Diatec warns potential customers of Unicomp's MURRICAAAAAAN quality

[dante]

link

Because it is produced using the old mold, there is the case that there is a sink or burrs on the key cap.
There is also that there is a slight tilt key cap, but there is no defective because it is within the margin of error by the manufacturer defined.
The color is falling apart because you are reusing and runners on the base portion of the key cap.
Some sink is out mold is old cases, finish paint is not doing. ※ product of black stands out in particular.
Since the paint finish is not, some weld line is conspicuous.

Key cap has become a double structure can be removed. Since it can be removed easily and plucked with the fingers Nde if Hikiagere, it is possible to remove cleanly, such as sandpaper burrs.

Surface treatment deburring sandpaper No. 400, at No. 600, finish and clean finish at No. 800: For sandpaper hook. Let's done with care in a safe place, so that it does not breathe and dust will occur in the case of sandpaper hanging.
It is a trick that not too scraped up too deeply in # 400 is finished neatly. Please be careful to not to lose the key cap.

It's too bad Unicomp doesn't warn their customers of quality issues before the sale.

[paicrai]

AYYY LMAO

[Lurch]

 

[esoomenona]

Why don't they warn their own users about...







THE PING!?

[SpAmRaY]

Why don't they warn their own users about...







THE PING!?

I thought that was a feature when it came to BS boards?

[Puddsy]

how very japanese of them

[dorkvader]

I'm surprised they want 12,800 yen for it.

[Hyde]

Well Japanese value customer service and customer satisfaction A LOT, like their life and reputation depend on it.

By warning the customers ahead of time so the customers know what they're getting into.

Over here in North America we can sell it first then either:

1)  If you don't like it we'll issue a refund (But this creates upset customer).

2)  If the company is dodgy they'll just say "that's within the manufacturer specification and this is normal" and do nothing (And this creates VERY upset customers).

And Japanese people are trying to avoid 1) and 2) all together.

[fohat.digs]

Haters work very hard to find things to hate.

Unicomp keyboards are one of the greatest bargains to be found in the mechanical keyboard universe today (along with the CM Quickfire Rapid, if you insist on something svelte and modern).

Of course that is just my opinion.

How many manufactured plastic consumer items today are manufactured to the same QC standards as they were when Ronald Reagan was president? Nit-picking about whether contemporary Unicomp is as well-made as ancient IBM iron is ridiculous. If you want a really great car, do you buy a Rolls-Royce or a Hispano-Suiza? I doubt it. You probably drive a Lexus, or a Honda.

PS - the classic Unicomp Model M today costs 36% as much as the Model M in that 1992 PC Magazine article.

[esoomenona]

Why don't they warn their own users about...







THE PING!?

I thought that was a feature when it came to BS boards?

THE FILCO PING!!!

DON'T YOU HEAR YOU!? I'M NOT CRAZY. TELL ME YOU HEAR IT TOO!

[ConscienceDrop]

Haters work very hard to find things to hate.

Unicomp keyboards are one of the greatest bargains to be found in the mechanical keyboard universe today (along with the CM Quickfire Rapid, if you insist on something svelte and modern).

Of course that is just my opinion.

How many manufactured plastic consumer items today are manufactured to the same QC standards as they were when Ronald Reagan was president? Nit-picking about whether contemporary Unicomp is as well-made as ancient IBM iron is ridiculous. If you want a really great car, do you buy a Rolls-Royce or a Hispano-Suiza? I doubt it. You probably drive a Lexus, or a Honda.

PS - the classic Unicomp Model M today costs 36% as much as the Model M in that 1992 PC Magazine article.

they are still 80$usd+ shipping. if i got what appeared to be a practically unfinished product i would be disappointed. i would not riot outside unicomp HQ and i would not "hate" but i see nothing wrong in letting your customers know what they are getting into.

Edit: ^ filco ping definitely exists, but you have to push the key down and then lift your finger off so quickly and in such an unnatural motion i cant even believe anyone would discover and become annoyed with it if they were not told it was there.

