Please don't murder me. I've fallen in love with a rubber dome.

[_rubik]

And not a Topre dome either, I'm talking about the Microsoft Natural Elite. I have scoured for a mech board with matching ergo, but the only match I could find was the LZ Ergo and that STILL is pretty far off.

Does anyone know of a wave ergo mech, or at least something similar that is actually obtainable. I feel so dirty on this rubber dome, but it feels so right....

[dante]

Murder you? Never.

Maim or seriously injure maybe.

Type on what you enjoy typing on.  My favorite keyboard is a Dell KB-522 rubber dome.  The construction is crap, the legends are wearing off, but it has the perfect typing height, keycap profile/distance/stiffness/feel.  I can't explain it and I've desperately tried replicating this in a mechanical and wasn't successful.

I wasted 7 years of my life making my post office wealthy selling keyboards and it all came down to a rubber dome.

[brighenne]

Honestly, microsoft is really good at ergo boards. A coworker gave me a sculpt ergonomic set and the switches themselves are pretty bad, but I'll be damned if it's not super comfortable to type on.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A KB-522? O_O

Ouch.

(Unless maybe yours isn't a Logitech.)

[tp4tissue]

For never was a story of more woe than this of Juliet and her Romeo.

[Rodde]

Honestly, microsoft is really good at ergo boards. A coworker gave me a sculpt ergonomic set and the switches themselves are pretty bad, but I'll be damned if it's not super comfortable to type on.

Seconded. I've enjoyed pretty much every ergo microsoft board I've tried so far.

[OfTheWild]

Woudlnt tenting your ergodox accomplish the same thing?

[_rubik]

Woudlnt tenting your ergodox accomplish the same thing?

Yes a little, I guess that's the closest I'll get. But its also something about curve that makes it so appealing.

[DALExSNAIL]

I gotta agree here.

Office lady had one of these and we offered her a new KB while swapping out her PC, since the new tower didn't have PS/2. She was devastated, so I tried it out and it was great, much better than I expected. The domes were stiff and felt like crap, but the angle your hands sit at and the location of the keys was great. She ended up trashing it for some newer bluetooth version, but i tried that as well and it was meh.

[tp4tissue]

Woudlnt tenting your ergodox accomplish the same thing?

Yes a little, I guess that's the closest I'll get. But its also something about curve that makes it so appealing.

what you need is m0ar tenting..

55 Degrees.. Minimum..   put a mug under the ergodox and try it out.

[dante]

A KB-522? O_O

Ouch.

(Unless maybe yours isn't a Logitech.)

As was previously stated it is a Dell.

Whenever I get a new Mechanical keyboard in it rarely lasts more than 30 seconds before being put back in the box and the Dell getting plugged back in.

[klennkellon]

I have one of the later versions (ergo-4000)

Very nice split design but the rubber domes are ****ty; they're too stiff and not tactile enough. Also the spacebar is incredibly clacky.

The version OP is talking about is probably better, though.

[davkol]

A KB-522? O_O

Ouch.

(Unless maybe yours isn't a Logitech.)

As was previously stated it is a Dell.

Dell doesn't make keyboards (AFAIK). Neither did Microsoft  for a long time (although I'm not sure about the SideWinder series… and stuff like current Sculpt/Wedge).

Logitech was OEM for Dell at some point, like ALPS, Silitek, NMB etc.

I can't remember, who made the aforementioned MS Natural Elite, but I'm sure the original MS Natural was Key Tronic… with the distinctly stiff domes. ;_;

[pingmaster]

For never was a story of more woe than this of Juliet and her Romeo.

So the mechanical keyboard faked its death, was found by the rubber domes, which also preceded to blow is capacitors. Then the mechanical keyboard released the magic smoke knowing the rubber dome keyboard died.

Look what misery you caused!!!!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I got my KB522 with an OptiPlex, so I class it as a Dell OptiPlex keyboard.

What I class as "Low-profile 1" OptiPlex keyboards seem to have been sourced from three OEMs instead of the usual two. NMB are gone, as they left the keyboard market, but Silitek are still a source, in this case with the SK-8175. The other two are L30U (I don't know who makes the L* keyboards) and the only one I've used, KB1421, from another unknown OEM. (The current OEMs we see in Britain are Silitek and Primax, though I've not officially verified the second OEM for "Low-profile 3".)

The only example of the multimedia version of the "Low-profile 1" style that I've seen is mine, the KB522, OEMed by Logitech. It's got horrible stiff, mushy keys — nothing like as smooth and precise-feeling as the KB1421. Mine's still virtually NIB — disassembled and photographed, but never used as a keyboard.

