actuation.
2.   Cherry MX switches are fine. Most boutique switches have only novelty value. Standard Cherry MX line of switches covers almost all niches, except for the clicky switches.
3.   Cherry MX Browns are actually not bad. Like many of us, when I started with this hobby, I purchased a keyboard on “universal” MX Browns. Then as my experience grew, I started to read that Browns are “scratchy” or “not tactile enough”, and I started to despise them. But eventually I understood that this is the switch that it’s very easy to type on. It’s not especially pleasant to touch an individual Brown switch. It does not produce good sound either. But when you type, the tactile event is just right to help with the flow without asking for extra attention. Some switches just ask “Feel how tactile I am, and how smooth! Enjoy me!”. Browns do their job without getting in the way.
4.   Cherry MX Blacks are actually not bad. Some describe them as too stiff. I normally prefer lighter switches, and find BS or MX Clears and even MX Blues too stiff. But Blacks for some reason feel good. I like to type energetically on them, to bottom out each key.
5.   Windows key is essential, Menu key is actually useful.

Other than the first one, this is a completely correct post.

What's crazy is that you're actually just saying the conventional non keyboard enthusiast opinions. MX blacks are a standard in many situations, like POS terminals, and they work great for those. Every keyboard for the past 20 years has a Windows and context menu key. Browns are popular for a reason, and you know what? I whipped out a keyboard with them recently and I actually like them. Cherry MX are considered the gold standard in the industry for a reason.

So the crazy part is that if you say your unpopular opinions to a normal tier nerd who maybe has a mechanical keyboard but doesn't obsess, he'd go "yeah duh." If you say it on reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards, they'll form a mob and hunt you down.

Offline GlennL42

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4954 on: Sun, 14 June 2020, 23:05:13 »
While on the note of Model M and MBuS switches, am I the only one that thinks that the Achilles heel of MBuS is simply having a membrane layer? Yes I know having a membrane isn't inherently indicative of switch feel but from my experience with them the sound and feel of Model M's flipper 'slapping' is just not very satisfying, hence my opinion on them lacking 'substance' in their feedback compare to CBuS and various other clickies, which I think have something to do with membrane layer dampening the impact of the flippers; plus the comparatively soft/dampened bottom out and shorter travel maybe due to the membrane layer as well but I'm much less certain about this.
« Last Edit: Sun, 14 June 2020, 23:08:33 by GlennL42 »

Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4955 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 00:57:44 »
The flippers are smaller as well. I would expect that making a Model F with a membrane layer wouldn't hurt it too much.

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4956 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 01:35:35 »
So the crazy part is that if you say your unpopular opinions to a normal tier nerd who maybe has a mechanical keyboard but doesn't obsess, he'd go "yeah duh." If you say it on reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards, they'll form a mob and hunt you down.

There's no contradiction there though, in the context of enthusiasts, MX brown is utterly unremarkable. It's like going to a coffee forum and wading into every thread about how you like mcdonalds coffee the best.

It's a bland switch if you expect to love and appreciate what you type on. I used an MX brown board for about a decade and it never once ruined my day. I never paused to think "oh my I love this thing" though either.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 June 2020, 04:46:35 by mode »

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4957 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 03:13:44 »
So the crazy part is that if you say your unpopular opinions to a normal tier nerd who maybe has a mechanical keyboard but doesn't obsess, he'd go "yeah duh." If you say it on reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards, they'll form a mob and hunt you down.

There's no contradiction there though, in the context of enthusiasts, MX brown is utterly unremarkable. It's like going to a coffee forum and wading into every thread about how you like mcdolands coffee the best.

It's a bland switch if you expect to love and appreciate what you type on. I used an MX brown board for about a decade and it never once ruined my day. I never paused to think "oh my I love this thing" though either.

I've come across people posting in-depth on coffee and making coffee, and they are way more extreme than keyboard people.

Offline frydaja

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4958 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 12:48:52 »
On the note of Cherry MX Browns being not that bad..

I don't like Gateron switches.
I find Cherry Browns crisper and with a more pronounced tactile bump.
Gateron Browns feel less tactile and in comparison to Kailh switches, they feel much cheaper, on par with Outemus.
I've tried two keyboards with Gateron switches, one some HP Pavilion or something with Gateron Reds (which I tried in a store) and an Anne Pro 2 with Gateron Browns (which I used for a week).
Reds feel really smooth, almost frictionless, but they're mushy and have a unpleasant sound. Browns were a bit less mushy, but the sound was still unpleasant and in comparison with the same board with Kailh Box Browns (which is now my daily driver) the Gaterons felt much worse. Not to mention the right bracket key was squeaking on the one with Gaterons.

