Putting my P4 to the pasture: Building a new Linux gaming box && need your input

[dante]

Ok - they let me out [edit%%%%]

[tp4tissue]

Overclocking IS reliable... why no overclocking... you're missing 40% of the performance..

[tp4tissue]

There is only 1 Computer configuration that is worth while for something such as this..

4790k,  z97 motherboard (anything $150-200),  256gb 840pro,  16gb 2133mhz ddr3 or 8gb 2133mhz ddr3

Ati r9 290  or  290x,  Nvidia 780 or 780 ti,

nh-d14 cpu cooler.

$20 computer case.. there are many...


You get the best performance per dollar out of those parts..


for monitor you'd want one that supports lightboost clear motion.. so find one that will fit in whatever budget you have left..

[tp4tissue]

You NEED an SSD.... you can even get a cheap ass one.. but a computer is not a computer without an SSD...

it's like ****ing going to h00ters and all the girls were flat-chested..  You would feel extremely cheated...

[tp4tissue]

Wait. .i forgot ..

What is your MAXIMUM Budget...

[dante]

ha!

[tp4tissue]

Wait. .i forgot ..

What is your MAXIMUM Budget...

Show Image

Including monitor I have $1,500 to budget with.

After rereading my wall of text I have distilled my algorithm as:

Reliability > Linux Compatibility > Energy Efficiency > Performance.

That's perfect for a Beasty PC...  OKOK.. let me look up exact parts.. wait, do you have Microcenter Brick and mortar Access ?

[Zeal]

SSDs are more energy efficient than HDDs, and way more reliable.  )

You can get 1TB SSDs for ~$500 now, it's crazy.

Once you go SSD, you won't go back. Guaranteed.

[tp4tissue]

Cpu,

4790k,  $339

Motherboard,

Asus Maximux VII Hero, $212

Ram,

2x8GB 1600mhz (on sale), ~$100

GPU,

GTX 780, ~$420 (after rebate + free game(sell it))

PSU,

Anything Seasonic built, 550-700 watt, ~$80

Case,

Wait for Budget cases like 200r, 300r, ~$10-25 (after rebate)

SSD,

GO cheap, 256gb, ~$100, like crucial mx100... Not the fastest, but trust me, the expensive models are NOT worth it, the random performance is within 1-5%...

even if people argue durability, you're not a Data-server, for gaming and desktop use, you will not exceed the write durability even in 20 years..

CPU Cooler,

NH -D14, $70



^ this should come out to $1350..

now that leaves you $150 for a monitor..  so sell some stuff for more cash..


You can substitute the 4790k with 4690k, but that's assuming you don't do heavy multitasking..   which could be..  which will save $100..  which gives you $250 for a monitor, more than enough..

Get whichever monitor you like... I'd stick with lightboosted TN panels for gaming.. they're so awesome.. lightboost is amazing.. motion is as clear as Old CRTs..

[dante]

 

Thanks for all the info - much appreciated.  I'm going to research monitors this week and come back with a model looking for opinions.

My knowledge of SSD's is woefully out of date ... I thought you were trolling but after researching them for 4 hours I think I'm going to go with one.

What sites/magazines do you guys read on a regular basis to keep up with desktop hardware?  I don't want to be this clueless again...

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for all the info - much appreciated.  I'm going to research monitors this week and come back with a model looking for opinions.

My knowledge of SSD's is woefully out of date ... I thought you were trolling but after researching them for 4 hours I think I'm going to go with one.

What sites/magazines do you guys read on a regular basis to keep up with desktop hardware?  I don't want to be this clueless again...

you don't need to read anything anymore..  because intel has a monopoly on gaming CPU, and they only have 3-4 overclockable cpu per generation.. you don't have choices like 8 years ago.

[dante]

Revisions /// Thoughts

Intel Core i7 4790S 3.2GHz Quad Core 8MB 65W
NVidia GTX 750ti 2gb (chosen due to energy efficiency "best bang for the watt", also it has been out for a while so the Linux drivers *** should knock knock *** be stable)
2x 8GB 1600mhz

[Zeal]

750ti is quite a weak card for "gaming". Honestly, electricity isn't that expensive, and you're not going to be running your rig 24/7/365.

I'd highly suggest sticking to r9 290(x), or 680/770/780s.

Also you may not want to lock yourself down to a non-OC'able CPU. I understand that you're aiming for energy efficiency, but you may find yourself wanting to push the clocks higher in the future.