[dante]

PS - the classic Unicomp Model M today costs 36% as much as the Model M in that 1992 PC Magazine article.

And it shows.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Well Japanese value customer service and customer satisfaction A LOT, like their life and reputation depend on it.

This is, after all, the country with trains where the seats get rotated around at the end of each journey so that they always face forwards …

[0100010]

Hmm, my Unicomp doesn't have those issues.  Even if it did, that nothing that a few seconds with some sandpaper or exacto couldn't fix.

[LouisHjelmslev]

Well, my recently purchased Unicomp does have some of the defects listed, but I still love it!
I think that if perfect key alignment and mold pulls are that important to you, it's best to stay away from Uni boards.
However if, as in my case, your eyes are fixed primarily at the monitor or reference book/pages, well, you can live with the lack of perfection. Don't get me wrong, between a perfectly constructed BS and a Unicomp, I'd prefer the former, but given what's available and within budget, I'll keep my Classic! Besides, I really like their customer service, so I don't regret one bit supporting such a company.

[tbc]

this does not surprise me at all.

when the package says 100g, they EXPECT 100g worth of food.  103 gets the product sent back and 101 is fair reason for a 'not so i trust you' look

[fohat.digs]

This thread is an embarrassment.

What a bunch of whining sissies.

If you want to buy a decades-old piece of equipment and take time and effort to restore, then do so.

Unicomp builds an excellent product and sells it at a price that is quite fair.

[dante]

This thread is an embarrassment.

What a bunch of whining sissies.

If this was a Keycool or Ducky they would get railroaded - but because it's a buckling spring keyboard Unicomp gets a free pass?

Unicomp makes a buckling spring keyboard - nobody else makes one - and you hate to see that go away - I get it!

But they should be called out.  There are a lot of people becoming interested in mechanical keyboards and the Unicomp may be their first board.  Do you really want it to be their first impression?

I'm a fan of buckling spring too - and that is why it angers me.  OK so you can't get your keycaps perfectly smooth on the bottom OK so you can't get your keycaps perfectly straight OK.  But how can you let the casing leave the factory like that?  How can you trust a company that would allow that?  It would make me question the electronics quality and whether or not the thing would catch fire in your home.  Or the case it self is made out of material that can make you sick.

These are just perceptions of out of box quality.

[fohat.digs]

How can you trust a company

We are talking about an American company producing a huge heavy keyboard containing more material and parts than most other mechanical keyboards on the market today, and selling them at a price that is roughly 2/3 the "going rate" for fresh, new, warranted, modern keyboards.

Add to that exceptional, friendly, responsive customer service and a wide range of spare and replacement parts, plus a total "repair service" that can be performed on any Model M, and you have a truly exceptional company.

I have a great deal of respect for Unicomp and very little respect for "Unicomp-bashers"

Just my opinion.

[tp4tissue]

This thread is an embarrassment.

What a bunch of whining sissies.

If you want to buy a decades-old piece of equipment and take time and effort to restore, then do so.

Unicomp builds an excellent product and sells it at a price that is quite fair.

It's even made in 'Murica...  it's stuffed full of so uber-many Eagles and Freedom.

[dante]

We are talking about an American company

STOP RIGHT THERE.  If it were a Chinese company would you be as forgiving?

producing a huge heavy keyboard containing more material and parts than most other mechanical keyboards on the market today, and selling them at a price that is roughly 2/3 the "going rate" for fresh, new, warranted, modern keyboards.

So do you think the issue is Unicomp is a victim of its own decision to low ball the competition?  In otherwords, Unicomp should have increased the prices to get the quality to modern spec?  I'm not talking about flashy LED's, NKRO, etc - just a board without visual imperfections.

Add to that exceptional, friendly, responsive customer service and a wide range of spare and replacement parts, plus a total "repair service" that can be performed on any Model M, and you have a truly exceptional company.

I never argued they didn't have great customer service.

