Current highest quality Cherry switch board, period? Serious about this.

[typo]

Okay I took out backlighting since all the current ones are of low quality.
I mean the highest build quality, not features Etc.
Must have PBT/Pom caps Double Shot or Dyesub,Thick. Spacebar can be ABS but prefer PBT/POM. Case can be anything that is sturdy and does not flex.
Plate or PCB is fine.
The heaviest Tactile non clicky possible.
No Korean Customs. Something I can order and have shipped promptly. Unless there is something on the horizon. Or someone has a Korean ready to ship.
Not made in China would be a big bonus. It is not required however.
Detachable cord is a bonus but also not required.
Full size standard Windows layout.
Under $500 is a bonus but not required either.
It does not matter if the profile is flat or stepped.

I just prefer Cherry switches vastly to Topre. Call me odd.
My Decks are fine and meet most of these requirements but just looking for something new if possible. I am just wondering what is out there now. Must be in stock anywhere on the Net.

I am not trying to Spam.Troll. This is a serious matter to me. You alll know I have contributed to this forum as well. Reviews do not simply say which one is the absolute best built. Ie, RealForce(not RGB) quality but with Cherry switches. Preferably as heavy as possible. Even linear will do. For that matter if the quality is there I will settle for browns or blues.
My other thread got derailed because I insisted on Backlit. As mentioned in that thread there are currently no high quality Backlit boards. Not even the RealForce RGB. Apparently TG3 is the only company that ever took Backlit seriously. Mainly aimed at Gamers, as you all know and the board was simply too expensive leading to it's demise. However as I said above price is not an object within reason but must be in stock somewhere. I just say that because $100,000 would be kind of ridiculous if that even exists.

I am serious about this and hope some folks will add ideas. Not what you perceive to be quality but rather something that is universally regarded as such. If it turns out there is nothing currently made I will consider used so long as it is on Ebay, Etc.

Thank all of you here 

[Joey Quinn]

Buy a WASD Code with clears and swap the caps.

[Puddsy]

Prebuilt? Filco. Slap some GMK one one and you're good forever.

Kit? 356CL (but you'll never get one).

Easiliy available, cheap (ish) kit? Probably MIRA or CLS right now. Get in on Moon if you don't want to try and finagle a spot.

[typo]

Probably the code. Where can I get a full set of Double Shot PBT or Dyesub PBT for it? It looks like there is no longer a Filco with Clears. Korean as you said never get it. Even though I have Three but they are TKL. The most I want to do is switch the caps anyways. So I just need a source for them. I did not realize the Filco is that good but I am confident with the WASD. If only I liked Topre switches. I know I am the odd Guy out on that. I have Two like new RealForce 55G High profile and Two or Three HHKB. I especially do not like anything other than a full layout. Model F/M does not do it for me either I have a few. It is the MX Clear that I love.  I love the decks just fine but they have one issue. Every now and then cold solder joints will show up. I have Three of them. They were hand made but I guess solder loosens with age or something. Plus PCB does not help. It is a tank though. Compare the weight.  I would prefer a board with caps already on it if possible. I mean made that way from the manufacturer. If possible. It is time for a brand new board now.  I appreciate the ideas.

[tp4tissue]

Ergodox.. Booooom.. Done..

[klennkellon]

Ergodox.. Booooom.. Done..

I think you like the ergo-dox!

[czarek]

Filco or Ducky. Please just be careful with Filco and Cherry profile caps, especially thick GMK ones as they don't quite fit with the Costar stabs and rub the switches when bottomed out making them feel a bit mushy. Ducky is fine in this regard. I don't like kinda gamer asthetic of Ducky though, and their non-gamer lower end products are not as good quality as Filcos.

As for WASD, I really like the way they look but their cases have very sharp corners and bottom left corner scratches my palm constantly when I type.
Also I had 2 of their keyboards and one came with non clicky blues (well some of them clicked faintly), the other came with silent reds that felt a bit funny. It's like they used too high temperature for soldering switches or some second grade switches, not confirmed though, just my bad experience with them.

And yeah as someone recommended ErgoDox it's a viable option if you like the layout since you can get a custom made one. You can also get a lot of custom built Cherry based keyboards nowadays, some not even that expensive. Especially if you're based in EU check out our shop, otherwise there are plenty others (including ours) that ship worldwide and will be happy to build a nice custom board.

[Entropia]

Leopold, Varmilo or Ducky are the best choices.

[typo]

$500-$600 is okay. I did not mean low end but highest quality. I know that will cost a bit. Ducky honestly seems to me like Razer Etc. Maybe a little higher quality. Now the Filco is out since no thick PBT. GMK are ABS anyways, right? Must be PBT/POM DoubleShot or Dyesub. Probably better to get custom. Since the board+Caps will be about that much anyways. The Deck was basically custom and backlit. As I said soldering issues and I own a few of them. I did not know you can wreck the switch overheating it. That explains a lot. These are cold joints that show up randomly years after new. Strange. I guess I will look at customs but I do not wish to wait more than 3 months and must have cheap shipping to US. I have come across some Koreans i purchased. I do not know where you go looking for a custom though? Off the shelf the Two best ones Ducky and filco do not realy impres me. I like WASD but now you concern me. How can they sell $250 boards with ABS if they have that issue? I believe you though. The Decks are perfect but they are very difficult to solder and I would need to rework an entire board to be safe. This is more difficult than I thought. I do not think there is actually any very high end off the shelf board anymore? Well, WASD except for the issue you mention. Custom depends on what it is. I just want a standard Win layout 104-105 key. So something else has to be special to justify it like Aluminum case or something. Those Coler Masters look nice, can I put keys on those. Then there is the question of if there ar complete PBT sets. I saw Varmilo and thought it was lower grade? Leopold I know is good and forgot about. If I can get the caps on the board I would be happier. I guess these are just not really aimed at typing such as Topre for the most part Gaming. Sorry for so many questions Thanks Guy's.

