Author Topic: Topre. Insights? (Read 11627 times)

CalmB4tehPwn · « **on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:20:16 »

So, functionally, I know the difference between mechs and Topre. Or at least, I have a base of information to work off of. And obviously, they're new, which makes them immediately desirable. But practically, what's different about them? How do they compare to the Cherry MXs we're all used to? Is it really worth more money?

I've seen the facts, let's hear some opinions.

Photekq · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:28:01 »

Keyswitches are entirely a matter of opinion. You either love topre or hate it. If you love it then it's worth the money. If not then it probably isn't..

They aren't better, some people just prefer them.

smknjoe · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:29:16 »

Topres aren't new. They've been around at least 10-20 years. There are a bunch of threads out there doing comparisons, but in a nutshell they are really nice rubber domes. Not far from the ones that come standard with every new desktop.

Edit: Looks like they have made them for about 30 years or so.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=MjEuAAAAEBAJ

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:32:12 »

Well, comparatively new. A decade+ isn't all that long compared to mechs.
I'm happy with MX, so I probably wont be changing. I was just curious what everyone here thought about them

Photekq · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:34:43 »

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:32:12

Well, comparatively new. A decade+ isn't all that long compared to mechs.
I'm happy with MX, so I probably wont be changing. I was just curious what everyone here thought about them

They're tactile but very smooth according to what I've read. You can't go by opinions.. because they are just that - opinions. You need to try them and decide for yourself, as everyone has a different preference.

smknjoe · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:35:45 »

I have several mx boards, bs, and a HHKB. They are all nice, but Topre is really just a really smooth rubber dome. Very well built. You really won't know how you like them until you use one.

rowdy · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 04:56:55 »

The feel - different to MX.

The sound - different to MX.

The custom keycap availability - different to MX.

They are just a different switch. As is buckling spring. And all the others.

Personally I quite like Topre - I can rattle off a quick sentence or two almost without thinking about it, and generally with less typos than on MX (blue, black, red).

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 05:27:10 »

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:20:16

How do they compare to the Cherry MXs we're all used to? Is it really worth more money?

...let's hear some opinions.

What something is worth, is relative to how bad you want it and/or your income.

Asking for general opinions of MX vs topre is rather vague. You're not going to get a straight forward answer. Also, this topic has been covered many many times already, use the search function so you don't have to wait for responses.

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 06:54:25 »

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 31 July 2013, 05:27:10

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:20:16
How do they compare to the Cherry MXs we're all used to? Is it really worth more money?

...let's hear some opinions.

What something is worth, is relative to how bad you want it and/or your income.

Asking for general opinions of MX vs topre is rather vague. You're not going to get a straight forward answer. Also, this topic has been covered many many times already, use the search function so you don't have to wait for responses.

You're right, value and worth are both very subjective terms, which is why I specifically asked for opinions. Based on your situation, have you felt the need to buy an HHKB or other Topre (if there is any? HHKB is all I hear about on the subject) and if you have bought it, do you feel it was a good investment, or would have been better spent elsewhere?

And yes, it is a pretty vague topic, but that's mostly because I don't know enough about it to ask specific questions, so I'm just looking to get a feel for people's perspective on the matter. If I want facts, I use the search function. But I don't want facts, I want dialogue and interaction. So I asked you. If it's something you've answered before, and find you've reached the end of your patience on the subject, there's no obligation to interact with me back. I don't, however, see the point in sending someone new to the search function, as it's essentially telling a person

"We have too many people like you, and we've already put up with all of their stupid questions. We don't need another person who asks stupid questions, so please don't interact with us."

I've been a lurker here for a couple months, and I decided to finally sign up because I wanted to participate, and be a part of this community.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 07:02:26 »

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 06:54:25

"We have too many people like you, and we've already put up with all of their stupid questions. We don't need another person who asks stupid questions, so please don't interact with us."

I've been a lurker here for a couple months, and I decided to finally sign up because I wanted to participate, and be a part of this community.

