Is really Topre switches better than Cherry MXs?

[rowdy]

I haven't tried a Topre keyboard (yet), but from lurking around here I haven't read of anyone who has used one and did not like it.

I would be curious to try one eventually.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Some people don't like them, and it took me a while to break mine in/have it break me in. However, they are definitely well-liked!

[karljs]

From someone who has actually shelled out for several of each type, my two Topre boards are my home and work daily drivers. That said, if you think that there is a linear relationship between price and quality, prepare to be disappointed. There is no question that Topre is overpriced, but that doesn't mean they aren't wonderful to type on.

And let me just get this off my chest. Please stop dismissing Topre just because the tactility is provided by rubber. This is a logically fallacious argument. If you don't like them, that's fine, but keep it to yourself until you've tried one. It's analogous to arguing that a Lamborghini (or insert your favorite car brand here) isn't a desirable car because it's not made entirely out of steel. In the end what matters is the feel and quality, and I'm extraordinarily satisfied with both on my Topres. They feel nothing like a typical rubber dome.

[vbrenny]

The following question is from a total noob, that has never experienced a Topre and/or profoundly known one.
Don't they wear out with time and change their feeling?
If they do, for how long they keep their factory-like weight and responsiveness?

[lazerpointer]

whoa buddy watch it with the j-word.

flip -- there is really nothing that isn't already out there on the internet about the differences that could be conveyed without just trying each of the switch types and forming your own opinion. lurk moar

This thread is intended for those who have Topre to share their experience. Unless I'm mistaken? We should encourage information sharing, even if that info is opinions.

[sth]

lurk moar, nothing new has been said in this thread that hasn't been covered countless times

every time these threads come up, people who have never tried topre ***** about the price, people who actually use topre reiterate that YES, they are worth the premium, and people with little experience ask others to compare them in words even though they're not effectively comparable to anything else in an objective light.

[rowdy]

I accept the price, I just can't afford it at the moment.

The white/gray Topre Realforce is one of the nicest keyboard I have seen (but never used).

[lazerpointer]

While I understand the redundancy you are trying to prevent, I fail to see why you are discouraging other people from sharing. Why not let there be one thread where people can dump their Topre stories? I'll continuously check back here but won't engage in any further argument. Hopefully people can be constructive

[sth]

i am not discouraging people from anything. what stories are you expecting to hear that have not been told time and again?

please don't get sanctimonious with me because you're not willing to read old threads. geekhack is not a silver platter upon which information is served to you directly, it's a community with rich and vast resources tucked away in the corners of old threads all over the forum.

[thegunner100]

i am not discouraging people from anything. what stories are you expecting to hear that have not been told time and again?

please don't get sanctimonious with me because you're not willing to read old threads. geekhack is not a silver platter upon which information is served to you directly, it's a community with rich and vast resources tucked away in the corners of old threads all over the forum.

And the search function actually works now!

 

While I understand the redundancy you are trying to prevent, I fail to see why you are discouraging other people from sharing. Why not let there be one thread where people can dump their Topre stories? I'll continuously check back here but won't engage in any further argument. Hopefully people can be constructive

There really isnt much constructive info that hasnt been mentioned before in the past.

[Capitalistix]

whoa buddy watch it with the j-word.

flip -- there is really nothing that isn't already out there on the internet about the differences that could be conveyed without just trying each of the switch types and forming your own opinion. lurk moar

I mean no disrespect, I'm a studunt of Japanese myself. My last girlfirend was Japanese herself, I just type as I talk, I dont consider it like the n-word or anything, sorry if I offended ya. すみません。

[dorkvader]

Topre costs more for a few reasons in my opinion:


1. Smaller production numbers
2. A more complex PCB from what I have seen
3. Premium pricing
4. Higher quality than most Cherry boards



I love topre, they feel like a switch that has been designed properly and I wouldn't go back to Cherry boards.

You forgot "Made In Japan."

True that, the Japanese have on average, today, an attention to detail in electronics quality control which rivals that of the US' auto indudustry, or big name US electronics firms back in the "six sigma" days of quality control during the late 80's to early 90's. IMHO almost everything I've ever bought made in mainland China, other than Apple quality controlled products, has honestly been ***t

I would say that it started with the taguchi method, and going against the American Manufacturers' goalpost mentality. We went over this in some detail (but not as in depth as Id' like) in my Design of experiments class: Probably the most useful class I've had to date.

