Author Topic: How are you liking your ErgoDox?  (Read 79871 times)

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Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 02:24:23 »

- Lubed Red Switches (103/205 Mix with teflon spring lube)

...

The lubed red switches are like my new favorite thing, holy **** awesome

I tried lubing up my reds as well, although I had only 205 and to be honest it felt like it kind of just gummed them up a little--they actually feel a little heavier than they did before, which is saddening since it took a long time to do and would doubtlessly take much longer to clean off.

Also, where do you even GET 103, anyway? Is there anything more conventionally available that could possibly replace it? Is it a necessary component in order to actually reduce the friction when lubricating?

To be honest I read through most of the MMB lubing thread and I came out with about as many questions as when I started. I'd love some pointers if anyone's got some.

from what I understand, 205 is too gummy to be used alone, but don't take my word for it, as I don't have access to the grease. there's a groupbuy for 103 done by jdcarpe in the groupbuy forums at the moment.

anyway it sounds like you used too much lube. I had one switch gum up like that when I purposely used a large amount of superlube on the switch and the springs to test how much would be effective. what you need is a thin film of the lube, enough to see the surface of the sliders shine under bright light, but not so much that you could actually use a new brush to reabsorb the lube from the switch to use on another switch. Hope that helps.

whitefiredragon has a pretty good video that I used as a guide, but I'm guessing that you already watched that?

Edit: as it is, I think 205 alone could probably be used, though it might not be optimal. Also, as it is a grease, there would be some increase in the force needed to actuate the switch, but it should settle out in a short while after you give the keys a good half hour of typing.
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 April 2013, 02:31:42 by Larken »
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Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 04:29:24 »
yeah 205 alone is not a good ideal. the 103/205 mix on my reds is like the best thing ever

Reds are working out pretty well for me, kind of rolled the dice on using reds instead of brown that i am used to. Tried lubing some reds the other day and they seem pretty fantastic so i am going to lube and sticker mine this weekend

4th work day using it the whole day, ive added a larger slope/tent

However i seem to be making more mistakes now, got to keep learning, it does make my hands hurt less for sure with it like this.l

how does the slope help ergonomically and by how much?

well your wrists are not as twisted that way with slope and its all around more comfortable, many keyboards have allowed this slope like kinesis freestyle, freestyle2, and goldtouch adjustable and the super rare ibm m15 (among some others).

in fact i just added even more slope and its perfect now

lets see a picture of it! i guess the best way to produce the slant is by buying the freestyle2 palm support?

ok so here is now the slope looks now, i made it detachable so that i could break it down to put in my laptop bag

the lifter is the VIP3 kit for the kinesis freestyle, i already owned one for my freestyle of 3 years but its like $45 new for the kit itself
http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Freestyle2-Accessory-AC820-BLK-separately/dp/B008BVNQW4

There is a smaller/cheaper v-lifter kit that does not include the palm rest (which you wont need for the ergodox) and is shorter. its called the V3 and its about $30 it should do the same thing but is smaller
http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Ac730-blk-Freestyle-Accessory/dp/B003F8MDPY

I put big grip feet to keep from scratching desk and slide. the feet i bought were like $5 at target, i'm using big ones like this because they are less likely to come off while going in and out of my laptop bag...and then i used 3M fasteners (hardcore velcro), they are about $4 for a small pack, to attach the lifters

Here is the underneath, attaching the vlifters



here is the finished product with my wrist rests in which only the right side of my wrist touches them

damn it is so awesome

here is the high and low settings of the v lifters, i use the higher lift



be interesting to see others use either of these kits to make a slope mod, the slope is so much worth it. i imagine for the full hand ergodox things on the vlifters would need to be clipped off for it to work correctly

Next steps for me

- sleeve a 3.5 connector TRRS cable to connect the two hands to semi-match my mimic cable. I have the blue sleeving and black shrink
- cleanup/sand/polish/maybe-paint-or-vinyl my aluminium case and build my second ergodox. use ergo clears or lubed reds again.
- when DSA retro arrives attempt to switch to colemak layout.
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 April 2013, 04:31:53 by Glod »

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 04:37:24 »
yeah 205 alone is not a good ideal. the 103/205 mix on my reds is like the best thing ever

Reds are working out pretty well for me, kind of rolled the dice on using reds instead of brown that i am used to. Tried lubing some reds the other day and they seem pretty fantastic so i am going to lube and sticker mine this weekend

