How are you liking your ErgoDox?

[eviltobz]

But the teensy button can be put on any layer!  I believe the firmware is capable of 20 layers, surely you can find 1 free key out of 1560!

Ahhh ok. That makes things much nicer then. Thanks!

i was thinking about adding in an additional switch for teensying, but after considering the layer options i've set up an admin layer to do a few functions that you don't want to be pressing accidentally, such as the teensy programming key. i've got a number layer that's only accessed whilst held down, which has another holdy-downy layer shift that contains my teensy (and the abilty to switch my base layer between colemak for mac, colemak for windows & qwerty for windows modes). having to hold down a few layer shifts makes it nice and safe from accidents and as mentioned, doesn't really impact your available buttons

[seferphier]

I dont have an ErgoDox (yet) but I do have a TECK.  A lot of people have had concerns about the lack of tenting on the TECK.  I did too until I applied some cello ergonomics.  On the cello and violin the left hand fingers are slanted rather than perpendicular to the strings.  This provides a lot of ergonomic benefits that can transfer to the keyboard.  Most people see the aligned matrix keys and naturally want to line their fingers up with the rows.  While this may have been what the inventors intended it is not necessarily the best way to type.  Slanting your fingers outward allows your wrists to straighten out of ulnar deviation.  A picture is worth a thousand words. 

(Attachment Link)

This lessens the need for tenting because it allows the wrists to relax in the same direction.  If you are using a wrist rest then the wrists no longer lie flat but on the outer wrist bone. 

As always, YMMV.  But it works well for me.

good one. i realized this yesterday when i felt that ergodox wasnt that comfortable to type. i tilted the keyboard like you said and it works like a charm. that picture is very useful. i was thinking on how to determine the tilt, now i know.

[wasabah]

I dont have an ErgoDox (yet) but I do have a TECK.  A lot of people have had concerns about the lack of tenting on the TECK.  I did too until I applied some cello ergonomics.  On the cello and violin the left hand fingers are slanted rather than perpendicular to the strings.  This provides a lot of ergonomic benefits that can transfer to the keyboard.  Most people see the aligned matrix keys and naturally want to line their fingers up with the rows.  While this may have been what the inventors intended it is not necessarily the best way to type.  Slanting your fingers outward allows your wrists to straighten out of ulnar deviation.  A picture is worth a thousand words. 

(Attachment Link)

This lessens the need for tenting because it allows the wrists to relax in the same direction.  If you are using a wrist rest then the wrists no longer lie flat but on the outer wrist bone. 

As always, YMMV.  But it works well for me.

good one. i realized this yesterday when i felt that ergodox wasnt that comfortable to type. i tilted the keyboard like you said and it works like a charm. that picture is very useful. i was thinking on how to determine the tilt, now i know.

Mh, I thought he meant to tilt the fingers, not the keyboard?
Could you send a pic with your keyboard & hand tilt?

[bisl]

Went tilting the wrists as seen in the picture, the fingers move slightly to the outside as you extend them, so I believe the idea would be to rotate the dox hands outward accordingly, so that the bottoms are closer together, and the tops farther apart.

[daerid]

I dont have an ErgoDox (yet) but I do have a TECK.  A lot of people have had concerns about the lack of tenting on the TECK.  I did too until I applied some cello ergonomics.  On the cello and violin the left hand fingers are slanted rather than perpendicular to the strings.  This provides a lot of ergonomic benefits that can transfer to the keyboard.  Most people see the aligned matrix keys and naturally want to line their fingers up with the rows.  While this may have been what the inventors intended it is not necessarily the best way to type.  Slanting your fingers outward allows your wrists to straighten out of ulnar deviation.  A picture is worth a thousand words. 

(Attachment Link)

This lessens the need for tenting because it allows the wrists to relax in the same direction.  If you are using a wrist rest then the wrists no longer lie flat but on the outer wrist bone. 

As always, YMMV.  But it works well for me.

Nice to see a picture demonstrating that. I've been typing with my hands/fingers tilted like that all my life, didn't realize there was a wrong way to do it.

[davkol]

I dont have an ErgoDox (yet) but I do have a TECK.  A lot of people have had concerns about the lack of tenting on the TECK.  I did too until I applied some cello ergonomics.  On the cello and violin the left hand fingers are slanted rather than perpendicular to the strings.  This provides a lot of ergonomic benefits that can transfer to the keyboard.  Most people see the aligned matrix keys and naturally want to line their fingers up with the rows.  While this may have been what the inventors intended it is not necessarily the best way to type.  Slanting your fingers outward allows your wrists to straighten out of ulnar deviation.  A picture is worth a thousand words. 