Look at it from another point of view: Every three days or so, the same topic comes up and the same answers are given. Why should any of us just repeat ourselves from three days ago? When you reopen the same topic in a different thread, it just looks like you haven't done any research or read anything and decided to just post something new when you could've hopped in on one of the many other threads and gotten the same opinions.

I'm not saying that you did that, I'm just saying how it can look. And I mean "us" and "you" in the general sense, not you and me personally.

Danule · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 07:20:19 »

topre = smooth thock's

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 07:37:36 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Wed, 31 July 2013, 07:02:26

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 06:54:25
"We have too many people like you, and we've already put up with all of their stupid questions. We don't need another person who asks stupid questions, so please don't interact with us."

I've been a lurker here for a couple months, and I decided to finally sign up because I wanted to participate, and be a part of this community.

Look at it from another point of view: Every three days or so, the same topic comes up and the same answers are given. Why should any of us just repeat ourselves from three days ago? When you reopen the same topic in a different thread, it just looks like you haven't done any research or read anything and decided to just post something new when you could've hopped in on one of the many other threads and gotten the same opinions.

I'm not saying that you did that, I'm just saying how it can look. And I mean "us" and "you" in the general sense, not you and me personally.

No, I understand. I did go back a couple pages and didn't find anything regarding Topre in a general sense (which is all I'm interested in) and addressing personal opinions on the matter and figured I'd be safe putting up the question out there. I've definitely been on the frustrated side of the fence here as well, I just don't think a thread provoking discussion and opinions fits that bill.

That being said, I don't feel WhiteFireDragon was particularly tactless in his suggestion, I've just witnessed too many potential community members be shut out of a given community because they either got put down for asking a simple question, or because they're simply too new to know there's even a function for search.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 07:43:44 »

I actually started a thread just for this situation where you want to ask something quick but don't know where to turn. Not sure if you've ever seen it but it's called the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread. I'd be more than happy, or anyone else who regularly is in that thread, to point you to some threads or answer quick questions.

I'm kind of on the fence about the questions thing. It's great to ask questions and I encourage it (I've answered questions for more than 100 pages). But I just feel that a lot of newer people don't do any research/reading at all. It irks me that there are so many members putting out such good information and no one wants to take two minutes to find it. I've had people straight up ask me to Google things for them because they're too lazy to do it themselves.

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:03:38 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Wed, 31 July 2013, 07:43:44

I actually started a thread just for this situation where you want to ask something quick but don't know where to turn. Not sure if you've ever seen it but it's called the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread. I'd be more than happy, or anyone else who regularly is in that thread, to point you to some threads or answer quick questions.

I'm kind of on the fence about the questions thing. It's great to ask questions and I encourage it (I've answered questions for more than 100 pages). But I just feel that a lot of newer people don't do any research/reading at all. It irks me that there are so many members putting out such good information and no one wants to take two minutes to find it. I've had people straight up ask me to Google things for them because they're too lazy to do it themselves.

Well that has to be an extreme case, and I would never argue that you're not justified in your frustration. And I had forgotten about the thread in question, though I think I would still have posted this topic anyways. It's a simple question, but I feel it's not necessarily a simple answer.

I think it's funny now that we're discussing the existence of the topic in more depth and intensity than the topic itself.

Lucky me, though, discussion was the goal, and not necessarily the topic. So I'll call this one a triumph.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:14:32 »

In case you didn't see, I recorded my thoughts on Topre here and here.

Now we're back on topic!

BunnyLake · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:22:10 »

my opinion is simple

i love topre

i only picked up some topre boards recently but i adore them and am totally off of mx now, but, like everyone says, its a matter of opinion, the price is worth it to me because for me the typing experience is massively superior, i would suggest however that you try before you buy, as they arent for everyone

jameslr · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:24:21 »

From a noob perspective, having not even touched a Topre switch - Topre seems to be a niche for those that have tried everything MX/Alps/etc and still like the feel of rubber domes without the actuation force requirements or durability concerns. I think the average rubber dome keyboard is around 70g or higher actuation force and has a longer travel length than any mechanical switch. Topre keys have shorter travel. Again, just what I've gleaned from the reading I've done. I don't think I'd pay the money for a Topre based keyboard at this stage of the game as I'm still getting used to and enjoying MX switches.

