Author Topic: What makes Topre so great for typing?  (Read 21210 times)

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Offline Emospence

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What makes Topre so great for typing?
« on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:13:28 »
Generally, people seem to agree the Cherry Blues and buckling springs are great for typing since they're tactile and clicky..

What makes Topre so great for typing since they are neither?
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Offline keymaster

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:16:32 »
Feels good, man.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:28:13 »
they're aight... nothing to really write home about.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:30:36 »
What makes them great for typing?  Nothing more than any other switch.  Some people prefer them, some don't care for them, some don't care either way.

Offline badcop

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:44:37 »
its feeling the of oneness with cup rubber
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Offline rowdy

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:49:21 »
That thock sound!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline esoomenona

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:54:32 »
The price. The more you spend, the better the typing.

Offline jabar

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:55:30 »
the rubber cup makes smooths out the spring action. bottoming out is also muted compared to any Cherry MX.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 21:56:29 »
the rubber cup makes smooths out the spring action. bottoming out is also muted compared to any Cherry MX.



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Offline jameslr

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 22:17:32 »
In my opinion you need to re-learn how to type with a Topre. Especially if you come from membrane keyboards and you're new to mechanical. With membrane keyboards you're used to depressing them all the way and hard. You don't have to do this with Topre. The switch takes hardly any pressure to activate, and it takes some practice to keep from bottoming out the caps. This is based on my experiences with the topre RF 87U 55g. It's quickly becoming my favorite keyboard. I'm forcing myself to use lighter touch to activate the switches. I'm used to hammering the keyboards with so much force. Even with the brown MX I bottom out the keys. That is the only way I can really type fast it seems.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 22:20:21 »
In my opinion you need to re-learn how to type with a Topre. Especially if you come from membrane keyboards and you're new to mechanical. With membrane keyboards you're used to depressing them all the way and hard. You don't have to do this with Topre. The switch takes hardly any pressure to activate, and it takes some practice to keep from bottoming out the caps. This is based on my experiences with the topre RF 87U 55g. It's quickly becoming my favorite keyboard. I'm forcing myself to use lighter touch to activate the switches. I'm used to hammering the keyboards with so much force. Even with the brown MX I bottom out the keys. That is the only way I can really type fast it seems.


At speed- you always bottom out.  If you at all care about speed you bottom out.

That isn't to say you have to press very hard

Offline rowdy

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 22:24:41 »
The price. The more you spend, the better the typing.

Populate a keyboard with all clarks for the ultimate typing experience!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Polymer

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 22:25:24 »
In my opinion you need to re-learn how to type with a Topre. Especially if you come from membrane keyboards and you're new to mechanical. With membrane keyboards you're used to depressing them all the way and hard. You don't have to do this with Topre. The switch takes hardly any pressure to activate, and it takes some practice to keep from bottoming out the caps. This is based on my experiences with the topre RF 87U 55g. It's quickly becoming my favorite keyboard. I'm forcing myself to use lighter touch to activate the switches. I'm used to hammering the keyboards with so much force. Even with the brown MX I bottom out the keys. That is the only way I can really type fast it seems.

You bottom out with Topre....especially 55g....I'd really like to see someone type without bottoming out with Topre...I think it would be funny to watch..as funny as some of these other videos I've seen (one guy types like he has women like long fingernails). 

Topre doesn't require that you bottom out..but the way they collapse, it is pretty much useless trying to keep from bottoming out....

This is NOT the same as getting used to slamming into the bottom of the keyboard like a normal membrane keyboard...but as far as generally bottoming out..you do..might be light..but you do...and it doesn't matter if you do...it sounds good..it feels good...The "thocK" is half the enjoyment...

Offline morpheus

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 22:32:02 »
It's all about the feeling.

Offline daerid

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 23:40:22 »
The oneness with cup rubber

durh

Offline KangarooZombies

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 23:51:56 »
It just IS great.

Dont question it.

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Offline Niomosy

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 23:55:12 »
Generally, people seem to agree the Cherry Blues and buckling springs are great for typing since they're tactile and clicky..

What makes Topre so great for typing since they are neither?

I've yet to try a Topre but I'd gladly take Reds or Blacks over Blues or Buckling Springs for typing.