4th work day using it the whole day, ive added a larger slope/tent

However i seem to be making more mistakes now, got to keep learning, it does make my hands hurt less for sure with it like this.l

how does the slope help ergonomically and by how much?

well your wrists are not as twisted that way with slope and its all around more comfortable, many keyboards have allowed this slope like kinesis freestyle, freestyle2, and goldtouch adjustable and the super rare ibm m15 (among some others).

in fact i just added even more slope and its perfect now

lets see a picture of it! i guess the best way to produce the slant is by buying the freestyle2 palm support?

ok so here is now the slope looks now, i made it detachable so that i could break it down to put in my laptop bag

the lifter is the VIP3 kit for the kinesis freestyle, i already owned one for my freestyle of 3 years but its like $45 new for the kit itself
http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Freestyle2-Accessory-AC820-BLK-separately/dp/B008BVNQW4

There is a smaller/cheaper v-lifter kit that does not include the palm rest (which you wont need for the ergodox) and is shorter. its called the V3 and its about $30 it should do the same thing but is smaller
http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Ac730-blk-Freestyle-Accessory/dp/B003F8MDPY

I put big grip feet to keep from scratching desk and slide. the feet i bought were like $5 at target, i'm using big ones like this because they are less likely to come off while going in and out of my laptop bag...and then i used 3M fasteners (hardcore velcro), they are about $4 for a small pack, to attach the lifters

Here is the underneath, attaching the vlifters
Show Image

Show Image


here is the finished product with my wrist rests in which only the right side of my wrist touches them
Show Image

damn it is so awesome

here is the high and low settings of the v lifters, i use the higher lift
Show Image

Show Image


be interesting to see others use either of these kits to make a slope mod, the slope is so much worth it. i imagine for the full hand ergodox things on the vlifters would need to be clipped off for it to work correctly

Next steps for me

- sleeve a 3.5 connector TRRS cable to connect the two hands to semi-match my mimic cable. I have the blue sleeving and black shrink
- cleanup/sand/polish/maybe-paint-or-vinyl my aluminium case and build my second ergodox. use ergo clears or lubed reds again.
- when DSA retro arrives attempt to switch to colemak layout.

very cool. i just made my own stand using the massdrop cardbox. nothing fancy

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 04:46:36 »
Thanks for the picture of it on 'high'. Very helpful. My attempts at trying to make my own supports aren't going well at all. Any stability issues if you rest your hand on the keyboard in that setting? I have a bad habit of putting my whole hand's weight on the rests, although I don't press down on it.

I'm liking what I see, although I wish it could go a little higher. I'll probably order those off amazon in a few days along with other stuff.
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Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 04:58:52 »
no stability issues with the VIP3 kit, the kit was made to support weight of hands on a wrist rest for the freestyle so they are structurally strong. it also has built in rubber feet so it doesn't slide. it also does not wobble if i put weight on any of the 4 corners of the hand.

either of the kenesis v-lifter kits should work for either the classic or full hand ergodox, but modding will be required: sanding off some plastic, fasteners like i used, glue maybe, etc; but hell, if you built the ergodox i am sure modding the kenesis v-lifters shouldn't be a big deal

The v-lifter kits also come in white for the mac version of the kinesis freestyle (rev 1) but i couldn't find them anywhere on sale.

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 05:07:55 »
nice. as long as they're structurally stable, its good enough for me. thanks for helping a fella out.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline seferphier

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 11:34:32 »
i am really missing the metal plate feel from the filco. I don't really regret getting the acrylic palm rest though, i can imagine the palm rest would feel very cold during winter.


Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 16 April 2013, 20:08:17 »
I'm wondering if the ergodox is going to give me trouble at airport security with its clear acrylic case exposing amateur soldering work and exposed components. it may not look like a keyboard in the xray machine. lol. only one way to fine out when i fly next in may lololol

damn i can't get over how awesome this keyboard is! I'm so glad i joined wallet hack or i never would have heard of this last year.