[dante]

Your focus is all wrong.  You should start by selecting high quality keyboard switches before you worry about the board.

[Justintoxicated]

So ducky and filco are better than these?

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/3-custom-kbds-w-assembly

[davkol]

Has GON actually started to deliver?

[chyros]

Your focus is all wrong.  You should start by selecting high quality keyboard switches before you worry about the board.

Heheheh, touche.

[Tiramisuu]

One could argue for the CHERRY MX BOARD 6.0.

The customs on average aren't great quality.
Most are kind of half assed  but it's the only way of getting nkro, fully programmable, ortholinear etc. 
They simply aren't made in bulk.

If you are will to drop megabucks on the ergodox ez it looks fairly consistently made.
The customs are as good and the builder and the fitment is as good as the kit.   Completely hit and miss.
Paying a premium for a hand wired or home 3d printed board doesn't get you polish.

[Puddsy]

Has GON actually started to deliver?

LMAO no

So ducky and filco are better than these?

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/3-custom-kbds-w-assembly

Yes, because if you order a ducky/filco, it'll actually show up in the mail.

[Leslieann]

$500-$600 is okay. I did not mean low end but highest quality. I know that will cost a bit. Ducky honestly seems to me like Razer Etc. Maybe a little higher quality. Now the Filco is out since no thick PBT.

Spending more will not help.
Low volume items generally have more issues than high volume items since there is more testing done. Do you honestly think someone who makes 50-100 keyboards is going be better at it than a company who makes 50k of them a year? Yes, that aluminum Korean custom is nice, but how many people worked on the electronics, how many did the electronics, do you know their qualifications, how about test procedures or quality control? I'm not saying a Korean custom is bad, it's just that Filco is built by Costar who build tons and tons of keyboards and have this process finely tuned, vs a guy (possibly) doing them in his garage in his spare time. You may get a fantastic one, or a bad one, and you also may get one from an entire batch that had a flaw and it's not serious enough or he can't afford to redo it and fix it.


By the way, if thick PBT is a requirement, you just threw out 99% of everything on the market, in fact, it pretty much narrows down to just one or two manufacturers, and one of them, is certainly not the best.


On the other hand, if your budget is that high, then the best option is to combine things, like a Filco with aftermarket key caps. You are still FAR below your threshold on price and you have the best of it all.

[pr0ximity]

Maybe a Filco with one of those Lambo cases. EZ, no frills, high quality feel. Then get some good caps.

Unfortunately you'll never quite get "highest quality Cherry" retail, lubed switches are required. Plate options are also limited: you won't get a brass or top-mounted plate on any retail board.

[typo]

The problem with Customs is they are either Vaporware or Take Months to ship plus require some degree of assembly at a minimum. I am fine with stock Switches. The plate does not matter to me, nor does NKRO,Macro's ETC. So little use for a custom. Plus I already have Three Koreans. TKL though. I set the bar that high because I did not realize they were less expensive. The MX 6.0 is nice except I do not want Red's. I figure I am just going to get a Filco and Get Keys. Two questions remain and this is it. One, Is the Filco built as well As the Deck Legend was? Two, Where do I get a full set of PBT keys? Thank you Guy's.

[Giorgio]

Do you know that the most recent cherry switches are smoother?

[Giorgio]

Get a pcb mounted uniqey q100 keyboard. If you don't like the switches, you can easily replace them without desoldering.

[Leslieann]

The problem with Customs is they are either Vaporware or Take Months to ship plus require some degree of assembly at a minimum. I am fine with stock Switches. The plate does not matter to me, nor does NKRO,Macro's ETC. So little use for a custom. Plus I already have Three Koreans. TKL though. I set the bar that high because I did not realize they were less expensive. The MX 6.0 is nice except I do not want Red's. I figure I am just going to get a Filco and Get Keys. Two questions remain and this is it. One, Is the Filco built as well As the Deck Legend was? Two, Where do I get a full set of PBT keys? Thank you Guy's.

Filco is pretty much the standard for quality that others are measured by, so it should probably be is the Deck built as well as the Filco.
I haven't seen inside a Deck, but I would imagine they are comparable, besides, once you reach a certain point, quality becomes a pissing contest.

As for keycaps
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=40

[Rayoui]

Why not just take the keycaps off one of the Deck boards you have sitting around and slap them on a Filco?

Alternatively, Leopold makes some high quality boards that come with thick PBT keycaps.

[Jokrik]

Filco baby!

[Giorgio]

Get a pcb mounted uniqey q100 keyboard. If you don't like the switches, you can easily replace them without desoldering.

I forgot to tell you that uniqey keyboards have gmk doubleshot keycaps 

Available in ansi and iso de.

[SpAmRaY]

Get one of the Leopold boards with stock thick PBT caps. You won't find one with clears but browns, reds and blacks are available.

