Typing comfort: ISO vs ANSI?

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Hi! What are your experiences with ISO vs ANSI keyboards? Do ANSI keyboards provide a more comfortable typing experience because of the symmetry?

[epzy]

Personal preference really. I use ISO because I'm Norwegian. I tried using ANSI for nearly 6 months, but I just couldn't get over the fact that the apostrofe key is in the middle of the enter/backspace keys. So for me, ISO is more comfortable to type on. If you're into keyboards, it's better to use ANSI, because you can easier get keycaps and there are more keyboards available in ANSI. A bit off-topic, but also keep in mind ISO keyboards usually are more expensive.

[davkol]

When I do something in LaTeX, backslash is easier to access on ISO. The extra key is useful as well, it makes wide-layout mods more straightforward.

OTOH, Enter and left Shift are closer to the home row on ANSI, thus it's a bit more convenient for people with short pinkies like me. Also, stabilizers aren't always done right especially on ISO or the big-ass Asian thing.

In the end, it doesn't matter though. ErgoDox FTW!

[Moosecraft]

I really like ansi enter key cluster. I wish there were more boards with ansi enter and short left shift so I could type my native language without autohotkey or custom boards.

[[esc]]

Personal preference really. I use ISO because I'm Norwegian. I tried using ANSI for nearly 6 months, but I just couldn't get over the fact that the apostrofe key is in the middle of the enter/backspace keys. So for me, ISO is more comfortable to type on. If you're into keyboards, it's better to use ANSI, because you can easier get keycaps and there are more keyboards available in ANSI. A bit off-topic, but also keep in mind ISO keyboards usually are more expensive.

Hi, I'm also Norwegian!  Nordic layout has become quite frustrating lately because i'm writing some LaTeX stuff. The extra æ, ø and å on the keyboard means there are very few keys to fit all the TeX syntax-specific characters like []{}\ So I switched to US-english layout on my ISO. I think I'll get an American laptop this summer and just switch over to ANSI for good. The thing that holds me back, of course, is that compromise of not being able to type the Norwegian characters as easily as before.

When I do something in LaTeX, backslash is easier to access on ISO. The extra key is useful as well, it makes wide-layout mods more straightforward.

OTOH, Enter and left Shift are closer to the home row on ANSI, thus it's a bit more convenient for people with short pinkies like me. Also, stabilizers aren't always done right especially on ISO or the big-ass Asian thing.

In the end, it doesn't matter though. ErgoDox FTW!

Hmm... I dont really know anything about colemak yet, but I see that I actually only loose one key if I switch to ANSI, and that's the key next to Z. This chart from deskthority illustrates it perfectly:



The long shift and enter looks really nice. I think it might actually be worth the switch to ANSI! An ErgoDox? What on earth could that be? Oh, wait... Whaat. Sick awesome!

I really like ansi enter key cluster. I wish there were more boards with ansi enter and short left shift so I could type my native language without autohotkey or custom boards.

Both keyboards have some really neat advantages and some really annoying disadvantages too. Seems no choice will be perfect :^/

[CJNE]

I made the switch from ISO (Swedish) to US-ansi a couple of years ago and i haven't regretted it. The main motivation was to get access to "coding" keys such as {}, [], ;,' without having to use modifier keys, and of course the superior placement of / on ansi, makes life in the terminal a bliss.

I've put the åäö on the same place as on swedish ansi but i have to hold down left alt when i type them.
When i type longer swedish text is usually just change to the swedish key layout and do my best to try and remember where the symbols are located.

I'm very happy with the switch, if you're programming a lot and/or do a lot of terminal work i would highly recommend it. And go for a Ansi keyboard as well.

[neun_sechs_zwei]

Ha, I'm the opposite—an American with an ISO keyboard. The extra 'section' key is now my escape key using KeyRemap4MacBook, and it's a bit nicer to hit the upper part of the large enter key by basically extending/uncurling the right hand.

