Author Topic: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim  (Read 4868 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 09:33:56 »
What are Gekhak's thoughts ??

Still much xcite for Self-Driving cars ??

Offline clasicks

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 09:37:27 »
what about the bike, machine vs machines already.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 19:43:30 »
Traffic is social interaction. Pedestrians, cyclists and drivers communicate through eye contact, showing intent and hand signals. There is politeness. "I would like to cross". "Go ahead!". "Thanks!"

Self-driving cars are autistic self-absorbed douchebags on their phone while driving.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 20:22:13 »
Traffic is social interaction. Pedestrians, cyclists and drivers communicate through eye contact, showing intent and hand signals. There is politeness. "I would like to cross". "Go ahead!". "Thanks!"

Self-driving cars are autistic self-absorbed douchebags on their phone while driving.

Everyone is surprised the pedestrian was not picked up. Because there were no obstructions.. and that uber systems sees in the dark.

The current conspiracy theory is that the woman was hosed down with some sort of deflecting solution at some point during the day .

It is also possible that the vehicle system was tampered with.

The solution was deflecting/ dampening the sensor systems on the uber vehicle..


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Offline JP

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 20:38:21 »
There is too much at stake to lay this technology to rest. The sensors we have today see more things faster, especially in adverse conditions. Uber skimped on the number of sensors. Cheap bastards. Engineers be like we have the technology but the corporate suits say lets cut costs. Once the tech is fully baked, adoption will become widespread. I can imagine a future where states and insurance companies will essentially mandate the technology. Imagine swarms of vehicles which can communicate to each other. This would prevent accidents and and alleviate congestion. Imagine your morning commute where you can take a nap while your vehicle automatically swings by the nearest Starbucks without you asking it to. Maybe even one day there will be a way to link our minds with the cars system and we can have a driving experience for those who want to drive, but augmented and supervised by the computer.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 20:41:35 »
There is too much at stake to lay this technology to rest. The sensors we have today see more things faster, especially in adverse conditions. Uber skimped on the number of sensors. Cheap bastards. Engineers be like we have the technology but the corporate suits say lets cut costs. Once the tech is fully baked, adoption will become widespread. I can imagine a future where states and insurance companies will essentially mandate the technology. Imagine swarms of vehicles which can communicate to each other. This would prevent accidents and and alleviate congestion. Imagine your morning commute where you can take a nap while your vehicle automatically swings by the nearest Starbucks without you asking it to. Maybe even one day there will be a way to link our minds with the cars system and we can have a driving experience for those who want to drive, but augmented and supervised by the computer.



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Offline rowdy

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 20:50:23 »
Apparently the human driver did not seize control to avoid the collision.

Therefore human driver was responsible for collusion with Skynet AI.

The system will be brought down from within.
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Offline JP

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 21:12:13 »
Apparently the human driver did not seize control to avoid the collision.

Therefore human driver was responsible for collusion with Skynet AI.

The system will be brought down from within.

Watching that video though, damn it would have been hard to avoid that pedestrian at 40 mph in the dark. I suppose the bike had small reflectors but still you would not expect someone to walk right into the road like that. No way a larger vehicle would stop in time but at the very least a collision could have been minimized or a driver could have swerved, which in itself could possibly cause a separate accident.
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Offline JP

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 21:21:22 »
Oh, I almost seen no less than 3 highly probable near accidents on my way back home. It is about time for a dashcam. A cop with sirens on almost hit another driver. Four cops drove by me at about 100 mph in a 45 mph zone around the same time. Another driver on his cellphone almost wrecked himself twice while swerving off the road to make an exit and then swerving back to the initial road at the last moment, almost hitting another car in the process. That driver did this twice like they didn't know where they were going. As I cautiously passed I seen that prick was absorbed on his cell phone. No wonder I have road rage.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 21:53:49 »
Oh, I almost seen no less than 3 highly probable near accidents on my way back home. It is about time for a dashcam. A cop with sirens on almost hit another driver. Four cops drove by me at about 100 mph in a 45 mph zone around the same time. Another driver on his cellphone almost wrecked himself twice while swerving off the road to make an exit and then swerving back to the initial road at the last moment, almost hitting another car in the process. That driver did this twice like they didn't know where they were going. As I cautiously passed I seen that prick was absorbed on his cell phone. No wonder I have road rage.

Got 2 dash cams myself.. one front , one back.