I used to swear by clears and now use silent reds.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[typo]

The uniqey looks like what I want. GMK are ABS and do get shiny. So I will have to replace them. So the uniqey The way I want it is $307USD and $100+ for a keyset. Still under my budget. It does look a step above Filco and Leopold. Plus there are very few boards with clear switches. The uniqey may in fact be higher quality then the Deck. PBT case Vs. Aluminum. Both pretty darn robust.

The Deck Legend was a nonstandard layout. No standardized caps are compatible with it and likewise it's caps Will fit almost no other board. The caps are actually more robust than even any other PBT caps. That is why they are in nearly every Cop car. They build them like that to this day for a reason. It is not to save money. The equipment to do this cost them 3 Million USD according to them. Many people dislike them however. If they fit another board that would be ideal for me but highly unlikely. Plus they are not very good unbacklit.

Edit: I see the keysets are like $30-$50. That is good. I did not know they were that cheap. I wonder what a 105 TG3 set costs if they sold them which they do not.

I will probably get the uniqey and the keyset at Mechanialkeyboards.

Thank you Guys. This thread achieved exactly as I wished. To expose a high end board I was unaware of.

[Giorgio]

Happy that you have chosen the uniqey! I would have bought it too if they offered iso-uk. There are many group buys for silent switches right now, so I would buy the uniqey to install on my own the silent switches (you just replace the top of the switch and the stem, withou desoldering. Anyway you can purchese the clips as a separate purchase, in the same order.

Have you visited https://uniqey.net/ ?

You can personalize the color of the case, the wood on the sides, and the color of the keycaps too!

[SpAmRaY]

The uniqey looks like what I want. GMK are ABS and do get shiny. So I will have to replace them. So the uniqey The way I want it is $307USD and $100+ for a keyset. Still under my budget. It does look a step above Filco and Leopold. Plus there are very few boards with clear switches. The uniqey may in fact be higher quality then the Deck. PBT case Vs. Aluminum. Both pretty darn robust.

The Deck Legend was a nonstandard layout. No standardized caps are compatible with it and likewise it's caps Will fit almost no other board. The caps are actually more robust than even any other PBT caps. That is why they are in nearly every Cop car. They build them like that to this day for a reason. It is not to save money. The equipment to do this cost them 3 Million USD according to them. Many people dislike them however. If they fit another board that would be ideal for me but highly unlikely. Plus they are not very good unbacklit.

Edit: I see the keysets are like $30-$50. That is good. I did not know they were that cheap. I wonder what a 105 TG3 set costs if they sold them which they do not.

I will probably get the uniqey and the keyset at Mechanialkeyboards.

Thank you Guys. This thread achieved exactly as I wished. To expose a high end board I was unaware of.

If you are putting a $30 dollar keyset in place of GMK ABS that makes no sense to me.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Rayoui]

The uniqey looks like what I want. GMK are ABS and do get shiny. So I will have to replace them. So the uniqey The way I want it is $307USD and $100+ for a keyset. Still under my budget. It does look a step above Filco and Leopold. Plus there are very few boards with clear switches. The uniqey may in fact be higher quality then the Deck. PBT case Vs. Aluminum. Both pretty darn robust.

The Deck Legend was a nonstandard layout. No standardized caps are compatible with it and likewise it's caps Will fit almost no other board. The caps are actually more robust than even any other PBT caps. That is why they are in nearly every Cop car. They build them like that to this day for a reason. It is not to save money. The equipment to do this cost them 3 Million USD according to them. Many people dislike them however. If they fit another board that would be ideal for me but highly unlikely. Plus they are not very good unbacklit.

Edit: I see the keysets are like $30-$50. That is good. I did not know they were that cheap. I wonder what a 105 TG3 set costs if they sold them which they do not.

I will probably get the uniqey and the keyset at Mechanialkeyboards.

Thank you Guys. This thread achieved exactly as I wished. To expose a high end board I was unaware of.

If you are putting a $30 dollar keyset in place of GMK ABS that makes no sense to me.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Agreed. GMK caps are some of the best you can get. You might want to give them a try before you swap them out. You may find that you really enjoy them.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Pre built?  Leopold 750R (Or equivalent size you prefer) 980M also a nice layout if you need a Numpad.


No other stock Cherry board I have used or owns comes close.

Filco,Das,KUL,Ducky,Deck,Ganss,VORTEX,KBP, etc etc etc.

Custom?  No clue as my knowledge of those is very small. 

[shadowku]

In my experience, Filco and newer Leopolds are some of the best pre-built keyboards I've seen in terms of quality.

As for the people here saying WASD's Code Keyboard is of high quality.. I've seen quite a few of those boards lately where a switch wasn't working or an LED or two wasn't lighting up. One of my friends had to send it back two times before he got one that was in perfect working order.

For any of these keyboards, you're probably going to want to swap out the keycaps.

[cultofjosh]

I've used both a Filco TKL with Cherry blacks and a WASD Code TKL with clears at home. I love the WASD and feel pretty meh about the Filco, but that's probably more a reflection of my taste in switches than the keyboards themselves. I think you'll be fine with any reputable keyboard as long as you know what you like in switches. Although I wouldn't go as far as to suggest a Razer with switches you like...