[ideus]

I made the switch from ISO (Swedish) to US-ansi a couple of years ago and i haven't regretted it. The main motivation was to get access to "coding" keys such as {}, [], ;,' without having to use modifier keys, and of course the superior placement of / on ansi, makes life in the terminal a bliss.

I've put the åäö on the same place as on swedish ansi but i have to hold down left alt when i type them.
When i type longer swedish text is usually just change to the swedish key layout and do my best to try and remember where the symbols are located.

I'm very happy with the switch, if you're programming a lot and/or do a lot of terminal work i would highly recommend it. And go for a Ansi keyboard as well.

I am using ANSI to type in Spanish and French besides English and find it to be totally fine. But now that you pointed those coding keys it makes even more sense. I like the fat enter key on ISO but it is purely aesthetics, at least for me.

[Oobly]

I made the switch from ISO (Swedish) to US-ansi a couple of years ago and i haven't regretted it. The main motivation was to get access to "coding" keys such as {}, [], ;,' without having to use modifier keys, and of course the superior placement of / on ansi, makes life in the terminal a bliss.

I've put the åäö on the same place as on swedish ansi but i have to hold down left alt when i type them.
When i type longer swedish text is usually just change to the swedish key layout and do my best to try and remember where the symbols are located.

I'm very happy with the switch, if you're programming a lot and/or do a lot of terminal work i would highly recommend it. And go for a Ansi keyboard as well.

Very interesting post, thank you!


I think it's largely a personal thing, but here's why I like ISO:

I have used a few different layouts, but mostly ISO variants. For programming I found the ISO UK layout best. I'm really used to having the big Enter key right below Backspace, it kind of defines the right edge of the board, like space bar on the bottom. I want Space I hit the bottom somewhere, I want Enter I aim vaguely at the right edge.

The UK ISO layout puts the brackets, colons, quotes, etc in good places for coding. I also like the symmetry of the backslash / forward slash key positions. Finnish / Swedish layout is very awkward for this (lots of Shift and AltGr for commonly used characters).

For gaming, it's also nice to have the extra key next to shift within reach of the pinkie.

[tp4tissue]

Most of the pain comes from the wrist being twisted inwards...

and you get this strain feeling across the top of your forearms

this can only be alleviated by a keyboard that can be tilted... such as the Ergodox, or the upcoming Ergo Pro from matias.

[Findecanor]

A lot of people use the left pinky for Shift, even when typing with the left hand.
On ISO, that key is one step to the left compared to ANSI, and I think that that promotes having your entire left hand one step to the left compared to ANSI, thus making it harder to do proper touch typing.

That is just my theory. I don't touch-type properly myself.

[tp4tissue]

A lot of people use the left pinky for Shift, even when typing with the left hand.
On ISO, that key is one step to the left compared to ANSI, and I think that that promotes having your entire left hand one step to the left compared to ANSI, thus making it harder to do proper touch typing.

That is just my theory. I don't touch-type properly myself.

Most people just accept the keys as they are on their keyboards because they are either unaware, or un-invested in their typing-needs/experience..

You can remap the keys on ANY keyboard via keycode remap instead of hardware or interception based software mod..

That way there's no additional latency and uniformity throughout all pertinent programs.


I can say for certain that  to stick with the keyboard layout handed to you is ridiculous...

[CJNE]

Very interesting post, thank you!


I think it's largely a personal thing, but here's why I like ISO:

I have used a few different layouts, but mostly ISO variants. For programming I found the ISO UK layout best. I'm really used to having the big Enter key right below Backspace, it kind of defines the right edge of the board, like space bar on the bottom. I want Space I hit the bottom somewhere, I want Enter I aim vaguely at the right edge.

The UK ISO layout puts the brackets, colons, quotes, etc in good places for coding. I also like the symmetry of the backslash / forward slash key positions. Finnish / Swedish layout is very awkward for this (lots of Shift and AltGr for commonly used characters).

For gaming, it's also nice to have the extra key next to shift within reach of the pinkie.