Offline hashbaz

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 23:56:51 »
For me it's the buttery smooth yet tactile action, solid feeling, and the glorious thock.  In short, oneness with cup rubber.

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:11:46 »
Topre switches are noticeably, and significantly more smooth, and solid feeling than MX switches. They also wobble a whole lot less. For me, that has helped with my accuracy in typing.

Not necessarily speed (I have to admit MX Browns got me the fastest peak times), but accuracy. I average around 105-110 WPM on typeracer.

Offline Tony

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:34:31 »
You feel the velvet smoothness that only 300USD can provide.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:36:14 by Tony »
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Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:47:35 »

Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid. Here is why:


You're going to spend roughly 80-100 (maybe more) for a decent MX board. Typically, that board is not going to have PBT caps.
You will spend another maybe 80 or so on some PBT caps, depending on what type and what vendor, etc. Maybe you want
to add some springs, stickers, lube, etc. You're probably going to need someone to do that for you. So you pay to ship your stuff
to someone, do the work, ship back to you, etc.. etc... (maybe you get the point by now....)

That's going to start getting you into the range of your 45g EK RealForce, which already
comes stock with high quality PBT caps, doesn't make half the noise and is much smoother than your stock MX board. (Right now, it's about $240). A topre is just a smoother experience out
of the box. That's not personal preference, etc. They just are.

So please, stop using the price of a topre board as your argument against Topre, because it's pretty silly. If you want to use the HHKB as the point of your argument, that's understandable as
it's a niche product, with specific target audiences in mind (programmers). So your argument is still invalid on that point, as well.




EDIT: And I almost forgot about the newer Leopold Topre boards, which have PBT, plate and 45g weighted switches for $189, which makes it an even more invalid argument.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:52:16 by Bro Caps »

Offline rowdy

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:56:59 »
My KeyCool came with PBT caps shipped to Australia for around $100.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 00:58:19 »

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 01:02:33 »
It's hard to describe other than going from a similarly priced custom MX board to a stock topre board, I was happier overall with the topre.  So if I'm spending the same dollar amount, why don't I just save myself the labor time and just get the one that feels better anyways?

Also, with the yen's plummet in value, Realforce and HHKBs have been getting more and more affordable. 

Offline rowdy

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 01:08:34 »
I went from HHKB to Model M.  I am missing the Topre.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 01:12:46 »
Regardless of the kind of keyboard you are using, this is really hard to put into words. I recently tried Topre for the first time, and despite reading about them for a long time now, and even knowing the "mechanism" it felt completely different from what I expected.
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 05:29:33 »
Maybe I can put words on the "Topre feel":

For those of you who have once used a real piano (one made of wood) or a high quality electronic musical keyboard, there is a similarity in my opinion with the Topre switches.

In a real piano, the key is at the end of a lever, and the lever pushes a hammer, which strikes a string or group of strings.

The device has some inertia. When you start pushing the key, you push the key+lever+hammer group. You feel the weight of all these parts. Once the group is set in motion, the pressure on your finger is much lower as the parts continue on their way until they strike the string(s), at which point the hammer bounces back and sends the pressure back on the key. This helps quickly reset the mechanism in its initial position, ready to play another note.

The pressure curve on a piano key is in my opinion somehow similar to the one of a Topre switch.

When you start pressing the switch, the dome still has its semi-spherical shape and resists to the pressure. Then it collapses, and now does not resist anymore. What's left is mainly the force of the conical spring, which is much lower than the force that was needed to collapse the dome in the first place.

The effect is that the key seems to continue on its way to the point where, in a piano, the hammer strikes the string(s).

Now the key bottoms out. The plunger compresses the thickness of the upper part of the dome against the PCB and the completely collapsed conical spring, emitting the "thock" sound. On other mechanical switches, bottoming out is plastic against plastic or against steel, unless they are equipped with O-rings or landing pads. So the pitch of the sound is higher on these, and the feeling is harsher.

Now you can feel a kind of rebound, helped by the elasticity of the upper part of the dome and the conical spring release.

The dynamic of the key press explains why the board has more character than other mechanical switches and feels "alive". It is also the reason why it's good to bottom out (and can't really be prevented) on Topre and why the switch feels more reactive.