[tp4tissue]

Revisions /// Thoughts

Intel Core i7 4790S 3.2GHz Quad Core 8MB 65W
NVidia GTX 750ti 2gb (chosen due to energy efficiency "best bang for the watt", also it has been out for a while so the Linux drivers *** should knock knock *** be stable)
2x 8GB 1600mhz

Um..... wha...  LOL

Why would you get

4790S..

If you get the 4790k.. and undervolt,  it can turn into 4790S..

and I believe the 4790k has all the Cpu features  unlike 4770k which was cut..


There's NO POINT in getting the 4790S


750Ti  is a really weak ass card if you had a budget of $1500...   


2x8GB,  If you REALLY REALLY think you need 16GB, that's ok...  I've seen lowest for this is $130 on sale for 2x8GB,  don't pay more than that..


But yea,, Definitly NO GO on the 4790s and 750ti..  you'll be kicking ur self in the nuts later.. when it can't run ANYTHING...

4790K can overclock to 4.8ghz, that's significantly faster than 4790s for the same money..

for $1500, you really should get either a gtx 780 or a 290x...  780TI, would be a stretch..



Key thing to remember is that without overclocking..  your PRice/ Performance ratio Is Terrible...

[osi]

Get a k series!! Period

[tp4tissue]

OVERCLOCK !!!!!! 

[dante]

OVERCLOCK !!!!!! 

Show Image

If I convinced myself that overclocking is ok, why not Pentium G3258?

[tp4tissue]

OVERCLOCK !!!!!! 

Show Image

If I convinced myself that overclocking is ok, why not Pentium G3258?

we're building the $1500 budget..

if we're working with the $300 budget, we'd go g3258,

[tp4tissue]

Technically.. in terms of Price/Performance.. the g3258 is KING.. IFF you can get the Microcenter Deal.. the Mobo + CPU for $100

However, the g3258 is a dual core only.. it's great for the Dadputer I put together.. but for a modern 1337 h4x0rz1ng it's a bit anemic..

[dante]

Ok [ !! ]

What would you say is the best 24" monitor for under $500.

[tp4tissue]

Ok [ !! ]

What would you say is the best 24" monitor for under $500.

Anything Around $500 that's not realistically in your budget if you want your computer to be Mucho Beast..

Let me explain the IPS Fanboi vs TN   first..  This should help clear up some misconceptions..


IPS has better viewing angles, and SOMETIMES, better color reproduction.

This is important to ONLY 1 type of people.. Professional artists that do PRINT work and Graphics Design..

For typical users, the color accuracy/ wide gamut is useless, and cannot even be realized without using a color probe, an additional ($200)


Now,  the NEW Lightboosting TN..

Lightboosting is the New kid around the block.. and it is not possible on IPSes because it requires High refresh rate of 100hz + to function properly..

These pictures show the difference in a MOVING image between lightboosted and NON-lightboosted.



NON-boosted



Light-boosted


Basically.. any moving image on IPS monitors / non-boosted TN monitors will look like a blurry mess.... VS the crystal clear reproduction on boosted TN panels.



When you evaluate a monitor, ask yourself,  WHAT GOOD is static image color reproduction, if all moving images are a freaking blur.

Do you game predominantly in Static or Moving images..   ?


Based on that,  it is quite clear that UNLESS you absolutely need color reproduction for PRINT or Graphics work..   

IPS panels are a total waste of time... AND ontop of that,  they're completely BLURRY when it comes to motion clarity..



I honestly don't recommend any 24" monitors because that is just too small, IDK how old you are.. but squinting is a throwback to a time when we HAD TO/ without choice use smaller monitors..

Currently, most budget lightboosted monitors are hax0red to work with lightboosting, and they're all small..

The upcoming Asus PG-278-Q will be the first lightboosted 144hz 27" with 2560x1440.

IMHO that will be the BEST consumer monitor on the market...

Problem is it will be ~$700-800


My recommendation is to Save up more money, and buy it.. rather than buy a smaller panel where you have to squint.. or worse play your games in blurry motion..

[dante]

I honestly don't recommend any 24" monitors because that is just too small,

For my personal situation a 24" is PLENTY for me. I can tell you like going big and not going home - but can you just recommend what you would buy if you had to go 24"?

[tp4tissue]

I honestly don't recommend any 24" monitors because that is just too small,

For my personal situation a 24" is PLENTY for me. I can tell you like going big and not going home - but can you just recommend what you would buy if you had to go 24"?