I have a great deal of respect for Unicomp and very little respect for "Unicomp-bashers"

Not a Unicomp basher in the least - I WANT them to succeed.  I WANT them to read threads like this so maybe they will come out of hiding and communicate with the public.  The NPR article they did several years back gave the impression that things weren't so hot - so you'd think they would get off their dead asses and try to save themselves.  All they give an impression now is a company that is just trying to milk as many boards out of the existing tooling as they can before shutting the doors.

I hope when that day comes they will sell some of the tech to a company like Ducky, Diatec, Leopold  - someone who will actually do something with it!

I've never been a business owner but I'd imagine it is one of the scariest things anyone can be faced with - I don't get the lack of effort on Unicomp's part.  I'd be on Geekhack/Facebook/Twitter 24/7 trying to figure out what people want, getting reviews out there, putting up a more professional modern looking website, getting the defects out of the system, etc...

[jacobolus]

So do you think the issue is Unicomp is a victim of its own decision to low ball the competition?  In otherwords, Unicomp should have increased the prices to get the quality to modern spec?  I'm not talking about flashy LED's, NKRO, etc - just a board without visual imperfections.

No. Unicomp is a victim of having tons of cheap used Model Ms on the market. They’re competing in what’s now a niche market against a basically indestructible mass-market product (at least several million were produced) from 20–25 years ago.

The original Model M could earn enough to pay for its R&D costs because of those high volumes, and because it had the entire research, engineering, and production infrastructure of IBM behind it, and because it sold for a high price with hefty margins. Unicomp by contrast is a tiny company with much smaller margins, without the infrastructure required to engineer substantially different new products. They’ve been hanging on because they had IP rights and because they make a product people really like.

It’s relevant that they’re an American company, because manufacturing stuff like keyboards is much more expensive in the US than in China (both because wages are higher and because China now has a very sophisticated supply chain ecosystem that takes lots of friction out of the manufacturing process.) There’s a reason so much electronics (and other) manufacturing is now done in China.

[Oobly]

My 90's model M has the same issues as the Unicomp in the OP. I recently also bought a set of Unicomp keycaps including stems and there's no noticable difference between them and the originals except the old ones have yellowed very slightly with age.

[bazh]

that tilt keycap reminds me of BSP..

[BlueBär]

STOP RIGHT THERE.

Please calm down. Don't take everything so personal (both of you).

[Premonition]

How can you trust a company

We are talking about an American company producing a huge heavy keyboard containing more material and parts than most other mechanical keyboards on the market today, and selling them at a price that is roughly 2/3 the "going rate" for fresh, new, warranted, modern keyboards.

Add to that exceptional, friendly, responsive customer service and a wide range of spare and replacement parts, plus a total "repair service" that can be performed on any Model M, and you have a truly exceptional company.

I have a great deal of respect for Unicomp and very little respect for "Unicomp-bashers"

Just my opinion.

I mean that's unfair. It's American, sure, but that doesn't excuse it being very low quality (which dante's video definitely shows), and worse than something produced 30 years ago. You can have all the customer service you want, but nobody else would buy a dented product out of the box if there was any other alternative that wasn't 20/30 years old. You can't just label him as a 'basher' when he gives an honest opinion about the keyboard and backs it up with video evidence.

[fohat.digs]

I mean that's unfair.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I have owned, and in some cases dismantled and rebuilt from inside out, dozens of Model Ms of all ages, and I have bought from Unicomp on numerous occasions.

I stand by every word I said in precisely the way that I said it.

[Premonition]

I mean that's unfair.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I have owned, and in some cases dismantled and rebuilt from inside out, dozens of Model Ms of all ages, and I have bought from Unicomp on numerous occasions.

I stand by every word I said in precisely the way that I said it.

That was petty of you.

[terrpn]

I mean that's unfair.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I have owned, and in some cases dismantled and rebuilt from inside out, dozens of Model Ms of all ages, and I have bought from Unicomp on numerous occasions.

I stand by every word I said in precisely the way that I said it.