Still, Even with exacting standards, low deviation, and good Quality Control, I still think Topre is fleecing everyone with their prices. I can hardly bear to pay more than $100 for a keyboard.

I will say, though, that if I could try one, maybe it'd change my mind. As it is, I'll stick with BS and cherry. You can get Dvorak legends in both.

[phetto]

had a topre, didnt like it, sold it.

[Magna224]

Most of my friends are afraid of topres. They say that topres are too soft and smooth. Believe it or not tactile/clicky ALPS have been the favorite of anyone who has tried all of my keyboards.

[TacticalCoder]

I haven't tried a Topre keyboard (yet), but from lurking around here I haven't read of anyone who has used one and did not like it.

That's why I wasn't scared of buying a HHKB Pro 2: this forum is one of the place where people are the pickiest about keyboards and yet it's very uncommon to read about people not liking Topre.  There may be some, but you much more often hear about people loving their Topre.

I was a very long time buckling springs user and tried several other switches: white ALPS, Cherry MXs. Didn't really like them that much compared to my good old buckling springs. Then I bought an HHKB and now I'm using it nearly all the time (I still give some love to my Ms).

I did also figure out that in case I wouldn't like it I'd be able to resell it without losing too much money.

Now if only a split Trope using a (mostly) conventional layout existed (no, I don't like that really weird split Topre out there with a lot of weirdly located keys)...  Basically I'd love to have a "split HHKB" and I'd be willing to fork $$$$ to buy one

[tadbitnerdy]

If there were a 'KMAC' of Topre variety, or an aluminum case made for a Topre (idea for HHKB anyone)... then I will buy and try a topre.  Until then, I only have one keyboard with an acrylic case:  the ErgoDox.  Unless it is an MX-Mini or a GOM case, I just won't aluminum.  Yes, I'm a case snob now

-Tad

[Moosecraft]

If there were a 'KMAC' of Topre variety, or an aluminum case made for a Topre (idea for HHKB anyone)... then I will buy and try a topre.  Until then, I only have one keyboard with an acrylic case:  the ErgoDox.  Unless it is an MX-Mini or a GOM case, I just won't aluminum.  Yes, I'm a case snob now

-Tad

There is an aluminium case for realforce tkl, but it's like 450 dollars.

[tadbitnerdy]

Who makes it?

[Moosecraft]

Who makes it?

Koreans, I think they are available on ebay.

[AKIMbO]

Who makes it?

Digilog....only available on ebay.

[dante]

As someone who enjoys a few of HP's $5 [ebay] membrane specials - which have NOTHING in common with Dell - I have a preference towards 55g Topre over anything Cherry.

That said, for a fullsize board I would not buy a Realforce - I'd stick with domes.  So the pain in the pocket comes mostly from the availability of an ANSI Tenkeyless format - which there are are hardly any options for standard membrane.

If HP made a 80% SK2880 membrane, Realforce wouldn't even be on my radar.

[fateswarm]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

[SpAmRaY]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

So your saying if walmart sold topre keyboards they would be cheaper?


As for using a proxy service after fees it's not really cheaper than buying from www.elitekeyboards.com.

[fateswarm]

not really cheaper than buying from www.elitekeyboards.com.

Read what those people found out: http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/topre-introduces-new-type-heaven-keyboard-at-computex-t5903-30.html

[tp4tissue]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

when did koreans switch to euros?

[fateswarm]

when did koreans switch to euros?

http://www.xe.com

[tp4tissue]

when did koreans switch to euros?

http://www.xe.com

sigh... wooooooooooosh....

[morpheus]

I really love Topre, it's like nothing else...for me the dream switch.

But like everybody else says, it's a personal preference.

[fateswarm]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

So your saying if walmart sold topre keyboards they would be cheaper?


As for using a proxy service after fees it's not really cheaper than buying from www.elitekeyboards.com.

An example: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%9D%B1%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC-NG01B0-REALFORCE91UBK/dp/B000EQHU6M/

A new Realforce on offer for around $140. The forwarding address would get it for around that price plus the fee of the forwarder. As far as I know it's low.

[typo]

why a comparison thread every day? the op's question was really what lasts longer. I recently got a $200 cherry switch board. I think I can reasonably guess it will outlast 5 topre boards. I have worn out topre boards. the topre switch does feel nicer. comes with the territory. a Ferrari does not last as long as a Toyota.

