Author Topic: Cutlery  (Read 7742 times)

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Offline rowdy

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Cutlery
« on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 22:00:30 »
I heard a rumour recently that 'Muricans hold the fork in their left hand and the knife in their right hand while they cut the food into bite-sized chunks, then put the knife down and transfer the fork to their right hand to actually eat it.

Is this true?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 22:02:38 »
That sounds like inefficient crazy talk!

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 22:17:39 »
Not ameri-trash like Tp4,  but maybe pinky-up sn00t-mericans.

Either way, it definitely isn't something which developed natively.  Probably inherited british sn00t.

Native' murica only produces the likes of hotdogs, meatball sub, and chikam nugats.

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 02:34:47 »
Wikipeida says it is true so it must be correct. Too bad the link to the first article is broken.

American style

In the American style, also called the zig-zag method or fork switching, the knife is initially held in the right hand and the fork in the left. Holding food to the plate with the fork tines-down, a single bite-sized piece is cut with the knife. The knife is then set down on the plate, the fork transferred from the left hand to the right hand, and the food is brought to the mouth for consumption. The fork is then transferred back to the left hand and the knife is picked up with the right.[1][6] In contrast to the European hidden handle grip, in the American style the fork is held much like a spoon or pen once it is transferred to the right hand to convey food to the mouth.[5]

tp, noisy... adjust your habits to suit.

Offline _GMK_

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 03:38:29 »
Yes, it's called cut and switch. That's crazy.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/fork-and-knife-use-americans-need-to-stop-cutting-and-switching.html?via=gdpr-consent

"when using both a fork and knife, Europeans (and everyone else, basically) will keep the fork in their left hand and the knife in the right as they cut and eat their food. But the traditionally well-mannered American, after he cuts a piece of amber-waves-of-grain-fed steak, he’ll lower his knife to his plate. And then he’ll switch the fork to his right hand to convey the food."


« Last Edit: Thu, 11 April 2019, 03:42:30 by _GMK_ »

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 05:45:41 »
I heard a rumour recently that 'Muricans hold the fork in their left hand and the knife in their right hand while they cut the food into bite-sized chunks, then put the knife down and transfer the fork to their right hand to actually eat it.

Is this true?
Wait, that's not how everyone does it?? :confused:

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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 06:11:09 »
Back in school, I had a classmate who had spent a year living with a US family. "At dinner time, on my first day, they stopped eating to look at me handling my knife and fork. They thought I was so fancy who could operate the fork with my left hand".

Offline JP

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 07:31:52 »
Sometimes I just use the knife as it were a fork  ^-^
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Offline fanpeople

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 07:39:38 »
Sometimes I just use the knife as it were a fork  ^-^

Sometimes i use spoons as knives...

Also our toliets swirl the wrong way.



Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 08:47:12 »
Yes, it is true that we switch hands and it is a difficult habit to break.

Generally, though, I do some or all of the cutting at once and then spear the pieces individually at my leisure.
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Offline _GMK_

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 09:07:21 »
Yes, it is true that we switch hands and it is a difficult habit to break.

Generally, though, I do some or all of the cutting at once and then spear the pieces individually at my leisure.

This is so incredibly awkward that I don't know how to cope with it. I can't imagine how estraniating would it be to witness the noise and the antihygenical abitude of putting your knife in your plate each time (also if it the handle doesnt' touch the food)...

And cutting for example a big nice piece of meat in many pieces before eating it, it's the worst thing that you can do, because it drains all the juices and makes the steak cold much faster.

Offline Lanrefni

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 10:41:24 »
Sometimes I just use the knife as it were a fork  ^-^
Same,I see nothing wrong with cutting off a piece of meat then spearing it with my knife tip and eating it.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 12:12:17 »


Yes, it is true that we switch hands and it is a difficult habit to break.

Generally, though, I do some or all of the cutting at once and then spear the pieces individually at my leisure.

This is so incredibly awkward that I don't know how to cope with it. I can't imagine how estraniating would it be to witness the noise and the antihygenical abitude of putting your knife in your plate each time (also if it the handle doesnt' touch the food)...

