Author Topic: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback  (Read 14551 times)

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Offline XMIT

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XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:10:01 »
I recently received this feedback from geekhack forum member HighPlainsDrafter who, for their sake, I tried to keep anonymous. I did this out of respect for their privacy but their continued threats forced my hand.

HighPlainsDrafter wrote, via personal message:

Quote
You gang-raped my wallet with your ill-tested recent massdrop of the keyboard. Surely you knew you'd screwed up on the prototypes' keys being ridiculously light.
Yet for whatever reason -- pigheaded pride, greed, or incompetent behavior, you chose to stubbornly march ahead instead of fixing the design flaw.

Damn you for gang-raping our wallets. How will you ever repay us loyal enthusiasts? You took advantage of our belief and screwed us. Damn you, damn you, damn you!

I know I'm not out of bounds on this, as evidence by the public and private notes angrily agreeing with me. Don't bother privately replying -- it won't be read. You've lost the opportunity. Instead, make it up to the many others echoing my disgust at your asinine behavior in going through with the product at full speed instead of properly holding until you'd fixed the issue. You son of a *****.

I don't quite know what to say to this. I've received much feedback on the boards through multiple forums, and am aware of many issues that I am working to fix. The majority of folks who purchased an XMIT Hall Effect Board, including many close friends, have been delighted with them. I have heard from many folks who are not so happy with their boards and, when able, have addressed their concerns directly.

This stands alone as the first - and hopefully last - ad hominem attack I've received, in response to trying to bring this board to the community. I read the first two paragraphs as humorous, but was disturbed by the time I got to the end of the third.

I feel that I've been transparent every step of the way.

The only meaningful feedback I can offer, HighPlainsDrafter, is this: if you have a particular concern with the board that I may address in a future revision, please let me know and I will gladly add it to my errata. I think your concern here was with the spring weights, and I regret any confusion between actuation and bottom-out weights. There is a chance replacement springs will be available in the future.

Please contact Massdrop support for repair, replacement, or refund options. We will cheerfully refund your money if that is the only path to satisfaction.

If anyone else agrees with this forum member - as implied by the "private notes agreeing with me" line -  please reply here.
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 March 2017, 07:23:22 by XMIT »

Offline chuckdee

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:25:17 »
You've put in a lot of work on this- work that wasn't reflected nor compensated fully in the pricing, just by way of the time you've spent alone.  People have issues- that will always happen.  People will have criticisms, and that will likewise happen, and shouldn't be discouraged.  But this?  This should definitely be discouraged.  There's ways of communicating, and ways not to communicate.  This is the latter.

Offline Moistgun

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:27:23 »
Haters gonna hate loledit
« Last Edit: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:30:48 by Moistgun »

Offline ImpendingxDoom

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:46:00 »
Hey XMIT! I echo the sentiment that the switches are light. I have the 70g, and it fells like a step lighter than any MX black I've ever typed on (aka distinctly NOT 70g). I assume this is because the nature of the switches are different. It would make logical sense that the weight of a spring would lead to a universal resistance across any medium, but this Hall Effect board is definitely proof that that is not true. I'm sure the fact that this was manufactured relatively cheaply in China is doing nothing to help your case, but I can't imagine it wouldn't be anywhere near relatively affordable otherwise.

Unfortunately I have had many minor and major injuries to my hands and wrist due to my profession. This means that typing on light or excessively heavy switches can become very uncomfortable after a short period of time. The "70g" board is light enough that I bottom out hard, and it became painful to type at a normal intensity to me. If I consciously think about it I can type just fine , but I would definitely prefer to not have to worry about it.

THAT BEING SAID

No real problems with function or quality of the board. I am actually grateful to have the experience of using a magnetic switch. Never had the pleasure of a vintage Hall Effect crossing my desk. Now I know what this kind of actuation looks, feels, and sounds like (albeit light). For the price, I got what I wanted out of it.

Goddamn for the first run of a board, hiccups are the ****ing price of admission.






Just ask my DOA Poker X, mysteriously shorting L3 1800, or any number of MX blues THAT WON'T ****ING CLICK. ****

Offline Niomosy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:47:02 »
XMIT, you've put a lot of work into this board.  I knew what I was getting into when I bought this board and accepted the risks associated with it to be able to finally get my hands on an already working, Cherry MX compatible, hall effect keyboard.

I've watched your handling of some bad boards.  You have nothing to be ashamed of. 

Offline schoolbus

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:50:25 »
Eh, people are always going to troll and be negative. New products will always have problems, and risks are always prevalent especially when dealing with foreign vendors. To say you've "gang-raped" wallets is obviously some clearly misinformed person who is speaking on emotion, not on fact.

The product has its flaws, and you've acknowledged that. In addition, you've been overly transparent and based on your communication you're trying your best to address and fix the problems at hand in an incredibly concise and organized manner.

Whoever messaged you this clearly doesn't understand the real world (is likely trolling) and unfortunately further illustrates that one of the biggest problems with this community is entitlement. Since your board was provided through massdrop, refunds are an option so if that person is so upset, they should have the adequate means to solve their problem rather than spew negativity.

Keep up the good work, this is a natural part of product development and all things considered the product is pretty impressive, especially at the price you offered it.
« Last Edit: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:53:37 by schoolbus »
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Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:53:58 »
Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.

@ImpendingxDoom, congrats, you get to be a beta tester for the 85g springs I'm planning to offer next time. You're not the first to say that even the 70g springs are light. Also I'll change what I call them publicly to match actuation weights. Thanks manufacturers refer to them by their bottoming out weights.