The only advantage Gaterons had over Kailhs was the better RGB.
Anne Pro 2 w/ Kailh Box Browns | CM Storm Quickfire TK Stealth w/ MX Browns | Unknown Chinese keyboard w/ Outemu Reds | Compaq-branded NMB RT101 | Gigabyte Force K81 w/Kailh Reds

Offline chyros

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4959 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 16:31:24 »
Cherry MX, Gateron, Outemu, Kailh, Greetech etc. are basically all the same.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Online ddrfraser1

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4960 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 16:43:46 »
Otemu housings & gateron housings < Cherry housings

Offline frydaja

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4961 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 18:24:13 »
Cherry MX, Gateron, Outemu, Kailh, Greetech etc. are basically all the same.

Am I allowed to disagree? I mean, the design is the same, but the execution is different.
Anne Pro 2 w/ Kailh Box Browns | CM Storm Quickfire TK Stealth w/ MX Browns | Unknown Chinese keyboard w/ Outemu Reds | Compaq-branded NMB RT101 | Gigabyte Force K81 w/Kailh Reds

Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4962 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 18:58:11 »
I mean barely. I can tell the difference, and I prefer Outemu Blues and Cherry Browns, but they basically use the same thing to create the tactile event and the click event, outside of the Box switches, and the occasional weird optical ones.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4963 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 23:41:54 »
Cherry MX, Gateron, Outemu, Kailh, Greetech etc. are basically all the same.

I think this is a bit exaggerated but I agree they are not that different. Your videos are the most costly advertisements I have ever watched...  :)) :))

Online ddrfraser1

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4964 on: Wed, 17 June 2020, 10:49:14 »
I don't hate rubber domes.








Do I get to keep my membership?

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4965 on: Wed, 17 June 2020, 10:53:16 »
I don't hate rubber domes.








Do I get to keep my membership?


Well, Topre is rubber domes...

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4966 on: Thu, 18 June 2020, 22:21:55 »
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.


Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4967 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:00:38 »
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

What kind of proper cable routing are you referring to?

Many do come with their own pcbs so I don't think it's fair to say they are just cases.

I wish more of them will support alps.

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4968 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:19:33 »
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

Agree.

I don't like detachable cables either, it I don't transport keyboards, they sit on my desk or in storage, so I'd rather have a secure cable.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4969 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:52:11 »
What kind of proper cable routing are you referring to?

Many do come with their own pcbs so I don't think it's fair to say they are just cases.

I wish more of them will support alps.

Something like this, which seems pretty standard on any semi-decent mass produced board. Loads of strain relief (so it really doesn't matter if the cable is fixed, or uses any variation of USB connection), and you get the cable exiting the board in a way fits your desktop arrangement.



Looking at the photo just reminds me of another thing that these jewellery box cases are lacking- fold out feet for angle adjustment.
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 June 2020, 02:23:12 by jamster »

Offline Jojjelito

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4970 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 05:57:33 »
Desktop jewelry cases, 40%, 60% are fine for web browser use. Serious work in some specialized applications, be it DAW, photo editing, software development in some IDE calls for a full layout. For me and my use case something like a 980, or sometimes TKL is ideal. Good luck with finding a decent 980 or keyboard kit in stock. My daily driver would be Leopold 980 with PBT caps. Not sure it exists in Nordic layout? Have seen it with ABS, but never in stock.

Oh, one more thing: I don’t get the SA profile. The keys are too tall to feel good. If you enjoy the tall key wobblefest more power to you.


Offline Gampela

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4971 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 12:08:58 »
My daily driver would be Leopold 980 with PBT caps. Not sure it exists in Nordic layout? Have seen it with ABS, but never in stock.

The only ISO Leopolds I've seen have been DE layouts, I think. And only older models with pbt dyesubs not those fancy new doubleshot pbt keycaps.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4972 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 14:07:34 »

Something like this, which seems pretty standard on any semi-decent mass produced board. Loads of strain relief (so it really doesn't matter if the cable is fixed, or uses any variation of USB connection), and you get the cable exiting the board in a way fits your desktop arrangement.