Yes it all comes down to personal preference in the end. Nice to see that we agree on Swedish/Finnish layout is really bad for programming .
When i did the switch i also changed to a physical Ansi keyboard and for me the return key was a lot easier to get used to than the placement of backspace on that board (one row below the normal placement).

I'll admit that it was probably mostly me wanting the HHKB so bad that drove me to also use physical Ansi, US/UK layout on an Iso board sound like a good option.

Now that i'm adjusted it's time to move on, i've got an Ergodox on it's way now, new challenges to overcome, and what possibilities!

[Zeal]

It's really dependent on which layout you're accustomed to.

For me, trying to type and game with a short LShift key found on ISO is a nightmare. I'd always hit \ when I try to reach for shift. Same goes problem applies for Enter. Some ISO keyboards also have that really tiny backspace [1 unit] and it just kills my pinky trying to reach for it!

Aesthetic wise, I find that ANSI looks "prettier" and more uniform. All the keys are rectangular whereas ISO has that weird-looking upside down "J". To each their own though, and I'm sure my opinions are biased ) I'm sure ISO users will find our ANSI layout awkward.

[davkol]

Threads like this would be much less confusing, if people actually knew, what exactly ISO means, when it comes to physical keyboard layouts. Read ISO/IEC 9995, please.

[CJNE]

I read (glanced) it, now i'm more confused  )
The return key is recommended to span two rows but not required to do so, for example.

[TheSoulhunter]

Native ISO here, but I switched to ANSI about 10 years ago,
partly because of comfort, but also because of keycap sourcing

[tp4tissue]

In terms of usage iso and ansi is really the same...

major problems

Shift is  one row down on both sides

Hand lift for backspace


Non of the other differences between them really change anything in terms of usage..


Ideally shift should be where the capslock key is and where the " :" key is...

This is the ideal setup for the Shift function...   even though this way shift will only be a 1.5x on the left and 1x on the right...

[1pq]

Does anyone ever even use the right shift? I don't except for certain shortcuts.

[Zeal]

Does anyone ever even use the right shift? I don't except for certain shortcuts.

You're supposed to when typing "properly"  but I find myself always going for the left shift

[tp4tissue]

Does anyone ever even use the right shift? I don't except for certain shortcuts.

You're supposed to when typing "properly"  but I find myself always going for the left shift

The reason people NEVER use the right shift, is because it's much slower than going for the left shift..


Try swapping ": " colon for   right shift.. .You'll find yourself using it all the time...

also swap  Capslock for " left shift"..


This will really help you develop "fast shifting.."

And it will feel way more comfortable to use..

because you won't have to bend your wrist downward in such an awkward position to shift. 

Just do it real quick on you keyboard right now, for experimental sake..


if the shift key is RIGHT there, at your pinky where the caps lock key is... It's very very convenient and comfortable on your wrist..


same goes for making the " :" right shift.

[1pq]

Does anyone ever even use the right shift? I don't except for certain shortcuts.

You're supposed to when typing "properly"  but I find myself always going for the left shift

The reason people NEVER use the right shift, is because it's much slower than going for the left shift..


Try swapping ": " colon for   right shift.. .You'll find yourself using it all the time...

also swap  Capslock for " left shift"..


This will really help you develop "fast shifting.."

And it will feel way more comfortable to use..

because you won't have to bend your wrist downward in such an awkward position to shift. 

Just do it real quick on you keyboard right now, for experimental sake..


if the shift key is RIGHT there, at your pinky where the caps lock key is... It's very very convenient and comfortable on your wrist..


same goes for making the " :" right shift.

I can't actually, because my ':' key is currently an 'O' (I use colemak). In "proper typing technique," though, when exactly are you supposed to use the right shift over the left?

[davkol]

Does anyone ever even use the right shift? I don't except for certain shortcuts.

You're supposed to when typing "properly"  but I find myself always going for the left shift

The reason people NEVER use the right shift, is because it's much slower than going for the left shift..