Offline bisl

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 00:15:50 »

from what I understand, 205 is too gummy to be used alone, but don't take my word for it, as I don't have access to the grease. there's a groupbuy for 103 done by jdcarpe in the groupbuy forums at the moment.

anyway it sounds like you used too much lube. I had one switch gum up like that when I purposely used a large amount of superlube on the switch and the springs to test how much would be effective. what you need is a thin film of the lube, enough to see the surface of the sliders shine under bright light, but not so much that you could actually use a new brush to reabsorb the lube from the switch to use on another switch. Hope that helps.

whitefiredragon has a pretty good video that I used as a guide, but I'm guessing that you already watched that?

Edit: as it is, I think 205 alone could probably be used, though it might not be optimal. Also, as it is a grease, there would be some increase in the force needed to actuate the switch, but it should settle out in a short while after you give the keys a good half hour of typing.

This is good information--thanks. You're probably right; I probably have too much on my stems. Especially since it's just 205 alone!

More newb lewb questions, for anyone who wants to field them:

When 103 and 205 are used together, is it the oil on top of the grease, applied separately, or are the two literally mixed up in a slippery cocktail and applied together?
I notice that 105 oil is much more conventionally available than 103; could it possibly be used with 205 to the same effect? I'm in on jdcarpe's 103 buy, but the gumminess of my keys (even unlubed) is bad enough that I'd get 105 and clean it off only to replace it with 103 when it gets here.
I notice that 105 is muv

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 06:18:29 »



This is good information--thanks. You're probably right; I probably have too much on my stems. Especially since it's just 205 alone!

More newb lewb questions, for anyone who wants to field them:

When 103 and 205 are used together, is it the oil on top of the grease, applied separately, or are the two literally mixed up in a slippery cocktail and applied together?
I notice that 105 oil is much more conventionally available than 103; could it possibly be used with 205 to the same effect? I'm in on jdcarpe's 103 buy, but the gumminess of my keys (even unlubed) is bad enough that I'd get 105 and clean it off only to replace it with 103 when it gets here.
I notice that 105 is muv

those are some expensive lube mixtures you're playing with. I recommend you simply clean off the current layer you have at the moment and use them without relubing until the 103 arrives.

as to your other questions, watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eRvtLEZJFKM will give you answers. WFD actually shows how it's mixed. short answer - mixed up together in a cocktail, shaken and stirred.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4EaKBfLB28U will show you how it's applied.

I believe some geekhackers have actually used 105 alone with some success in the past, but I have no idea if it could be mixed with 205. I wouldn't try it myself. The new gold standard would appear to be 103 + 205.

For those on a lower budget, i.e. me, superlube is working fine.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline TDub

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 04:16:50 »
I used only 205 for my switches and I love it. But I have to add that I am using much heavier switches to begin with (clears and vintage blacks). The 205 makes both of them feel incredibly smooth and actually made them feel a little lighter for me. But I can see how it might have the opposite effect for reds. I do think the tactile switches profit more from the lube anyways, since they felt scratchier before lubing then the blacks did. I do plan on buying some 103 in the GB though and giving a mixture a try.

Offline kurplop

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 24 April 2013, 21:00:34 »
I have the aluminum case and while I haven't used it much yet because of a problem I encountered modifying a trackball to fit into a tray I built for it I have some comments to make about it.

Things I like
The hollow thunk sound it makes when I bottom out keys.
The ability to place the two sides exactly where I am most comfortable- tenting, splaying and spacing.
The thrill of it actually working when I downloaded the firmware. A couple of months ago I didn't know what firmware was.
The chance to try my hand at working with aluminum,  soldering on pcb's, helicoils, etc.
Massdrop exceeding all expectations.
To be part of a great experiment with all of you.

Things that I'd change if I could
I would have made a bigger arc on the rows.
I would have bought a second aluminum case when I could.
I would have taken more time between coats finishing the integrated keyboard tray. The water borne finish blushed slightly and the colors aren't as rich as they might have been.

Still to do
I will probably anodize the aluminum top plates. They are quite soft as is.
Hopefully, I can troubleshoot my scrolling problem in the trackball or I'll own a very expensive paperweight.

I've been using a Truly Ergonomic keyboard for a year and while it's been a great improvement over a standard keyboard, I don't think they angled the columns enough for me, it's not tented and their lack of response to inquires has been insulting. I know the ErgoDox is a great improvement on all counts and it's nice to be a part of a project conceived by and developed by people who volunteered much so the rest of us could benefit.


Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:31:20 »
could we get this moved to either the ergonomics subsection or reviews? does seem more appropriate.
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Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:00:11 »
I actually meant to create this in the ergonomics forum. it would go better in the ergonomics instead of review area considering it is not a single review. in fact yeah i should have asked hashbaz while he was looking in this thread to move it......

would love to hear more people share though experiences. thanks kurplop for added your input

surely out of the 200+ sold in round 1 there has to be a couple dozen or more assembled in use......


Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:08:38 »
yea, I was just thinking it'll get more eyeballs in the ergo forums as the keyboards section does seem to move a little fast. I'm still waiting on my v3s to be delivered, can't wait.
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Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 01:40:49 »
well a little update on my ergodox experience

I'm up to 70wpm which is what i was before on normal keyboards, i'm no awesome typist like some here but to me my 70wpm is acceptable.

Ive realized that i actually like the hands a bit closer together in a distance similar to the kinesis advantage.

i still i like my original layout and i haven't changed it though when the DSA retro comes in i may try colemak and try to focus some energy off my pinkies.

I've become a little annoyed with a few things though, some of which is my fault

1. the wrist pads i am using are just too low, especially with the way i have the ergodox tented, i need to find some much higher ones to maybe get a kenesis advantage kind of thing going on. i may have to make them myself. It does make me a little bit regret not getting the full hand.

2. I am not happy with the looks of it. I really imagine myself not getting a good reception at an office when i set it up and looking like a weirdo. Not for the fact it is a split keyboard; the clear acrylic case, exposed parts, and mismatched key caps really makes it look like more of a prototype i should leave at home. I still have the aluminium case for the other ergodox un-built that maybe i can clean up and with the DSA Retro key caps it should look much better. I am just not digging the clear acrylic most of all. I really wish there were other case options like the one on the ergodox website.

3. i think i am starting to regret putting reds on the ergodox. when i first put them on and then lubed them i thought wow lubed reds are completely different from anything i have used and i was liking them. 2 weeks later and trying out my other keyboards like the topre, blues, and browns i realize that the tactility is more desirable. What i realized is that while i was typing slow on the ergodox learning it the reds were great but as i started to type faster and faster on it the reds start leaving a feeling on my fingers that is not pleasant. when i type faster i am hard on my keyboard and bottom out always.

4. i just cant use this thing for gaming, i think the matrix layout is actually throwing me off when i'm playing games. I am using my HHKB instead for gaming. it could be the wrist rest thing the most, when i play games i really rely on setting my wrists down on something instead of floating above the keyboard

oh well
/rant

hell it is geekhack, where else am i going to leave rants about my keyboards :P
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 April 2013, 01:42:20 by Glod »

Offline ksm123

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 02:31:57 »
After reading about clear acrylic keyboard looks I started to wonder:
Did any of you took this keyboard through airport security? Were there any problems?

Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 03:26:03 »
i will find out in 2 weeks when i fly for a short business trip.

i mean i know i made that comment earlier about it looking a little bit suspicious but i think it will be fine

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 04:43:16 »
I'm toying with the idea of printing the words "This is a Ergonomic Keyboard" in sticker form and pasting it on my ergodox that I plan to bring around. A little direct, but less so than having to explain what it is to airport security.

@Glod
1. For a tented set up, fullhand does work a lot better than classic. After my set of v3 arrives, I'll look into finish modding my fullhand complete with extra leather wrist pads. I'll probably post back when I'm done with it, but it'll probably take a while. I hope the third ergodox you got was of the fullhand variety?

2. I actually really like the transparent look, but the tendency of the acrylic to attract dirt and scratches gave me no choice but to paste some vinyl over mine. I got decent results, though I do miss seeing the the beautiful designed pcb through the acrylic. You could look into having the one on the website printed by shapeways, but it's pretty pricey.

3. Lubed ergo-clears, try it. I've tried every mx switch with the except of whites, vintage blues or blacks, and super-blacks, and ergo-clears are downright the best for typing if you're looking to avoid the click of the blues but still have tons of tactility.

4. I know what you're referring to in your post, and my personal experience is that tenting doesn't really work well for gaming. Set your ergodox flat down with a wrist rest while you're gaming and you probably won't have any problems using it.
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Offline kurplop

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 07:43:46 »
Glod, your experience is like the groom, waking up the day after the wedding, taking a good look at his sleeping bride and thinking,  "what have I done". Don't worry. She'll brush her teeth, do her hair and your concerns will fade away. Take care of her and she'll treat you right.