Yours could be from another OEM. I know of one multimedia design with two OEMs, but they're not something I see a lot of, so I don't have the same level of access to them for inspection.

[dante]

Hmm... I will give you the Model/Part # info tomorrow to compare notes.

I think it's fabulous!  Actually I had the opposite reaction to you.  I didn't think my KB522 was all that stiff and it had a nice smooth tactile bump; the KB1421 while smooth and quiet had a bit stiffer action.

I've been using my KB522 for two years now and contrary to what many state it has not failed me.  When I compare the most used keys against the least I don't feel a significant amount of difference either.  It is also very quiet.  Matias Quiet-Rattle switches wish they could be this silent.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Mine's here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Dell_KB522

[tp4tissue]

For never was a story of more woe than this of Juliet and her Romeo.

So the mechanical keyboard faked its death, was found by the rubber domes, which also preceded to blow is capacitors. Then the mechanical keyboard released the magic smoke knowing the rubber dome keyboard died.

Look what misery you caused!!!!

Fantastic writeup..

[Budman]

Type on what you enjoy typing on.  My favorite keyboard is a Dell KB-522 rubber dome. 

I think it is safe to say that over the past 30 years DELL has made, by far, the best OEM keyboards. The ones included with PC purchase. They have had even a few cult-status hits like; the AT101W series with ALPS switches, the older Taiwan Quietkey RT7D5JTW, the widely popular simplistic looking SK-8115/8135 that even gamers were choosing and the 212B I've also seen have it's followers.

( I used the Taiwan Quietkey daily for 6 years, and BEFORE that one I daily drove the SK-8115 for 3-4 years that came with my new Optiplex at the time and even gamed on. I just happened to get the 8115 before it became well known. The Quietkey I got new on ebay for cheap as I wanted to try it)

Just last year we ordered a large amount of Optiplex PC's for a company I was working with and not thinking of it until I finally realized one day "this is actually a nice comfortable and good feeling keyboard that I am flying on". It was some Dell scissor switch keyboard included with the PC's (can't remember the model number)

Dell seems to take a little more care in getting their keyboards made and good design. I know they've had some junk as well, but overall it seems buying a Dell PC you are also getting a good keyboard. I am interested in trying out that 522 now though I know it won't replace my current KB of choice but always nice to have it in memory bank incase this one dies.

[ander]

And not a Topre dome either, I'm talking about the Microsoft Natural Elite...

Before I rediscovered MKs, MS Naturals were all I used. In addition to the comfortable hand position, I found them quick, responsive, and highly consistent between keys. I thought they were terrific.

That is, for about a month. Then their switches started going flat, like a bunch of little flat tires. I'd struggle along with one for three or four months, convincing myself it wasn't so bad. Then I'd type on a new one somewhere and have to admit I'd worn out another one. At any given time I usually had a few worn-out ones in the closet, which I'd get out and try every now and then just to be sure I wasn't being overly picky. I wasn't.

So that's the thing. If only MS Naturals could keep their crisp original feeling, I think they'd be ideal. But they don't. They go flat and icky and make typing a chore.

Guess it's obvious, but this happens because they're not mechanical. And enough people like them, and keep buying them over and over, that Microsoft has no motivation to make them last longer. Funny how that works, isn't it?

[rich1051414]

I have an embarrassing love affair with a dell sk-8110 keyboard. The rubber domes on it has the perfect about of snap and tactility... but then you bottom out and feel the mush. However, I don't know what it is with that one keyboard, but I have owned mine now for over 10 years, and I still pull it out from time to time. It was OEM with a Dell clamshell Pentium 4 pc WAY back when...

Edit: Holy crap Budman... you found the same hidden gem? I thought I was the only one... 

[Daniel Beardsmore]

So that's the thing. If only MS Naturals could keep their crisp original feeling, I think they'd be ideal. But they don't. They go flat and icky and make typing a chore.

Rubber degradation that fast?

It would be nice to have a clear understanding of how Topre's rubber changes with age.

Some rubber goes stiff (more tactile, but increasingly difficult to type on), while other rubber goes limp and loses its tactility entirely in the end.

Failure within a month though … I'd expect one to get a few years out of the rubber before it starts to get bad, and with Topre, one would like to imagine for the price that the rubber is carefully selected M&S (or S&M)-grade rubber that will last a long time.

Having never actually used a rubber-based keyboard from new for any length of time, I've never had this experience. The nearest I got is my BTC 5149, which at 23 years old is too stiff to use, but in the seven years or so of continuous use it got, it always seemed fine, but then I didn't own it from new (ex-demo PC). I did buy a brand-new scissor switch keyboard, and the rubber in that was always iffy, and has that crunchy, rotten feel that you often get from the little scissor switch domes.