Offline Halverson

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 23:57:03 »
Daaaaaamnnnn. Someone sounds salty.

Offline klennkellon

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 00:15:22 »
Consider it a ****ty first generation. It can only get better from here mate.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 01:12:55 »
Not even sure it's a ****ty first generation.  I'd deem it problematic but certainly not ****ty.  Agreed that things can only improve from here, at least so long as the Chinese company is willing to step up.  Hopefully that's the case and others can enjoy some hall effect keyboard goodness.

On a side note, the more I type on the 50g springs, the more I'm tempted to switch them out for the 70g springs.  They're definitely lighter than reds as I A/B them with my Ducky with MX reds.

Offline HWGuy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 01:49:07 »
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

Offline chyros

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 02:18:45 »
I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline dantan

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 03:13:08 »
I don't think there is a problem here. There are always people with strong feelings, and you can't please everyone. In fact if you got zero people with strong feelings, it would be very strange.

The purpose of a massdrop refund is to take care of the people with strong feelings.

I personally feel better that some people hate XMIT's board. That means it is a real board that people have used and was found to be less than satisfactory for some people. If nobody said anything it would be as though everyone had a lukewarm response "I guess it's an okay board, now let me put it back into the box and see what's the next interesting drop."

Offline Niomosy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 03:23:15 »
I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .

The 50g springs are pretty light.  It's taking me some getting used to along with more typos than I'm used to getting while I type.  That I've got some SA caps on, which I haven't typed on in a while, probably isn't helping things, but even before that, the 50g caps felt rather light to type on.

Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 07:02:55 »
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 07:12:51 »
I recently received this feedback from a geekhack forum member who, for their sake, shall remain anonymous.

Quote
I know I'm not out of bounds on this, as evidence by the public and private notes angrily agreeing with me. Don't bother privately replying -- it won't be read. You've lost the opportunity. Instead, make it up to the many others echoing my disgust at your asinine behavior in going through with the product at full speed instead of properly holding until you'd fixed the issue. You son of a *****.

"People share my exact view privately" is as old as usenet.

I see no reason why this person should remain anonymous.  Expressing discontent is one thing.  Being an ******* about it is something else, and it should be exposed and apologized for or excised from the community.


(Edit: You updated while I was typing.  Good on you for exposing HighPlainsDrafter.)
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 March 2017, 07:19:04 by E TwentyNine »
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Offline dantan

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 07:38:48 »
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.


I am inclined to treat this less seriously thanks to the threat. This guy is clearly unbalanced.

Think for a moment. If it didn't involve something that you are personally emotionally involved with, would you have taken it seriously?

Here's an imitation:
XMIT, you are a filthy cockroach who has scammed thousands of people. Thousands of people agree with me that you're a parasite and below our contempt. WE're going to punish you with the utmost severity, and tie you up in lawsuits from China to Chile, until there is no place on earth where you can set foot without being slapped with a subpoena. We will make sure that injunctions are issued against you in every jurisdiction, and you will be banned from paypal and from every means of taking anybody's money henceforth. If you are not banned, I'll find every excuse to sue your employer until they fire you.

Exaggerated, emotional, irrational and unreasonable. Surely you have come across mentally unbalanced people in your daily life, and there is nothing you can do about it. I was once chased for a mile by this woman insisting that I'd thrown dirty water at her, and she just didn't want to hear that a passing cyclist had gone through a puddle at high speed next to her. Eventually I realized that she needed to vent at me, because there was no way she could have caught up with that cyclist.

Dale Carnegie would probably have advised you to apologize profusely to this guy and massage his ego, and he would calm down and maybe even start praising you. I personally wouldn't have been able to stomach massaging this guy's ego, but then again I am not Dale Carnegie.

Offline Sissy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 07:53:18 »
Well that sure is not the right way to behave.

Offline schoolbus

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 08:38:10 »
Well that escalated quickly. Sounds like someone needs to lay off the keyboards and get some actual mental help if being able to refund a $110 keyboard is causing them this much mental stress.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 08:41:04 »
The takeaway for me is that I still want one of these badly, but will probably go with the 70g springs now.

The only "criticism" I could find in the complaint was that the springs were too light.
That seems like a rather small issue in the grand scheme of things.

However, I too had missed the point that these were bottom-out weights rather than actuation. That does make a difference.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline merlin64

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 10:35:45 »
How much was the board? Wasn't it like ~$100 USD? Don't we have Buyer Beware notices when it comes to GB? Was this the first GB he participated in? Wow that's a very extreme "complaint". Even if Xmit was 100% in the wrong, there's no room for threats like that. It's...just a keyboard...

Offline Puddsy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 12:33:15 »
Caveat Emptor.
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Offline Bucake

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 13:13:41 »
those are some ugly messages. good to see you respond in a respectable fashion xmit, it's a real shame your work had to bring this kind of frustration on your plate
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Offline chyros

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 17:32:50 »
I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .

The 50g springs are pretty light.  It's taking me some getting used to along with more typos than I'm used to getting while I type.  That I've got some SA caps on, which I haven't typed on in a while, probably isn't helping things, but even before that, the 50g caps felt rather light to type on.
They are, but I kinda like them. They feel responsive for me while not actuating sporadically too much, and I could swear they feel smoother than the 70 g springs.