When I type on Topre, I notice that I type a little bit harder and that my fingers fly a little bit higher than on a Cherry MX board. Typing harder is not caused by the keys being harder to press, it's just that the reaction is better when your fingers hits the keys with some velocity. This velocity allows the fingers to have just enough inertia to collapse the keys, which react back. And it does not feel hard anyway, it feels like your fingers are bouncing on the board. On Cherry switches, the spring also makes your finger bounce back, but you don't feel the collapse of the key, even on browns. So it's not as easy to know that the key has registered.

A Topre makes you type with some energy in your hands, because the secret is the velocity of the fingers. It's not harder, it's just more playful.

Cherry Browns are better for a "calm" experience, because you need to type differently to feel the small resistance of the brown switch. Type on Browns like you type on Topres and the browns just feel like scratchy reds. Many people say that they do not notice the difference between reds and browns, and I believe their typing style may by much more adapted to Topre than to Cherry MX.

Interestingly, when I type on Cherry MX blue, I naturally adopt the same typing style than on Topres. So while browns are supposed to mimic the slight resistance of domes, they just fail at this. Blue ones, paradoxically, are closer to the dome effect.

Buckling springs have both the "collapse" and "bounce" of Topre, but harsher. And they add the loud click sound. Topres are so much smoother.

One may say that cheap rubber domes can be described in the same way I described Topres. However there are a few notable differences:
- The most important one in my opinion is the travel length. Cheap rubber domes fail to achieve the "piano feel" because you bottom out way too early.
- Cheap rubber domes miss the conical spring. It explains why they have less travel: a higher rubber dome would much more easily "jam" (stay in the collapsed position). Also, the spring helps a lot for the "rebound" feel. But you can put a spring under a rubber dome only if it is a capacitive switch, otherwise you run into too many problems with contacts! Hence the Topre capacitive design...
- The quality of the plunger is probably an important part of the experience. I suspect two different kinds of plastics are used, one for the housing and another one for the plunger. One is harder than the other, which is similar in principle to what is done with metallic moving parts that rub against each other. In cheap rubber domes keyboards, the same plastic is used for both the keycaps and the housings, generally, because it's less expensive to make both the housing and the keycaps from a single mold. It results in more friction between the plunger and the housing. You can feel it on large keys that do not have a stabilizer: they key is hard to press if you do not press exactly in the middle. It may even jam. Doesn't happen on Topre switches.

I hope all of this makes sense. And if I'm wrong on anything I'm saying, I'll be very glad to stand corrected.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 05:44:28 »
Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid.


Offline BunnyLake

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 05:51:55 »
its simply a oneness with cup rubber

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Offline davkol

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 06:09:19 »
Topre boards are high quality. That's it. Every quality board will feel good unless ****ed up or you have completely different tastes—just like in case of every high-end product.

I mean, give me PBT keycaps for my typematrix or some old rubber domes (I sort of like keytronics and btcs in particular), and I'll be happy. Also, it should be noted that people around here are enthusiasts—the real-life difference between e.g. ErgoClears and Topre is negligible.

Offline vatin

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:02:21 »
If only they come out in ergonomic design.... split, columnar...
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:04:54 »
Do you enjoy your feeling on Topre? Type on that then. If you don't enjoy your feeling on Topre, type on something else. Just enjoy your feeling you know?

Offline davkol

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:12:40 »
If only they come out in ergonomic design.... split, columnar...

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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:19:17 »
The price, obviously.

Offline Danule

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:28:48 »
smoothest switch i have ever typed on.  They are tactile but in a different way as the bump is at the beginning of the keypress.
45g Brown Brown Blue

Offline MJ45

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:29:23 »
It's the "Topre Voodoo"

Offline czarek

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:09:34 »
For long time Topre was one of my favourite switches but now I don't really like it. For couple of reasons. First of all inconsistency in key weight, even in uniform 45G, some keys feel more linear and lighter than the others. I don't like the way it ages quickly, on my HHKB some keys are almost linear and very light now. I also think keys don't rebound quick enough. They're like normal rubber domes in this regard. All real mechanical keyboards that use springs rebound pretty much instantly, where with rubber it feels kind of sluggish. Oh and the space bar. FFS why is it ABS? It feels cheap, looks different colour than the other keys and gets shiny so quick…
I do like the other keycaps though. I think they're the highest quality available (especially white/grey ones) on market today, I like how light and smooth the key action is and I absolutely love the thock sound they make, especially on Realforce.
I still use HHKB as my go around keyboard, while Filco with MX Blue (and blank PBT caps) became my daily driver for home office use (i sometimes swap it with MX Red QFR but not often). I no longer use BS keyboards due to fatigue.
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:16:25 »
No, to be honest, it's not the PRICE that makes any difference. As CDT mentioned, type of what you enjoy typing on. Different switches feel different (duh), but no switch is going to be perfect for everyone or everything.