I'm guessing Vortex is one of the lower quality manufacturers being mentioned? I've had 2 poker 2s. The one with clears started freaking out every once in a while at one point so I stopped using it because it was too annoying. The one with browns is still going strong and is the older one. I have a beautiful FMJ poker case so I'll likely be purchasing a poker 3 with clears soon.

[typo]

I have most certainly been to  https://uniqey.net/! I am just mustering up the courage to send $307 USD To Germany LOL. Oh, nothing against Germany but somehow I think money gets lost duh! Not like they send it post, it is electronic transfer. I know but I am pretty old school about those things. I know they are 100% legit. I hope they can get it to me in a few months. Just hate waiting. I will give the GMK a run first. I do not see how ABS can be any good but I know those are highly touted. So no harm to try them first. Decks keys are just built for maximum robustness as used in Cop cars. Most of you luckily have no idea what goes on in cop cars but it is mostly the Doughnuts that kills their boards HAHA. I can see though why many people do not like it for typing. Their issue sems to be cold solder joints. I cannot really say that though because we are talking 15020 years later there are failures. Although a model F usually gives us no problems so go figure. Filco,Leopold do not appear to be in the same league as Uniqey. I hope I am not sorry and bet I am not. Honestly $300 is not the end of the world. RealForce used to be that much. One thing though I hope i do not get screwed on Postage and Customs. Customs will open it and probably figure it is nothing unusual so I imagine all good. It is not like they are opening a box of African Diamonds. anyways, Germany is not on their radar. I have gotten screwed though. Once I ordered Jewels from Greece and Had to fight Customs because they were thinking they were way more valuable than they actually wre. Had to fax the Receipt to NY Airport and everything. They held them up 3 weeks. When the guy would have had them to me in less than a week. I doubt that happens with Germany. just giving my self things to worry about since I will be waiting for it. I am OCD like that! Thanks guy's. I pretty much made up my mind. $200+ on something else when $100 more I am pretty sure is buying a different level of quality. Like a Korean but probably not made in someones garage I suppose. these GMK wil be interesting. I do not know How ABS can be any good but I do read they are very good. Plus I hate pulling every single key. A few, fine. I will let you Guy's know about it once it is here. Unless someone really thinks a Filco,Leopold is actually better but I just cannot see that being the case. Thank you Guy's this helped a lot. Glad I posted the right question!

[shadowku]

Hmm I only came across the Uniqey recently and by looking at the renders, I thought it looks a bit cheap. It reminds me of Dell/HP keyboards.
I still don't like the look, but I'm looking for reviews of this thing. Very interesting.

[Rayoui]

I have most certainly been to  https://uniqey.net/! I am just mustering up the courage to send $307 USD To Germany LOL. Oh, nothing against Germany but somehow I think money gets lost duh! Not like they send it post, it is electronic transfer. I know but I am pretty old school about those things. I know they are 100% legit. I hope they can get it to me in a few months. Just hate waiting. I will give the GMK a run first. I do not see how ABS can be any good but I know those are highly touted. So no harm to try them first. Decks keys are just built for maximum robustness as used in Cop cars. Most of you luckily have no idea what goes on in cop cars but it is mostly the Doughnuts that kills their boards HAHA. I can see though why many people do not like it for typing. Their issue sems to be cold solder joints. I cannot really say that though because we are talking 15020 years later there are failures. Although a model F usually gives us no problems so go figure. Filco,Leopold do not appear to be in the same league as Uniqey. I hope I am not sorry and bet I am not. Honestly $300 is not the end of the world. RealForce used to be that much. One thing though I hope i do not get screwed on Postage and Customs. Customs will open it and probably figure it is nothing unusual so I imagine all good. It is not like they are opening a box of African Diamonds. anyways, Germany is not on their radar. I have gotten screwed though. Once I ordered Jewels from Greece and Had to fight Customs because they were thinking they were way more valuable than they actually wre. Had to fax the Receipt to NY Airport and everything. They held them up 3 weeks. When the guy would have had them to me in less than a week. I doubt that happens with Germany. just giving my self things to worry about since I will be waiting for it. I am OCD like that! Thanks guy's. I pretty much made up my mind. $200+ on something else when $100 more I am pretty sure is buying a different level of quality. Like a Korean but probably not made in someones garage I suppose. these GMK wil be interesting. I do not know How ABS can be any good but I do read they are very good. Plus I hate pulling every single key. A few, fine. I will let you Guy's know about it once it is here. Unless someone really thinks a Filco,Leopold is actually better but I just cannot see that being the case. Thank you Guy's this helped a lot. Glad I posted the right question!

Don't be so quick to judge quality simply based on cost. I certainly wouldn't say the Uniqey is "a different level of quality." It has an aluminum case, but it is very different from a CNC'd Korean custom or similar. The Uniqey is just a folded piece of aluminum sheet metal, not much different than a Corsair K70.

If you are looking for a solid typing feel, the Filco or Leopold would probably be the better choice as the Uniqey does not have plate mounted switches. That could be a boon or bane, depending on what you are looking for. The absence of a plate means you can remove the switch tops and it makes for a more "cushioned" typing feel.

Just make sure you know exactly what you are getting before you spend $300+ on a board.

[Leslieann]

If you are looking for a solid typing feel, the Filco or Leopold would probably be the better choice as the Uniqey does not have plate mounted switches. That could be a boon or bane, depending on what you are looking for. The absence of a plate means you can remove the switch tops and it makes for a more "cushioned" typing feel.