What about one of those $300  42" changhong tvs...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=20eef0d15f7a41c085ff47d9c0c76329&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16889624003&cm_sp=

These go for as low as $270 on sale...


Move your table away from the wall....   sit ~6 feet away..... relax your eye muscles..

[dante]

I honestly don't recommend any 24" monitors because that is just too small,

For my personal situation a 24" is PLENTY for me. I can tell you like going big and not going home - but can you just recommend what you would buy if you had to go 24"?

What about one of those $300  42" changhong tvs...

Show Image

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=20eef0d15f7a41c085ff47d9c0c76329&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16889624003&cm_sp=

These go for as low as $270 on sale...


Move your table away from the wall....   sit ~6 feet away..... relax your eye muscles..

Nope - I want to stick with 24"

[tp4tissue]

I honestly don't recommend any 24" monitors because that is just too small,

For my personal situation a 24" is PLENTY for me. I can tell you like going big and not going home - but can you just recommend what you would buy if you had to go 24"?

What about one of those $300  42" changhong tvs...

Show Image

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=20eef0d15f7a41c085ff47d9c0c76329&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16889624003&cm_sp=

These go for as low as $270 on sale...


Move your table away from the wall....   sit ~6 feet away..... relax your eye muscles..

Nope - I want to stick with 24"

42"  has a 4 and a 2 in it..   that's pretty close

[JPG]

SSD is a must, really.

Here's a good  source of information:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269.html

[tp4tissue]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00906HM6K/?tag=blurbust-20

http://shop.benq.us/monitors/gaming/xl2720z-newest-27-gaming-monitor.html?PID=7073658&utm_source=cj&utm_medium=CPA&utm_campaign=cj


those are fairly competant boost monitors..  the benq is slightly better because it has a bit more support and was developed rather than "hax0rd" like the Asus..


But.. if you go down  on a $500 monitor..  you will be below the $1200 threshold for a Best Performance/Price ratio PC

So perhaps raise your budget to $1700... 

[dante]

SSD is a must, really.

Here's a good  source of information:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269.html

I'm sold on SSD.  The only thing I need to research is if CrunchBang detects/auto configs for SSD after install; if not - I need to find out what needs to be done which would be a good learning experience anyway.

The monitor is the last thing I need help with.  I've been reading the reviews and they are all around 90% so it could be anyones game.

[tp4tissue]

SSD is a must, really.

Here's a good  source of information:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269.html

I'm sold on SSD.  The only thing I need to research is if CrunchBang detects/auto configs for SSD after install; if not - I need to find out what needs to be done which would be a good learning experience anyway.

The monitor is the last thing I need help with.  I've been reading the reviews and they are all around 90% so it could be anyones game.

I wouldn't go by the reviews..  There is not alot of information in good vs bad.. 1 star vs 5 star..

you have too look at application.. motion clarity for movies/games,  color reproduction for print, graphics design work..

Quality?  they're all about the same.. because they all come from the same plant in China.

it doesn't matter if the panels are made by samsung,  the weakest link is how much the brand payed the Chinese OEMs to assemble the damn thing..

[dante]

how about either of these?

http://shop.benq.us/monitors/24-monitors/xl2420z.html
http://www.amazon.com/VG248QE-24-Inch-Screen-LED-lit-Monitor/dp/B00B2HH7G0/

[IvanIvanovich]

Increase your budget a bit and you could do this http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?1481851_g10e which is a nice VA highspeed. So you get 120hz+ AND good colors and viewing angles. It's probably the best thing you can get close to the budget you set, is very highly regarded and has excellent features from a renowned brand.
I also agree the intel S series is a waste as they really are essentially binned for running on lower voltage, though most of the normal ones can do the same. T series has a point because it's WAY lower power but you trade off on much slower clocks with those. In any case with C states you will be running them in the 1.xgHz with lower voltages on less power more than not outside gaming so it's pretty much a non issue.
For GPU I would be looking at 760/670 at minimum.

[tp4tissue]

how about either of these?

http://shop.benq.us/monitors/24-monitors/xl2420z.html
http://www.amazon.com/VG248QE-24-Inch-Screen-LED-lit-Monitor/dp/B00B2HH7G0/

dante.. ur gonna kick urself in the nuts.. for not getting a bigger monitor..  This is not immediately obvious..  Trust me on this..