I suspect after long enough use of MX switches I'll want to try something different. Partly because I like to explore different options, and also as a budding enthusiast I would like to expand my collection. So, if it's purely a practicality question, it's probably just up to personal taste, but I'm guessing a lot of people get Topre keyboards because they're sort of a club.

oTurtlez · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:31:06 »

Every time I see a thread about Topre, everyone neglects to mention it's a capacitive switch that you don't need to bottom out for the keypress to measure. And to address James' statement, I got my first Topre board because one popped up at a steal for 170 in the classifieds. I had only tried MX Blues and Reds on actual keyboards, blacks on a tenkey, and two of those three were PCB mounted (which I truly hate) before I got my Topre. In comparison to other rubber domes, Topre is much lighter, smoother, and makes a much better sound. The boards ooze quality out of every seam, and they're just phenomenal products. That being said, I still use MX and BS. I like a bit of spice in my keyboard life so every now and then a nice curveball keeps everything different. As everyone else has stated, Topre is EXTREMELY hit or miss. Either you love it or you hate it. Simple as that. The only way you're going to know is by trying it for yourself.

yasuo · « **Reply #18 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:43:40 »

Yes, there has been a switch topre 20s years ago as well as cherry

black switch is first switches of cherry MX.

HHKB made from<PS> plastic Yes,realforce is better for build and use Pbt Dye keycap
and maybe Made in Japan makes expensive like fujitsu corp (HHKB)

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/what-costs-in-topres-i-don-t-get-it-t3295-30.html

try asking DT to also

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:45:48 »

You don't have to bottom out on MX or Alps either?

Regardless, I'm in the miss category.

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:46:20 »

I'm definitely curious, and I'd love to try it, but I just don't see an opportunity on the horizon, short of me sucking it up and dishing out 200 bucks for one.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:47:28 »

There's no meetups being organized on KBD or OTD? You're located in an amazing place for custom keyboards and keyboarding stuff in general.

esoomenona · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:49:20 »

The smart money's on Topre, **** what the dummies thought

yasuo · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:52:07 »

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:46:20

I'm definitely curious, and I'd love to try it, but I just don't see an opportunity on the horizon, short of me sucking it up and dishing out 200 bucks for one.

buy secondhand under $200 or buy type heaven

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #24 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:56:11 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:47:28

There's no meetups being organized on KBD or OTD? You're located in an amazing place for custom keyboards and keyboarding stuff in general.

You know, you bring up a valid point. I do have a couple friends who speak Mongol fluently, I think the biggest barrier would be knowing where to look to find such a gathering. Are there any members known to be on the peninsula, with a good grasp of english and would be keeping up with meets? Or at least have an idea of where to find the meets?

I'd also really like to give buckling springs a shot while I'm at it.

If I end up heading that way, anyone looking for anything in specific that they'd like to take advantage of APO shipping for? (same prices as CONUS shipping)

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #25 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:57:02 »

Oh, you might have answered my question before I answered it. What are KBD and ODT?

oTurtlez · « **Reply #26 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:00:32 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:45:48

You don't have to bottom out on MX or Alps either?

Regardless, I'm in the miss category.

You don't, but you DO for normal domes. That's the key difference.

yasuo · « **Reply #27 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:10:08 »

KBD and OTD is famous keyboard forum from korean

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:19:22 »

Yeah, I'm on otd.kr right now, but google translate is not helping as much as I need it to. I'm not having much luck making heads or tails over here.

Maybe it being midnight isn't helping. I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

jspark · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:30:00 »

Well, the problem is.... Okay let's be honest.
I'm sick of explaining that switches are all about preferences, and there is no switch better than the other objectively when people, who just got interested in Mechanical keyboards, ask me about Topre switches.
They just judge it based on the price. Even though I answer like that, they just think that "but there are some reasons why it is more expensive. Something good and Something better."