And cutting for example a big nice piece of meat in many pieces before eating it, it's the worst thing that you can do, because it drains all the juices and makes the steak cold much faster.

Why would anyone put the knife on the plate? You just put it on the table next to the plate when you're done cutting.

I usually cut the kids and wife food as well. Of course depending on what the meat is, I may just cut it up in the kitchen first before serving.

And do people seriously use a fork upside down like in that video above?? That's so weird.

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Offline Blackehart

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 12:29:00 »
Umm, here's a radical thought, just use the fork with your left.
I mean...you already preformed the hard part, is it that difficult to raise the fork to your mouth?
Iono, maybe I dont GAF how you get food on a fork to your mouth.
Heck, if the meat is tender enough, I'll cut it with the edge of the fork. Radical, i know.
 :))

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 12:46:19 »


Umm, here's a radical thought, just use the fork with your left.


Heck, if the meat is tender enough, I'll cut it with the edge of the fork. Radical, i know.
 :))

For me it's just because I'm right handed (my left hand is almost useless) so if I need to use a knife I use my right hand to cut then when I'm ready to use a fork I use my right hand to eat with.

My kids are left handed I think they mainly use a fork with their left hand.

I also like to use the edge of the fork to cut as well.

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 16:57:31 »
Chikam Nugats

Fish Fingr

Mozrela Stix

Frenfry

Leave cutlery in the dust.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 17:21:07 »
Chikam Nugats

Fish Fingr

Mozrela Stix

Frenfry

Leave cutlery in the dust.


whats up with the flip phone text speak

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 17:24:25 »


whats up with the flip phone text speak

U know Tp4 can't fordz fone.. Tp4 saving calories.. reduced typn load.

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 18:14:20 »

Frenfry


FU ALL I READ WAS FIREFLY. THEN I ASSUMED THEY WERE MAKING ANOTHER SEASON BUT YOU SAID FRENCH FRIES.

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:34:42 »

Frenfry


FU ALL I READ WAS FIREFLY. THEN I ASSUMED THEY WERE MAKING ANOTHER SEASON BUT YOU SAID FRENCH FRIES.

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Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:44:01 »
I feel like such a savage for cutting my food with my left hand :-[

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:46:14 »
I feel like such a savage for cutting my food with my left hand :-[

I actually can't cut that well with left.. not much practice.

No many opportunities for the rest of my life either,  All rice  from here.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:02:11 »
Yes, it is true that we switch hands and it is a difficult habit to break.

Generally, though, I do some or all of the cutting at once and then spear the pieces individually at my leisure.

If it was true, which it apparently is, that was going to be the next question - do you cut all the food up first into bite-sized chunks and then eat them with the fork in the right hand, or cut one mouthful, swap cutlery, eat, swap cutlery back and repeat until the plate is empty?

According to that video, general practice is to cut one mouthful first, swap cutlery, eat, swap back.

link
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline fanpeople

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:11:32 »
And if you were to cut all the food up before commencing the eating process, why not just cut all the food up as part of the preparation process. Then it could be served pre-cut.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 03:11:57 »
And if you were to cut all the food up before commencing the eating process, why not just cut all the food up as part of the preparation process. Then it could be served pre-cut.

That's just unamerican, need guns and knives @ the table..

Offline _GMK_

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 05:30:13 »


Yes, it is true that we switch hands and it is a difficult habit to break.

Generally, though, I do some or all of the cutting at once and then spear the pieces individually at my leisure.

This is so incredibly awkward that I don't know how to cope with it. I can't imagine how estraniating would it be to witness the noise and the antihygenical abitude of putting your knife in your plate each time (also if it the handle doesnt' touch the food)...

And cutting for example a big nice piece of meat in many pieces before eating it, it's the worst thing that you can do, because it drains all the juices and makes the steak cold much faster.

Why would anyone put the knife on the plate? You just put it on the table next to the plate when you're done cutting.

I usually cut the kids and wife food as well. Of course depending on what the meat is, I may just cut it up in the kitchen first before serving.