No plate in a full size? WTF.
The Aluminum frame (skin is more like it), is not going to make up for the a lack of a plate. Unless you use a ton of screws to fasten the pcb down to the baseplate (and I doubt they used that many) it's going to flex, a lot and inconsistently.

[Giorgio]

Uniqey doesn't have this problem.
Read the reviews!

[Leslieann]

Uniqey doesn't have this problem.
Read the reviews!

None of the reviews on my Vortex Race mentioned it either and it twists like a wet noodle.

I would genuinely be surprised if it could match a Filco, Das, Leopold, Model M, etc.. in stiffness without a plate. It may be fine, many people think rubber domes are fine, but it's pretty much impossible to match that stiffness without plate mount because it's almost impossible to brace a pcb the same way.

There is also the human factor, if you just spent $300 on a keyboard, odds are you aren't going to want to say it's no better than anything else, much less admit that it's terrible. This is also applies to Topre, Apple, KMAC, etc., people see the price and "just know" it must be better. Perceived quality plays with people's minds.

[Skull_Angel]

Can only give you my own experiences; started out with a Plum plu-ml-3000 ("cheap", but decent at the time), moved onto Ducky Shine 2 (great board, build quality was a noted step up), then onto a Varmilo VA-87m (comparable to Leopold/manufactured in the same factory). The quality difference between the Ducky and Varmilo was not a wide margin; no issues out of the box (not uncommon for there to be dead LED issues with any backlit board though), the PCB looked cleaner on the Varmilo, but the solder joints were comparable and good. I'd suspect this follows suit with any well regarded manufacturer; I've taken a good look at a lot of PCBs and the top manufacturers don't have issues with cold joints, overflow, or bleed out.

I did do some light modding to the Varmilo for fun; swapped the case for a CNC aluminum one from Amazon and Cherry POM alphas from Signature Plastics. Solid typing experience which should hold me over until some of the custom stuff comes through (can't wait for some sweet 75% goodness!).

[davkol]

I would genuinely be surprised if it could match a Filco, Das, Leopold, Model M, etc.. in stiffness without a plate. It may be fine, many people think rubber domes are fine, but it's pretty much impossible to match that stiffness without plate mount because it's almost impossible to brace a pcb the same way.

Have you ever used a Cherry G80-1000? This should be similar but with a metal case.

Heck, I've just tried my G80-2100 and while yes, the plastic case creaks when twisted (who sane would do that anyway?), there's a tiny amount of give even when smashing keys hard. I don't get how that's a bad thing, unless people (a) enjoy punching walls for fun as well, (b) need the keyboard to be sufficiently different to justify the purchase.

[Giorgio]

This is one of the many reviews that say that the keyboard doesn't flex

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65741.msg2391709#msg2391709

"Having my Uniqey for about a week now, and just love it. It is solid, heavy, no flex, no wriggling, keys sit very tight and the caps are beautiful (my first GMK caps) it's just wow!"

[dante]

Also to note just because something is smaller and PCB mounted doesn't mean it won't flex.  My Poker 1 flexed like crazy in the middle of the PCB; however this was corrected with the KBT Pure when they added an additional screw.

[lolkey]

Varmilo boards are severely underrated, imo. Their cherry clone stabilizers are the best stabilizers I've ever used. Their boards have a really high quality feel, and their packaging is amazing. I still remember getting my first mech, the Filco. I thought at the time it was the best board from what I had read, and it came in just a cardboard box with no padding. My Pok3r also came in just a cardboard box with no padding and had broken solder balls rolling around inside the case, lol. Sent it back for a replacement. Varmilo comes in a nice magnetic box with a full thick foam layer inside with a really nice representation like you paid for a quality product. The dye sub keycaps alone sell for like $70 on mechanicalkeyboards.com, but you can get a TKL board for like $150 shipped with great quality caps. Meanwhile a Filco TKL is $150 comes packaged like ****, has garbage keycaps, has horrible flex and cracking sounds from plastic flexing in the winter when heat kicks on.

They have an e-mail which you can order directly from them. They give you a ton of customization options, like a wide selection of layouts, dye sub caps, plate color, case color, cherry keys, gateron, rgb, etc.

[lolkey]

double post

[lolkey]

triple post 

[Auk]

triple post 

time to get a new mouse? check if you have a double click fault: http://unixpapa.com/js/testmouse.html

[lolkey]

triple post 

time to get a new mouse? check if you have a double click fault: http://unixpapa.com/js/testmouse.html

 ) No, I kept hitting quote instead of modify.

[Entropia]

I don't see the point of spending more money simply because you can. That will not always grant that you will get a better keyboard. Some models simply are overpriced and others keep on being premium boards with all you could ever wish and for the right price. My advice is: get a Leopold, a Varmilo or a Ducky.

[Giorgio]

Time to lock this thread.

[Leslieann]

I don't get how that's a bad thing, unless people (a) enjoy punching walls for fun as well, (b) need the keyboard to be sufficiently different to justify the purchase.

My Filco TKL has an extra thick stainless steel plate inside a Vortex aluminum case, while stiff, it's still not like punching a wall.

I have yet to use a Cherry keyboard without a plate that didn't come across as barely better than a cheap rubber dome keyboard.