That was petty of you.

so its OK to criticize, pass judgment, but not to defend why some of us do not agree totally?

so if you don't like it then don't buy it

[dorkvader]

This thread is an embarrassment.

What a bunch of whining sissies.

Harry for president 2016.

I agree though. unlike most people, I care more about the functionality, longevity, repairability, etc than I do about the outward aesthetics.

Some extra flashing on the plastic where they should have thrown out old molds and didn't doesn't bother me and if it did, I'd just fix it myself and call it good.

[dantan]

This thread is an embarrassment.

What a bunch of whining sissies.

If you want to buy a decades-old piece of equipment and take time and effort to restore, then do so.

Unicomp builds an excellent product and sells it at a price that is quite fair.

It's even made in 'Murica...  it's stuffed full of so uber-many Eagles and Freedom.

I think that poster's political leanings really show. Only super patriotic Americans will accept poor quality just because something is made in their homeland.

[RED-404]

The only problem with my 2011 Unicomp 122 is a strange ISO'ish layout and a case that creaks and fits together like something from a dollar store. But it feels nice to type on and was cheap as hell. Still better build quality than than my Noppoo Choc Mini 2M.

As for US manufacturing, we still do quality extremely high precision scientific and electronic stuff just not a lot of quality mass produced consumer stuff. I can tell you we can't do big steel anymore, had to do some shopping around for work, and well, no-one will/can make a reactor vessel head in the USA we have to go to France, Spain, Germany, Russia, Japan or China to get something like that done.

Wait, did I just somehow compare a cheap keyboard to a reactor vessel head. Time to go to bed...

[False_Dmitry_II]

I have, several times, bought an entire set of keycaps from Unicomp to replace a Model M's keys. None of those times have any of these pictures of superfluous plastic shown up. Even if they did, it would be entirely irrelevant.

First off, I get some Japanese company doing this - I have seen this culture difference in other places. That's all it is though, a culture difference. They need super exacting specifics on anything not inspectable in person. However, none of this has any bearing on the rest of this conversation.

People are somehow, with a straight face, complaining about a very minor cosmetic issue when the price is not only a nominal value of 36% of the price in 1992, when volume was (very scientifically) mega-tons more; but also figuring in inflation (since I guess it wasn't) it is more like 21% of the original price. That's 1/5.

One-fifth the price and people are complaining about burrs which affect nothing at all? That's amazing to me.

Don't even try to also claim quality looks like Filco. If you do, then it also looks like Rosewill. Guess what? Unicomp keys are PBT dyesub which near as I can tell will never fade. Those MX keyboard makers? Thin ABS plastic with pad-printed easily wearing off lettering. Because Quality! Filco is also kind enough to double the price at least (IIRC) for this 'quality'.

The steel plate in the unicomps are still large and curved, with placement bonuses that entails, and still doubles as a self-defense weapon just as any Model M would.

[Elrick]

The steel plate in the unicomps are still large and curved, with placement bonuses that entails, and still doubles as a self-defense weapon just as any Model M would.

Making comparisons between different types of keyboards really gets the knives out here on Geekhack Central. You'll get differing opinions all the time hence why the knee-jerk reaction?

You'll get those that love to pour negativity upon your chosen keyboard but who the hell cares, as if some one's opinion is so staggeringly hurtful that you need to get all hot and bothered about it.  I still applaud those that still like using their Model-M's and F's that they are still willing to stand up and explain their reasons for owning them, even after all these years.

Usually it's the new people who might have never heard of IBM keyboards before voicing their concerns about quality issues.  I shall try an old method of trying to align an old IBM Model-M keyboard with a 1970's Muscle Car.  You may buy it as a rusty old heap but when you strip back the filth, grime and worn parts and furnish it with new paint and running train you've got a brilliant piece of American Elegance well worth keeping and using everyday.

[tp4tissue]

This thread is an embarrassment.

What a bunch of whining sissies.

If you want to buy a decades-old piece of equipment and take time and effort to restore, then do so.

Unicomp builds an excellent product and sells it at a price that is quite fair.