Also, I have to say this sort of behaviour is absolutely appalling, not just considering these circumstances, but under ANY circumstances. Moreover, I don't even share the (actually rather measly ("they're too light") objections. I was aware the 70 gf was a bottom-out weight, as well, it wasn't kept a secret or anything.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 17:37:52 »
Well.. we don't have the full correspondence between XMIT and HighPlainsDrafter ..


It's possible XMIT was being a **** in his PRIOR exchanges with HPD, which sparked this rather intense dislike..

--NOT saying XMIT was,  just that it is possible.--

Either way, this thread is XMIT's hedge against HPD coming here and starting a negative thread which frames HPD as a victim..


The politics at least is pretty clear..   


Offline Tally810

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 17:38:06 »
I don't own one of these but I did try a couple at the Austin meetup and they are very unique and I think what you have done is quite an accomplishment.  They way you are on the "ground floor" personally taking in all complaints is actually quite admirable and I think you are handling this very well.  This was a new design and a first run of an untested product for 100 bucks so hiccups are to be expected.  Whoever thought they were getting a 100 percent tested 5th gen polished product is just silly.  You brought something new to us enthusiasts and I think it's great.  Keep up the good work bud.

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Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 18:01:55 »
This is pretty much it. The only prior correspondence was back in November when he told me he made an error with his order (which I forwarded to MD support), and a few days ago when he expressed concern and disappointment at the spring weights on the Massdrop discussion (where I did not reply immediately but again directed him to Massdrop support).

He seems to think that I personify the boards and all issues go to me. That's simply not true. For every issue he mentioned to me, I was near powerless to do anything. Any frustration should be directed to Massdrop.

I did ping MD and they are reviewing the case. I hope he opts for a refund and that we can all move beyond this.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 19:20:49 »
This is pretty much it. The only prior correspondence was back in November when he told me he made an error with his order (which I forwarded to MD support), and a few days ago when he expressed concern and disappointment at the spring weights on the Massdrop discussion (where I did not reply immediately but again directed him to Massdrop support).

He seems to think that I personify the boards and all issues go to me. That's simply not true. For every issue he mentioned to me, I was near powerless to do anything. Any frustration should be directed to Massdrop.

I did ping MD and they are reviewing the case. I hope he opts for a refund and that we can all move beyond this.

Next one ya'll do..

Gotta put in BOLD,  Bottom out weight 50 grams..

hahahahahahaha

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 19:56:57 »
It would be very helpful to hear comparisons by people who have both and own various Alps and Cherry linear switches who could describe and compare the relative "perceived" weight of the 50g and 70g HE models to commonly known quantities.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline HWGuy

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 18 March 2017, 21:06:18 »
I mean don't these boards have very little actual housing in them? Comparatively - while the actual newton force to depress them might be the same as say a cherry or topre board, the initial friction of the key presses might be vastly different. Same total force needed, but begins moving much earlier than say, a 45g MX Brown.

That's the only thing I can think of - less moving parts means less friction.

Offline MJ45

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 05:44:10 »
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT
Maybe Massdrop should refund this dude and include some........

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 06:42:49 »
Honestly, verify the contents of these PMs and ban this toxic *******. Personal attacks like this, public or private, should not be tolerated.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 09:04:44 »
A meme depicting a single individual who "gang-raped my wallet" would be amusing.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 09:49:59 »
Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.

There's not even an industry standard — a lot of vintage switch specifications don't tell you what the specified weight actually represents. Sometimes it's the bottom out weight, and sometimes it's the actuation weight. Sometimes it's nonsense.

SMK J-M0404 "operation force" is cited as "90 grams ± 20%" and "90 ± 30 g" on the same page and these are not even equivalent. The switch is linear (which is not explained) so you could determine the actuation force (using the stated pretravel figures) if you also have the preload of the spring!

The contemporary General Instrument Series S950 (their version of Alps SKCC) cites the "operating force" as "60 grams", but no preload or terminal force.

The SMK switch is surprisingly also only 3 mm travel, so even if the preload and terminal force are typical, the gradient is steeper as a result. S950 has more travel at 3.6 mm, so that will be easier to press. I did notice that the SMK switches seemed quite heavy, even though the weight wasn't unusually high.

Only with experience you learn what questions to ask, as you realise where the ambiguities lie. Without experience or good guidance, it's easy to make really bad assumptions about the meaning of ambiguous specifications. Linear switches follow y=mx+c and so long as you remember that, you'll remember that knowing a single co-ordinate won't tell you the whole equation. The equation can be derived from any two points on the line: two forces, and two corresponding distances (any of: preload at 0 mm, actuation force at pretravel, and force at full travel).

Ideally, you'd be given all the figures: travel distance, preload, force at actuation, tactile force (if applicable), peak force (if different) and terminal force. Even better would be a force curve, but those have always been rare. Regardless of their inaccuracy, they're not usually even given by manufacturers.
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Offline justinmtype

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 09:58:43 »
Honestly, verify the contents of these PMs and ban this toxic *******. Personal attacks like this, public or private, should not be tolerated.

Report to the mods.

Offline ImpendingxDoom

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 10:15:49 »
Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.

@ImpendingxDoom, congrats, you get to be a beta tester for the 85g springs I'm planning to offer next time. You're not the first to say that even the 70g springs are light. Also I'll change what I call them publicly to match actuation weights. Thanks manufacturers refer to them by their bottoming out weights.

Awesome! TBH I haven't used another board since the Hall effect got here. :D

The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT

Sweet baby jesus I haven't seen delusions like this in a long time. I 100% agree that a personal attack forfeits the courtesy of anonymity, no one should be able to get away with acting like that.