I appreciate your honesty about the ErgoDox and I had anticipated some of your concerns.

1. Maybe you've overdone the tenting angle. There's always the temptation to think that more is better and we end up solving one problem only to discover a new one. I think by using longer screws to add another layer under the case that extends forward to hold a wrist rest would be an easy and effective solution.

2. The look of the ErgoDox in the raw is truly that of an enthusiast's keyboard. Larken vinyl solution or placing an opaque sheet under the first layer would help. When the dust settles, we may find the Shapeway design to be the most acceptable for workplace conformity.

3. Do you think O-rings would help the red's?

4. Why do you think the matrix design affects your gaming?

Do you sometimes think that we are more interested in searching for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow than finding it?

Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 08:25:27 »
@Larken

well.... the third i purchased was also not full hand as well :O  regretting that and its too late to change that. i am going to have to come up a wrist rest solution

The second will have ergo clears for sure, i didn't get clears through massdrop because I ordered a bunch of clears through the phantom parts group buy before the ergodox sale....I'm still waiting for those to come (*sigh*)

i think you are right, the tent is bad for gaming

@kurplop

i may have overdone the tent just a little bit.

i am using O-rings right now, added them last week and they help a little bit  but it doesn't change the fact they are linear and the only tactility is me bottoming out.

actually i take that back about the matrix affecting the gaming, i think it is more of the tent/slope i have created

--


i think later next month or June i am going to look into having another case made for the ergodox. ive never looked into any this stuff like cad, cnc stuff, 3d print/shapeways stuff; it would be a completely new adventure for me.



Offline wasabah

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:14:41 »
After tweaking my layout, I'm actually satisfied with my Ergodox.
I still feel somewhat limited because my typing speed took a huge hit.
I was a really fast typist, but I never really learned the 10 finger system.
This in combination with the quite easy going browns (which I love) leads to a lot of mistakes.

Another thing I need to solve very soon is the friction issue. The Ergodox behaves on my desk like an air hockey puck.
Do you have any ideas how to solve this elegantly?
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline esoomenona

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:16:41 »
MMMMM, come to me, ErgoDox! I hope I love this thing.

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:30:36 »
After tweaking my layout, I'm actually satisfied with my Ergodox.
I still feel somewhat limited because my typing speed took a huge hit.
I was a really fast typist, but I never really learned the 10 finger system.
This in combination with the quite easy going browns (which I love) leads to a lot of mistakes.

Another thing I need to solve very soon is the friction issue. The Ergodox behaves on my desk like an air hockey puck.
Do you have any ideas how to solve this elegantly?

I use these. They would fit well with a transparent case. Alternatively, you could get a nonslip mat for your entire table.



I'd pretty much hit the same speed I did with a usual qwerty keyboard, which was about 85wpm (not that impressive, I know). I never did learn the 10 finger system until I got the ergodox either, but at the moment I really dread going back to a staggered board.

@kurplop

I found my pot of gold, and I'm happy. I actually lost interest in getting any more keyboards. Btw I found your analogy of the newly married man pretty amusing :D and I'm a huge huge fan of your tray. have you fixed the issue with your expert mouse yet?

@the moose deity - I have no doubt you'd hate the first 2-3 days. but keep at it alright? it'll grow on you!
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline esoomenona

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:32:32 »
Thanks! I intend to keep at it. I plan to use it at work, where I do almost all of my keyboard typing. Just need to determine a layout I might like! And hope that DSA Retro comes soon.

Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:33:43 »
Pololu (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/749) prices a custom cut acrylic (Using two colors oreo style) at $100. Total, not per hand. One solid color would be cheaper.
So a black acrylic case wouldn't be too expensive.

Offline wasabah

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:38:56 »
@Larken: interesting! What are the big ones?

Ah, and just for the record: I love the Ergodox for gaming! ;)
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline kurplop

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:42:10 »
@Larken
It's nice to know that the simile wasn't wasted.

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:45:14 »
@Larken: interesting! What are the big ones?