Because of Topre's higher price, new guys tend to think Topre is the best because it is more expensive.

If you can read Korean, even you can see this tendency at KBDMania as well. They call a Topre Keyboard as a destination. Destination from what?

Now, I don't care.

yasuo · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:33:30 »

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:19:22

Yeah, I'm on otd.kr right now, but google translate is not helping as much as I need it to. I'm not having much luck making heads or tails over here.

Maybe it being midnight isn't helping. I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

I suggest trying to DT also

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:53:44 »

Quote from: jspark on Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:30:00

Well, the problem is.... Okay let's be honest.
I'm sick of explaining that switches are all about preferences, and there is no switch better than the other objectively when people, who just got interested in Mechanical keyboards, ask me about Topre switches.
They just judge it based on the price. Even though I answer like that, they just think that "but there are some reasons why it is more expensive. Something good and Something better."

Because of Topre's higher price, new guys tend to think Topre is the best because it is more expensive.

If you can read Korean, even you can see this tendency at KBDMania as well. They call a Topre Keyboard as a destination. Destination from what?

Now, I don't care.

See, I've been in the wetshaving world too long to try and quantify everything in that way. If you have a hobby, then it's yours. Yours alone. You can relate that hobby to other people that share parts of it, but you'll have one thing that is perfect for you. One keyboard, or keycap, or modifier set that is your perfect piece. So that's why I'm only interested in your subjective thoughts. What about topre makes you like or dislike it? Are you used to something else? Were you looking for a change? How long did you use MX before you realized you wanted more? Did you always feel unsatisfied with MX switches, or were they the best thing in the world at one point and you grew tired of them?

I'm not looking for people to put their thoughts into numbers, into quantifiable data, I want to know how you feel, and what you think makes you feel that way.

I know it's all preference, but my goal has always been an interest in perspective. I want to know how you feel. So no more of this "Everyone's going to have a different view" I don't care that your view is different than mine. I want to know what your view is.

badcop · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:07:54 »

topre is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:09:57 »

Why is the sky blue?

BECAUSE GOD LOVES THE INFANTRY

PadawanGeek · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:12:47 »

I have way too many MX KB's, from Filco to Ducky to Cooler Master (at least two or more of each), as well as a Lexmark Model M. I had recently acquired a Topre RF 103UB-55G and I absolutely love it. That doesn't mean I'm giving up on MX boards, far from it as I'd be getting another MX board in the aluminum YOTS, and to scratch that Topre itch I'm having, I'd be getting a HHKB Pro2 together with the YOTS. As for typing with Topre, it feels like a smooth and quiet buckling spring to me (best way I can describe it as I'm a newb), not dissimilar to typing with Black, except it has a somehow smoother feel. As some have said, it either you like it or you don't.,,,,just like how some like Blue over Brown, or Red over Blue and such....it boils down to personal preference. When I type on my Topre, I just don't feel like stopping, it's.....I don't know......it's so hard to quantify, you have just got to try it yourself and see if your fingers like it. Typing on Topre has changed me a little, I didn't used to really like Black as much as I do Blue and Brown, but now, I like Black immensely......just so smooth and a tad heavy, the way I like it.

jspark · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:43:39 »

Quote from: CalmB4tehPwn on Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:53:44

Quote from: jspark on Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:30:00
Well, the problem is.... Okay let's be honest.
I'm sick of explaining that switches are all about preferences, and there is no switch better than the other objectively when people, who just got interested in Mechanical keyboards, ask me about Topre switches.
They just judge it based on the price. Even though I answer like that, they just think that "but there are some reasons why it is more expensive. Something good and Something better."

Because of Topre's higher price, new guys tend to think Topre is the best because it is more expensive.

If you can read Korean, even you can see this tendency at KBDMania as well. They call a Topre Keyboard as a destination. Destination from what?

Now, I don't care.