[typo]

Okay, now I am stalling here. the Uniqey has Media keys and locks whiich I do not want. The Filco and Leopold AFAIK are not available with very heavy switches. Plus I am not sure those boards are actually better than the Deck. The deck is PCB mounted full board and no flex unless you are intent on snapping the thing. Which you may not even be able to do with your hands unless you are MR. Universe. It does have about 20+ screws. It is a PBT case. So perhaps those are the reasons 20 years later there is no creak or flex for that matter. It is extremely solid at about 11 pounds. I know it says somewhere 5.5 pounds or something but I have weighed it. The cable is replaceable but you have to open the case, then build a cable. At least if Kitty chews it not the end of it. I now agree with all of you about the Uniqey other than what I mentioned turns me off. For $307 USD plus customs I am going to nitpick. You can get a RealForce for about $200. The Deck was originally $300 as well. I am just tired of solder joints failing and having to open the 20+ screws but they are after 20 years old. However Model F/M does not have that issue so makes me wonder. Also the controller is complicated. If something serious goes wrong I plan to spend 2-3 days troubleshooting. I am very happy with the flat profile and Clears. Even with the lack of a plate they are plenty heavy. I still bottom them out! So it would honestly be Filco or Leopold for a new board I suppose. I do not know if they are built like the Deck and I cannot get the switches I want but honestly I can use Blues just fine too. Considering the price is much lower I will not nitpick as much. For $307 I want what I want. As mentioned it is not solid CNC but folded so probably weaker than a Filco,Lepold. It boils down to if you guys think those boards are as solid I guess. Plus the Deck is serviceable for a very long time so long as one knows what they are doing. At the time TG3 even encouraged people to work on it themselves. If I end up just staying with what I have I just need to declick a key I replaced. Or just leave it since it is just the Alt key. No big deal but I am fairly Anal.

I appreciate all the help Guy's but at this juncture I do not know where I stand. It depends on if the Filco,Leopold are the tank he Deck is. Say so and I suppose I will pull the trigger. The Deck has been Ideal but I am tired of servicing it every few weeks now. I do have 5 of them but often used for parts. Filco and Lepold look very nice nonetheless so might as well....... I was just wondering which you Guy's would pick of the Two? I did not even check if they have PBT caps which is a must for me and even though the Uniqey is GMK I want PBT. At least I can get a set. The Deck is a non standard layout so nothing fits it. Oh, are these boards Cherry on the modifiers or do they have stabilizers? Sorry this has become such a big deal but I rest assured  I am amongst the right crowd Thanks

[Rayoui]

Okay, now I am stalling here. the Uniqey has Media keys and locks whiich I do not want. The Filco and Leopold AFAIK are not available with very heavy switches. Plus I am not sure those boards are actually better than the Deck. The deck is PCB mounted full board and no flex unless you are intent on snapping the thing. Which you may not even be able to do with your hands unless you are MR. Universe. It does have about 20+ screws. It is a PBT case. So perhaps those are the reasons 20 years later there is no creak or flex for that matter. It is extremely solid at about 11 pounds. I know it says somewhere 5.5 pounds or something but I have weighed it. The cable is replaceable but you have to open the case, then build a cable. At least if Kitty chews it not the end of it. I now agree with all of you about the Uniqey other than what I mentioned turns me off. For $307 USD plus customs I am going to nitpick. You can get a RealForce for about $200. The Deck was originally $300 as well. I am just tired of solder joints failing and having to open the 20+ screws but they are after 20 years old. However Model F/M does not have that issue so makes me wonder. Also the controller is complicated. If something serious goes wrong I plan to spend 2-3 days troubleshooting. I am very happy with the flat profile and Clears. Even with the lack of a plate they are plenty heavy. I still bottom them out! So it would honestly be Filco or Leopold for a new board I suppose. I do not know if they are built like the Deck and I cannot get the switches I want but honestly I can use Blues just fine too. Considering the price is much lower I will not nitpick as much. For $307 I want what I want. As mentioned it is not solid CNC but folded so probably weaker than a Filco,Lepold. It boils down to if you guys think those boards are as solid I guess. Plus the Deck is serviceable for a very long time so long as one knows what they are doing. At the time TG3 even encouraged people to work on it themselves. If I end up just staying with what I have I just need to declick a key I replaced. Or just leave it since it is just the Alt key. No big deal but I am fairly Anal.

I appreciate all the help Guy's but at this juncture I do not know where I stand. It depends on if the Filco,Leopold are the tank he Deck is. Say so and I suppose I will pull the trigger. The Deck has been Ideal but I am tired of servicing it every few weeks now. I do have 5 of them but often used for parts. Filco and Lepold look very nice nonetheless so might as well....... I was just wondering which you Guy's would pick of the Two? I did not even check if they have PBT caps which is a must for me and even though the Uniqey is GMK I want PBT. At least I can get a set. The Deck is a non standard layout so nothing fits it. Oh, are these boards Cherry on the modifiers or do they have stabilizers? Sorry this has become such a big deal but I rest assured  I am amongst the right crowd Thanks

Both the Filco and Leopold have ABS cases but the plates give them quite a bit of weight and rigidity. The Filco has Costar stabilizers and the Leopold has Cherry stabilizers. The Leopold is available with 1.5mm thick PBT keycaps.

It sounds like you basically just want a clone of the Deck board, but I think you are chasing a unicorn. If you like the Deck that much, it might be worth it to just open it up one last time and spend an hour or two desoldering and resoldering all the switches. Then you won't have to worry about any bad solder joints and you will have the exact board you want.

