New car purchase (Mazda 3 or Civic LX)

[Jocelyn]

We're getting a new car and trying to decide between a Mazda 3 and a Honda Civic LX sedan. We've thought about some other makes/models (Toyota, Kia, Nissan, etc.), but would really like something with manual transmission and everything else is only in stock in automatic. We plan on leasing one of these two tomorrow or Tuesday, so if anyone has any feedback in the meantime, I'd really appreciate it.

[baldgye]

I don't know anything about the Honda but the Mazda 3 from what I've heard is a pretty great car, and prop's for going manual, I know that's something not most Americans arnt even capable of driving

[oTurtlez]

Mazda 3 for sure. Never was a fan of civic's. Terrible stigma as well. That being said however, the civic is a great car reliability wise and will surely be fuel efficient, as will the Mazda, but if you want something sportier that you can zip around in on the weekends as well as drive responsibly and safely while achieving a decent MPG as well, that's where the baseline Mazda will take the cake.

[iri]

would really like something with manual transmission

did you take America's Five Years Manual Transmission Driving Course?

[calavera]

For proven resale value as well as reliability, you can't go wrong with Civic. LX doesn't have vtec does it? It's mighty fun driving a manual honda though

[kenmai9]

Civic
-a civic driver

[tjcaustin]

Mazda3
-former mazda3 driver

Serious, the new one (is it out yet?) is awesome)

Actually, if you can find a manual anything new hyundai or kia is worthwhile.

[reaper]

I just bought a Civic Coupe EX 3 months ago (end of March) and it's been great!  At the time, I'd considered the Mazda 3 as well but went with the Civic based on my previous experience with the brand.  My previous car was a Honda, wife also has a Honda ('09 Fit Sport).  They've really improved it over the 2012 model which btw, has some of the worse reviews ever for Hondas. lol


You can't go wrong with either one tho. 

[oTurtlez]

For proven resale value as well as reliability, you can't go wrong with Civic. LX doesn't have vtec does it? It's mighty fun driving a manual honda though

The LX is the most basic model AFAIK. The ONLY civic worth investing in IMO is the Si, and even then, it'd have to be a hatch, which they don't make anymore.

EDIT: Forgot about the DX. And almost all Honda Civic engines recently, and all Honda Civic engines in this current generation employ VTEC. Some use it for fuel economy, thus it's tuned to engage at 2400RPM ish as an eco-boost kind of system, while the Si employs it for performance around 5000RPM.

[reaper]

The DX model is gone from the line-up.  The base model is now the LX (link).

[eth0s]

Manual transmission?  Really? Last year I finally got rid of a car with manual transmission that I had for eight years.  Eight LONG years of manual transmission shifting.  Start.  Shift up gears 1 through 5, go, shift back down 5-1, stop.  Start, shift 1-2-3, traffic, slow, shift 3-2-1, stop.  Shift, go, shift, stop, shift, shift, shift.  It sucks.  On the highway at 80 mph, it's okay.  In city traffic, it's a nightmare.  Do not get a manual transmission.  My recommendation instead is to get the Honda CR-V AWD EXL (but do not get the Honda Navigation package - save the money, 'cuz Honda's Nav system sux - just use your smart phone.)  CR-V costs like $4K more than a civic, but it's a much better option, especially for a couple.  It has 70 cu. ft. of cargo space, leather seats, Econ button for better gas mileage, and better point-of-view perspective than a tiny civic because you are much higher off the ground.  Also it's bigger and safer and has front and side airbags.  If you want to go racing around the streets, you should get the Toyota GT 86, or w/e it's called.  But why do that?  You will either get traffic tickets or into an accident.  Get the civilized CR-V, put on the A/C, turn up the USB ipod tunes, engage the cruise control, and ride around in comfort and sophistication.

[Leslieann]

The Honda will be more reliable beyond 200k (possibly), but odds are, you don't really care about that.
From a driving perspective, Mazda. The 3 is supposed to be a fantastic driving car (as are most Mazdas).

The Civic will also more than likely have a higher insurance payment because of all the ricers messing with them over the years. Civic has one of the highest rates for small cars. Subaru has the same problem, I insured a slightly older sports edition BMW 3 series and a Miata for less than what I paid on my Subaru wagon due to all of the people messing around with Subaru. 

I do agree with Eth0s about the CR-V, though. While I would get the Mazda, if I was to get a Honda, I would get the CR-V instead of the Civic. They hold their value better for a reason. I don't agree that you will get into accidents or tickets having fun though, just depends on how, where and your perception of fun.

[alaricljs]

For a lease none of it really matters.  Go for looks, comfort, features, whichever you enjoy test driving more.

[mmmty]

Zoom Zoom!! I'm getting 36.5 mpg with my Mazda 3 

[sth]

new cars? will you just give me a stack of 100 dollar bills so i can burn them in front of you?

[jwaz]

new cars? will you just give me a stack of 100 dollar bills so i can burn them in front of you?

where else would you get dat smell? the air freshner just doesn't have the authenticity

[demik]

STi

[tjcaustin]

STi

Dat logic

(serious talk)

Also, for closer to civic/mazda3 price range, Ford Fiesta/Focus ST

[eth0s]

STi

I just looked this up.  lol.   A 400 h.p. Honda Civic!  I'm sure that the price is proportional with the h.p.  So, I still I think a Toyota Scion FR-S is a better buy, since it's the best value in sports cars right now, at $26K.  If you feel some need to speed around the streets, and act like a menace, that is.

[demik]

STi

I just looked this up.  lol.   A 400 h.p. Honda Civic!  I'm sure that the price is proportional with the h.p.  So, I still I think a Toyota Scion FR-S is a better buy, since it's the best value in sports cars right now, at $26K.  If you feel some need to speed around the streets, and act like a menace, that is.

STi > life

and if going with the fr-s, i'd get the br z for that beautiful subbie blue.

[oTurtlez]

STi

I just looked this up.  lol.   A 400 h.p. Honda Civic!  I'm sure that the price is proportional with the h.p.  So, I still I think a Toyota Scion FR-S is a better buy, since it's the best value in sports cars right now, at $26K.  If you feel some need to speed around the streets, and act like a menace, that is.

STi > life

and if going with the fr-s, i'd get the br z for that beautiful subbie blue.

STi > WRX > Life.

Agreed on the scooby blue. Love that color with a passion. Pair it with the rally yellow details on their rally cars and omg.