That being said, I will tell you why this question comes up so much, and the answer isn't price: it's point of entry.

As Bro Caps said, you can spend just as much bringing your MX board up to par of a Topre board. BUT, the point of entry isn't so high. You can get a QFR for $60 or so. And what if you don't like it? That's all you're out. At this point, you're in. You can wait weeks or months, recover from your spending, THEN get the PBT caps.

You don't get that opportunity with Topre. You're all in in one shot, and it's not a cheap entry. Now, I'm not saying it's outrageous to me on a personal level, but to very many people, it is. That's just the matter of the fact.

But, to the people who CONSTANTLY ask this question, consider this: IF you don't want to spend money, don't. Obviously some people like Topre, and some people don't. Some people like MX, and some people don't. Take a risk if you really want to try them. If not, then why do you need everyone else to convince you? Their answer won't be yours. What if everyone here said Topre was the best, and you convince yourself to spend the money only to find out you hate it?

Offline morpheus

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:46:09 »
I guess I've been fortunate enough to try a lot of switches, and I must say I love Topre the most. But one reason I didn't get Topre until late in the game was because of its high price. At first, I didn't realize how a keyboard could cost that much (HHKB Pro 2, Realforce are $250+). But then the FC660C came out and it was about $180 and I thought this was a good chance for me to test it out. Of course, in retrospect I sort of wish I had spent the extra and bought the HHKB Pro 2 because of the layout and Dye Sub keycaps. The keycaps alone are worth $100 and being PBT/DyeSub, they would last almost forever, or however long I used that board. I realize there are cheaper boards out there come standard with PBT but aren't dyesubbed. So, from this whole experience I figured out that Topre will be my go to board for as long as they make this product.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:13:15 by morpheus »

Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:11:58 »
Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid.

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Offline The_Beast

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:20:34 »

Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid. Here is why:


You're going to spend roughly 80-100 (maybe more) for a decent MX board. Typically, that board is not going to have PBT caps.
You will spend another maybe 80 or so on some PBT caps, depending on what type and what vendor, etc. Maybe you want
to add some springs, stickers, lube, etc. You're probably going to need someone to do that for you. So you pay to ship your stuff
to someone, do the work, ship back to you, etc.. etc... (maybe you get the point by now....)

That's going to start getting you into the range of your 45g EK RealForce, which already
comes stock with high quality PBT caps, doesn't make half the noise and is much smoother than your stock MX board. (Right now, it's about $240). A topre is just a smoother experience out
of the box. That's not personal preference, etc. They just are.

So please, stop using the price of a topre board as your argument against Topre, because it's pretty silly. If you want to use the HHKB as the point of your argument, that's understandable as
it's a niche product, with specific target audiences in mind (programmers). So your argument is still invalid on that point, as well.




EDIT: And I almost forgot about the newer Leopold Topre boards, which have PBT, plate and 45g weighted switches for $189, which makes it an even more invalid argument.

This is a valid point.... somewhat


Some people are happy with there stock $60 QFR and never upgrade past that. So to them, it's very expensive. To the average GH user with a +$300 custom poker, your point is very valid
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Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:24:00 »


This is a valid point.... somewhat


Some people are happy with there stock $60 QFR and never upgrade past that. So to them, it's very expensive. To the average GH user with a +$300 custom poker, your point is very valid


Exactly. This was aimed at those who want a similar typing experience from a Cherry board, and plan on customizing in some way.