Ah, and just for the record: I love the Ergodox for gaming! ;)

its just some random door bumpers I got at a hardware store. its taller so to achieve a tented angle, but I'm finding the angle not extreme enough for me, so I'm waiting on the kinesis v3 kit Glod recommended earlier in this thread before I make anymore changes.

gotta say though, the split keyboard along with the tented angle works wonders for me - I type in excess of 8 hours daily, and was starting to show mild signs of CTS before I got the ergodox. turned to voice recognition for a while (didn't work out) and cut short my hours for about 1-2 weeks. don't have much of a wrist issue after I got the ergodox - except maybe for extensive gaming sessions with the mouse hand. love it.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline wasabah

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 12:51:13 »
Okay, cool. Thanks!
I really like the idea, especially because I'm only looking for a slight angle.
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline sordna

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 00:27:15 »
i am using O-rings right now, added them last week and they help a little bit  but it doesn't change the fact they are linear and the only tactility is me bottoming out.

Why don't you install a buzzer like I did? You can make your reds "clicky" which REALLY helps avoid bottoming out:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg840977#msg840977
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844285#msg844285


Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 01:00:36 »
Glod, your experience is like the groom, waking up the day after the wedding, taking a good look at his sleeping bride and thinking,  "what have I done". Don't worry. She'll brush her teeth, do her hair and your concerns will fade away. Take care of her and she'll treat you right.

I appreciate your honesty about the ErgoDox and I had anticipated some of your concerns.

1. Maybe you've overdone the tenting angle. There's always the temptation to think that more is better and we end up solving one problem only to discover a new one. I think by using longer screws to add another layer under the case that extends forward to hold a wrist rest would be an easy and effective solution.

2. The look of the ErgoDox in the raw is truly that of an enthusiast's keyboard. Larken vinyl solution or placing an opaque sheet under the first layer would help. When the dust settles, we may find the Shapeway design to be the most acceptable for workplace conformity.

3. Do you think O-rings would help the red's?

4. Why do you think the matrix design affects your gaming?

Do you sometimes think that we are more interested in searching for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow than finding it?

Please don't compare trusty'ol electronics with women...

I'm not against objectifying, but eh... not nice..

However, I'd say the ergodox is way more reliable though it's function is more limited.

Offline litster

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 02:25:14 »
any one has both the regular version and the full wrist rest version?  I know the aluminum case from Mass Drop is sucky.  Any feedback on the acrylic case designs besides not having an adjustable leg solution, or any leg solution?

Offline ksm123

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 03:04:03 »
A question for those of you, who use acrylic plate from massdrop purchase.

Is it possible to disassemble a switch (to change spring or lube it) without un-soldering it first? If so, then what tools are required?

Offline Larken

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 03:10:30 »
I have both, and prefer the full wrist rest version. Aside from really tight tolerances around the sides, there's also the issue of not the stabiliser slots for the thumb buttons not being usable, as well as something funky about the directions of stab mounts too, though I remember bpiphany commenting that he made a boo boo on the pcb on this, which I assume was how the placement in the acrylic came around (although in actual practice, it can be used without stabs, so no biggie). There's also a few funky stuff that cropped up (which I believe was due to the manufacturing rather than your design, so that's irrelevant).

Overall, I really like the case design and it works.

Here's an idea that could be considered though - detachable wrist rests using a hybrid of the classic case and the full hand. What kurplop said earlier about extending layers gave me the idea (I have no idea how to use CAD, so pardon my doodling):



1. Start off with the classic case design.
2. Take layers 2,3,4 and extend the side where the wrist rest was supposed to be, by another inch or so. add screw spots.
3. recess the wrist rest's 2,3,4 layers by the same amount.
4. add screw spots. (the blue dots) - using the same bolt and nuts in the original design to hold it together.

Just a idea that came up suddenly, as adding that part there (the red area) shouldn't interfere too much with the way people are holding their hands when using the classic, but still gives them the option of attaching a rest if they want. Screw hole placements all around would have to be adjusted of course.

A question for those of you, who use acrylic plate from massdrop purchase.

Is it possible to disassemble a switch (to change spring or lube it) without un-soldering it first? If so, then what tools are required?

it's possible. just use a screwdriver or tweezers, or if you can get your hands on a pair, Beast's switch tools. It's designed for the ez open method.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 April 2013, 03:12:02 by Larken »
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline kurplop

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 07:15:18 »

@sordna

I really like your buzzer idea. I have a few questions.

1. Can it be turned off and on at will?

2. How loud is it and can the volume be adjusted? What does it sound like?

3. Would you say that the buzzer is vulnerable to damage where it's located and could there be any issues using it with the aluminum case?