[tjcaustin]

Forget all the other suggestions:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36603.msg971560#msg971560

[SidusNare]

prop's for going manual, I know that's something not most Americans arnt even capable of driving

Ive never owned an automatic, and my sister just bought a manual Subaru Legend. --An american

[boost]

Hyundai genesis

[Luke]

Off-Topic: I can't believe the amount of people in America that learn to drive in an automatic (Next to nobody does in the UK), if you can't drive a manual then sorry but you can't drive

On-Topic: My Mom and Dad have had many different cars while I was growing up and I can always remember them having a Honda Accord that was absolutely packed with features which worked far better than any of the other cars they have owned(Lexus, BMW, Range Rover, etc.) and for a much cheaper price. So +1 for Honda on the Technology/Gadget front IMO

I on the other hand own a 1980's Camper Van so anything else would feel like luxury )

[iri]

Off-Topic: I can't believe the amount of people in America that learn to drive in an automatic (Next to nobody does in the UK), if you can't drive a manual then sorry but you can't drive

if you can change gears with your left hand you must be some sort of a ninja

[baldgye]

Manual transmission?  Really? Last year I finally got rid of a car with manual transmission that I had for eight years.  Eight LONG years of manual transmission shifting.  Start.  Shift up gears 1 through 5, go, shift back down 5-1, stop.  Start, shift 1-2-3, traffic, slow, shift 3-2-1, stop.  Shift, go, shift, stop, shift, shift, shift.  It sucks.  On the highway at 80 mph, it's okay.  In city traffic, it's a nightmare.  Do not get a manual transmission.  My recommendation instead is to get the Honda CR-V AWD EXL (but do not get the Honda Navigation package - save the money, 'cuz Honda's Nav system sux - just use your smart phone.)  CR-V costs like $4K more than a civic, but it's a much better option, especially for a couple.  It has 70 cu. ft. of cargo space, leather seats, Econ button for better gas mileage, and better point-of-view perspective than a tiny civic because you are much higher off the ground.  Also it's bigger and safer and has front and side airbags.  If you want to go racing around the streets, you should get the Toyota GT 86, or w/e it's called.  But why do that?  You will either get traffic tickets or into an accident.  Get the civilized CR-V, put on the A/C, turn up the USB ipod tunes, engage the cruise control, and ride around in comfort and sophistication.

LOOOOOOLLLLLL

[kmiller8]

I just bought a Civic Coupe EX 3 months ago (end of March) and it's been great!  At the time, I'd considered the Mazda 3 as well but went with the Civic based on my previous experience with the brand.  My previous car was a Honda, wife also has a Honda ('09 Fit Sport).  They've really improved it over the 2012 model which btw, has some of the worse reviews ever for Hondas. lol


You can't go wrong with either one tho. 

#CivicLife

[esoomenona]

Why do you downshift? You're just putting extra strain on your engine and transmission. Put it in neutral and brake. Brakes are easily replaceable.

[jdcarpe]

Why do you downshift? You're just putting extra strain on your engine and transmission. Put it in neutral and brake. Brakes are easily replaceable.

Engine braking.

[esoomenona]

I know what its called, but there's no need to. Especially in a small car. Give yourself enough distance to brake properly.

[baldgye]

have to say on my drives to work I barely ever touch the break (unless I come to a round about or something) and just use the gears to slow me down, so much easier.
Not sure why you'd ever recommend an auto over a manual, unless you just constantly drove on motorways...

[Luke]

Why do you downshift? You're just putting extra strain on your engine and transmission. Put it in neutral and brake. Brakes are easily replaceable.

Try doing that with a classic car, if you don't use your gears to slow you down you would be using the back ends of the car in front of you 

But I do get what you're saying about cost, they teach you to drive as you describe now because of the effectiveness of new brakes

[alaricljs]

I know what its called, but there's no need to. Especially in a small car. Give yourself enough distance to brake properly.

That is proper braking.  I also down shift in my automatic rather than ride the brakes down a hill. 

[Leslieann]

I know what its called, but there's no need to. Especially in a small car. Give yourself enough distance to brake properly.

Years ago it was done because the brakes stunk, then it got to where it was sort of pointless as brakes got better, but we still had carburetors.

Today, it's actually better to downshift.
Unlike on carburetors, where even when you engine brake it used gas, on today's fuel injected cars, during engine braking, the fuel system actually can stop all fuel to the engine.  By just braking normally, you are wasting gas as the engine will just idle down and at the same time wear your brakes down. If you rev match, the wear and tear on today's clutch systems will not make any noticeable difference in the lifespan of it.  Older clutch systems yes, but not modern ones. Bearings are better, hydraulics are better, friction material is better...

If it's a new car, barring abuse, unless it's a super car or you plan to keep it for 10 years, the system should easily outlast your ownership of it. May as well save the brakes and the gas.

[esoomenona]

My car is 14 years old. I hope it lasts me at least another 6.

[baldgye]

My car is 14 years old. I hope it lasts me at least another 6.

why?

[SpAmRaY]

My car is 14 years old. I hope it lasts me at least another 6.

why?

Money in the bank!

I'm sure its paid for and the instance isn't so bad.

New car = more Insurance + car payment

That's my working theory.

[esoomenona]

^

Also, because it's a great car, and if it will last, why not just let it go the distance? No point in fixing things that aren't broken.

[Topre]

have to say on my drives to work I barely ever touch the break (unless I come to a round about or something) and just use the gears to slow me down, so much easier.
Not sure why you'd ever recommend an auto over a manual, unless you just constantly drove on motorways...

Are you recommending a manual for cities? I honestly never heard anyone say that before, maybe it's an American or New Yorker thing to prefer auto's for cities. I use to drive around the city using paddle shifters, and even those got really annoying. I can't imagine myself using a tradition manual car set up for a city. On highways where traffic is moving, it's a different story and manuals are more fun to drive.

[baldgye]

My car is 14 years old. I hope it lasts me at least another 6.

why?

Money in the bank!

I'm sure its paid for and the instance isn't so bad.

New car = more Insurance + car payment

That's my working theory.

old car more problems?

I've no problem with looking after a car and making it last, but upgrading is also good lol

[SpAmRaY]

My car is 14 years old. I hope it lasts me at least another 6.

why?

Money in the bank!

I'm sure its paid for and the instance isn't so bad.

New car = more Insurance + car payment

That's my working theory.

old car more problems?

I've no problem with looking after a car and making it last, but upgrading is also good lol

That's why we have one new and one old! Haha.