Show Image


Looking at the photo just reminds me of another thing that these jewellery box cases are lacking- fold out feet for angle adjustment.

Got you. I am not a big fan of all these cases but I don't necessarily find these issues to be problematic. People can use whatever cable they want and the whole cable cottage industry can probably fulfill whatever demand there is. Most designs also specify the angle.

I guess the bottomline is that it doesn't make sense to compare boutique with mass-produced products. Many of those GBs are like the fashion industry, which serves a role in the whole clothing industry.

Offline Mekanist

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4973 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 15:55:18 »
I like 60% traymounts with arrow keys, fite me.

Offline Avi_

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4974 on: Sat, 20 June 2020, 01:57:31 »
The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

I'd put it this way: the majority of the high end custom boards are just ugly.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4975 on: Sat, 20 June 2020, 02:30:38 »
I'd put it this way: the majority of the high end custom boards are just ugly.

Ugly is totally acceptable- I'd be fine with someone calling a Model M ugly (I have two and will never get rid of them). It's the utterly derivative, carbon copy, zero innovation aspect which is puzzling.

There's definitely some impressive stuff. The elaborately constructed Evolve case, the Mahjong/Canvas full fat southpaw designs, the chunky retro cases willing to take a risk. They're the minority.

I guess the bottomline is that it doesn't make sense to compare boutique with mass-produced products. Many of those GBs are like the fashion industry, which serves a role in the whole clothing industry.

I was thinking along these lines too, but it's not like the haute couture end of fashion, where designers might take inspiration from each other but have to come up with something original to be attention-grabbing. It's more like... fancy collectable sneakers.
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 June 2020, 02:41:03 by jamster »

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4976 on: Sat, 20 June 2020, 11:54:25 »
I was thinking along these lines too, but it's not like the haute couture end of fashion, where designers might take inspiration from each other but have to come up with something original to be attention-grabbing. It's more like... fancy collectable sneakers.

Yeah, from a bystander's point of view, I do wish to see more innovation. The thing is, with very limited supply, a lot of buyers are just looking to buy something similar to a previous GB. It is not just the designers need to be innovative, the buyers need to be willing to throw money at innovative designs too. My hope is that as the community grows and its members become more experienced, the demand naturally adjust beyond different colors and materials, and move toward something more functional.


Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4977 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:04:34 »
So what if some company then just came up with a bunch of black slabs as regular production and then just offered it? Could he make gangbusters money?

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4978 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:26:21 »
I don't think that anyone is going to make gangbusters money if they're using an inherently slow and expensive process like CNC.

Unless they've managed to market their product into a Veblen good, like Keycult. But by then it's not really about keyboards anymore, it's just about selling some idea of perceived status.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Offline funkmon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4979 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:31:23 »
it's just about selling some idea of perceived status.

What, that very thing that we in the unpopular keyboard opinion thread think is going on with these custom 60%s?



HERE'S ONE.

I prefer the XT layout.

Hard to believe, I know, but after using a Model F AT for a few days and going back to the XT, I've noticed that my fingers just go right where they're supposed to, and it all fits and makes sense. The backspace is better, and the pipe key is where it should be; bottom left.

And another thing, the XT is much better built, and even though the sound is not great and I prefer the deeper sound of the Model M, the AT just doesn't do it. That's got little to do with the layout, but there you go.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 June 2020, 02:20:19 by funkmon »

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4980 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 03:37:48 »
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

Cable gutters are nice, and certainly beat out just having extremely fragile USB sockets jutting out of the back of a board, but I would rather I just make my cables, use aviators for connection directly to the board instead of crappy micro USB or type c, and just know that the cable will last.

it's just about selling some idea of perceived status.

What, that very thing that we in the unpopular keyboard opinion thread think is going on with these custom 60%s?



HERE'S ONE.

I prefer the XT layout.

Hard to believe, I know, but after using a Model F AT for a few days and going back to the XT, I've noticed that my fingers just go right where they're supposed to, and it all fits and makes sense. The backspace is better, and the pipe key is where it should be; bottom left.

And another thing, the XT is much better built, and even though the sound is not great and I prefer the deeper sound of the Model M, the AT just doesn't do it. That's got little to do with the layout, but there you go.

You prefer the XT layout to the AT layout, or even to more modern ones? I couldn't do it. I'm not a fan of all of those stepped caps, much less the layout even if they were not stepped. I do find the XT's ping very entertaining though.