And do people seriously use a fork upside down like in that video above?? That's so weird.

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So you put your knife on the table... and you don't stain the table cloth? And when you stain the table cloth, day after day, you'll end up putting your knife where someone else stained it? That's ridiculous and unigyenical. The more I talk about this, the more it seems really strange. It's an habit that came from France, sometime between 1800-1850, and in 1850 it was already completely forgotten and abandoned everywhere but not in the USA.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 05:45:18 »




Yes, it is true that we switch hands and it is a difficult habit to break.

Generally, though, I do some or all of the cutting at once and then spear the pieces individually at my leisure.

This is so incredibly awkward that I don't know how to cope with it. I can't imagine how estraniating would it be to witness the noise and the antihygenical abitude of putting your knife in your plate each time (also if it the handle doesnt' touch the food)...

And cutting for example a big nice piece of meat in many pieces before eating it, it's the worst thing that you can do, because it drains all the juices and makes the steak cold much faster.

Why would anyone put the knife on the plate? You just put it on the table next to the plate when you're done cutting.

I usually cut the kids and wife food as well. Of course depending on what the meat is, I may just cut it up in the kitchen first before serving.

And do people seriously use a fork upside down like in that video above?? That's so weird.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

So you put your knife on the table... and you don't stain the table cloth? And when you stain the table cloth, day after day, you'll end up putting your knife where someone else stained it? That's ridiculous and unigyenical. The more I talk about this, the more it seems really strange. It's an habit that came from France, sometime between 1800-1850, and in 1850 it was already completely forgotten and abandoned everywhere but not in the USA.

Table cloth? There's no table cloth, you all must have some high brow dining going on. Next you'll admit to having carpet in the bathroom.

And what exactly are you cutting that makes a knife so 'dirty'? Typically when I'm done cutting there isn't much residue left on the knife, maybe your knife isn't very sharp.

I mean worse case you just lick the knife clean. For something like peanut butter and jelly, maybe?

 France can't be all bad right? We got the statue of liberty, french fries, french toast, french dressing (this one is kinda gross), french kissing (but that's only for married folks), and I'm sure some other good stuff.

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Offline _GMK_

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 09:28:39 »
French people used the cut and switch for a very short time, and by 1850 the habit was dead because they thought that it sucked. What does this has to do with France now?

Offline azhdar

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 10:43:10 »
I used to cut and switch. Am French btw for the one that wouldn't know.
But with practice I lost that habbit, because I realised it was subefficient.

I find it very logical that your body tells you to cut and switch in the first place:
- your left hand is much less skilled, you give her the lesser tasks
- like holding the meat while your good hand cuts it

It's time inefficient up until you train your left hand.

So in a meat situation, knife on the  right, fork on the left.
In a non meat or very easy to cut meat , knife on the left, fork on the left.
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 10:58:43 »
I've read that training up your left hand on mundane tasks like brushing teeth, writing, may create/unlock new brain circuits.

This won't increase processing capacity overall, but may provide more propensity for alternate perspectives.

Feminists would argue, women already possess this ability as their brain scans show more balanced left/right lobe activations.

Offline azhdar

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 12:06:23 »
It's important to train your left hand.
Broke my right hand while living on my own.
During weeks it was out of usage.
Your learn.
Go break an arm tp
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 12:12:16 »
It's important to train your left hand.
Broke my right hand while living on my own.
During weeks it was out of usage.
Your learn.
Go break an arm tp

Tp play dat typn' o the dead.

Offline Lanrefni

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 15:39:55 »
It's important to train your left hand.
Broke my right hand while living on my own.
During weeks it was out of usage.
Your learn.
Go break an arm tp

Getting carpal tunnel surgery on  my right hand next month,should be interesting since I'm mainly a righty,not being able to use my left hand much for the last month also due to carpal tunnel surgery sucked.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 15:44:11 »
It's important to train your left hand.
Broke my right hand while living on my own.
During weeks it was out of usage.
Your learn.
Go break an arm tp

Getting carpal tunnel surgery on  my right hand next month,should be interesting since I'm mainly a righty,not being able to use my left hand much for the last month also due to carpal tunnel surgery sucked.