[esoomenona]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

[demik]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

[esoomenona]

This is true... But I drive a stock 2000 Civic Si. Perfect.

[esoomenona]

Also, it seems that's a California thing. I don't see anything like that here in Houston, or other cities.

[Topre]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

Is there a reason that I don't understand of why people do this? I am 18 and I never had the idea to modify my car to make it obnoxiously loud or looking like it's been modified. Does louder cars not create a more uncomfortable ride because of the noise? I understand if you want to hear the engine while racing or something, but no need for that sound while driving at 15 to 40 miles per hour. Along with some modified cars which I would assume people would put some stupidly stiff suspensions. Then there is also lowered cars (not air bag lowered), isn't it really dam annoying to drive over speedbumps and out of driveways? In my opinion, modified cars makes me think the person just can't afford a better car and believes that more sound means more power.

[sth]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

yeah except the problem of them being the target of theft  more than pretty much any other car haha

[baldgye]

have to say on my drives to work I barely ever touch the break (unless I come to a round about or something) and just use the gears to slow me down, so much easier.
Not sure why you'd ever recommend an auto over a manual, unless you just constantly drove on motorways...

Are you recommending a manual for cities? I honestly never heard anyone say that before, maybe it's an American or New Yorker thing to prefer auto's for cities. I use to drive around the city using paddle shifters, and even those got really annoying. I can't imagine myself using a tradition manual car set up for a city. On highways where traffic is moving, it's a different story and manuals are more fun to drive.

I recommend manuals over auto's for any kind of driving really, its just more enjoyable to drive a manual... I've never driven in the US so I've no idea what the roads are like, but in the UK we have bends and corners... dull as **** to drive in an auto

[esoomenona]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

yeah except the problem of them being the target of theft  more than pretty much any other car haha

Yeah, that is tough. I've had to take many measures to ensure people don't get away with my car...

[Topre]

have to say on my drives to work I barely ever touch the break (unless I come to a round about or something) and just use the gears to slow me down, so much easier.
Not sure why you'd ever recommend an auto over a manual, unless you just constantly drove on motorways...

Are you recommending a manual for cities? I honestly never heard anyone say that before, maybe it's an American or New Yorker thing to prefer auto's for cities. I use to drive around the city using paddle shifters, and even those got really annoying. I can't imagine myself using a tradition manual car set up for a city. On highways where traffic is moving, it's a different story and manuals are more fun to drive.

I recommend manuals over auto's for any kind of driving really, its just more enjoyable to drive a manual... I've never driven in the US so I've no idea what the roads are like, but in the UK we have bends and corners... dull as **** to drive in an auto

I totally understand driving a manual at a road where there isn't many people. Do you, or would you drive a manual in a city like London and recommend it? I leave my car in auto until I hit the highways, then it's either cruise control or manual.

[esoomenona]

The only city you shouldn't drive a manual in, especially if you don't know how to drive one well enough, is San Francisco.

[Leslieann]

have to say on my drives to work I barely ever touch the break (unless I come to a round about or something) and just use the gears to slow me down, so much easier.
Not sure why you'd ever recommend an auto over a manual, unless you just constantly drove on motorways...

Cities clogged by traffic prefer autos.
You can slow down all you want with a manual, but in stop and go traffic, they are just punishment. Commutes in So. Cal. can take 2 hours or more, and average 10mph or less. Not touching the brake isn't an option and leaving a gap so you can keep rolling doesn't work. Leave a gap of 10 feet and you can bet money that someone will pull into it. Besides, you can be stopped for several minutes at a time, rolling won't help. If there is an accident, it can be hours of this to get past it. On longer commutes where an accident occurs, you may as well just go stay in a hotel because by the time you get home, eat and shower, it's time to go back to work.

One free way down there is called "The Parking Lot", they don't even bother reporting slow traffic on it, they report when it's moving.

My car is 14 years old. I hope it lasts me at least another 6.

why?

My favorite cars were a 20 year old BMW and a 35 year old pickup.

I'm sorry, but new cars aren't all they're cracked up to be..
Yes, they run better (usually), better mileage (not always), more reliable (absolutely), but what you spend on a month in payments, is less than I spend in a year on maintenance and probably insurance too. Plus, they all tend to look alike, and often feel like driving a video game (no feel of the road), too many gadgets...  Blah. Most of the cars I have owned, including the BMW didn't even have cup holders, unless you count the passenger. It's a car, not an entertainment center. The right car IS the entertainment.

Give me 60k to spend on a car today and I might buy a Hyundai  (for practicality) or Mx5 (for fun), the rest would go towards something older, and I guarantee, the older car would get more miles on it than the new one.

Older cars have class and style all their own.

The only city you shouldn't drive a manual in, especially if you don't know how to drive one well enough, is San Francisco.

You haven't driven in So. Cal. then.

[demik]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

Is there a reason that I don't understand of why people do this? I am 18 and I never had the idea to modify my car to make it obnoxiously loud or looking like it's been modified. Does louder cars not create a more uncomfortable ride because of the noise? I understand if you want to hear the engine while racing or something, but no need for that sound while driving at 15 to 40 miles per hour. Along with some modified cars which I would assume people would put some stupidly stiff suspensions. Then there is also lowered cars (not air bag lowered), isn't it really dam annoying to drive over speedbumps and out of driveways? In my opinion, modified cars makes me think the person just can't afford a better car and believes that more sound means more power.

this owner would disagree.


and it's the same reason why a lot of people do a lot of stuff.

they like it. they think it looks cool. it isn't for everybody of course.

[Topre]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

Is there a reason that I don't understand of why people do this? I am 18 and I never had the idea to modify my car to make it obnoxiously loud or looking like it's been modified. Does louder cars not create a more uncomfortable ride because of the noise? I understand if you want to hear the engine while racing or something, but no need for that sound while driving at 15 to 40 miles per hour. Along with some modified cars which I would assume people would put some stupidly stiff suspensions. Then there is also lowered cars (not air bag lowered), isn't it really dam annoying to drive over speedbumps and out of driveways? In my opinion, modified cars makes me think the person just can't afford a better car and believes that more sound means more power.

the same reason why people put clickclacks on their boards that serve no purpose other than looks. or any keycap really.

because they like it.