(Attachment Link)

This lessens the need for tenting because it allows the wrists to relax in the same direction.  If you are using a wrist rest then the wrists no longer lie flat but on the outer wrist bone. 

As always, YMMV.  But it works well for me.

Nice to see a picture demonstrating that. I've been typing with my hands/fingers tilted like that all my life, didn't realize there was a wrong way to do it.

Well... I was about to post the same thing. I can't really imagine why would anyone bend their wrists like in the first picture on a split keyboard. However, I do think tenting the whole keyboard (or rather its halves) is still beneficial, because of angle between forearms and the keyboard.

[daerid]

Well... I was about to post the same thing. I can't really imagine why would anyone bend their wrists like in the first picture on a split keyboard. However, I do think tenting the whole keyboard (or rather its halves) is still beneficial, because of angle between forearms and the keyboard.

I don't even do that on a standard straight keyboard. But then again, I have abnormally long fingers, so that's probably a help.

[Larken]

for those looking to set something up with an adjustable tenting set up, I can vouch for the v3 supports from kinesis, even for the full hand version (just need a hacksaw for one part.) When tenting, my wrists are perfectly straight. Very comfortable to type on.

[Glod]

for me the tenting is a must and my wrists are straight and hands level with my elbow rests. the only pain i have now is my finger tips because i jackhammer my keyboard, a habit i cant seem to shake. i have the kenesis V3 for my other ergodox that i am modding right now and im going to get the kenesis VIP kit to work with my Kurlop ErgoDock. its expensive for a piece of plastic but it already has the feet on it and its adjustable, i think after spending 3 bills on a keyboard, 20 something bucks USD isn't much to add to the cost. requires some modding to make pretty.

[tp4tissue]

I am only up to 100 wpm after 5 hours of use. maybe by the end of the week I'll be back to normal speed.

the main difficulty is that now I have " B and  " Y mapped to places where they're used with different fingers entirely

[SubGothius]

I accomplished tenting with some PCB standoffs I found at Radio Shack that happen to be M3 threaded, same as the screws provided with the ErgoDox:



Some closeups from my initial prototyping before full assembly:




You can't really see it, but I thought it wise to add a washer between the case and standoffs to distribute stress, just in case those long legs might act as levers and possibly crack the acrylic; I might get a few more washers to put topside, under each tent leg's screw cap, for the same reason.

[tp4tissue]

I accomplished tenting with some PCB standoffs I found at Radio Shack that happen to be M3 threaded, same as the screws provided with the ErgoDox:

(Attachment Link)

Some closeups from my initial prototyping before full assembly:

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Thanks for that, i just bought a stand off kit along with 40mm screws this would give me good adjustment in both axis to perfectly fit my hand plane.

http://www.amazon.com/Standoff-Hex-Head-Screw-Pcs/dp/B00CTWD4EQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370822808&sr=8-1&keywords=m3+standoff+kit

[pprjr]

I am interested in a ergodox, but I do not want to assemble one, someone would be willing to sell a assembled to me or tell me where I can find to buy?

[seferphier]

surprisingly, I am still making quite a bit of typo with the ergodox. anyone with the same experience? especially with the numbers, given that 1-6 fit on the left hand

[tp4tissue]

surprisingly, I am still making quite a bit of typo with the ergodox. anyone with the same experience? especially with the numbers, given that 1-6 fit on the left hand

I use the number layer on the ergodox to type numbers. I'm almost 95% accurate with this considering it's almost identical to a normal numberpad

I am now training my left hand for it since this is far more useful.. whereas prior to the ergodox I didn't have the option of using the numpad with my left hand.


Accuracy on alpha keys are at 99%.. even though I had to re-adapt to 4 new finger positions..

[kurplop]

surprisingly, I am still making quite a bit of typo with the ergodox. anyone with the same experience? especially with the numbers, given that 1-6 fit on the left hand

I'm a little surprised by how quickly some have adapted to theirs. Different layouts, vertical columns, thumb clusters, experimenting with different slopes, tilts and separations. All of these things take time to get use to. Do yourself a favor. Remap the backspace to a comfortable location.