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1497
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 12:40:15 »
Wow, just wow. It really blows my mind how some people can act so crassly & feel so entitled. I mean I'm no angel myself but I am a firm believer of treating others as you want to be treated yourself, especially within the 1st few interactions with someone. HighPlainsDrafter is way out of line here IMO, even more so considering it seems his board is working fine & it's just the switch weighting he has an issue with. If if he really feels that unsatisfied just return the damn thing to MD & be done with it, he's acting like he got burned but can easily get his money back. Absolutely no need to attack someone like that & over what is really a non issue to make it that much worse to me. It's like a spoiled rotten toddler that didn't get the toy they wanted on Christmas...

Don't let it get to you XMIT, me & many other community members think you did a great job bringing these boards to us. I think that PM is just the rantings of a spoiled, over entitled a-hole to be frank about it. I got your back on this & am sure many others do as well. Keep up the good work & don't let the haters get you down! :thumb:
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 March 2017, 12:41:50 by Rob27shred »

Offline digi

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 12:55:37 »
This kid is just mad that he didn't buy a Realforce...it happens all the time Xmit, don't worry.

Offline taylorswiftttttt

  • Posts: 30
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 13:34:58 »
removed
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 November 2022, 19:41:49 by taylorswiftttttt »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 17:02:59 »
Most of his abusive diatribe is just par for the course on the internet, But the personal threat against XMIT is unacceptable. Mods should verify PMs and then ban

you have 11 posts.. and yet you see the whole picture as to request the banning of someone you don't even know..


I am reporting your post and requesting a ban from the mods..


hahahahahahaha

Offline Captainbuttmonkey

  • Posts: 319
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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 17:33:49 »
This guy sounds like he has spent too much time on 4chan and just discovered a thesaurus. I wouldn't pay too much attention if I were you XMIT.

Offline taylorswiftttttt

  • Posts: 30
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 18:07:41 »
removed
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 November 2022, 19:42:15 by taylorswiftttttt »

Offline mniels

  • Posts: 164
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 18:14:29 »

I am reporting your post and requesting a ban from the mods..


hahahahahahaha

Since you've been around so long, maybe you should have read the rules :thumb:

Show Image



Touche.

Offline oneproduct

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 21:02:07 »
It would be very helpful to hear comparisons by people who have both and own various Alps and Cherry linear switches who could describe and compare the relative "perceived" weight of the 50g and 70g HE models to commonly known quantities.

I have a preference for light switches, so I mostly use cherry brown and red (though I also have black, blue, buckling spring, beam spring, space invaders and matias linear). One of my brown keyboards is variable weight in topre style, with most of the stock springs replaced with lighter ones. I bought the 50g XMIT keyboard and it's definitely lighter in feeling than stock browns and reds. I love it though. In general, my experience in the forums here leads me to believe that most people prefer heavier switches on average though, so I can understand people not being a fan of the lightness.
Layout: Colemak
Fastest typing speed: 131 WPM on typeracer, 136 WPM on 10fastfingers.
Daily driver: Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown with ergonomically weighted, lubed springs.
Ergo keyboards: Truly Ergonomic, Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox

Offline phoible

  • Posts: 108
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 19 March 2017, 23:03:02 »
I ordered a keyboard with 50g springs, and it is pretty light, although not to the point of being unusable. I'm happy with the board, although I haven't had much time to use it (one problem with having too many keyboards). It's my first RGB board, and the backlighting is pretty cool, although probably not all that useful (which is why I don't have any other RGB boards and my only other backlit board is my Whitefox).

The only screw up on my order is that the 70g springs I ordered weren't included (I filed a ticket with Massdrop, which I hope they will resolve, although the extra springs were only $5, so it isn't a huge deal).

Overall, I think that XMIT did a good job, especially for a first run of a custom board. Looking forward to future improvements in both firmware and hardware.


Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 00:22:49 »
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

I've got both in front of me.  The 50g XMIT board is definitely lighter than the 45g Cherry MX Reds.  It's clearly noticeable as well.  The XMIT board needs a very light touch for activation.  Like XMIT said, the 50g on the hall effect switches isn't the activation point.  It honestly feels like MX linear switches with maybe 35g activation.  Reds are definitely heavier.

Most seem to be saying that the 70g are somewhere between MX Reds and MX Blacks.  Personally I'd probably go for some 60g springs for the XMIT board but I've yet to try the 70g springs to be able to fully figure out what I like on the new hall effect boards.

Offline HWGuy

  • Posts: 10
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 01:26:59 »
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

I've got both in front of me.  The 50g XMIT board is definitely lighter than the 45g Cherry MX Reds.  It's clearly noticeable as well.  The XMIT board needs a very light touch for activation.  Like XMIT said, the 50g on the hall effect switches isn't the activation point.  It honestly feels like MX linear switches with maybe 35g activation.  Reds are definitely heavier.

Most seem to be saying that the 70g are somewhere between MX Reds and MX Blacks.  Personally I'd probably go for some 60g springs for the XMIT board but I've yet to try the 70g springs to be able to fully figure out what I like on the new hall effect boards.

I made a speculation a few posts after that that this is probably due to the fact the actual switch itself has very few moving parts in it. The total force required may be 50g, but it also means that there is very little ramp up of initial force due to how hall sensor switches work - that's my best guess.

Offline SpecTP

  • Posts: 93
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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:12:54 »
seriously.. that guy needs mental help.