Try swapping ": " colon for   right shift.. .You'll find yourself using it all the time...

also swap  Capslock for " left shift"..


This will really help you develop "fast shifting.."

And it will feel way more comfortable to use..

because you won't have to bend your wrist downward in such an awkward position to shift. 

Just do it real quick on you keyboard right now, for experimental sake..


if the shift key is RIGHT there, at your pinky where the caps lock key is... It's very very convenient and comfortable on your wrist..


same goes for making the " :" right shift.

I can't actually, because my ':' key is currently an 'O' (I use colemak). In "proper typing technique," though, when exactly are you supposed to use the right shift over the left?

One hand presses a key, the other hand holds the modifier. No more awkward bending wrists or stretching fingers, and more even effort distribution.

[tp4tissue]

Does anyone ever even use the right shift? I don't except for certain shortcuts.

You're supposed to when typing "properly"  but I find myself always going for the left shift

The reason people NEVER use the right shift, is because it's much slower than going for the left shift..


Try swapping ": " colon for   right shift.. .You'll find yourself using it all the time...

also swap  Capslock for " left shift"..


This will really help you develop "fast shifting.."

And it will feel way more comfortable to use..

because you won't have to bend your wrist downward in such an awkward position to shift. 

Just do it real quick on you keyboard right now, for experimental sake..


if the shift key is RIGHT there, at your pinky where the caps lock key is... It's very very convenient and comfortable on your wrist..


same goes for making the " :" right shift.

I can't actually, because my ':' key is currently an 'O' (I use colemak). In "proper typing technique," though, when exactly are you supposed to use the right shift over the left?

One hand presses a key, the other hand holds the modifier. No more awkward bending wrists or stretching fingers, and more even effort distribution.

all right handed capital letters are using  left shift on  the left hand

all left handed capital letters are using  right shift on  the right hand

[tototo]

I really like the ANSI layout for the Enter key but dislike the left Shift being so long. Seems I would need a GH60 to get ANSI enter and ISO Shift+extra key. Would be the my perfect layout.

[Findecanor]

Yes it all comes down to personal preference in the end. Nice to see that we agree on Swedish/Finnish layout is really bad for programming .

Heh. I am used to using Swedish/Finnish for programming.... but I am very very dependent on the right Alt / Alt Gr being in the correct position.

[daetsid]

I use an ISO keyboard with an ANSI cap set and I love it. It has the best of both

[ideus]

Using an ANSI keyboard to type in English, French, and Spanish. No issues so far after like 2 years. No conflicts while using my laptop keyboard also. Minor changes in the layout is I switched caps lock with left control, and right alt with altgr, using SharpKeys.

[JPG]

I like both, even if I am quite new to Iso. I definitely prefer the spacebar row in Iso, yet I prefer a little the enter and shift keys on ANSI.


They are both good for me, more so if you can remap your keys!


Edit: the Iso layout I talk about is the one on my F122, so the spacebar row is 1.5,empty 1x, 1.5,7x,1.5,1x empty,1.5 (I assume the 7x, but not 100% sure)

[Pacifist]

ISO has that 1 extra key, does that help with ergonomics?

[tototo]

ISO has that 1 extra key, does that help with ergonomics?

Both yes and no. I would like to see the short left shift (+extra key) from ISO but keep the long enter on ANSI. Would make it easier to hit enter with the right pinky and '\' with the left pinky from being next to the left Shift. Hope it makes sense.

Makes me think I will eventually have to build my own 60% board and loose the ability to easily get custom keycaps.

[davkol]

ISO has that 1 extra key, does that help with ergonomics?

It allows shift of the bottom row by one key to the left, to compensate for staggering, and it works great with "wide" logical layouts (right-hand keys shifted by one column to the right to create one-column gap in the middle).

For a good example, see angle/wide mods in the DreymaR's Big Bag of Tricks.

If you can't get an ergonomic keyboard w/ symmetrical layout, I'd say it's a big deal.