Don't get the dual cams.. they're bad quality

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 22:01:22 »
Until they release the radar/Lidar data the video is meaningless. It's a question if the vehicles sensors detected and identified the ped on approach, because if it were operating normally it would have been able to asses the potential danger a mile out.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 22:27:00 »
90% of drivers on the road would have hit her as well.

Something to keep in mind, and if you watch you will see it too... They are holding self driving cars to an unrealistic standard of being better than a skilled, attentive human driver right away. How many people do you encounter on your daily commute does that accurately describes. Think about how many times people plow through crowds or a storefront because they mixed up the pedals. Humans screw up driving ALL THE TIME. A mediocre computer is probably as good as half the drivers on the road, especially when you consider the ones texting or have been drinking.


Remember the question posed early on... "If the car had to chose between occupants and someone on the road which would it choose?" Which did you pick? I don't remember that question on my driving tests. There is a large group of people dead set on this not going anywhere and will do anything, say anything to make sure it never happens, they put this out knowing it had no right answer. As for the question, think about this, give a simulation like that to enough people or a computer and they might just figure out there is a third alternative, but it doesn't even leave that as an option. There is no gray area, no right or wrong, just two bad choices for you to criticize no matter which one you pick.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2018, 22:28:33 by Leslieann »
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 22:49:42 »
OK let's get something completely clear here, as this is a misconception a lot of people seem to have.
At night time cameras are useless. That's it. Talking about the camera footage as the extent of what the SDC is able to survey is pointless and ignoring the vast majority of it's visual data, which is through it's sensors.

This point of view is a potentially dangerous misconception a lot of people have with automated vehicles because it shows how little is understood about this technology by the general public and also potentially can affect infrastructure planning as well. The thing about SDC's is they ARE much safer than any human driver because they are able to see much more that the human eye ever could.

What the video does point out though is one of the biggest flaws of self-driving technology, the lack of an instinctual reaction. Under the shown conditions of camera-only usage (pretending as if no radar data exists) an SDC would fail that same scenario much more than experienced human drivers I reckon, and that is due to human's being able to gut-react without thinking.

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 23:00:36 »
Traffic is social interaction. Pedestrians, cyclists and drivers communicate through eye contact, showing intent and hand signals. There is politeness. "I would like to cross". "Go ahead!". "Thanks!"

Self-driving cars are autistic self-absorbed douchebags on their phone while driving.

So you're saying at their worst auto-automobiles are as bad as your average driver? Still a net gain...

Most drivers that I see (especially in the US) signal very little and show almost no intent of action prior to doing. I'd take a robot driving any day of the week.

Offline Coreda

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 23:50:34 »
It's amusing how different the expectations have become for autonomous tech. I remember when Google was introducing self-driving cars that would be 'accident-free' due to their multi-radar system that could see a radius beyond what humans can perceive, leading to decision-making intelligence that could surpasses a human driver. In news discussions of various human-driven accidents for quite a few years I'd read comments like 'bring on self-driving cars'.

And now it's 'well, when the weather's clear and the on-board system can pick up line-of-sight movement and identify the object in time it should be okay, otherwise good luck.'

Though tbf it's probably because Uber's tech is sub-par. Read some Hacker News comments that mentioned Uber autonomous cars had ran red lights, among other violations that didn't cause as much buzz.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 01:47:13 »
Though tbf it's probably because Uber's tech is sub-par. Read some Hacker News comments that mentioned Uber autonomous cars had ran red lights, among other violations that didn't cause as much buzz.
But is it?

How many miles do they have on their system? My bet is that it's more than most people do, I know Google's has. And yes one did run a red light, but last I saw they were not sure if it was the human or the autonomous system that did it. Even then, so do people.

Personally, if they can already match a bad driver, it won't be long before they can match the average driver. Once they do that, I want to say the tech will take off, but I suspect it won't, not in the way people think anyhow. While this could help mass transit, I can see it utterly destroying it. I can also see it destroying the car industry, hence the bigger manufacturers pulling back from it. They can run, but they can't hide from it, it's going to happen and it's going to really shake up the industry.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 05:14:16 »
I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.

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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 06:58:01 »
I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 07:02:46 »
I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.

Seems like a pretty straightforward problem to solve.

Every person crossing the road will have a small Transmitter Device, it could be your phone, or a completely separate device.

You press it whenever you want to cross a highway or a busy road..  All the surrounding car gets a ping, slows down/stops, and lets you cross.


If you abuse the button, or the cars are waiting too long, the system will honk at you automatically.. and everyone will glare at you.