Offline Thimplum

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:35:59 »

Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid. Here is why:


You're going to spend roughly 80-100 (maybe more) for a decent MX board. Typically, that board is not going to have PBT caps.
You will spend another maybe 80 or so on some PBT caps, depending on what type and what vendor, etc. Maybe you want
to add some springs, stickers, lube, etc. You're probably going to need someone to do that for you. So you pay to ship your stuff
to someone, do the work, ship back to you, etc.. etc... (maybe you get the point by now....)

That's going to start getting you into the range of your 45g EK RealForce, which already
comes stock with high quality PBT caps, doesn't make half the noise and is much smoother than your stock MX board. (Right now, it's about $240). A topre is just a smoother experience out
of the box. That's not personal preference, etc. They just are.

So please, stop using the price of a topre board as your argument against Topre, because it's pretty silly. If you want to use the HHKB as the point of your argument, that's understandable as
it's a niche product, with specific target audiences in mind (programmers). So your argument is still invalid on that point, as well.

Since when did PBT sets cost $80?

And what if you don't want new springs/lube/ect?

Or what if you do if yourself?

By the way, the BWU is a niche product. It's targeted at pro-gamers. If you say it's a bad board, then your argument is invalid.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:39:30 »

Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid. Here is why:


You're going to spend roughly 80-100 (maybe more) for a decent MX board. Typically, that board is not going to have PBT caps.
You will spend another maybe 80 or so on some PBT caps, depending on what type and what vendor, etc. Maybe you want
to add some springs, stickers, lube, etc. You're probably going to need someone to do that for you. So you pay to ship your stuff
to someone, do the work, ship back to you, etc.. etc... (maybe you get the point by now....)

That's going to start getting you into the range of your 45g EK RealForce, which already
comes stock with high quality PBT caps, doesn't make half the noise and is much smoother than your stock MX board. (Right now, it's about $240). A topre is just a smoother experience out
of the box. That's not personal preference, etc. They just are.

So please, stop using the price of a topre board as your argument against Topre, because it's pretty silly. If you want to use the HHKB as the point of your argument, that's understandable as
it's a niche product, with specific target audiences in mind (programmers). So your argument is still invalid on that point, as well.

Since when did PBT sets cost $80?

And what if you don't want new springs/lube/ect?

Or what if you do if yourself?

By the way, the BWU is a niche product. It's targeted at pro-gamers. If you say it's a bad board, then your argument is invalid.


Can't tell if serious, or....


Anyways, a new set of thick PBT from imsto, lettered, is about 75 + shipping from China.


I am talking about getting a similar experience out of the box. Which isn't going to happen with a budget MX board. You would need to do all
of the above to get a similar experience to a topre board, which was my point...


Even if you do it yourself, the time investment should be worth something to you, unless you have ample time of nothing to do.


BWU is a bad board, sorry, but that's my opinion on that matter. Then again, I have tried just about all cherry switches 'tuned' or not, and prefer topre.
I am not saying this about the board in general, but the switch in general. You can put an MX switch into any keyboard, but it's still an MX switch. Dressing
it up like a christmas tree and sticking a gamer sticker on it doesn't change the typing experience.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:47:25 by Bro Caps »

Offline Thimplum

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:50:05 »

Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid. Here is why:


You're going to spend roughly 80-100 (maybe more) for a decent MX board. Typically, that board is not going to have PBT caps.
You will spend another maybe 80 or so on some PBT caps, depending on what type and what vendor, etc. Maybe you want
to add some springs, stickers, lube, etc. You're probably going to need someone to do that for you. So you pay to ship your stuff
to someone, do the work, ship back to you, etc.. etc... (maybe you get the point by now....)

That's going to start getting you into the range of your 45g EK RealForce, which already
comes stock with high quality PBT caps, doesn't make half the noise and is much smoother than your stock MX board. (Right now, it's about $240). A topre is just a smoother experience out
of the box. That's not personal preference, etc. They just are.

So please, stop using the price of a topre board as your argument against Topre, because it's pretty silly. If you want to use the HHKB as the point of your argument, that's understandable as
it's a niche product, with specific target audiences in mind (programmers). So your argument is still invalid on that point, as well.

Since when did PBT sets cost $80?

And what if you don't want new springs/lube/ect?

Or what if you do if yourself?

By the way, the BWU is a niche product. It's targeted at pro-gamers. If you say it's a bad board, then your argument is invalid.


Can't tell if serious, or....