[typo]

Actually, Malvolio TP. Funny thing was I was going to say a Topre ? LOL. Let's settle this once and for all. "Cup rubber" is read as "rubber dome". It just so happens that some, or one at least of the rubber domes separate the men from the boys. At least ergonomic should please you TP, no? As with the Topre it is a far cry from an Ergodox or even Kinesis of course. The OP has something to look up to at least. Personally, and I most certainly know how to use it my WPM plummets on split and tented boards.

Actually, per above I do think Realforce and HHKB etc. take like a month or two to break in nice. After that they tend to maintain the same feel for decades. Forget 50-70 Million keystrokes. A person is unlikely to hit a single key 10 Million times in their lifetime. That is just marketing hype. No doubt though that good true mechanical switches do last longer than capacitive or membrane. It is pointless for our usage though. The worst of the $5 domes will dry out and crack in 2 years or less!

[_rubik]

I love how this thread turned into MS rubber dome confessions. Looks like until I find myself and lz ergo, I'll just have to print some dox tents.

[justinmtype]

Wife swears by them.

[ander]

Besides, dude, it's not as though we were your family and we had to kill you because you married the RD and disgraced us. (It's hard to believe people are still doing that kind of thing here in the 21st century, when we have everything we ever wanted except the little bubble cars, which should be along any time now).

I have an embarrassing love affair with a dell sk-8110 keyboard...

Dude, you really need to get out more! If you can't, at least get one of these, huh?:





Otherwise you may find you have a bunch of 60% keyboards running around.  :?D

So that's the thing. If only MS Naturals could keep their crisp original feeling, I think they'd be ideal. But they don't. They go flat and icky and make typing a chore.

Rubber degradation that fast? ... It would be nice to have a clear understanding of how Topre's rubber changes with age... Some rubber goes stiff (more tactile, but increasingly difficult to type on), while other rubber goes limp and loses its tactility entirely in the end... Failure within a month though … I'd expect one to get a few years out of the rubber before it starts to get bad, and with Topre, one would like to imagine for the price that the rubber is carefully selected M&S (or S&M)-grade rubber that will last a long time.

Maybe you didn't notice, but I was referring to MS Natural Keebs there, not Topres. And yes, I went through dozens—dozens, I tell you—of MSNKs, each lasting only 2–3 months (I type a lot) before I couldn't stand them anymore, and ran out and bought... another MSNK. I imagine lots of people are still doing this.

I'm not one to point fingers ("point fingers", ha, get it?) but it wouldn't surprise me at all if MS deliberately designed a unique keeb—not merely split, but with distinctive vertical contours, and key shapes and placement, and even sexy looking—they knew people would fall in love with, get addicted to, then find they had to replace regularly. It's called planned obsolescence.

I've used my couple of Topre boards quite a bit now, but they show no signs of wearing out. Neither does my Unicomp RD (p/n 96U1114), or even my 1987 IBM Model 00 Quiet Touch. RDs can be built to stand up to use. Not like MKs, but a lot better than MSNKs. And certainly MS has the engineering know-how to do this, if they wanted to. Which is why I'm guessing they don't.

Wife swears by them.

If she has to be right by them, at least she's not swearing about them all the time, like mine is. Count your blessings.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

In fact, I'm not even going to waste my time responding to that. Of course I noticed, idiot.

[typo]

I have worn out 2 Realforce. At that time I was typing 14-16 hours a day for 7+ years. Plus my eating habits did not help to be fair. I hope in the 21st century we all agree they are a rubber dome but with a capacitive contact. Instead of membrane. There is no point in arguing this for the millionth time. They are just a very good rubber dome. If you look around at my recent posts, IMO I have found a nicer rubber dome. Still, I vastly prefer mechanical.

[dante]

Even though I could potentially be clinically diagnosed as having OCD I'm happy that I'm not as OCD as some of you.  I've typed on Rubber Domes for the majority of my life from all different OEM's and have never, NEVER worn one out including the Microsoft Ergo.

Either some of you are outright hammer time fisting with some Remo Williams finger boarding these things or my hands are not sensitive enough to detect changes over time.

I'm not calling you liars I just must not be as hyper sensitive as some of you.

[jackalopephoto]

A KB-522? O_O

Ouch.

(Unless maybe yours isn't a Logitech.)

I disagree. They went to the effort of creating a split layout, but left the keys staggered. So your left hand is angled, but the keys are still poorly aligned

[daerid]

I still want to find an original one of these in the box. Still my favorite keyboard to this day. Yes, it's RD, but one of the best feeling boards I've ever used.