Keycaps are for looks, and it doesn't disturb the person next to you unless if they choose to stare at your keyboard. However when some idiot comes driving by at 15 miles per hour in the city, you have no way to mute him. Some people need to sleep. Then on the highway you are cruising at around the speed limit and the person drives at the same speed, no way to mute him unless if you drive far away from him. That means slowing down until he gets far or speeding up and getting away from that person. I just want to leave my car in cruise control. The same for motorcycles too. There is no need for such a loud exhaust while travelling at speeds that should not even be putting a car close to the limits.

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

Is there a reason that I don't understand of why people do this? I am 18 and I never had the idea to modify my car to make it obnoxiously loud or looking like it's been modified. Does louder cars not create a more uncomfortable ride because of the noise? I understand if you want to hear the engine while racing or something, but no need for that sound while driving at 15 to 40 miles per hour. Along with some modified cars which I would assume people would put some stupidly stiff suspensions. Then there is also lowered cars (not air bag lowered), isn't it really dam annoying to drive over speedbumps and out of driveways? In my opinion, modified cars makes me think the person just can't afford a better car and believes that more sound means more power.

Show Image

this owner would disagree.


and it's the same reason why a lot of people do a lot of stuff.

they like it. they think it looks cool. it isn't for everybody of course.

Sports and supercars can be almost silent while driving. I totally understand why a car would be making noise if the driver is trying to accelerate as much as possible. Cursing with such a powerful car will be close to silent if it is in the right gear and not close to it's top speed. The Bugatti Veyron is a great example of a vehicle with power but not much sound. If you ever get a chance to drive one, you would be amazed by it. Too bad Volkswagen decides that most people are too poor to be able to buy a new Bugatti. It makes no sense that even if I was to be able to afford a new Boeing 737 in cash, I can still be considered too poor to be able to own a new Bugatti Veyron. They want to only sell it to people that are worth at least $500 million.

[demik]

dude im not going to argue with you other people's choices of what they do to their car.

it's all personal choice, that's the answer to your original question.

[Topre]

dude im not going to argue with you other people's choices of what they do to their car.

it's all personal choice, that's the answer to your original question.

I'm not trying to argue about people's choice of their car, I'm trying to figure out why people must try to wake me up when I'm trying to sleep. Some cars come out of no where on the highway and just speeds pass and you don't hear the noise until after they pass you, which can be scary and in some cases very scary when you have a heart condition when considering the volume of their exhaust.

[esoomenona]

I'm going to call you Trollpre from now on.

[demik]

dude im not going to argue with you other people's choices of what they do to their car.

it's all personal choice, that's the answer to your original question.

I'm not trying to argue about people's choice of their car, I'm trying to figure out why people must try to wake me up when I'm trying to sleep. Some cars come out of no where on the highway and just speeds pass and you don't hear the noise until after they pass you, which can be scary and in some cases very scary when you have a heart condition when considering the volume of their exhaust.

report it, i believe there are certain levels of noise a car can make. I know my uncle got pulled over and ticketed due to an extremely loud exhaust.

[elton5354]

At that price range, I'll add a little more money and get a Ford Fiesta ST.

[demik]

why not hyundai or kia?

[Topre]

I'm going to call you Trollpre from now on.

I am not trolling. I am serious. Oh right, and to add the sounds thing. I believe most sports cars usually have most of the sounds coming from the engine or something to do with the gears grinding, which can be pleasing to the ears. It sounds much better than a modified car that has an exhaust which sounds like someone dribbling —their lips— super loud, which doesn't sound as pleasing.

dude im not going to argue with you other people's choices of what they do to their car.

it's all personal choice, that's the answer to your original question.

I'm not trying to argue about people's choice of their car, I'm trying to figure out why people must try to wake me up when I'm trying to sleep. Some cars come out of no where on the highway and just speeds pass and you don't hear the noise until after they pass you, which can be scary and in some cases very scary when you have a heart condition when considering the volume of their exhaust.

report it, i believe there are certain levels of noise a car can make. I know my uncle got pulled over and ticketed due to an extremely loud exhaust.

Going to order a dash camera right now, just got to figure out which one. Will definitely report all these people as long as the plates are visible.

[elton5354]

I use BlackVue DR400 HD II, but they tend to overheat, so I don't leave it in the car while it's parked in a hot sunny day.  Winter is fine.  I like the "parking mode" it has.

http://dashcamtalk.com/category/dashcamreviews/

[Topre]

I use BlackVue DR400 HD II, but they tend to overheat, so I don't leave it in the car while it's parked in a hot sunny day.  Winter is fine.  I like the "parking mode" it has.

http://dashcamtalk.com/category/dashcamreviews/

Wow, thanks for that link. The size of the Lukas LK-7900 looks great. I prefer keeping my cars stock looking so something like this size would mean I would be able to make a custom slide out pocket near the rearview mirror for this. The night video does seem like it has room for improvement, I'll consider getting one of these. Usually the only time I really encounter lunatics driving with crazy exhausts is during road trips, so night video would come in useful. Road trips pretty much makes up 95% of the mileage in my car anyway. The other 5% is random city driving and trips to places where I need a car such as Home Depot, or buying some heavy/huge item.

[elton5354]

Actually, I suggest the Itronics models. They're pretty reliable and pretty clear night and day visions.  Blackvue is okay as well, but not as reliable.  Both are pretty small.

Here are some of my videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/elton5354?feature=watch

[tsangan]

Dashcams! Friend and I have been looking into them and we're pretty set on the DOD LS300W, only thing it's lacking is GPS.

I was looking at the BlackVue DR500 before that

As for the car, it's really all up to you OP. I got a 2013 Civic Si Sedan for like 3 weeks and it was godawful in my opinion, as a car it was fine but the feeling you get from the car was really blah and felt very sluggish. Though if in the end you don't really care for all that and just want a car that goes from A -> B then I think the Mazda will get you a better insurance rate

[elton5354]

Dashcams! Friend and I have been looking into them and we're pretty set on the DOD LS300W, only thing it's lacking is GPS.

I was looking at the BlackVue DR500 before that

Look at the Itronics! They're pretty good and with GPS.

[Topre]

Actually, I suggest the Itronics models. They're pretty reliable and pretty clear night and day visions.  Blackvue is okay as well, but not as reliable.  Both are pretty small.

Here are some of my videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/elton5354?feature=watch

LOL Why would someone piss on their own car? Holy ****, go piss at the bathroom, behind a tree, or not the car the person owns.