[typo]

Why lock the thread? you know Ray you are actually right. I just can't do it myself. I have people that can. It will probably cost me a bill but I don't mind. It does not have a plate but it is the most solid board I have used. I would not mind to get the Leopold. When I found out he Uniqey is not CNC milled and has Media/lock keys I kind of questioned $307. I have no problem buying the Leopold. I imagine I will right now. Since seriously The price of the Deck plus 20 years old and give someone $100+ to do that work. I do not need a PBT case and I like the looks of the Leopold. So I guess that is it. I will get the PBT keys. I like Clears but I am fine with blue,brown red,green whatever. For some reason I prefer any of them To RealForce Switches. I know that is unusual but just a preference really. I don't have anything against the Uniqey It is just not exactly what I want and expensive. The Leopold is honestly more to my liking. I am sure it is a far cry from the likes of Razer,Logitech Etc. Well, I will go buy one. Just want something new. I have 5 of the Decks and I can always get one rebuilt but right now I would like to try something different. I have ones that work but they tend to quit without notice. I guess certain solder weakens over time. That's it. Made up my mind and way below what I was willing to spend. The interesting is I never knew Leopold was a good board. Now I do. Thanks

[Entropia]

Leopolds have 1.5 mm thick PBT keycaps with almost no texture on them. They use Cherry style stabilizers, but clipped for better feel. Their keycaps generally have front printed legends (on the front side of the keycaps), so that could be a problem for you if you are not a touch typist. Leopolds' cases are made of thick textured plastic with a flawless finish and they do not creak or flex at all. They are on the heavy side and the rubber feet prevent the keyboard from sliding at all. They also feature detachable cables. Best of all: there's a model with 1800 form factor (best ever!)

[typo]

Pad printed. The deck does not even use stabilizers. it has "Dummy" switches on the sides of those keys and space bar. It was one of a kind I guess. Count my blessings while a few work fine and then get one rebuilt. Right back to where I started. I am really sorry I could not make up my mind. Honestly Ducky checks all the boxes but the quality is a little below what I expect. That is just IMO, of course. Again I apologize that I cannot make up my mind. I will keep looking nonetheless. It is inevitable that one day they will al have quit on me. The Decks I mean. There are a few Koreans I would take for $2,000 but not to even be had. Oh well. I was serious about this but nothing is really to my liking. I mean nothing I can actually get. I honestly did not mean to waste everyone's time. I will have to settle for something but have not made up my mind at the moment. If anyone wants to throw anything else out there, fel free to do so. For now I guess there is not much more about this. It does not exist apparently. I do apologize that I could not choose at the moment but eventually I will probably have no choice.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

"" it has "Dummy" switches on the sides of those keys and space bar.""

You sure those weren't Cherry stabs? As they tend to just look like "Dummy Switches" from the top of the PCB unless you look under the PCB.

Also if by pad printed you mean the Leopold caps they are front printed which is why they aren't Dyesub or Doubleshot so they won't ever wear out being front printed.  That said looking at mine in person I'm fairly certain they are lasered on as I see no evidence of pad printing in the slightest.

[SpAmRaY]

That's the thing with the front printed Leopold caps you don't have to worry about the legends, they're there if you need to see them but they'll never fade.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Rayoui]

The deck does not even use stabilizers. it has "Dummy" switches on the sides of those keys and space bar.

Those are not "dummy switches." The Deck Legend uses Cherry stabilizers, just like the Leopold.

[typo]

Ordered a Leopold. I did not know they were in front so you would not touch them. Obviously made for the advanced typist. Which, i can touch type no problem. I cannot do the WPM I used to but I was very good by any means so slowed way down due to my illness it is not too bad. The deck, on the sides the stems do travel with a spring just like a switch. I thought those were Dummy switches but I guess the proper term is Cherry stabilizers. I much prefer them to a metal bar on cheap boards. I do not know that is called either so please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area. I am sorry I drove you Guy's nuts but after all got the Leopold. The Uniqey just did not look worth $307 plus customs and shipping is over $400USD. That is getting into a Korean honestly. If I lived in the EU perhaps but I do not see it as being vastly better. Of course I do not know having not used one. The Leopold shall suffice I am sure. I mean it is not exactly a Razer or something. I expect the case and caps to be as good as RealForce which is fine with me other than I prefer almost any Cherry. That is just a preference and an odd one at that, I know.....Thanks Guy's!

[Entropia]

Wise choice. Which model and switches did you choose? Don't worry about the case and caps. Their quality is unmatched in terms of material quality and finishes compared to any other keyboard on the market.

[typo]

FC900R Blue switches. I really like the "blank" caps. With PBT should hold up good. I am skeptical being only $119 but I shall see. I prefer a full board. I know most of you prefer 40% or 60%. It will be interesting if this is as robust as the Deck's which are Tanks. If I am not satisfied I will have someone go through one of the Deck's and be done. I am not concerned about losing $119. The $400+ total on the Uniqey I would be concerned about. It does look nice but it is "fooling" as it is not CNC, just folded. Shall see shortly.

[SBJ]

How are you liking the blue switches?
I find that what I was told was true, they're great for gaming, especially extended gaming.
I don't game more than a few hours at a time so fatigue is not a problem for me, but I could imagine it would be for someone who uses it a lot.