So, social accord is preserved,  AND it's certainly safe because multiple detectors will triangulate your position, so even if 1 car doesn't pick up the transmitter, another car would, and thus feeding that data to the other cars in the vicinity.


Privacy is also preserved because this exclusive transmitter only broadcasts when you press a button. and it has no net capability.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 07:10:17 »
I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.
So then what's the point of having self driving cars if I still have to drive?

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 07:13:59 »
I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.
So then what's the point of having self driving cars if I still have to drive?


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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 07:22:17 »


I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.
So then what's the point of having self driving cars if I still have to drive?


m0ar Home-sourcing and m0ar electric Costco bus..

It's just like a BUS that takes you to Costco.. !!


 Seriously though, we typically take a 1500+ mile round trip road trip three times a year to visit some family members.

I hate driving it but flying isn't practical when costs is combined with the schedule we have to keep. Trains don't have a route from here to there and don't even get me started on cross country buses.

It would be awesome to get in a vehicle and nap the entire way because the vehicle was smart enough to drive.

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 29 March 2018, 07:40:49 »


I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.
So then what's the point of having self driving cars if I still have to drive?


m0ar Home-sourcing and m0ar electric Costco bus..

It's just like a BUS that takes you to Costco.. !!


 Seriously though, we typically take a 1500+ mile round trip road trip three times a year to visit some family members.

I hate driving it but flying isn't practical when costs is combined with the schedule we have to keep. Trains don't have a route from here to there and don't even get me started on cross country buses.

It would be awesome to get in a vehicle and nap the entire way because the vehicle was smart enough to drive.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



What would be interesting is people will start migrating at night..

For example,  if you want to get to ur mothers 750 miles away,  You'd start when you get home from work,

Load up the car with ramen and hot water..

Then sleep through the night in the car..  And by the time you wake up,  Your mother walks out her house with pancakes ready for you, and then your wife gives you that glare..

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 03:24:39 »
I just want to get in my 'future' car, tell it where to go and play on my phone until I get there.
Then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A pedestrian wanting to cross the road will seek eye contact with you, and you just look away ... or worse: your eyes are in the direction of the pedestrian but your mind is somewhere else, thus fooling the pedestrian that you are about to cross.
That latter thing has happened to me. I was almost run over.
I fail to see how that makes him part of the problem.

If his mind is somewhere else, a self driving car would be a better solution since it would at least try to avoid you. It's mind doesn't wander.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 04:31:42 »
Every person crossing the road will have a small Transmitter Device, it could be your phone, or a completely separate device.

You press it whenever you want to cross a highway or a busy road..  All the surrounding car gets a ping, slows down/stops, and lets you cross.
So, everyone else should adapt to self-driving cars then? ...

I have also heard the idea that cities that have stood for several thousand years and will stand for thousands more should tear down houses and reorganise their streets into grids with separate lanes for pedestrians and carts for that small fraction of time in that city's life just after carts are no longer driven by horses or oxen but are not yet flying.

BTW, the place where I was almost run over by a taxi-driver on the phone was at a zebra crossing. Signs. Marks on the road surface. Other people crossing right in front of me. More than enough light to see. No red lights but the other signals should be more than enough.

If his mind is somewhere else, a self driving car would be a better solution since it would at least try to avoid you. It's mind doesn't wander.
The point was not about driver fatigue but about communication between actors on the road. About social interaction and not acting like a zombie or a self-absorbed douchebag.
Robot drivers don't communicate like human drivers do. When there is a "driver" in the car, it is important that the "driver" does not send mixed signals!

There have been research projects about cars with a face, that could communicate.
In Total Recall, the self-driving taxi "JohnnyCab" does have a robot face which is somewhat expressive.
But none of the automatic cars that are out on roads today do this yet. They have a passenger in the "driver's seat".

Another thing: Every car is required to have a horn. But would a self-driving car ever use a horn? Would it be programmed to be able to detect which situations in which the use of a horn is warranted?
Also, would a self-driving car be able to understand why another driver uses a horn, for good reason or the wrong reasons?

It seems to me more and more as if the idea of self-driving cars is not really about cars, but a conspiracy to change the world for people on cell phones. A way to prevent cell-phone zombies walking into the street to be run over, and a way for people in cars to spend more time on their cell phones.
Cell-phone zombies will still walk off quays, off bridges, into fountains and onto railroad tracks though ... but you can't blame that on the cars.
🍉

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 17:01:13 »
Another thing: Every car is required to have a horn. But would a self-driving car ever use a horn? Would it be programmed to be able to detect which situations in which the use of a horn is warranted?
Also, would a self-driving car be able to understand why another driver uses a horn, for good reason or the wrong reasons?

