I'm new to this hobby, so I don't know all the backstory of what has happened when some members of the community started commercial ventures, but I'm a small business owner myself. Whenever one of these discussions come up there's always a budding young socialist who wants to make the two concepts out to be diametrically opposed in some way, or try to shame others into bowing to their beliefs. I believe that communities and markets overlap to a very, very large degree. Communities (like markets) feature transactions. Businesses (like communities) are personal.
How does GH or DT or any other forum community feature 'transactions'? There are benefits to associating with people with similar interests. When someone posts to the 'great finds' sub-forum, or posts a lengthy, photo-journal of their latest strip down of a new (or antique) keyboard, or offers up a review -- they are making a transaction into the community fund of knowledge and information. But it would be a mistake to believe that this is completely altruistic. Sure, there are those rare few who only want to be saints -- but in reality most people who post those sort of community-building posts do it because they want to throw another brick on the wall, maybe to encourage someone else to throw another brick on top of theirs at some point (at which point they collect on their investment). Or... they want to show off their expertise! And there's nothing wrong with that impulse.
Markets are similar. Most transactions are emotional. People can buy anywhere, but they really want to buy where they are most comfortable -- for whatever reason.
Also, markets and communities are generally self-regulating --
if they are allowed to be. Screw people over with a lousy product, or poor service and they will go elsewhere and word will spread. The general axiom in business is that if a customer has a good experience, they tell two other people about it. If they have a bad experience... they tell twenty people. This is evident even here on GH, I'm sure. Likewise, if you're a nasty member of a community who does nothing but take without gratitude, then yeah, you're not going to get much out of the community once people realixe what kind of person you are.
A few observations on some statements made thus far:
I think we do a good job of protecting our own from bad deals, but I think if someone wants something bad enough, there should be no stopping them spending more than you would for something.
Boilermaker: I don't know you, never bought a thing from you -- you're absolutely right.
Buyer beware. Hell, that's what communities are for in the first place. I posted a thread asking people for their advice on getting my first Cherry switch keyboard, listed my requirements, my preferences, and patiently waited. The community responded and they gave me great advice. But I have no inherent right to their advice. It's freely given, and the axiom of
buyer beware still holds. Would I be right to buy a keyboard and then come back and accuse those people of giving me bad advice? No -- it was freely given, with NO WARRANTY.
Boilermaker -- charge as much as you think you can get, because that's how markets work. And I hope you make your hobby into something profitable -- because that's a beautiful thing, to do what you love to do and be able to make living at it. Take that money and roll around in it with some perky-breasted minx in a European thong bikini like a ribald Alan Greenspan, I'll cheer you all the way! The surest way to spot the genius? All the mediocrities are confederated against him (or her).
Now, sth, your response to Boilermaker was, well... let's review.
i mostly agree with that but here's my problem with that way of thinking:
CONSIDERING nearly all of us got into this hobby as a result of some community, and the greater keyboard hobbyist community at large that existed before and without us (comprised of GH, DT, OTD, KBDM, KBT etc),
CONSIDERING those with deep pockets do not comprise the entirety of said community,
CONSIDERING profiteering/auctioneering raises expected prices for products not previously valued at specific amounts,
#1 -- You have no idea why people came to this community. People could have discovered keyboards first, and then discovered GH or DT or some other keyboard enthusiast forum. Some of the forum members could have been laboring for years on their private hobby.
#2 -- What difference does it make if not everyone in this community has the same amount of disposable income?
#3 -- Profiteering? You mean charging an excessive amount? Sounds like you wish you could purchase something, but... didn't have the lettuce. That's okay, someone just wanted the product more than you and was willing to pay more. That's upsetting, but a fact of life. Also, so what if a previous object sold for $20 and now it's selling for $200 -- that's between the seller and the buyer, not you.
The message you're sending sth is very clear: GH (and other communities)
made it all possible for this marketplace to exist in the first place, so participants in that market should owe some sort of fealty to the 'community' (as you define it). And therefore buyers and sellers should ... well, they should do what
you want them to do.
when somebody spends a lot of money to get something, they cause harm to the community that afforded them the knowledge, the place to post WTB/FS threads, and the continued research and reporting of keyboard related information by individuals.
You believe that buyers and sellers didn't make GH happen -- it was the 'community' that made it all possible. Sth, has it ever occurred to you that GH survives as a popular forum partly because it acts as a way for buyers and sellers to meet? That that is in fact one of the primary reasons that some people congregate here? Why buy from an anonymous eBay seller when you can buy from someone you actually know? If the geekhack 'community' rose up in a socialistic revolution against buying and selling and banished it all from the forum.... do you think it wouldn't happen? No, they would go to eBay, or start a new forum not dominated by socialists. Or they would private PM one another, and it would still happen. And you probably still would not have the green to buy what you wanted to buy. So nothing would change, but you could feel good knowing that you were at least an impedance to others with more money. Buying and selling does NOT 'harm the community' -- it helps it. If neither the buyer or seller is upset about the transaction, what's your beef? My guess is you didn't get what you wanted, so now the system is 'broken' as far as you are concerned.
you have to consider yourself part of a greater collective of people who share your interests.
No I don't! I can be a selfish, self-centered jerk with a dozen CC's to sell for $10 a piece and the geekhack community would consider me a hell of a guy! KMACs for $10, Topre RealForces for $20 (they are imported after all) and if I'm happy with the price and the seller is happy, then why are you involved? Altruism is not a requirement for a working market -- all that is needed is to allow prices to be set by the market, not by nosy people without any money, and the absence of fraud. But even fraud makes the market react to prevent it from occurring again.
if, for you, your hobby boils down to "give me what I want, when I want it, for whatever price" it's no longer a hobby but a selfish collection of valuable goods. there is nothing intrinsically right or wrong about selfish behavior, but when it negatively impacts the community by putting products out of reach for reasons other than their existing rarity/demand, you better be able to own up for your behavior and not hide behind a veil of 'capitalism'/'free market'/any other econ 101 BS.
So, in order to be a 'true' collector you can't make a profit from your collection? Sounds like something a burnt-out, failed grunge musician sitting on a street corner might say when looking up at Kurt Cobain on the Jumbotron and saying, "Stinkin' sellout, man!" (takes a toke) Being a failure is so
heroic, isn't it? To know that the pursuit of your hobby has been of
absolutely no financial gain whatsoever -- now that's a sure sign of nobility. A sense of community is not what drives your argument; it's simple envy. The items you want are only out of your reach -- not others. Sales are being made. Collecting keyboards is an expensive hobby -- making it into a business is not a bad thing if it allows people to acquire keyboards they want at a price they are willing to pay. You, sth, want to dictate prices ("you better be able to own up for your behavior") for your own benefit -- that's not a market or a community, that's a dictatorship.