[Polymer]

why a comparison thread every day? the op's question was really what lasts longer. I recently got a $200 cherry switch board. I think I can reasonably guess it will outlast 5 topre boards. I have worn out topre boards. the topre switch does feel nicer. comes with the territory. a Ferrari does not last as long as a Toyota.

If you go by the switch rating, I think Topre recently upped theirs to 50million....but even if it was half that, that is only twice as long.

The advantage with Cherry though, is you can (somewhat) easily fix your board or replace the switch..whereas with Topre they don't sell individual switches....

[sameer.wahid]

I had a Topre. The switches were nice, but it was a variable weight keyboard and I found the "a" key was weighted so lightly that I would accidentally press it regularly.  I have an AEB and a Leopold with Cherry Browns and now I don't have that problem.

I do recall the Topre was quieter than the Leopold/Cherry Browns when I bottom out.

[tadbitnerdy]

Oh crap, I finally found the digilog aluminum case for the realforce.  My wallet hates me, as i'm seriously considering this buy... DAMN YOU GEEKHACK!  (shakes fist)

[Sniping]

Oh crap, I finally found the digilog aluminum case for the realforce.  My wallet hates me, as i'm seriously considering this buy... DAMN YOU GEEKHACK!  (shakes fist)

I'm just sitting here waiting for WFD to announce that aluminum case he was going to make for the FC660C.

[skwan]

Not sure whether this have been hammered in enough, but ultimately the issue of topre vs cherry, is more of an issue of personal preference more than anything else.

That being said, objective factors that sets them apart that I can identify are:-
1. Topre doesn't have option for clicky (ie. sound at trigger, as opposed to bottom)
2. Topre is not as loud (in fact it sounds different, and some people live and die by the topre "thock")
3. Topre is smoother, and strokes where the force is applied at an angle is directed downwards better.
4. You will bottom out with Topre, most people who use topre bottoms out, you just do (I have yet to seen anyone type at 100+wpm on topre without bottoming out)
5. I havn't have my topre wear down on me yet, (3 years and counting, heavy usage daily), but i wouldn't be surprised if topre last less than cherry considering the mechanism involved, and i think their spec is also stated to be less
6. From my experience, topre keys weights are much less uniform than cherry, even if its stated to be all 45g (eg hhkb), they can vary significantly, at least much more than cherries, likely due to it being a rubber cup and not a spring (the spring is mostly for activating the switch, and only offer 5g of force).
7. Topre is a pain if you are looking for key caps to replace

If you are looking to justify the price of topre, don't bother.  I think a lot of people come here and think wow cherry is superior to rubber dome, i wonder would topre be the same leap above cherry (it certain costs that much more), and I think the answer is simply no.  Despite all the above factors listed, I think preferences for topre and cherry for most people just boils down to feel (do you prefer a linear spring (possibly with a bump), or a super smooth bell shaped bump).

Take my case for example, I type on topre exclusively for 3 years, and I STILL type faster on a cherry brown whenever i go on my brother's keyboard, but I just can't give up the smoothness.  The speed difference i attribute mostly to bottoming out (just FYI, i type about 110-120 wpm, and can peak at 130+)

[Danule]

Lots of people on here talking bad about a keyboard switch they have never tried...  Realforce is the best keyboard I have typed on (45g).  Some people don't like it, some do.  You have to try it first before you put it down.

Topre VS Cherry I would say topre feels better "smoother" more "refined"  Like a luxury car.

[SpAmRaY]

So I've been using an FC660C for about 3 hours and I would never say it is better than cherry mx just different. I do wish topre had more keycap options like MX and perhaps one day they will!!

[tp4tissue]

NONONONO... You guys are all making moot points

Ever since the release of the ergo dox.. The only relevant answer to Topre vs MX is... Do they make an ergodox with Topre switches.

Since the answer is NO..............   MX is the superior choice,  if simply because it dwells in the most compellingly ergonomic keyboard.


Don't bring up that crummy topre split option.. the staggered layout is RUIN...

[tns]

They most certainly are in my opinion.

Your profile picture says "no no no" 

[rowdy]

NONONONO... You guys are all making moot points

Ever since the release of the ergo dox.. The only relevant answer to Topre vs MX is... Do they make an ergodox with Topre switches.

Since the answer is NO..............   MX is the superior choice,  if simply because it dwells in the most compellingly ergonomic keyboard.


Don't bring up that crummy topre split option.. the staggered layout is RUIN...

So if there was an Ergo Dox with Topre, which would you prefer?