Offline AJM

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4981 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 08:05:04 »
...
HERE'S ONE.

I prefer the XT layout.

Hard to believe, I know, but after using a Model F AT for a few days and going back to the XT, I've noticed that my fingers just go right where they're supposed to, and it all fits and makes sense. The backspace is better, and the pipe key is where it should be; bottom left.

And another thing, the XT is much better built, and even though the sound is not great and I prefer the deeper sound of the Model M, the AT just doesn't do it. That's got little to do with the layout, but there you go.

That means, there are already two of us.  :thumb: 

Offline drfilco

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4982 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 20:42:00 »
Filco and Das are stupidly overpriced.

You're not wrong... well anyway here's mine:

  • I like OEM profile, easily in my top 3, and I wish it got more compat love
  • I like Filcos, even though they're kitschy, overpriced, and needlessly without basic modern features
  • I'd like to see someone make a truly premium shine-through keycap set

Honorable mention: I wish GMK Lux was gold like the metal, not like the pollen... or aged butter... or synthetic cheese...

Ones I've seen in here that I totally agree with:

- Like a bad Tinder match, SA might be less appealing in person - and things only get more awkward once you touch them.

- I want to like Signature Plastics because TEAM 'MURICA (and they genuinely have good customer service) but... yeah. Iffy colors, iffy textures, toy-like aesthetic, and borderline unacceptable packaging considering the price.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4983 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 22:11:05 »
Filco and Das are stupidly overpriced.

You're not wrong... well anyway here's mine:

  • I like OEM profile, easily in my top 3, and I wish it got more compat love
  • I like Filcos, even though they're kitschy, overpriced, and needlessly without basic modern features
  • I'd like to see someone make a truly premium shine-through keycap set

Honorable mention: I wish GMK Lux was gold like the metal, not like the pollen... or aged butter... or synthetic cheese...

Ones I've seen in here that I totally agree with:

- Like a bad Tinder match, SA might be less appealing in person - and things only get more awkward once you touch them.

- I want to like Signature Plastics because TEAM 'MURICA (and they genuinely have good customer service) but... yeah. Iffy colors, iffy textures, toy-like aesthetic, and borderline unacceptable packaging considering the price.

I don't know that any of that is necessarily unpopular. I think my Das Pro 4 is pretty well-built though, even at the price. I could see the plastic ones being overpriced.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the problem with metallic caps is it is usually either going to have to be made entirely out of metal, or be electroplated in some way.

Offline fpazos

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4984 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 16:15:44 »
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 June 2020, 17:14:43 by fpazos »
 

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4985 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 17:54:17 »
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Rust patinas are a thing on brand new plates? What on earth? LMAO. Do they actually rust them, or is it just some sort of finish to simulate it? If it is real rust, that sounds stupid as hell to me.

Well, you've got one more vote in your favor, regardless of the actual finish. I can't see how that would be appealing.

Offline fpazos

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4986 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 18:21:42 »
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Rust patinas are a thing on brand new plates? What on earth? LMAO. Do they actually rust them, or is it just some sort of finish to simulate it? If it is real rust, that sounds stupid as hell to me.

Well, you've got one more vote in your favor, regardless of the actual finish. I can't see how that would be appealing.
I have only seen it on customized by owners keebs. It is a strange process involving acids among other things that creates rust on a metal. I have a friend of my university that made beautiful sculptures using this process, see used unvaluable pieces of metal and turned it on something unique.
But for me is something that's wrong on an expensive object that you touch every day. Maybe if you are creating a steampunk or similar themed keeb it has a purpose but not on a custom keeb from a groupbuy.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

 

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4987 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 20:06:18 »
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Rust patinas are a thing on brand new plates? What on earth? LMAO. Do they actually rust them, or is it just some sort of finish to simulate it? If it is real rust, that sounds stupid as hell to me.