It's even made in 'Murica...  it's stuffed full of so uber-many Eagles and Freedom.

I think that poster's political leanings really show. Only super patriotic Americans will accept poor quality just because something is made in their homeland.

I will accept poor quality if it's made in 'Murica..   Because if 'Murica goes poof,  You'll all have to learn Chinese... Is that what you want... I didn't think so..

[jabar]

Unicomp quality control is not great. They're just covering for possible returns because of that fact.

[tp4tissue]

Unicomp quality control is not great. They're just covering for possible returns because of that fact.

who's covering?

[davkol]

Don't even try to also claim quality looks like Filco. If you do, then it also looks like Rosewill. Guess what? Unicomp keys are PBT dyesub which near as I can tell will never fade. Those MX keyboard makers? Thin ABS plastic with pad-printed easily wearing off lettering. Because Quality! Filco is also kind enough to double the price at least (IIRC) for this 'quality'.

PBT dyesubs don't fade? Ugh. PBT *does* shine after some years of heavy use. Dyesubs *do* change colors and eventually fade after many years.

MX keyboard makers? Like Cherry Corp. with their PBT or thick POM? Or Leopold? Or Deck? Or PLUM? Or Keycool?

[False_Dmitry_II]

Don't even try to also claim quality looks like Filco. If you do, then it also looks like Rosewill. Guess what? Unicomp keys are PBT dyesub which near as I can tell will never fade. Those MX keyboard makers? Thin ABS plastic with pad-printed easily wearing off lettering. Because Quality! Filco is also kind enough to double the price at least (IIRC) for this 'quality'.

PBT dyesubs don't fade? Ugh. PBT *does* shine after some years of heavy use. Dyesubs *do* change colors and eventually fade after many years.

MX keyboard makers? Like Cherry Corp. with their PBT or thick POM? Or Leopold? Or Deck? Or PLUM? Or Keycool?

Are you trying to tell me that dyesub on PBT is equivalent to pad-printing on ABS? Because it's not. I've not seen color changing/fading on any old IBM's in pictures or personally (and just like speed of shinyness on ABS, I would suspect that to have more to do with an individuals oil chemistry and the amount of cheetos left on the fingers during use than something inevitable or inherent). I have seen some amount of visible shine on IBM's before, however the amount of texture and feel of the keycap felt normal. When ABS gets shiny it feels slimy/slippery, which is not at all the same. At the very least the PBT dyesub will last much longer.


I am not a complete expert on MX, due to not being a super huge fan of it; however I am sure the ones I mentioned are exactly as I said. I've seen PBT dyesub on cherry PoS, and have dyed those keys before, but those also don't have a metal plate at all. As far as I know, Decks are more like $300, and even if that did come with PBT it wouldn't be dyesub. This is significantly more money. Any MX also has height-profiled keys which depend on which row they are on to have the correct height, something that buckling spring based keyboards do not care about.

[tbc]

that's just pbt hater talk.

fact of the matter is, pad printed abs will never last longer than dyesubbed pbt in normal usage.

[davkol]

Are you trying to tell me that dyesub on PBT is equivalent to pad-printing on ABS? Because it's not.

Ah, those fallacious arguments…

Filco isn't the only brand of keyboards with Cherry MX switches (and they have doubleshots now as well).

There's Cherry Corp. that still uses PBT or POM even on their cheaper keyboards (G80-3000LQCEU-2 costs under €60 and has thick POM caps), although they appear to be struggling with the changing demand almost as much as Unicomp, and abandoning old tooling . There's PLUM and a bunch of other Chinese companies (ha, how could I forget about Vortex?) that use PBT or sometimes POM. There's TG3 and Leopold. I'm not even familiar with some industrial stuff.

And for the record, pad printing can be *very* high quality with certain coatings.

I've not seen color changing/fading on any old IBM's in pictures or personally

I have a 1991 IBM Model M with blurry red/brown dyesub lettering on less used keys (numrow, ISO backslash) right here. (OTOH, I don't have good enough light to take decent pictures now.)