I have the 70g springs and I have posted on MD that they felt light. But overall, I am satisfied with the product I paid for. It's a solid keyboard to game on.

Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:30:12 »
Maybe it would be helpful to post the Hall effect force curves and similar Cherry MX force curves. I've mentioned these in the past, and, the full data is available at https://plot.ly/~haata .

First, let's compare the 50g Hall springs with Cherry MX Red.

163452-0
163454-1

My "50g" springs start with about 20g of force at 0mm and finally hit 45g of force at 4.5mm (long travel!). By comparison, Cherry MX Red starts with about 30g of force at 0mm and hits about 55g of force at 3.8mm. So, we can say with certainty: the 50g springs are lighter than Cherry MX Red.

Second, let's have a look at the 70g springs, and modern Cherry MX Black.

163456-2
163462-3
(from https://plot.ly/~haata/72/cherry-mx-black/)

My "50g" springs start with about 10g of force at 0mm and finally hit 65g of force at 4.5mm (again, long travel!). By comparison, Cherry MX Black starts with about 40g of force at 0mm and hits about 75g of force at 4.0mm. So, we can say with certainty, too: the 70g springs are lighter than Cherry MX Black, but heavier than Cherry MX Red.

These plots are dated in early December of 2016. I answered some questions about spring weights in pre-purchase discussions, but sadly, this data was only posted after the drop closed. But it is data - it is fact - and I consider it to be authoritative.

If someone who purchased the board is unhappy with the spring weights they would be bester served by either reselling the board on the open market, or if there is some additional concern, reaching out to Massdrop support for guidance.

I hope this clarifies any remaining confusion on the spring weights.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:59:12 by XMIT »

Offline chyros

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:35:34 »
One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:48:24 »
One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.

Yeah, but HaaTa doesn't have force curves for modern blacks yet and I wanted an apples for apples comparison on the same test fixture.

Offline chyros

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:51:12 »
One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.

Yeah, but HaaTa doesn't have force curves for modern blacks yet and I wanted an apples for apples comparison on the same test fixture.
He does, doesn't he? Oo They're just called MX blacks if memory serves.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:53:15 »
One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.

Yeah, but HaaTa doesn't have force curves for modern blacks yet and I wanted an apples for apples comparison on the same test fixture.
He does, doesn't he? Oo They're just called MX blacks if memory serves.

Oh I see what's going on. The data is there at https://plot.ly/~haata/73 but there is no plot.

Feel free to make one if you want. :thumb:

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 532
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:54:08 »
https://plot.ly/~haata/72 is for the modern mx black as far as I know.

Offline XMIT

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:55:54 »
https://plot.ly/~haata/72 is for the modern mx black as far as I know.

Don't know why I couldn't find that earlier. I'll go update my earlier post now... updated.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 March 2017, 10:59:34 by XMIT »

Offline chyros

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 12:09:30 »
https://plot.ly/~haata/72 is for the modern mx black as far as I know.

Don't know why I couldn't find that earlier. I'll go update my earlier post now... updated.
I was just about to post this; it's the only plot that's under "load more files" xD . That's probably why it didn't show up for you.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 12:55:48 »
I haven't been able to score a clean 3rd gen Fujitsu leaf spring.  How does it compare to either the 50g or 70g HE?

Offline chyros

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 14:43:52 »
I haven't been able to score a clean 3rd gen Fujitsu leaf spring.  How does it compare to either the 50g or 70g HE?
FLS is smoother.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline ander

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 23:29:45 »
I love hanging out in the MK world. But let's face it, it's also full of eccentrically, sometimes epically, picky people.

I'm not saying you have to be on the autism scale to enjoy MKs. However, it's a well-known fact that people with obsessive personalities are often drawn to small, precise things—and what's an MK a collection of? Yep. The colors and textures of of key caps, the loudness and tone of clicks, the exact heights at which switches actuate... For sure, it's fun stuff—but for some people, it can involve pathological levels of preoccupation. That's just a fact.

Social media notwithstanding, typing is also an intrinsically solitary activity. So it's not unusual for people who arrange their lives around something like MKs to be essentially solitary, people who've arranged everything in their lives just so. If something upsets that balance—even if they just perceive it that way—they can lash out unpredictably and irrationally. If something they've hyper-focused on isn't how they expected it to be, they may feel like their world's careening out of control.

So you have to take this kind of thing with a grain of salt. When you get involved in a community like this, you'll almost certainly come in contact with people to whom MKs mean more than virtually anything else, including other people.

And if you take the extraordinary step of designing and producing your own MK-related products, and offering them to this community, you're opening yourself up to everyone's expectations, no matter how unrealistic or potentially volatile they may be.

You can just imagine the rants  customer service people at keyboard companies regularly receive. But those people aren't functioning as members of a KB community. They're hired to handle problems and complaints all day, every day. When a customer's irate, they can isolate themselves from the emotion, open the protocol policies their company has issued to them, follow the numbers, then forget about it and take the next call. XMIT doesn't have that luxury; he's one of us.

So I think it's important to keep in mind that nothing really unusual is going on here. It's just the context in which it's happening.

With any new product—not to mention, one that's this kind of new—there will always be people who like it and people who don't. The people who don't may have legitimate complaints (e.g. obvious defects, shipping damage), or they may have created an inaccurate or unrealistic image of the product in their minds. Or it may just work or look different from what they'd prefer. And as it's pointed out here every day: Typing feel and visual aesthetics are highly subjective.