Well, you've got one more vote in your favor, regardless of the actual finish. I can't see how that would be appealing.
I have only seen it on customized by owners keebs. It is a strange process involving acids among other things that creates rust on a metal. I have a friend of my university that made beautiful sculptures using this process, see used unvaluable pieces of metal and turned it on something unique.
But for me is something that's wrong on an expensive object that you touch every day. Maybe if you are creating a steampunk or similar themed keeb it has a purpose but not on a custom keeb from a groupbuy.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

I have seen plenty of metal sculptures that are left to naturally rust. No idea if they started rusty or not. I don't think there's any place for intentional rust outside of rust bluing firearms (which is a controlled process and actually helps to prevent active red rust) and art. Covering a plate in active rust is stupid because active rust will continue to rust, until the plate is compromised. Whenever I get a vintage board I care anything about I usually want to remove all of the active rust and paint the parts that were rusted with Rust-Oleum just in case I didn't get it all, because it will begin to rust again otherwise. Then there's the fact that iron oxide is probably going to eventually break loose from the rusting plate and start sloshing around in there and possibly getting into your switches.

Offline noorejji

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4988 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 01:51:41 »
I think keycap renders featuring unicorn keyboards are useless. Be it cases that are unreleased, ridiculously rare, or with nonexistent case colors that conveniently perfectly match that particular keyset. It doesn’t help me decide wether that keyset is gonna look good on my keyboard.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4989 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 05:46:10 »
I think keycap renders featuring unicorn keyboards are useless. Be it cases that are unreleased, ridiculously rare, or with nonexistent case colors that conveniently perfectly match that particular keyset. It doesn’t help me decide wether that keyset is gonna look good on my keyboard.

Does it really matter though? Unless it's something extra-odd looking like an Alice-style keyboard, most cases look pretty similar and it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of matching the colour of the case to the key cap colourway.

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4990 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 07:25:23 »
Does it really matter though? Unless it's something extra-odd looking like an Alice-style keyboard, most cases look pretty similar and it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of matching the colour of the case to the key cap colourway.

Lets be real, all alu keyboard cases look pretty much the same.

Offline bsdice

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4991 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 09:27:36 »
Is it just me or do metal cases rob Alps switches of the sexy thock thock thock sound and make them all sound like clik clik clik?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4992 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:38:33 »
Is it just me or do metal cases rob Alps switches of the sexy thock thock thock sound and make them all sound like clik clik clik?

metal cases rob all switches of the thock thock.

Online jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4993 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:45:37 »
Are Alps switches supposed to thock? I've only owned one, a Northgate from presumably the 80s and it was click click click. Way better than something like MX Blue, but definitely metallic clicky.

Thock is what I associate with Topre.

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4994 on: Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:56:35 »
Is it just me or do metal cases rob Alps switches of the sexy thock thock thock sound and make them all sound like clik clik clik?

To some extent, yes, I have two alu alps boards and while I like them they don't sound as good as my plastic vintage apple boards. They don't sound bad though, just not as pleasing.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4995 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 00:22:46 »
Are Alps switches supposed to thock? I've only owned one, a Northgate from presumably the 80s and it was click click click. Way better than something like MX Blue, but definitely metallic clicky.

Thock is what I associate with Topre.

Clicky switches click, linears and tactiles generally don't. What creates the thock, as far as I can tell is the reverberation of bottoming out in a plastic case. Try some Linear Alps, in particular, in a board with a plastic case. It will thock. Maybe not always as deeply as something like a Realforce, but it will. I just tried again with my Z-150, which has a metal plate on the bottom of the casing, and even that thocked. My recently-acquired NeXT keyboard with SKCM black switches thocks, even my Leading Edge DC-2014s thock, it is just hard to hear over the click.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4996 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 11:20:48 »
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4997 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 11:54:50 »
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Not having dedicated arrow keys on any keyboard of any size and meant to be functional at all for something other than typing, without much modification to something previously typed, makes no sense to me.

Offline gnho

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4998 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 14:31:26 »
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Not having dedicated arrow keys on any keyboard of any size and meant to be functional at all for something other than typing, without much modification to something previously typed, makes no sense to me.
I'm sure many people are doing a lot without dedicated arrow keys. I code and published a book this year.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4999 on: Mon, 29 June 2020, 16:16:32 »
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Not having dedicated arrow keys on any keyboard of any size and meant to be functional at all for something other than typing, without much modification to something previously typed, makes no sense to me.
I'm sure many people are doing a lot without dedicated arrow keys. I code and published a book this year.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

With proprietary layers/mapping for the lost hotkeys on a single board (or multiples with the exact same programming) and that's all you use, then yes. I would hate to have to live like that. There are way too many random, weird, old, or all of the above keyboards I would rather be able to just touch type on with as little change in muscle memory as possible, that and I couldn't use just one keyboard forever if I had wanted to.