What caused Lanrefni carpel tunnel ?

Offline invariance

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 20:00:39 »
Trying to write with the other hand when the dominant one has been injured is quite a challenge.
Happened to me when I was at Uni and all my subjects were handwritten note taking.  Made review and study hard trying to decipher what the hell I wrote.
The only BS I
want to hear is
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 20:06:00 »
Trying to write with the other hand when the dominant one has been injured is quite a challenge.
Happened to me when I was at Uni and all my subjects were handwritten note taking.  Made review and study hard trying to decipher what the hell I wrote.

Y u no get GF to take all ur notes 4 u ?

Offline Lanrefni

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 20:29:55 »
It's important to train your left hand.
Broke my right hand while living on my own.
During weeks it was out of usage.
Your learn.
Go break an arm tp

Getting carpal tunnel surgery on  my right hand next month,should be interesting since I'm mainly a righty,not being able to use my left hand much for the last month also due to carpal tunnel surgery sucked.

What caused Lanrefni carpel tunnel ?

Crap posture,and not having my desk set to the right height kept my hands bent upward for way too long,I have since adjusted the desk and my keyboard but the damage was done. :/

Offline invariance

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 20:50:16 »
Trying to write with the other hand when the dominant one has been injured is quite a challenge.
Happened to me when I was at Uni and all my subjects were handwritten note taking.  Made review and study hard trying to decipher what the hell I wrote.

Y u no get GF to take all ur notes 4 u ?


Being a geek = socially inept = no gf 🙂
The only BS I
want to hear is
from a Model M:
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 22:14:52 »


Being a geek = socially inept = no gf 🙂

Did you guyes not get a nice hair cut like I told y'all last year ?



Offline azhdar

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 13 April 2019, 04:55:06 »
Going undercut is how you get a gf amarite?
Is tp rocking an undercut?
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 13 April 2019, 08:35:24 »
Going undercut is how you get a gf amarite?
Is tp rocking an undercut?

Tp4 doesn't usually leave the top as long as most undercuts, it's a bit too hot for summer.

If y'all go to the salon,  names for haircuts aren't very precise, it's best if you bring a magazine photo, or something on your phone to show the stylist exactly what you want.

Make sure to ask them, if they think that style would work on you. perhaps pick out multiple styles ahead of time.


Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 14 April 2019, 08:27:10 »
I hold the knife in my right hand sometimes and eat with my left.

Or ... finger food. Perfect solution   ^-^

Offline rowdy

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 14 April 2019, 22:07:08 »
I've read that training up your left hand on mundane tasks like brushing teeth, writing, may create/unlock new brain circuits.

This won't increase processing capacity overall, but may provide more propensity for alternate perspectives.

Feminists would argue, women already possess this ability as their brain scans show more balanced left/right lobe activations.


I regularly stir my coffee with my left hand.  Well ... with a spoon held in my left hand (being right-handed and everything).  Apparently it makes the bridge between brain hemispheres stronger, more resilient to future brain damage.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 14 April 2019, 22:07:15 »
I hold the knife in my right hand sometimes and eat with my left.

Or ... finger food. Perfect solution   ^-^

Good point!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 12:12:22 »
Edit: Use knifes for both hands

Offline invariance

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 19:25:50 »
The perfect solution


The only BS I
want to hear is
from a Model M:
PN:1391401
DOB: 04FEB87
      Wyse 85      Mtek K104
SMK Blue: Chicony KB-5181; HyperX Aqua: HyperX Alloy Origins *Yet-to-rebuild: A 69 key C. P. Clare Foam & Foil assy *Rubber: Digital LK46W-A2; uSoft Natural Pro RT9401, Natural Multimedia 1.0A RT9470, Natural Ergonomic 4000 KU-0460; "Avid" Sejin SLKR2233; "Diamond Touch" Mitsubishi 6511-PB

Offline romevi

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Re: Cutlery
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 19:52:14 »
No.