XMIT's a very smart guy. I'm sure he realized what he might be wading into when he decided to take this project on. He did it anyway, and he's being as open and accommodating as he can.

Since I plugged in my XMIT board, I've gotten nothing but pleasure from it. (I'm typing on it now.) To me, it looks, feels, and operates just great, and knowing it has HE switches is a true geeky thrill. The facts that it's also my only RGB board, and my only board with a natural wood case, are just bonuses.

No, I didn't expect it to be perfect. The case is a bit rough here and there (it is, after all, natural wood), and the spacebar's noisier than I expected. But remember, these are virtual prototypes of a kind of board few of us have ever seen, much less gotten to use. Despite the quirks, IMHO we're lucky to get in on the first wave of them. And XMIT clearly values our feedback, as long as we're able to communicate it constructively. To me, that's a thrill too, to be involved such an interesting board's evolution.

So I'm willing to support XMIT however I can, so he can keep moving forward. I'm sorry not everyone feels that way—but unfortunately, some people will always be so wrapped up in their own precise little worlds, you can't make them step back and see a bigger picture. There isn't a single entrepreneur in the world who doesn't have to deal with that. It's the reason most of us spend our lives working for other people and letting them take up the slack.


I echo the sentiment that the switches are light. I have the 70g, and it fells like a step lighter than any MX black I've ever typed on (aka distinctly NOT 70g). I assume this is because the nature of the switches are different. It would make logical sense that the weight of a spring would lead to a universal resistance across any medium, but this Hall Effect board is definitely proof that that is not true...

That's a great, objective viewpoint. As far as I know, after reliability, HE switches are all about smoothness. How much smoother can you get than simply having to move a magnet a few millimeters perpendicular to an electrical current?

To me, these switches's pressure falls between that of MX Reds and Blacks. They're light enough not to be fatiguing, but have enough resistance that you can type without slamming them down. If you find yourself bottoming out anyway, I suggest it's just a matter of practice, allowing yourself to type with less effort, just skimming across the keys.

Yes, you'll miss some characters in the process of learning to do it. But resist the temptation to whine. Like many things in life that take some effort, the benefits are worth the trouble.

I play five musical instruments, BTW—and I can tell you that learning to type lightly, without wasted effort or strain, was a lot easier to learn than any of them.  :?)
We are not chasing wildly after beauty with fear at our backs. – Natalie Goldberg

Offline chuckdee

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1308
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 09:22:10 »
I love hanging out in the MK world. But let's face it, it's also full of eccentrically, sometimes epically, picky people.

I'm not saying you have to be on the autism scale to enjoy MKs. However, it's a well-known fact that people with obsessive personalities are often drawn to small, precise things—and what's an MK a collection of? Yep. The colors and textures of of key caps, the loudness and tone of clicks, the exact heights at which switches actuate... For sure, it's fun stuff—but for some people, it can involve pathological levels of preoccupation. That's just a fact.

Social media notwithstanding, typing is also an intrinsically solitary activity. So it's not unusual for people who arrange their lives around something like MKs to be essentially solitary, people who've arranged everything in their lives just so. If something upsets that balance—even if they just perceive it that way—they can lash out unpredictably and irrationally. If something they've hyper-focused on isn't how they expected it to be, they may feel like their world's careening out of control.

So you have to take this kind of thing with a grain of salt. When you get involved in a community like this, you'll almost certainly come in contact with people to whom MKs mean more than virtually anything else, including other people.

And if you take the extraordinary step of designing and producing your own MK-related products, and offering them to this community, you're opening yourself up to everyone's expectations, no matter how unrealistic or potentially volatile they may be.

You can just imagine the rants  customer service people at keyboard companies regularly receive. But those people aren't functioning as members of a KB community. They're hired to handle problems and complaints all day, every day. When a customer's irate, they can isolate themselves from the emotion, open the protocol policies their company has issued to them, follow the numbers, then forget about it and take the next call. XMIT doesn't have that luxury; he's one of us.

So I think it's important to keep in mind that nothing really unusual is going on here. It's just the context in which it's happening.

With any new product—not to mention, one that's this kind of new—there will always be people who like it and people who don't. The people who don't may have legitimate complaints (e.g. obvious defects, shipping damage), or they may have created an inaccurate or unrealistic image of the product in their minds. Or it may just work or look different from what they'd prefer. And as it's pointed out here every day: Typing feel and visual aesthetics are highly subjective.

XMIT's a very smart guy. I'm sure he realized what he might be wading into when he decided to take this project on. He did it anyway, and he's being as open and accommodating as he can.

Since I plugged in my XMIT board, I've gotten nothing but pleasure from it. (I'm typing on it now.) To me, it looks, feels, and operates just great, and knowing it has HE switches is a true geeky thrill. The facts that it's also my only RGB board, and my only board with a natural wood case, are just bonuses.

No, I didn't expect it to be perfect. The case is a bit rough here and there (it is, after all, natural wood), and the spacebar's noisier than I expected. But remember, these are virtual prototypes of a kind of board few of us have ever seen, much less gotten to use. Despite the quirks, IMHO we're lucky to get in on the first wave of them. And XMIT clearly values our feedback, as long as we're able to communicate it constructively. To me, that's a thrill too, to be involved such an interesting board's evolution.

So I'm willing to support XMIT however I can, so he can keep moving forward. I'm sorry not everyone feels that way—but unfortunately, some people will always be so wrapped up in their own precise little worlds, you can't make them step back and see a bigger picture. There isn't a single entrepreneur in the world who doesn't have to deal with that. It's the reason most of us spend our lives working for other people and letting them take up the slack.