They do look reasonable in size, but sadly I am a very picky person and I prefer things to be hidden. Which is why I plan to mount mine right behind and on top of a rearview mirror and pull/slide it down while in use. Wires hanging around is not cool in my opinion, got to hide those wires. And while I'm at it the might as well make the camera hidden because there is a small bit of room in that plastic thing. The Itronics seems a bit too big to be able to hide in that plastic thing.

[elton5354]

Actually I do have my wires hidden.  I have them tucked into the sleeves around the fabric of the roof down the to door and into the compartment where I hotwired the cam to run 24/7 from the car battery.

Also mine is behind the rear view mirror as well.  The only way you can see it is from the front windshield which is pretty discreet as well depending on your car tint or what not.

[Topre]

If your camera is unplugged, does it not mean the charging tip will be dangling around? It seems like it would be tough to hide the charging tip when not using the dashcam.

I was planning to mount it somewhere here.

[tormentor]

Mazda 3

[elton5354]

I tuck the plug in when it's unplugged.  It is a tight fit into the sleeve, but it works.

[Topre]

I was planning to remove the plastic thing and put a custom piece of plastic that will enable me to freely open it to be able to store the wire. The I figured, while I'm at it then I might as well just find a camera small enough for that area. I will then be able to just slide/pull it down and put it back up at any time. Dam, I'm just trying to make this too complicated for myself. Maybe I should go a step further and have some motors for it to automatically slide down when the side view mirrors are not folded?

[tinlong117]

lada is the answer.

[iri]

Why do you downshift? You're just putting extra strain on your engine and transmission. Put it in neutral and brake. Brakes are easily replaceable.

said a true texasite who has never driven in snow and ice!

[baldgye]

have to say on my drives to work I barely ever touch the break (unless I come to a round about or something) and just use the gears to slow me down, so much easier.
Not sure why you'd ever recommend an auto over a manual, unless you just constantly drove on motorways...

Are you recommending a manual for cities? I honestly never heard anyone say that before, maybe it's an American or New Yorker thing to prefer auto's for cities. I use to drive around the city using paddle shifters, and even those got really annoying. I can't imagine myself using a tradition manual car set up for a city. On highways where traffic is moving, it's a different story and manuals are more fun to drive.

I recommend manuals over auto's for any kind of driving really, its just more enjoyable to drive a manual... I've never driven in the US so I've no idea what the roads are like, but in the UK we have bends and corners... dull as **** to drive in an auto

I totally understand driving a manual at a road where there isn't many people. Do you, or would you drive a manual in a city like London and recommend it? I leave my car in auto until I hit the highways, then it's either cruise control or manual.

Yeah I would recommend a manual if you lived in London. Autos are just not good, great if you can't drive properly though I guess... Like using a clutch isn't hard, you bearly think about it... And when you get out of the city you can have fun.

Though if you have to drive around London to get to work, you wouldn't use a car at all...

[oTurtlez]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

Is there a reason that I don't understand of why people do this? I am 18 and I never had the idea to modify my car to make it obnoxiously loud or looking like it's been modified. Does louder cars not create a more uncomfortable ride because of the noise? I understand if you want to hear the engine while racing or something, but no need for that sound while driving at 15 to 40 miles per hour. Along with some modified cars which I would assume people would put some stupidly stiff suspensions. Then there is also lowered cars (not air bag lowered), isn't it really dam annoying to drive over speedbumps and out of driveways? In my opinion, modified cars makes me think the person just can't afford a better car and believes that more sound means more power.

the same reason why people put clickclacks on their boards that serve no purpose other than looks. or any keycap really.

because they like it.

Keycaps are for looks, and it doesn't disturb the person next to you unless if they choose to stare at your keyboard. However when some idiot comes driving by at 15 miles per hour in the city, you have no way to mute him. Some people need to sleep. Then on the highway you are cruising at around the speed limit and the person drives at the same speed, no way to mute him unless if you drive far away from him. That means slowing down until he gets far or speeding up and getting away from that person. I just want to leave my car in cruise control. The same for motorcycles too. There is no need for such a loud exhaust while travelling at speeds that should not even be putting a car close to the limits.

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

until a 18 year old kid turns it into a rice rocket. sadly

Is there a reason that I don't understand of why people do this? I am 18 and I never had the idea to modify my car to make it obnoxiously loud or looking like it's been modified. Does louder cars not create a more uncomfortable ride because of the noise? I understand if you want to hear the engine while racing or something, but no need for that sound while driving at 15 to 40 miles per hour. Along with some modified cars which I would assume people would put some stupidly stiff suspensions. Then there is also lowered cars (not air bag lowered), isn't it really dam annoying to drive over speedbumps and out of driveways? In my opinion, modified cars makes me think the person just can't afford a better car and believes that more sound means more power.

Show Image

this owner would disagree.


and it's the same reason why a lot of people do a lot of stuff.

they like it. they think it looks cool. it isn't for everybody of course.

Sports and supercars can be almost silent while driving. I totally understand why a car would be making noise if the driver is trying to accelerate as much as possible. Cursing with such a powerful car will be close to silent if it is in the right gear and not close to it's top speed. The Bugatti Veyron is a great example of a vehicle with power but not much sound. If you ever get a chance to drive one, you would be amazed by it. Too bad Volkswagen decides that most people are too poor to be able to buy a new Bugatti. It makes no sense that even if I was to be able to afford a new Boeing 737 in cash, I can still be considered too poor to be able to own a new Bugatti Veyron. They want to only sell it to people that are worth at least $500 million.

As a car enthusiast, I'll state that loud exhausts serve a purpose. The more free flowing an exhaust is, the more performance you'll get from your engine. This typically results in a louder exhaust, which can be negligible to a degree. Sports cars and supercars take pride in making the ride comfortable and enjoyable, and that's why they're quiet and tame at low RPM's. Slap a performance exhaust on it, grab an additional 50HP and that thing will be louder than your neighbors riced out civic.That's just how cars work. In order to silence your car, you need a more restrictive exhaust, which in turn removes power. Want the power back? You have to deal with the noise, which in most cases, is sought after.

Now on to motorcycles. The louder the bike (sport bike / dual sport) the better. Simply because, it's down right more safe. If you're on a stock street bike, cruising on the highway, nobody will hear you or pay attention to you unless you're accelerating extremely quickly. This can be dangerous as people won't pay attention to you and could easily hit you. Now when you have a nice loud bike, people will know where you are at all times and be able to avoid you and not kill the living hell out of you with one flick of the wheel on accident. Everything has its ups and downs.