[tp4tissue]

surprisingly, I am still making quite a bit of typo with the ergodox. anyone with the same experience? especially with the numbers, given that 1-6 fit on the left hand

I'm a little surprised by how quickly some have adapted to theirs. Different layouts, vertical columns, thumb clusters, experimenting with different slopes, tilts and separations. All of these things take time to get use to. Do yourself a favor. Remap the backspace to a comfortable location.

The hardest part was adapting to the Awesome... I still can't get over just how much there is..

[daerid]

It is pretty damn awesome. Much more relaxing for my shoulders. I just need to adjust to the where I've got the arrow keys and hopefully I'll be able to go full ErgoDox in a couple of days (still got actually work to do).

[daerid]

I'll be honest though, I don't want to stop typing on this thing. I installed Vimium for Chrome just because I don't want to take my hands off the 'Dox while browsing (although Vimium fails hard at Facebook).

[Glod]

so happy its working out for people, i seriously doubt i will be using a non-"ergonomic" keyboard as my daily driver ever again. I am still interested in what Kenesis is planning.

Because i still like building and customizing keyboards--i just finished my first Phantom YAY!--i think im still going to use a standard staggered keyboard for doing games and then the ergonomic keyboard for everything else. i am getting a keyboard tray (the arm type not the shelf type) on my new desk so that i can have 2 keyboards set up weeee keyboards

i think one of the reasons i got used to the keyboard so quickly was because i use a keyboard so intensively each day that i put myself in a position where i had to learn, i removed all other keyboards. Another reason is my layout isn't very creative, i made it to resemble other keyboards so that i wouldn't have to completely retrain. im slowly learning how to use my thumb for backspace


i did however move the numbers back to next to each other, the -= keys are now next to the backspace again. at work i have to type in lots of things that required dashes and underscores and it became annoying trying to learn to do it next to the 6


I am starting to regret choosing the ergo whites on ERGODOX PRIME.. i love clicky switches the best but due to my HEAVY typing style the bottoming out plus the click is driving my wife nuts even when my office door is shut (i work mostly remotely). plus i think when you remove whites from their original assembly they must have some sort of lubrication, the click is no longer soft anymore, the whites are just as loud as blues, just a higher pitch.

thanks to the plate design, i think the next time i have like 5-6 hours free ill do a stem/slider swap and try ergo clears or lubed ergo clears. I already have a lubed red ergodox.

[CommunistWitchDr]

I'll be honest though, I don't want to stop typing on this thing. I installed Vimium for Chrome just because I don't want to take my hands off the 'Dox while browsing (although Vimium fails hard at Facebook).

Vimperator on Firefox absolutely kills Vimium.

One of the main reasons I'm on firefox.



As for edoxes I am so tempted to get a second one with clears as a portable board.

[daerid]

Yah. I know about Vimperator. I don't want to talk about it

[CommunistWitchDr]

Yah. I know about Vimperator. I don't want to talk about it

I will admit it can be huge and confusing, even if you're already proficient in vim.

You can use the browser normally in vimium and not even know it's there until you want to use it.

[Larken]

so happy its working out for people, i seriously doubt i will be using a non-"ergonomic" keyboard as my daily driver ever again. I am still interested in what Kenesis is planning.

Because i still like building and customizing keyboards--i just finished my first Phantom YAY!--i think im still going to use a standard staggered keyboard for doing games and then the ergonomic keyboard for everything else. i am getting a keyboard tray (the arm type not the shelf type) on my new desk so that i can have 2 keyboards set up weeee keyboards

i think one of the reasons i got used to the keyboard so quickly was because i use a keyboard so intensively each day that i put myself in a position where i had to learn, i removed all other keyboards. Another reason is my layout isn't very creative, i made it to resemble other keyboards so that i wouldn't have to completely retrain. im slowly learning how to use my thumb for backspace

Show Image

i did however move the numbers back to next to each other, the -= keys are now next to the backspace again. at work i have to type in lots of things that required dashes and underscores and it became annoying trying to learn to do it next to the 6


I am starting to regret choosing the ergo whites on ERGODOX PRIME.. i love clicky switches the best but due to my HEAVY typing style the bottoming out plus the click is driving my wife nuts even when my office door is shut (i work mostly remotely). plus i think when you remove whites from their original assembly they must have some sort of lubrication, the click is no longer soft anymore, the whites are just as loud as blues, just a higher pitch.

thanks to the plate design, i think the next time i have like 5-6 hours free ill do a stem/slider swap and try ergo clears or lubed ergo clears. I already have a lubed red ergodox.

Are the media keys on L1 actually working, or are those placeholders to show what it's supposed to do?