[IvanIvanovich]

This is true... for the money you can get some very good 27" 1440p that run in 90-120Hz modes from Korean brands like Achieva, Yamasaki, Catleap, etc. But I wouldn't ever even consider a bigger screen than 24" either if it wasn't at least 1440p. The dot pitch gets too big and it looks like **** on 1080 on larger screen.

[tp4tissue]

Let me give you some more Science..

Resting point of accommodation = ~30 inches,
___The lens bubble in your eye is controlled by ciliary muscles.  @ 30 inches +, the muscles are relaxed

Resting point of Vergence = ~45 inches
___Vergence is the need for your eyes to move toward the nose when focusing. @ 45 inches, muscles are relaxed

Both of these factors greatly contribute to Computer Viewing Fatigue..

Basically.. Farther is better,  and @ 45" and beyond ,  fatigue is No greater or worse..


So... USING 45" as the optimal viewing distance..  We use the snell viewing angle equation based on the 1 arc minute detail constraint..  TO derive the optimal screen size based on 1080p resolution

45=x/(((1920/1080)^2+1)^1/2 * 1080 * tan(1/60))  , x

put that into wolfram, use degrees,   x = approximately 29 inches..

the optimum display screen size @ 45 inches viewing distance @ 1080p resolution



This 29inches takes into account all 3 things..

The maximum resolution discernible by your EYE @ 45 inches of distance

The resting point of Vergence

The resting point of Accommodation

[dante]

I'm so sorry tp4 ... But I think I'm turning into a askhole.

The more I read about the G3258 the more the nostalgia and underdog tones speak to me.  I'm going that route and will put the saved money into the better graphics card, SSD, and Monitor.

I can upgrade to a more powerful processor in the future - but the G3258 may be limited time tech - I don't want yet another regret of letting it pass by.

[tp4tissue]

I'm so sorry tp4 ... But I think I'm turning into a askhole.

The more I read about the G3258 the more the nostalgia and underdog tones speak to me.  I'm going that route and will put the saved money into the better graphics card, SSD, and Monitor.

I can upgrade to a more powerful processor in the future - but the G3258 may be limited time tech - I don't want yet another regret of letting it pass by.

you cannnn get a g3258..   if you're not playing BF4 or WatchDogs,  the g3258 overclocked is pretty solid for most games..

it is however no match for a quad core k series when it comes to more threaded apps, (if you don't use them) then the g3258..


The issue here is...  I've witnessed people do this alot in tech and keyboards.. so they buy an entry level, then they buy a mid level, then they buy something from the top..


What the hell is the point...   you might as well just buy the best one at the time, and be done with it..  it will last longer..


the G3258 is a good deal if you can get the microcenter bundle..

If you cannot get a microcenter bundle, from the performance/ dollar perspective it is IDENTICAL to any 4xxx K-series.

Which means.... if you Can afford the 4xxx K-series.. you're not actually saving any money by going with the G3258..

IF however, you CAN get the Microcenter bundle,  the g3258 is almost Twice as good in terms of price / performance   vs the 4xxx  K series.

[dante]

I don't care about BF4/Watchdogs.  LOL/Dota 2/Counterstrike/Team Fortress/L4D2 etc ... those are probably the most demanding games I'll run.  Remember I'm running this on Linux so some of the modern games just won't even run/run poorly regardless of the hardware

[tp4tissue]

I don't care about BF4/Watchdogs.  LOL/Dota 2/Counterstrike/Team Fortress/L4D2 etc ... those are probably the most demanding games I'll run.  Remember I'm running this on Linux so some of the modern games just won't even run/run poorly regardless of the hardware

If you're certain that you will not use the horse power..  then the 3258 is viable...

the TROUBLE IS..  intel is coming out with YET ANOTHER socket for Broad well .. they're gonna retire z97..

they might release 1 or 2 broadwell for z97, but it won't be the Refined version, it will be initial 14nm part..

so... z97 is more less a dead socket form the upgrade perspective..   and ddr4 is around the corner.. 


IF for you g3258 + mobo, is in excess of $200...  I really think you should get a 4xxx K series instead..

[low-fi]

750ti is quite a weak card for "gaming".

No, it is not. I'm not sure what you mean by "gaming" as a concept, but I've played games all my life and my 750 ti runs pretty much anything I throw at it at 1920x1200 resolution and high settings with a totally playable framerate. It is an excellent card for the money, ultra silent and doesn't demand a ridiculous amount of power.

[tp4tissue]

750 ti is def  MEdium, MEdium-HIgh, for 1920x1200..  it's equivalent of a 7950,