I have seen some amount of visible shine on IBM's before, however the amount of texture and feel of the keycap felt normal. When ABS gets shiny it feels slimy/slippery, which is not at all the same.

I have shiny PBT caps that feel sticky from five years of heavy use at a POS terminal here too.

I am not a complete expert on MX, due to not being a super huge fan of it; however I am sure the ones I mentioned are exactly as I said. I've seen PBT dyesub on cherry PoS, and have dyed those keys before, but those also don't have a metal plate at all. As far as I know, Decks are more like $300, and even if that did come with PBT it wouldn't be dyesub. This is significantly more money. Any MX also has height-profiled keys which depend on which row they are on to have the correct height, something that buckling spring based keyboards do not care about.

Non sequitur.

[Premonition]

Are you trying to tell me that dyesub on PBT is equivalent to pad-printing on ABS? Because it's not.

Ah, those fallacious arguments…

Filco isn't the only brand of keyboards with Cherry MX switches (and they have doubleshots now as well).

There's Cherry Corp. that still uses PBT or POM even on their cheaper keyboards (G80-3000LQCEU-2 costs under €60 and has thick POM caps), although they appear to be struggling with the changing demand almost as much as Unicomp, and abandoning old tooling . There's PLUM and a bunch of other Chinese companies (ha, how could I forget about Vortex?) that use PBT or sometimes POM. There's TG3 and Leopold. I'm not even familiar with some industrial stuff.

And for the record, pad printing can be *very* high quality with certain coatings.

I've not seen color changing/fading on any old IBM's in pictures or personally

I have a 1991 IBM Model M with blurry red/brown dyesub lettering on less used keys (numrow, ISO backslash) right here. (OTOH, I don't have good enough light to take decent pictures now.)

I have seen some amount of visible shine on IBM's before, however the amount of texture and feel of the keycap felt normal. When ABS gets shiny it feels slimy/slippery, which is not at all the same.

I have shiny PBT caps that feel sticky from five years of heavy use at a POS terminal here too.

I am not a complete expert on MX, due to not being a super huge fan of it; however I am sure the ones I mentioned are exactly as I said. I've seen PBT dyesub on cherry PoS, and have dyed those keys before, but those also don't have a metal plate at all. As far as I know, Decks are more like $300, and even if that did come with PBT it wouldn't be dyesub. This is significantly more money. Any MX also has height-profiled keys which depend on which row they are on to have the correct height, something that buckling spring based keyboards do not care about.

Non sequitur.

The voice of reason? Is that you I spy?

[Oobly]

Hmmm... Just thought I'd post an update here.

While fitting the new Unicomp keycaps to my customised Model M I noticed some of the stems are indeed "twisted". Out of the 63 I put on the board, 7 were cockeyed and had to be switched. Also, a number of the top parts of the keycaps had miscolouration or a small dye spot. And what's with the random stem colours?

Anyhow, I'm happy enough putting Unicomp parts on my old Model M (after all it's not exactly a precision machine, rather rattly and wobbly compared to my MX boards), they're relatively affordable, but their quality control is definitely NOT up to modern European standards. I'm more picky about what goes onto my customised MX board, though.


Anyhow, it seems in some companies that complacency and lack of innovation / continuing research and improvement has led to quality control being somewhat lacking when compared to equivalent European and Japanese products. Unicomp appears to be one of these. Some of the American car companies have had the same issue and it's led to rather a problem in "Motor City". At least the latest Corvette is one model that's headed back in the right direction. It's not an "American only" thing, though. I'd say Cherry have run foul of the same issue. Although the quality is still better than Unicomp, the latest batches of switches do have more issues than in the past ("scratchy" lower casings / sliders, some upper casings with "flashing" from molds interfering with keycap stems, etc. And no new product offerings despite long term feedback about things that could be improved, like a larger tactile bump on Browns for instance). The only "new" product is the clear "RGB" casing design and it's not much of an innovation, really, considering Matias introduced it years ago.