4. Is it mounted after the case is assembled? How?

Sorry if you've answered these questions else ware.

Thanks for all the support you've offered to us on this project. For every question you've answered, there has undoubtably been scores of us who have quietly benefitted.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 April 2013, 07:18:02 by kurplop »

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 07:58:11 »
I like ergonomic keyboards, and have used those which kind of separate your hands. The thing I like most about them, is the way they are shaped to facilitate a comfortable position of the hands. I have had little trouble adapting to the ones I tried.

The ergodox does not seem as appealing to me however. It just sits flat on the table, looking cool but it does not seem to do too much for you when it comes to ergonomics (or at least it seems that way compared to other ergonomic keyboards).



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Offline esoomenona

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 08:01:14 »
i am using O-rings right now, added them last week and they help a little bit  but it doesn't change the fact they are linear and the only tactility is me bottoming out.

Why don't you install a buzzer like I did? You can make your reds "clicky" which REALLY helps avoid bottoming out:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg840977#msg840977
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844285#msg844285

Show Image

Show Image

You have a video of that in action?

Offline sordna

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 13:31:40 »

@sordna

I really like your buzzer idea. I have a few questions.

1. Can it be turned off and on at will?

You would need to modify the firmware if you want the capability to turn it on/off with some hotkey. My firmware modification keeps it on since I can't live without it :-)  But they way I installed it I can unplug it easily.

Quote
2. How loud is it and can the volume be adjusted? What does it sound like?

It's about as loud as bottoming out without o-rings. It sounds similar to a Kinesis Advantage with clicks turned on.

Quote
3. Would you say that the buzzer is vulnerable to damage where it's located and could there be any issues using it with the aluminum case?

You would need to either drill a big hole in the case to fit it in (best option) or pull 2 little wires and somehow mount it on top. They I put it (on top of the case) is not a good option if you want to transport the keyboard.

Quote
4. Is it mounted after the case is assembled? How?

What I did is drill my case and squeeze in some wires in the relevant teensy holes (see my hi res pic). I haven't actually soldered it so I can easily pull it in and out!

Hopefully GH will allow posting of an mp3 file with the sound, first I type without the buzzer, then with the buzzer, and last type slowly without bottoming out at all so you can only hear the buzzer and not the keys.

* ergodox_buzzer.mp3 (160.33 kB - downloaded 1191 times.)
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 April 2013, 13:43:51 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 13:49:19 »

@sordna

I really like your buzzer idea. I have a few questions.

1. Can it be turned off and on at will?

You would need to modify the firmware if you want the capability to turn it on/off with some hotkey. My firmware modification keeps it on since I can't live without it :-)  But they way I installed it I can unplug it easily.

Quote
2. How loud is it and can the volume be adjusted? What does it sound like?

It's about as loud as bottoming out without o-rings. It sounds similar to a Kinesis Advantage with clicks turned on.

Quote
3. Would you say that the buzzer is vulnerable to damage where it's located and could there be any issues using it with the aluminum case?

You would need to either drill a big hole in the case to fit it in (best option) or pull 2 little wires and somehow mount it on top. They I put it (on top of the case) is not a good option if you want to transport the keyboard.

Quote
4. Is it mounted after the case is assembled? How?

What I did is drill my case and squeeze in some wires in the relevant teensy holes (see my hi res pic). I haven't actually soldered it so I can easily pull it in and out!

Hopefully GH will allow posting of an mp3 file with the sound, first I type without the buzzer, then with the buzzer, and last type slowly without bottoming out at all so you can only hear the buzzer and not the keys.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]


Hey sordna, could space ship laser sounds be done? or startrek holo-deck sounds?

Offline Dgsbllx

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 14:00:48 »
Hey sordna, could space ship laser sounds be done? or startrek holo-deck sounds?


Offline Glod

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 30 April 2013, 16:07:45 »
put sound effects like that when changing layers, would be pretty cool instead

attempting some new ergonomics

No tenting/slope this time.
Instead of the 14 inches i usually had between the hands, the hands are only 6 inches apart at the bottom of the thumb clusters and 4 inches apart at the very top.
A higher wrist rest, 1.5 inch thich instead of .75 inch thick. the top of the wrist rest is .5 inches higher than the top of the the ergodox case. just a little higher than the keycaps.
Raising my chair up so that my elbows on the arm rests of my chair are the same height as the wrists on the rests.