[esoomenona]

There is a limit to how big you should go on your exhaust, by the way. Do supercars have 3.5" exhausts? There needs to be a sort of pressure to flow.

[oTurtlez]

There is a limit to how big you should go on your exhaust, by the way. Do supercars have 3.5" exhausts? There needs to be a sort of pressure to flow.

They keep those small exhausts because of OEM regulations that they have to abide by, and because 90% of supercars are mid/rear engine and the exhaust is only about 3 feet anyhow. Why do high performance drag cars just dump the exhaust right before the cab? I'm not saying to throw a 3.5" on anything really. Personally I believe 3" is the max anyone should go for. Except for diesels. They can take a 5" and be happy.

[esoomenona]

I had an Integra where I dumped the exhaust as soon as I could, and it was slower that way... I don't think every method fits every application.

[oTurtlez]

I had an Integra where I dumped the exhaust as soon as I could, and it was slower that way... I don't think every method fits every application.

That's what duct tape's for.

But I agree. There has to be SOME backpressure, but there is no doubt that a 3" exhaust will put out better numbers than a 1" exhaust.

[alaricljs]

There is a limit to how big you should go on your exhaust, by the way. Do supercars have 3.5" exhausts? There needs to be a sort of pressure to flow.

This is mostly for 2-stroke... for 4 stroke the important bit is in the header where you try to cause the different cylinder exhaust burps to not collide.

[oTurtlez]

There is a limit to how big you should go on your exhaust, by the way. Do supercars have 3.5" exhausts? There needs to be a sort of pressure to flow.

This is mostly for 2-stroke... for 4 stroke the important bit is in the header where you try to cause the different cylinder exhaust burps to not collide.

And there have only been a few 2-stroke cars IIRC.

[Jocelyn]

Thanks everyone! I read a lot of the early replies, but really didn't have time to reply with car hunting going on.

We went with the Mazda 3 i Sport 6 speed manual (Pick it up tomorrow), got our trade in off while being able to keep it, and paid ~$3000 less than MSRP. We also decided to finance instead, mainly because we really like the car, but also due to the 4.24% APR. We test drove quite a few other sub compacts and nothing else really had a "fun feeling". Also added in the extended 3 year bumper to bumper warranty for $900, extending it to 6 years/72,000 miles. The only potential regret is not waiting for the 2014 model, but we could really use a new car right now and I'm liking the smiley face front end lol.

I have never owned a car that wasn't at least 10 years old and I think I would have been happy with just about anything we looked at, but like I mentioned above this thing is fun to drive compared to the others. I'd also like to add that shopping for new cars is very stressful (Did most of this while 4grabs was happening lol). I thought it was going to be all fun and stress free, but I was definitely wrong and I'm so glad it's over now.

PS - I don't know what to tell the people who think buying manual is crazy. First, it's what I've been driving my entire life and it's ingrained into my brain, but more importantly, we'll be in east Orlando and the commute will be under 4 miles. If I was still living in Pittsburgh or any other city with insane stop and go traffic, I probably would have gone with or at least considered the automatic, but we also plan to buy bicycles for getting around and I don't think there will be any regrets going with the manual option.

[alaricljs]

Do yourself a favor and shop for new financing.  When I did that the company I already had financing through made an offer .75% better than they had given me through the dealer.  Ultimately I didn't go with them tho since I scored an unsecured loan at 1% better.

[Jocelyn]

Do yourself a favor and shop for new financing.  When I did that the company I already had financing through made an offer .75% better than they had given me through the dealer.  Ultimately I didn't go with them tho since I scored an unsecured loan at 1% better.

Well I don't really use credit a lot or at least haven't historically, so I thought the 4.24% was pretty good. Regardless, I have a lot of savings and expect to pay it off in a year (no penalties for this) and don't really mind if $700-800 is lost in the process. That said, I appreciate the suggestion.

[Tarzan]

Do yourself a favor and shop for new financing.  When I did that the company I already had financing through made an offer .75% better than they had given me through the dealer.  Ultimately I didn't go with them tho since I scored an unsecured loan at 1% better.

Well I don't really use credit a lot or at least haven't historically, so I thought the 4.24% was pretty good. Regardless, I have a lot of savings and expect to pay it off in a year (no penalties for this) and don't really mind if $700-800 is lost in the process. That said, I appreciate the suggestion.

You may want to look into refinancing, even if you are planning to pay it off within a year.  Car loans typically don't recast automatically, so if you pay it off within a year, you're still paying a total interest charge calculated over the life of the loan (36/48/60/72 months).  Even if you don't refinance, might be worth having a CPA take a look at the loan terms and see what the pros and cons would be.

Not a financial expert, just passing along some tips I received in a similar situation.   

[Jocelyn]

You may want to look into refinancing, even if you are planning to pay it off within a year.  Car loans typically don't recast automatically, so if you pay it off within a year, you're still paying a total interest charge calculated over the life of the loan (36/48/60/72 months).  Even if you don't refinance, might be worth having a CPA take a look at the loan terms and see what the pros and cons would be.

Not a financial expert, just passing along some tips I received in a similar situation.   

Will do, after we find a place to live lol. Thanks!

[iri]

We went with the Mazda 3 i Sport 6 speed manual

congratulations! you didn't make the wrong choice.

PS - I don't know what to tell the people who think buying manual is crazy. First, it's what I've been driving my entire life and it's ingrained into my brain

noooo! you are ruining the stereotype!

we'll be in east Orlando and the commute will be under 4 miles. If I was still living in Pittsburgh or any other city with insane stop and go traffic, I probably would have gone with or at least considered the automatic, but we also plan to buy bicycles for getting around and I don't think there will be any regrets going with the manual option.

yup, i'd definitely use a bike for such short commute.

[Topre]

As a car enthusiast, I'll state that loud exhausts serve a purpose. The more free flowing an exhaust is, the more performance you'll get from your engine. This typically results in a louder exhaust, which can be negligible to a degree. Sports cars and supercars take pride in making the ride comfortable and enjoyable, and that's why they're quiet and tame at low RPM's. Slap a performance exhaust on it, grab an additional 50HP and that thing will be louder than your neighbors riced out civic.That's just how cars work. In order to silence your car, you need a more restrictive exhaust, which in turn removes power. Want the power back? You have to deal with the noise, which in most cases, is sought after.