[noisyturtle]

[tp4tissue]

(Attachment Link)

well, y do you not have one?

[Glod]

Are the media keys on L1 actually working, or are those placeholders to show what it's supposed to do?

I wish they worked by they no work. I really want the volume control...

[Larken]

Are the media keys on L1 actually working, or are those placeholders to show what it's supposed to do?

I wish they worked by they no work. I really want the volume control...

ah damn. I was hoping you'd tell me otherwise, as I have a similar layout with regards to volume control. doing it with autohotkey at the moment, but that doesn't work when I'm not using my own computer. would be cool if I could just plug in the ergodox at work and mute the volume as an when I like.

[daerid]

I think I'm going to take a look at the firmware and see if we can't get those pesky VK codes showing up in Windows

[tp4tissue]

I think I'm going to take a look at the firmware and see if we can't get those pesky VK codes showing up in Windows

Awesome thanks.

[daerid]

Yah. I know about Vimperator. I don't want to talk about it

I will admit it can be huge and confusing, even if you're already proficient in vim.

You can use the browser normally in vimium and not even know it's there until you want to use it.

You misunderstand me. I absolutely love Vimperator. I don't want to talk about it because I'm so bummed that Vimium  sucks in comparison. It's not enough to get me to switch back to Firefox, but it's close.

[Calyx]

Where can I get a blank one of these to make my own layout?

Show Image

Thanks

[daerid]

Try here

[fisofo]

A question for you all: I'm going to hop in and buy the ErgoDox before this latest GB expires (4 days!), but I was wondering what you all thought of the option to get Blank PBT DSA key caps included with it for $37? I'm a bit leery of this as I've never done blanks before, although I am a touch-typist and don't need to look at my keyboard.

I am hoping to learn a new layout with the ErgoDox, so blanks may force me to learn, but maybe that's too much at once (haven't decided on layout yet)? I'm also not really sure what the best option would be to get labelled key caps for this thing even if I wanted to though.

Any thoughts? Thank you!

[Glod]

you really NEED to grab massdrop's keycaps even if you are going to use your own. It is almost impossible otherwise to get the right profile 2x, 1.5x, and 1x caps for the pinky areas and thumb cluster. You can always mix in other keycaps into the massdrop ones if you absolutely need legends instead of blank.

You have a choice of DSA and DCS, DSA is an offered add on and is cheap and if you want DCS you have to purchase it in the separate DCS group buy that closes in 2 days instead of an add on like the DSA. DSA looks better but has a bit of disadvantage if you have never used the keyboard before because everything feels the same. the DCS is a bit more in cost because less people jumped on them.

its a little hypocritical of me because i have legends on my keycaps on my ergodox, but that's mostly for aesthetics only.
Easing yourself into learning how to do blanks is better for you, looking at the keys while typing can somewhat cancel out some of the advantages of the keyboard. You can always put on some cheap OEM keycaps with labels as training wheels until you learn the keyboard and then swap with the blanks after you are comfortable.

[fisofo]

Sound advice, thanks Glod!

It sounds like DCS might be better for the feel then? I'm planning to use this primarily for typing at work (maybe very occasional gaming), so I'd planned to go with the Cherry Blue switches and the full hand model. Any thoughts on DSA vs DCS for this usage scenario?

I know a lot of this is very preference based, but with no experience, it's difficult to decide. I suppose I could buy both, but another $60 for the DCS key caps is not insignificant for my budget :/

[tp4tissue]

Sound advice, thanks Glod!

It sounds like DCS might be better for the feel then? I'm planning to use this primarily for typing at work (maybe very occasional gaming), so I'd planned to go with the Cherry Blue switches and the full hand model. Any thoughts on DSA vs DCS for this usage scenario?

I know a lot of this is very preference based, but with no experience, it's difficult to decide. I suppose I could buy both, but another $60 for the DCS key caps is not insignificant for my budget :/

the DCS is a solid choice..  I prefer it over the DSA, I got both...

The DCS has larger vertical surface area, so it's easier to jump between rows than it is with DSA which are spaced far apart.

[kurplop]

In my opinion, the only advantage to having legends is for the benefit of guest users. The separate halves almost require touch typing and seeing the legends may encourage bad habits and slow the process of learning the layout.

As for the keycap profile, my vote would go to the dcs profile. The dsa's solved the confusion of creating a profiled layout that would work with the ErgoDox  and some say that they look better but I find some of the keys are easier to hit with the sculpted rows. I find that particularly true with the upper thumb keys.