See, I've been in the wetshaving world too long to try and quantify everything in that way. If you have a hobby, then it's yours. Yours alone. You can relate that hobby to other people that share parts of it, but you'll have one thing that is perfect for you. One keyboard, or keycap, or modifier set that is your perfect piece. So that's why I'm only interested in your subjective thoughts. What about topre makes you like or dislike it? Are you used to something else? Were you looking for a change? How long did you use MX before you realized you wanted more? Did you always feel unsatisfied with MX switches, or were they the best thing in the world at one point and you grew tired of them?

I'm not looking for people to put their thoughts into numbers, into quantifiable data, I want to know how you feel, and what you think makes you feel that way.

I know it's all preference, but my goal has always been an interest in perspective. I want to know how you feel. So no more of this "Everyone's going to have a different view" I don't care that your view is different than mine. I want to know what your view is.

I prefer clicky switches over any other types, but I still cannot say which one is the best switch.
I have MX blue, brown, black, red, green, clear, dark grey, model m, and HHKB2. Even though I prefer greens the most, I cannot say green is better than the other.
I enjoy every other different key switches. They have their own tastes.
And it is all up to my mind, sometimes I prefer blacks or clears more than greens. When I got angry, I prefer model M a lot, heh.
What I'm saying is I consider all the switches equally.

esoomenona · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:47:46 »

jspark · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 11:09:41 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:47:46

I've been into wetshaving for a good amount of time as well, and I can tell you that saying there is one perfect thing for everyone is another opinion. It's not always true. I'd rather have an array of different things, liking them for what they are, than to have one "perfect" thing.

Exactly!

Danule · « **Reply #38 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 11:59:48 »

Its nice to see some fellow wet shavers on here! What razor blades do you guys prefer? My favorite so far are Bic's

dndlmx · « **Reply #39 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 12:07:41 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Wed, 31 July 2013, 03:29:16

...in a nutshell they are really nice rubber domes. Not far from the ones that come standard with every new desktop.

Hardly, they have plastic plungers with a spring landing, they *snap* back, and sprooinggg...

esoomenona · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 12:08:18 »

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:57:06 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:47:46

I've been into wetshaving for a good amount of time as well, and I can tell you that saying there is one perfect thing for everyone is another opinion. It's not always true. I'd rather have an array of different things, liking them for what they are, than to have one "perfect" thing.

Yeah, I realized my mistake last night when I typed it. It felt good to me, as I've recently found the right DE for me, but practically, it doesn't make sense. Consider how many old timers have a 7 or 14 day rotation of brushed and razors. If I walked up and said you just having found the one that's right for you yet I'd probably get a long discussion about how of course they have. They've found 14 brushes that are good for them, and they're all in the rotation.

As we say over on badgerandblade.com

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)

esoomenona · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:59:12 »

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:08:16 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:59:12

And even if the items don't make it into your rotation of use, I still like to collect them. I have I don't even know how many razors right now, but I love them all, and I only use one everyday. The same thing goes for keyboards. I'm not opposed to stacking boxes of them in a corner and never using them, because I know I love them for what they are as an individual.

I had to read this a couple times, I thought you meant you had a bunch of razer keyboards

tp4tissue · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:11:42 »

Here are some accurate numbers that all GH members agree on.

Staggered keyboard: 0

Ergodox: OVER 9000

esoomenona · « **Reply #45 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:17:45 »

margo baggins · « **Reply #46 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:18:18 »

My topre board arrived today. I think it`s awesome. especially the hhkb layout, and the thock thock thock sound. and it is very smooth.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:19:35 »

Dumb question time. Are there plated and unplated HHKBs? I swear the HHKB I tried in Chicago had zero thocking and the boards only thock if they have plates IIRC.

esoomenona · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:23:49 »

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:24:32 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:19:35

Dumb question time. Are there plated and unplated HHKBs? I swear the HHKB I tried in Chicago had zero thocking and the boards only thock if they have plates IIRC.

Isn't there a 'silent' version?

News:

Author Topic: Topre. Insights? (Read 11627 times)