Now on to motorcycles. The louder the bike (sport bike / dual sport) the better. Simply because, it's down right more safe. If you're on a stock street bike, cruising on the highway, nobody will hear you or pay attention to you unless you're accelerating extremely quickly. This can be dangerous as people won't pay attention to you and could easily hit you. Now when you have a nice loud bike, people will know where you are at all times and be able to avoid you and not kill the living hell out of you with one flick of the wheel on accident. Everything has its ups and downs.

Engine and gear sound you can pretty much hear and they sound fine, but exhaust sounds like someone dribbling super loud. I don't mind someone driving by with a nice engine sound, but really dislike the loud exhaust.

The motorcycle argument is very common. Honestly I have never heard a motorcycle until they passed me, usually driving at 20 miles per hour faster than me. What if I got a shock from the sound and just started swerving? The only time when the exhaust is heard is when they are either cruising next to me, or driving near the same speed. I think such a loud bike is unnecessary dangerous. The exhaust does not point forward, the sound is directed towards the back of the bike.

[oTurtlez]

As a car enthusiast, I'll state that loud exhausts serve a purpose. The more free flowing an exhaust is, the more performance you'll get from your engine. This typically results in a louder exhaust, which can be negligible to a degree. Sports cars and supercars take pride in making the ride comfortable and enjoyable, and that's why they're quiet and tame at low RPM's. Slap a performance exhaust on it, grab an additional 50HP and that thing will be louder than your neighbors riced out civic.That's just how cars work. In order to silence your car, you need a more restrictive exhaust, which in turn removes power. Want the power back? You have to deal with the noise, which in most cases, is sought after.

Now on to motorcycles. The louder the bike (sport bike / dual sport) the better. Simply because, it's down right more safe. If you're on a stock street bike, cruising on the highway, nobody will hear you or pay attention to you unless you're accelerating extremely quickly. This can be dangerous as people won't pay attention to you and could easily hit you. Now when you have a nice loud bike, people will know where you are at all times and be able to avoid you and not kill the living hell out of you with one flick of the wheel on accident. Everything has its ups and downs.

Engine and gear sound you can pretty much hear and they sound fine, but exhaust sounds like someone dribbling super loud. I don't mind someone driving by with a nice engine sound, but really dislike the loud exhaust.

The motorcycle argument is very common. Honestly I have never heard a motorcycle until they passed me, usually driving at 20 miles per hour faster than me. What if I got a shock from the sound and just started swerving? The only time when the exhaust is heard is when they are either cruising next to me, or driving near the same speed. I think such a loud bike is unnecessary dangerous. The exhaust does not point forward, the sound is directed towards the back of the bike.

Sound travels in many directions and unless that bike is going faster than 780MPH the sound of his bike is going to get to you before he does. That's just science. And you do not hear engine noise practically ever. All the noise you hear is exhaust. How loud it is and the sound it makes is determined by pipe size, shape, and length. And furthermore, if you get scared by the sound of a motorcycle whizzing by and begin to swerve, you shouldn't even be driving in the first place. What if you're drifting into another person's lane late at night and they beep at you. Are you going to get scared and swerve into the jersey barrier? There is no argument here. Loud bikes are heard more than quiet bikes and often result in recognition and better safety. Car exhausts are all different. Some can sound good, some can sound bad. If you simply cut your exhaust off after the header, it's going to sound obnoxiously loud and usually bad. If you run a 3" stainless pipe from header / turbo back, it's usually going to sound good.

[alaricljs]

Funny, my bike got a whole lot louder when I removed the intake baffle box and stuck a free-air filter on.  The extra noise certainly wasn't coming out the exhaust although that did get a little louder as a result of better air throughput.

[Topre]

As a car enthusiast, I'll state that loud exhausts serve a purpose. The more free flowing an exhaust is, the more performance you'll get from your engine. This typically results in a louder exhaust, which can be negligible to a degree. Sports cars and supercars take pride in making the ride comfortable and enjoyable, and that's why they're quiet and tame at low RPM's. Slap a performance exhaust on it, grab an additional 50HP and that thing will be louder than your neighbors riced out civic.That's just how cars work. In order to silence your car, you need a more restrictive exhaust, which in turn removes power. Want the power back? You have to deal with the noise, which in most cases, is sought after.

Now on to motorcycles. The louder the bike (sport bike / dual sport) the better. Simply because, it's down right more safe. If you're on a stock street bike, cruising on the highway, nobody will hear you or pay attention to you unless you're accelerating extremely quickly. This can be dangerous as people won't pay attention to you and could easily hit you. Now when you have a nice loud bike, people will know where you are at all times and be able to avoid you and not kill the living hell out of you with one flick of the wheel on accident. Everything has its ups and downs.

Engine and gear sound you can pretty much hear and they sound fine, but exhaust sounds like someone dribbling super loud. I don't mind someone driving by with a nice engine sound, but really dislike the loud exhaust.

The motorcycle argument is very common. Honestly I have never heard a motorcycle until they passed me, usually driving at 20 miles per hour faster than me. What if I got a shock from the sound and just started swerving? The only time when the exhaust is heard is when they are either cruising next to me, or driving near the same speed. I think such a loud bike is unnecessary dangerous. The exhaust does not point forward, the sound is directed towards the back of the bike.

Sound travels in many directions and unless that bike is going faster than 780MPH the sound of his bike is going to get to you before he does. That's just science. And you do not hear engine noise practically ever. All the noise you hear is exhaust. How loud it is and the sound it makes is determined by pipe size, shape, and length. And furthermore, if you get scared by the sound of a motorcycle whizzing by and begin to swerve, you shouldn't even be driving in the first place. What if you're drifting into another person's lane late at night and they beep at you. Are you going to get scared and swerve into the jersey barrier? There is no argument here. Loud bikes are heard more than quiet bikes and often result in recognition and better safety. Car exhausts are all different. Some can sound good, some can sound bad. If you simply cut your exhaust off after the header, it's going to sound obnoxiously loud and usually bad. If you run a 3" stainless pipe from header / turbo back, it's usually going to sound good.

Sound does travel in many directions, but does that mean it will be equally loud regardless of the direction you point the exhaust in? Concerts don't have their speakers facing away from their audience because the direction the sound is directed at does matter. A horn is much more quiet than the exhaust you hear most of the times. I wouldn't be the one drifting into another lane, my car wouldn't even let me if I tried. I care about my passengers too, a crying baby takes a while to stop. Although I do not know much about cars, I do believe the gears (maybe not the engine) in a car does make sounds. For example, an spur gear based vehicle will create a high pitched sound, whereas a helical gear vehicle will create a sound heard in most vehicles that is not in reverse mode.