I think the distance is better like this  and the height of the wrist rests seems correct now. there is still room for improvement. i think i may want to go back to tenting them up just a little bit, like 10 degree angle instead of the 35 degree angle i had before (!)

Offline Dreyer

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #92 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 12:12:52 »
Man, after a week using my ErgoDox I am really loving it. Here are some thoughts thus far:

-It was really fun and intuitive to assembly it, even for a electronics layman like me.  It was the first time that i soldered smd and it was quite a mess. Even so the quality of the plates were so good that compensate my poor soldering skills.

- I really like the split design. It is very comfortable to type with even after long periods of time. It also helps to help me to revert some typing bad habits, like pushing some keys (like the "y")
with different hands depending of the world.

- The matrix layout is very nice, making easier to touch type. However it takes time to get use to it. For example even after a week I find somewhat odd to press the "n" key, it is only a few millimeters father than in a normal keyboard but for some reason I find myself making a lot of mistakes.

-I opted for black cherry switches, after a long time pondering between them and the reds. I think i made the right choice in the end since even with the blacks I find it very easy to press a key that I didn't mean to.

-I really liked all the customization possibilities. The configurator tool is really easy to use (much more after I discovered that I didn't need to press the teensy button each time I want to change profiles), and i find myself wasting long periods of time messing with different layouts.

-I find it very difficult to notice when the leds are on. I don't know if i mount then right tough.

-As many other people are complaining I find the thumb cluster a little to far away, making some of the keys, especially the most outer one, hard to press.

-I don't mind the blank keycaps. Since I touch type this isn't a problem at all. However a lot of my friend that liked the keyboard, couldn't use it.

All in all is a great keyboard that I would definitely  recommend to anyone into mechanical keyboards.

Offline seferphier

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #93 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 14:00:25 »
The configurator tool is really easy to use (much more after I discovered that I didn't need to press the teensy button each time I want to change profiles), and i find myself wasting long periods of time messing with different layouts.

how do you change profiles without pressing the teensy button?

Offline Dreyer

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #94 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 16:01:54 »
Well, in the configurator page you can assign one of the keyboard keys as a "tennsy bootloader", so you can press it instead of the actual button on the teensy.

I guess you still have to press a button, but it is much faster than to actual disassembling the plates each time you want to load a new profile.

Offline daerid

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How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #95 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 17:24:29 »
F that. I wouldn't give up a key for that, I think I'm just going to wire in a small external switch for the boot loader.

Offline WRXChris

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #96 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 17:46:48 »
F that. I wouldn't give up a key for that, I think I'm just going to wire in a small external switch for the boot loader.

But the teensy button can be put on any layer!  I believe the firmware is capable of 20 layers, surely you can find 1 free key out of 1560! ;)
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2013, 17:49:22 by WRXChris »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #97 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 17:51:37 »
F that. I wouldn't give up a key for that, I think I'm just going to wire in a small external switch for the boot loader.

But the teensy button can be put on any layer!  I believe the firmware is capable of 20 layers, surely you can find 1 free key out of 1560! ;)

that's alotta pancakes :D

Offline daerid

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #98 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 18:52:13 »
But the teensy button can be put on any layer!  I believe the firmware is capable of 20 layers, surely you can find 1 free key out of 1560! ;)

Ahhh ok. That makes things much nicer then. Thanks!

Offline Calyx

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Re: How are you liking your ErgoDox?
« Reply #99 on: Thu, 06 June 2013, 15:55:15 »
I dont have an ErgoDox (yet) but I do have a TECK.  A lot of people have had concerns about the lack of tenting on the TECK.  I did too until I applied some cello ergonomics.  On the cello and violin the left hand fingers are slanted rather than perpendicular to the strings.  This provides a lot of ergonomic benefits that can transfer to the keyboard.  Most people see the aligned matrix keys and naturally want to line their fingers up with the rows.  While this may have been what the inventors intended it is not necessarily the best way to type.  Slanting your fingers outward allows your wrists to straighten out of ulnar deviation.  A picture is worth a thousand words. 

24557-0

This lessens the need for tenting because it allows the wrists to relax in the same direction.  If you are using a wrist rest then the wrists no longer lie flat but on the outer wrist bone. 

As always, YMMV.  But it works well for me.
Setup: Microdox (Workman-P) & Tilted Msft Trackball Explorer