Great post, and great sentiments!

Offline Data

  • Posts: 2608
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 10:00:59 »
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT

Yeah, it's time for this ******* to go.

I can't echo any of the ragetastic sentiments posted here.  My board, like many, has relative quality issues (mainly in the key caps and switch stem tolerance) but it's otherwise a great board with a few "wow" features and I've been enjoying it.  I happen to like the spring weights and switch feel a lot -- so smooth and very different from anything else I've used.  I already swapped out the key caps so that's 80% of my issue resolved.  There's no excuse for anyone to behave like this HighPlainsDrafter clown.


Offline digi

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 10:48:16 »
So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren.

LOLLL - "brethren".....too funny. This is starting to look more like a troll rather than a legit rage-fueled 13 year old mouth-breather on his mom's Amazon Fire Tablet.


Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 13:23:23 »
I hope this clarifies any remaining confusion on the spring weights.

Interesting. Those are distinctly low preloads.

I do have some ITW magnetic valve dummy switches (for 2u key stabilisation) that feel like they have low preload, and they're also very light and very smooth, possibly the smoothest "switch" I own (I assume the actual switches feel just as smooth, but not as light). I imagine that XMIT 50 g feels basically like an ITW dummy switch.

My only concern is that a low preload may make keys easy to press by mistake, as the key isn't doing as much as it could to resist being pressed.
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Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 14:15:58 »
If MassDrop takes the returns and refurbishes them to XMIT's intended specification, and tosses in a 6 month warranty I'd have to consider that...

Offline DuckNorris

  • Posts: 254
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:07:15 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.


Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:14:13 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.

I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310


Offline XMIT

  • formerly jsoltren
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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:27:56 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.

I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310

Let's be clear that Cherry MX style springs will NOT work on the Hall boards. These replacement springs need a length of 12.5 mm and an inner diameter of 5.0 mm.

Offline DuckNorris

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:28:50 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.

I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310
LMAOOO. This is awesome.

Offline DuckNorris

  • Posts: 254
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:30:14 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.

I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310

Let's be clear that Cherry MX style springs will NOT work on the Hall boards. These replacement springs need a length of 12.5 mm and an inner diameter of 5.0 mm.

Haha, you are very professional which is good.We are just having some fun with the thought of giving that rude customer the hardest springs that won't be too light for him.

Offline Data

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 12:32:50 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.

I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310



300g anybody?

Offline zlittell

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 13:38:19 »
I love hanging out in the MK world. But let's face it, it's also full of eccentrically, sometimes epically, picky people.

I'm not saying you have to be on the autism scale to enjoy MKs. However, it's a well-known fact that people with obsessive personalities are often drawn to small, precise things—and what's an MK a collection of? Yep. The colors and textures of of key caps, the loudness and tone of clicks, the exact heights at which switches actuate... For sure, it's fun stuff—but for some people, it can involve pathological levels of preoccupation. That's just a fact.

Social media notwithstanding, typing is also an intrinsically solitary activity. So it's not unusual for people who arrange their lives around something like MKs to be essentially solitary, people who've arranged everything in their lives just so. If something upsets that balance—even if they just perceive it that way—they can lash out unpredictably and irrationally. If something they've hyper-focused on isn't how they expected it to be, they may feel like their world's careening out of control.

So you have to take this kind of thing with a grain of salt. When you get involved in a community like this, you'll almost certainly come in contact with people to whom MKs mean more than virtually anything else, including other people.

And if you take the extraordinary step of designing and producing your own MK-related products, and offering them to this community, you're opening yourself up to everyone's expectations, no matter how unrealistic or potentially volatile they may be.

You can just imagine the rants  customer service people at keyboard companies regularly receive. But those people aren't functioning as members of a KB community. They're hired to handle problems and complaints all day, every day. When a customer's irate, they can isolate themselves from the emotion, open the protocol policies their company has issued to them, follow the numbers, then forget about it and take the next call. XMIT doesn't have that luxury; he's one of us.

So I think it's important to keep in mind that nothing really unusual is going on here. It's just the context in which it's happening.

With any new product—not to mention, one that's this kind of new—there will always be people who like it and people who don't. The people who don't may have legitimate complaints (e.g. obvious defects, shipping damage), or they may have created an inaccurate or unrealistic image of the product in their minds. Or it may just work or look different from what they'd prefer. And as it's pointed out here every day: Typing feel and visual aesthetics are highly subjective.

XMIT's a very smart guy. I'm sure he realized what he might be wading into when he decided to take this project on. He did it anyway, and he's being as open and accommodating as he can.

Since I plugged in my XMIT board, I've gotten nothing but pleasure from it. (I'm typing on it now.) To me, it looks, feels, and operates just great, and knowing it has HE switches is a true geeky thrill. The facts that it's also my only RGB board, and my only board with a natural wood case, are just bonuses.

No, I didn't expect it to be perfect. The case is a bit rough here and there (it is, after all, natural wood), and the spacebar's noisier than I expected. But remember, these are virtual prototypes of a kind of board few of us have ever seen, much less gotten to use. Despite the quirks, IMHO we're lucky to get in on the first wave of them. And XMIT clearly values our feedback, as long as we're able to communicate it constructively. To me, that's a thrill too, to be involved such an interesting board's evolution.