[badcop]

Sound does travel in many directions, but does that mean it will be equally loud regardless of the direction you point the exhaust in? Concerts don't have their speakers facing away from their audience because the direction the sound is directed at does matter. A horn is much more quiet than the exhaust you hear most of the times. I wouldn't be the one drifting into another lane, my car wouldn't even let me if I tried. I care about my passengers too, a crying baby takes a while to stop. Although I do not know much about cars, I do believe the gears (maybe not the engine) in a car does make sounds. For example, an spur gear based vehicle will create a high pitched sound, whereas a helical gear vehicle will create a sound heard in most vehicles that is not in reverse mode.

gears do make a lot of noise actually but with most cars you cant hear it due to transmission mounts being soft and gummy.  throw a solid mount on any car and the transmission will sound the trans is sitting in the passenger seat.

[badcop]

Thanks everyone! I read a lot of the early replies, but really didn't have time to reply with car hunting going on.

We went with the Mazda 3 i Sport 6 speed manual (Pick it up tomorrow), got our trade in off while being able to keep it, and paid ~$3000 less than MSRP. We also decided to finance instead, mainly because we really like the car, but also due to the 4.24% APR. We test drove quite a few other sub compacts and nothing else really had a "fun feeling". Also added in the extended 3 year bumper to bumper warranty for $900, extending it to 6 years/72,000 miles. The only potential regret is not waiting for the 2014 model, but we could really use a new car right now and I'm liking the smiley face front end lol.

I have never owned a car that wasn't at least 10 years old and I think I would have been happy with just about anything we looked at, but like I mentioned above this thing is fun to drive compared to the others. I'd also like to add that shopping for new cars is very stressful (Did most of this while 4grabs was happening lol). I thought it was going to be all fun and stress free, but I was definitely wrong and I'm so glad it's over now.

PS - I don't know what to tell the people who think buying manual is crazy. First, it's what I've been driving my entire life and it's ingrained into my brain, but more importantly, we'll be in east Orlando and the commute will be under 4 miles. If I was still living in Pittsburgh or any other city with insane stop and go traffic, I probably would have gone with or at least considered the automatic, but we also plan to buy bicycles for getting around and I don't think there will be any regrets going with the manual option.

congrats on the new mazda  my fiance and i have both owned mazdas (mazda 3 and NA miata) and they are great.  my favorite part is the tight steering.  they feel so good.

[TimIsABat]

I wish I knew stick to get the Speed 3, but I really like my Mazda 3. Congrats on the new car! I have many friends who have either the Speed or the automatic and are completely satisfied.

Like 62g ergoclears, the pedal feels just right while I found the Civic (or just Honda in general) to have such a high sensitivity on the acceleration pedal.

[jdcarpe]

We went with the Mazda 3 i Sport 6 speed manual

Zoom zoom!

P.S. Did you get a Clack in the 4Grabs?

[tooki]

There is no such thing as "old care more problems" when it comes to older gen Civics.

The hell there isn't... my first car was a 1992 Civic that proved to be a freaking money pit. I eventually replaced it with a 2005 Mazda 3, which was a superior car in every imaginable way. (It pained me to sell the Mazda when I moved to Europe.)

[tp4tissue]

I am probably too late... But if you're going to buy a car.. And you intend to DO STUFF to it..

Why not consider a Skyline R32.  They're only 15,000 to start, and MOST of the time, they already have alot of wrench-time put into them by previous owners.... This means well tuned, aftermarket 'something' shocks for example, Professionally rebuilt engines..

Many people think modern infinities, wrx-es, blah blah are fast.. but honestly  an R32 with some tuning can still take those down pretty hard.

[kokVT]

I use BlackVue DR400 HD II, but they tend to overheat, so I don't leave it in the car while it's parked in a hot sunny day.  Winter is fine.  I like the "parking mode" it has.

http://dashcamtalk.com/category/dashcamreviews/

Heard "parking mode" a lot, how it works? very useful feature?
I got this dashcam few weeks ago shipped from China, do not have "park mode", with 32GB cards records over 6 hours HD1080 in short cycles 3-5 min; can use 128 or even 256 GB cards; this is great in low light, lots of features, external gps, shows position speed. sharp but doesn't have IR.

Before this I used another one (I still have it), it records in total darkness, has 6 IR illuminators, but doesn't have range , the IR doen't work well through windshield, won't record record nothing beyond headlights range during night and way lower quality during day and low light. I was trying to buy larger IR illuminator, the kind they use for security and try if gets better night range, but all are powered by 110V, and I wouldn't keep my power invertor running nonstop for dash cam.

[microsoft windows]

I know what its called, but there's no need to. Especially in a small car. Give yourself enough distance to brake properly.

That is proper braking.  I also down shift in my automatic rather than ride the brakes down a hill. 

I cut a hole in my floor so I can just stick my foot out to the road and brake. That way I have to use neither the engine nor the braking system! And it reduces vehicle weight as well.

[russm]

Purchased a new 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 and I currently have 105K miles on it with just regular maintinance. It is six speed, "can get 32 MPG" and when you want it stops , turns and goes great!!And if you like that kinda stuff it will also go 155 MPH and stop on a dime! Just be sure you find a good Mazda Service center, I have run into several that should be ashamed to call them selves a repair shop!

[Malphas]

Off-Topic: I can't believe the amount of people in America that learn to drive in an automatic (Next to nobody does in the UK), if you can't drive a manual then sorry but you can't drive

if you can change gears with your left hand you must be some sort of a ninja

Hmm odd, I find changing gears with the left hand much more natural, leaving the right hand free to do the more important job of steering. Also for that kind of car I would go with a Golf or a Focus over those choices by a large margin.

[mkawa]

mazda 3 or 6

fantastic cars. i prefer the 6 since it's still made in japan

[Malphas]

Why do you downshift? You're just putting extra strain on your engine and transmission. Put it in neutral and brake. Brakes are easily replaceable.

Nah son, it's only bad if you're doing it incorrectly. Otherwise it saves wear and tear, saves fuel, and you have a lot more control over the vehicle than riding the brakes. I always feel slightly out of control driving an auto, especially downhill or on twisty roads where you would normally downshift to blast around corners in a manual. Autos are fine for stop and go city traffic or long straight roads and highways though, so 90% of US roads.