It seems to me more and more as if the idea of self-driving cars is not really about cars, but a conspiracy to change the world for people on cell phones.

While visual cues can help, better drivers would be better. No one here can manage a 4 way stop.
The cars will/are able to use a horn I suspect, but reacting to them... I doubt it, the car is aware of everything is already monitors, a horn isn't going to tell it there is something in a blind spot it can't see. That said, people tend to react the same way. While sitting in a drive through the person in front of me decided to back out and leave, they backed right into me despite the horn (I had bought the car 20 hours earlier).

There is also talk of a communication system between the self driving cars, so there would be less need for a horn.

As for people being on the phone in the car... Yes, many will be on phones, but you can also read, sleep, work, watch a movie... If your commute is an hour and a half each way, and mine used to be (on a good day!), a self driving car lets me regain those lost hours.



By the way
Johnny Cab was intended to be a companion while driving, replacing the cab driver and giving you someone to talk to during a boring ride, however when it was created, no one had smart phones to keep them busy. He's a relic of a time when people actually talked to the cab driver.
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Offline ThoughtArtist

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 19:56:26 »
Yep. Can't wait for these systems to wear out and see what the maintenance nightmare is like.

You thought used Hondas were a money-pit with their numerous failing o2 sensors...
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 March 2018, 19:59:15 by ThoughtArtist »

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 19:59:15 »
Ohh boy this thread is straight retarded. It's no wonder infrastructure has been so difficult to implement and foot dragging on law making has been so heavy, no one really understands how the technology works outside of the industry.

Offline ThoughtArtist

  • Posts: 310
  • Location: A climate-controlled testing facility
Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 20:00:04 »
Ohh boy this thread is straight retarded. It's no wonder infrastructure has been so difficult to implement and foot dragging on law making has been so heavy, no one really understands how the technology works outside of the industry.

Considering 99.999% of people have never actually used the tech...

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 30 March 2018, 21:03:14 »
Ohh boy this thread is straight retarded. It's no wonder infrastructure has been so difficult to implement and foot dragging on law making has been so heavy, no one really understands how the technology works outside of the industry.

Considering 99.999% of people have never actually used the tech...

no, that's fair. I'm being biased.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 31 March 2018, 18:04:06 »
Another death today, but this was from a Tesla auto-pilot which no one really trusts anyway. Elon seems to think they can operate using camera data only, which also probably has some correlation as to why Tesla and Apple SDC's are the least trusted in the market right now. 
https://slate.com/technology/2018/03/another-driver-died-in-a-tesla-that-was-on-autopilot.html

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 31 March 2018, 18:07:59 »
Another death today, but this was from a Tesla auto-pilot which no one really trusts anyway. Elon seems to think they can operate using camera data only, which also probably has some correlation as to why Tesla and Apple SDC's are the least trusted in the market right now. 
https://slate.com/technology/2018/03/another-driver-died-in-a-tesla-that-was-on-autopilot.html

Now, If someone was a psychopath stock brokerage/ trading house

And raking in the billions shorting auto stocks,   would they commit a murder or 2 to keep riding the whale. ?

The fact that it all seems to happen at the same time is -- suspicious --

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 31 March 2018, 19:11:18 »
Another death today, but this was from a Tesla auto-pilot which no one really trusts anyway. Elon seems to think they can operate using camera data only, which also probably has some correlation as to why Tesla and Apple SDC's are the least trusted in the market right now. 
https://slate.com/technology/2018/03/another-driver-died-in-a-tesla-that-was-on-autopilot.html
The latest on that is that the driver ignored warnings to take over control.
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Offline buckyballs

  • Posts: 62
Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 04 April 2018, 17:28:08 »
It isn't fair to expect the car to drive so unreasonably well. Nearly all human drivers would have hit the pedestrian in such circumstances anyway. Cameras at night aren't much better than human eyes precisely because of the lack of light. Unless we want cars to be able to use radar, which also creates a new can of worms because it'll be a mess when you have a million cars in a city sending out their radar signals.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Now that Skynet has taken its first Pedestrian Victim
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 05 April 2018, 08:19:18 »
Unless we want cars to be able to use radar, which also creates a new can of worms because it'll be a mess when you have a million cars in a city sending out their radar signals.
AFAIK, all self-driving cars use Lidar in one form or another to detect obstacles.
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