So I'm willing to support XMIT however I can, so he can keep moving forward. I'm sorry not everyone feels that way—but unfortunately, some people will always be so wrapped up in their own precise little worlds, you can't make them step back and see a bigger picture. There isn't a single entrepreneur in the world who doesn't have to deal with that. It's the reason most of us spend our lives working for other people and letting them take up the slack.


I echo the sentiment that the switches are light. I have the 70g, and it fells like a step lighter than any MX black I've ever typed on (aka distinctly NOT 70g). I assume this is because the nature of the switches are different. It would make logical sense that the weight of a spring would lead to a universal resistance across any medium, but this Hall Effect board is definitely proof that that is not true...

That's a great, objective viewpoint. As far as I know, after reliability, HE switches are all about smoothness. How much smoother can you get than simply having to move a magnet a few millimeters perpendicular to an electrical current?

To me, these switches's pressure falls between that of MX Reds and Blacks. They're light enough not to be fatiguing, but have enough resistance that you can type without slamming them down. If you find yourself bottoming out anyway, I suggest it's just a matter of practice, allowing yourself to type with less effort, just skimming across the keys.

Yes, you'll miss some characters in the process of learning to do it. But resist the temptation to whine. Like many things in life that take some effort, the benefits are worth the trouble.

I play five musical instruments, BTW—and I can tell you that learning to type lightly, without wasted effort or strain, was a lot easier to learn than any of them.  :?)

I am not sure I understand what you are talking about. *sips coffee after typing comment on fancy mechanical keyboard while surrounded by dolls with wigs made of human hair stolen from unknowing females and lipstick crudely applied to their cold plastic lips*

Offline happylacquer

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 13:42:40 »
Anyone who announces they won't be checking future private messages checks their PMs more than the average user.

Offline merlin64

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 13:48:28 »
Just got to put it out there. If anyone is unhappy with their board (to a reasonable extent), I'd be happy to purchase it off of you =).


Offline DuckNorris

  • Posts: 254
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 16:17:25 »
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).

Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.

I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310

Show Image


300g anybody?

We are gonna have to run a IC on behalf the passionate customer this post was made about. Then afterwards we can run Massdrop poll. I won't be joining though , 300g is too light for me...

Offline dante

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 24 March 2017, 10:10:40 »
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:

http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3

Offline DuckNorris

  • Posts: 254
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 24 March 2017, 12:20:21 »
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:

http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3

Thank you, I can finally build my endgame now. 

Edit: Btw this gave me a good laugh this looks like an awesome troll project lol
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 March 2017, 14:57:00 by DuckNorris »

Offline kaotikb

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 17:42:00 »
I ordered the 104 key with 50g spring and i also found them very light. So i switched all of the springs to the 70g and also find them too light for me. After assembling the board back together 4 screws would not tighten down at all.  The usb port seems a little loose. Sometimes the keyboard does not work when my computer boots up and i have to unplug it and plug it back in.



Ducky 1087 (Green ALPS) |  CM QFR Stealth (MX Brown) | Unicomp Ultra Classic |Poker II (MX Brown)  | IBM 1391401 1991 | IBM 1391401 1989 | Ducky Shine 3 White Edition (MX Brown) | G80-3700(MX Black) | Corsair K70 (MX Brown) | Varmillo VA87MR (Gateron Red)

Pointing Devices:  Microsoft Trackball Optical (Ceramic bearings Installed)  | Sanwa MA-TB39BK (Larger Ceramic Bearings Installed) | Elecom M-XT2URBK | Kensington Slimblade | Logitech Trackman Wheel | Logitech Trackman Marble Plus

Offline dantan

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #78 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 01:18:51 »
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:

http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3

Thank you, I can finally build my endgame now. 

Edit: Btw this gave me a good laugh this looks like an awesome troll project lol

Are you serious?

How did such a small and ordinary looking spring turn out to be a 700g spring?

Also how can you expect such a spring to be realistically usable in most situations? Even if it controls the power button, it will be very hard to press.

I know the reason for ducknorris posting this spring is to troll the fussy buyer, but I can't see any reason for a parts manufacturer to make such a spring. Not many keyboard manufacturers will pay for 700g spring I'd wager.

Offline schoolbus

  • Posts: 288
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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 05:52:05 »
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:

http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3

Thank you, I can finally build my endgame now. 

Edit: Btw this gave me a good laugh this looks like an awesome troll project lol

Are you serious?

How did such a small and ordinary looking spring turn out to be a 700g spring?

Also how can you expect such a spring to be realistically usable in most situations? Even if it controls the power button, it will be very hard to press.

I know the reason for ducknorris posting this spring is to troll the fussy buyer, but I can't see any reason for a parts manufacturer to make such a spring. Not many keyboard manufacturers will pay for 700g spring I'd wager.

I believe the spring is out of a pencil or a pen or something.
Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline dantan

  • Posts: 288
Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 07:23:57 »
That's one strong spring. I had no idea we were pushing on such a weight when we clicked our pens.

Offline klennkellon

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 16:25:47 »
So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren.

LOLLL - "brethren".....too funny. This is starting to look more like a troll rather than a legit rage-fueled 13 year old mouth-breather on his mom's Amazon Fire Tablet.
lol right on, but why an Amazon Fire tablet specifically?  :D

Offline opensecret

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Re: XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 18:56:08 »
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

The keys actuate at 35g -- which works fine for me, but not for everyone.
IBM Model M |Matias Mini Quiet Pro|Plum 84EC-S|RealForce 103U-UW & 87U-UW|Omnikey Ultra T| 2 Omnikey Ultras| WASD V2| Xmit Hall Effect|