Anyways, a new set of thick PBT from imsto, lettered, is about 75 + shipping from China.


I am talking about getting a similar experience out of the box. Which isn't going to happen with a budget MX board. You would need to do all
of the above to get a similar experience to a topre board, which was my point...


Even if you do it yourself, the time investment should be worth something to you, unless you have ample time of nothing to do.


BWU is a bad board, sorry, but that's my opinion on that matter. Then again, I have tried just about all cherry switches 'tuned' or not, and prefer topre.


qtan will sell you a full set for ~45

I'm not sure if you are trolling or serious...

I would never code on an HHKB. I don't know why they think that coders will love them. When I code, I need easy access to arrow keys, insert, home and end, ect,.

Not some wierd function layer.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:51:55 »
qtan will sell you a full set for ~45

For thick Imsto PBT caps? Link Please.


Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:54:28 »

Your argument about topre being overpriced is invalid. Here is why:


You're going to spend roughly 80-100 (maybe more) for a decent MX board. Typically, that board is not going to have PBT caps.
You will spend another maybe 80 or so on some PBT caps, depending on what type and what vendor, etc. Maybe you want
to add some springs, stickers, lube, etc. You're probably going to need someone to do that for you. So you pay to ship your stuff
to someone, do the work, ship back to you, etc.. etc... (maybe you get the point by now....)

That's going to start getting you into the range of your 45g EK RealForce, which already
comes stock with high quality PBT caps, doesn't make half the noise and is much smoother than your stock MX board. (Right now, it's about $240). A topre is just a smoother experience out
of the box. That's not personal preference, etc. They just are.

So please, stop using the price of a topre board as your argument against Topre, because it's pretty silly. If you want to use the HHKB as the point of your argument, that's understandable as
it's a niche product, with specific target audiences in mind (programmers). So your argument is still invalid on that point, as well.

Since when did PBT sets cost $80?

And what if you don't want new springs/lube/ect?

Or what if you do if yourself?

By the way, the BWU is a niche product. It's targeted at pro-gamers. If you say it's a bad board, then your argument is invalid.


Can't tell if serious, or....


Anyways, a new set of thick PBT from imsto, lettered, is about 75 + shipping from China.


I am talking about getting a similar experience out of the box. Which isn't going to happen with a budget MX board. You would need to do all
of the above to get a similar experience to a topre board, which was my point...


Even if you do it yourself, the time investment should be worth something to you, unless you have ample time of nothing to do.


BWU is a bad board, sorry, but that's my opinion on that matter. Then again, I have tried just about all cherry switches 'tuned' or not, and prefer topre.


qtan will sell you a full set for ~45

I'm not sure if you are trolling or serious...

I would never code on an HHKB. I don't know why they think that coders will love them. When I code, I need easy access to arrow keys, insert, home and end, ect,.

Not some wierd function layer.


Of blanks or lettered? Blanks yes, lettered no. I said thick imsto, which are typically higher quality and thicker. Not sure what qtan is selling. But I used that
as a general example of what a lot of people here use.


Because you can't adapt to a superior layout, doesn't mean everyone feels that way. And the Fn layer becomes natural once you get used to it.
I don't even think about it, like when shifting in a manual transmission car... you just do it.

Offline Michael

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:55:07 »
qtan will sell you a full set for ~45

For thick Imsto PBT caps? Link Please.


Exactly....

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 09:57:18 »
p-r-e-f-e-r-e-n-c-e

 :thumb: :p

Offline daerid

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Re: What makes Topre so great for typing?
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 10:12:40 »
I would never code on an HHKB. I don't know why they think that coders will love them. When I code, I need easy access to arrow keys, insert, home and end, ect,.

Not some wierd function layer.

And pretty much everybody codes just like you, right? I know plenty of developers who never even need to touch any of those keys. The HHKB is targeted toward the *nix crowd, the hardcore "old school" programmers who use vi/emacs/bash in the days before arrow keys existed on keyboards.

Because you can't adapt to a superior layout, doesn't mean everyone feels that way. And the Fn layer becomes natural once you get used to it.
I don't even think about it, like when shifting in a manual transmission car... you just do it.

Don't fall into the same trap. The HHKB isn't some empirically superior layout. It's just different, and works for some. For others (like me), it is foreign and painful to use.