[actionbastard]

Disregard, found info on layer modifying right after I asked a question about where to find it.

Standard.

[fisofo]

Thanks kurplop and tp4tissue, the DCS definitely sounds like what I want to start with, so I'm going to go that route. Now if only there were 25 more buyers in the last day!

[daerid]

Oh man oh man I want a second one but I just can't afford it right now   Hopefully they'll do another one at some point in the future.

[ksm123]

@daerid: I know your feeling exactly, I need second ErgoDox to keep it at work, and stop commuting with my keyboard, unfortunately, with my wedding in August I can't afford it.

[insilica]

Oh man oh man I want a second one but I just can't afford it right now   Hopefully they'll do another one at some point in the future.

Same boat except I would like just the one. Definitely in for one in round 4.

[wiredPANDA]

Don't think they were expecting to have as many buys as they've already done.  The demand is there, though.

[SubGothius]

you really NEED to grab massdrop's keycaps even if you are going to use your own. It is almost impossible otherwise to get the right profile 2x, 1.5x, and 1x caps for the pinky areas and thumb cluster. You can always mix in other keycaps into the massdrop ones if you absolutely need legends instead of blank.

FWIW, you can get individual blank caps from Signature Plastics for $1 each. I'd recommend the following if you'll be scavenging from an OEM board or filling out a tenkeyless set and want a DCS profile:

• 1.5x Row 2 - get 12 of these if you want a full set (I only needed 8 since I'm using the 1.5x Tab and \| caps, and the 1x Esc and NumLock caps in the top corners, that came with a scavenged set;
• 2x Row 4 Vertical (numpad Enter key) - get 2 of these for the middle 2x thumb keys (I only got 1, since I'm using the Enter cap from my scavenged set);
• 2x Row 1, 3 or 4 - get 2 of these in any combination you prefer for the nearest thumb keys; Row 1 has a fairly flat top, but 3 or 4 have sloped tops (4 moreso) that you may find comfortable for striking glancing blows with the flank of your thumb (I'm using the Row 1 Backspace cap from my scavenged set along with a Row 3 blank for my spacebar);
• 1x Row 1 - get at least 5 or 6 of these for your modifiers, but you may not need these if you're already using a set that includes F-keys (my scavenged set came with 1x modifiers, so I didn't need these).

Make sure you get the 2x keys with 1 or 3 mounts, as the 2-mount versions won't have the center mount you'll need. Of course, it's even easier if you want DSA blanks, since there's no row profiles to choose, so just get the 1.5x, 2x and 1x quantities you need in whatever color you want.

[daerid]

Sold the RF AE 87U for a second one, classic case this time. Looking forward to putting it together again

[Glod]

I've observed for awhile that daerid is a huge topre fan (nothing wrong with that!) and i imagine you still love the topre switch over cherry but Ergodox is so awesome that you are willing to give up the switch you love as your primary keyboard and even sell a Realforce keyboard for another one. that is a statement right there.

bah in other news i chickened out on getting the DCS massdrop keys, Money is mainly the reason but that's a lame excuse given i dropped money recently for the dolch dsa GB....

[daerid]

To be honest, I still think the Topre switch is the best, especially the 55g. However, before getting into mechanical keyboards I was using Microsoft Natural keyboards since 2000. Split ergonomic boards have always been my favorite layout, so naturally I had to give the ErgoDox a try. It has exceeded my expectations wildly. The only thing that would make it better (obviously) is if it were available in a Topre 55g switch. However, that's probably never going to happen, for quite a number of technical reasons.

So while I haven't given up my love for Topre, at the moment layout (and programmability!) trumps keyswitch. Plus 65g clears are the closest I can get to a Topre feel (nowhere near as crisp, but definitely tolerable).

[Poom]

Hi there,  I just got to know the Ergodox and very interested in the GB that is concluding in 2 days, though i can solder, but dont have the equipments with me and not worth buying new ones just for this and especially absolutely no time. also a noob at keyboards.

maybe this isnt the right place to ask, but does anyone know if someone is offering assembly service?

Thanks

[actionbastard]

Hi there,  I just got to know the Ergodox and very interested in the GB that is concluding in 2 days, though i can solder, but dont have the equipments with me and not worth buying new ones just for this and especially absolutely no time. also a noob at keyboards.

maybe this isnt the right place to ask, but does anyone know if someone is offering assembly service?

Thanks

I think there are a few people offering Edox assembly in the classified section.