What is your general usage with the keyboard? Gaming or typing?

[LiquidEvilGaming]

FC900R Blue switches. I really like the "blank" caps. With PBT should hold up good. I am skeptical being only $119 but I shall see. I prefer a full board. I know most of you prefer 40% or 60%. It will be interesting if this is as robust as the Deck's which are Tanks. If I am not satisfied I will have someone go through one of the Deck's and be done. I am not concerned about losing $119. The $400+ total on the Uniqey I would be concerned about. It does look nice but it is "fooling" as it is not CNC, just folded. Shall see shortly.

Owned and reviewed a Deck Francium Pro

Vastly prefer my Leopold 750R,  not only do I think the entire board feels more premium, but the actual typing feel due to the installed dampening mat just feels and sounds vastly better IMO.  As it stands right now Leopold makes my favorite Stock Cherry board i have used/owned or reviewed and that's quite a few at this point.  Even as well made as the Realforce felt when I had that I still prefer the Leopold even to that thus far.

I'll be quite curious to hear your own thoughts and opinions however.

Cheers

[davkol]

Isn't Francium Pro from the new, much cheaper-built product line?

[Findecanor]

Leopolds have 1.5 mm thick PBT keycaps with almost no texture on them.

BTW. Separate sets of these are available on eBay for less than many other sets.
Out of the types I have tested, Leopolds are my favourite .. except for the printing. (I got blanks) The keys are just as thick as other PBT keycaps in Cherry profile.

[jcoffin1981]

Leopolds have 1.5 mm thick PBT keycaps with almost no texture on them.

BTW. Separate sets of these are available on eBay for less than many other sets.
Out of the types I have tested, Leopolds are my favourite .. except for the printing. (I got blanks) The keys are just as thick as other PBT keycaps in Cherry profile.

Oh yeah, I will testify to this.  They are available for about $40 with $10 shipping (from Korea if I recall).  I purchased a set of blanks which are great.  My FC660 also has the same caps with top printing.  I don't know the printing type, but these legends will never wear off.  Worth every penny.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Isn't Francium Pro from the new, much cheaper-built product line?

AFAIK it's actually one of their better ones at moment, the Francium non pro uses vastly inferior keycaps (And I think a cheaper case).  As of moment they only offer to my knowledge the Francium,Francium Pro,Hassium,Hassium pro,and the Deck 82 exclusively in MX Blacks.


Now if they offered other products before that it was before i became familiar with the brand.  But as of the moment that is their entire product lineup under the Deck brand.

[Elrick]

I mean the highest build quality, not features Etc.
Must have PBT/Pom caps Double Shot or Dyesub,Thick. Spacebar can be ABS but prefer PBT/POM. Case can be anything that is sturdy and does not flex.
Plate or PCB is fine.
The heaviest Tactile non clicky possible.
No Korean Customs. Something I can order and have shipped promptly. Unless there is something on the horizon. Or someone has a Korean ready to ship.

Sorry, on your quoted needs, will ONLY be met by a custom Korean creation.  Looking at anything less would be a waste of time and money on every level.

Being here on Geekhack you do know that your only other option is buying second hand off the For Sale section and put up with some dodgy keyboard, from a stranger and pray it isn't stuffed or damaged in any way.

Word of advice here, NO such thing as getting a brilliant keyboard IMMEDIATELY without any fuss or trouble.  GREAT things will always take time to receive,  just take a look at Ellipse's fine Model-F creation.

I know you're probably young and impatient but later on in life you'll see the reality of things and that includes the waiting aspect, for Quality built keyboards done by artisans.  It won't be sitting on a shelf waiting for you to buy immediately, has never happened to me.  So if you don't want "Made in China" keyboards that would be your only option here, wait for your dream keyboard to be built or reduce your list down to a more realistic level and join the crowd here on Geekhack Central.

[Hyde]

In my experience, Filco and newer Leopolds are some of the best pre-built keyboards I've seen in terms of quality.

As for the people here saying WASD's Code Keyboard is of high quality.. I've seen quite a few of those boards lately where a switch wasn't working or an LED or two wasn't lighting up. One of my friends had to send it back two times before he got one that was in perfect working order.

For any of these keyboards, you're probably going to want to swap out the keycaps.

^ Pretty much this.  The advantage of Leopold is that it come with stock thick PBT so you don't need to change keycaps.  It also has pre-clipped Cherry stabilizers.

As for Filco and WASD V2 they're great keyboards too, but Costar stabilizers don't play well with thick keycaps.  Otherwise they were my favourite choices before. 

[LiquidEvilGaming]

In my experience, Filco and newer Leopolds are some of the best pre-built keyboards I've seen in terms of quality.

As for the people here saying WASD's Code Keyboard is of high quality.. I've seen quite a few of those boards lately where a switch wasn't working or an LED or two wasn't lighting up. One of my friends had to send it back two times before he got one that was in perfect working order.

For any of these keyboards, you're probably going to want to swap out the keycaps.

^ Pretty much this.  The advantage of Leopold is that it come with stock thick PBT so you don't need to change keycaps.  It also has pre-clipped Cherry stabilizers.

As for Filco and WASD V2 they're great keyboards too, but Costar stabilizers don't play well with thick keycaps.  Otherwise they were my favourite choices before. 

It also has the pre built in sound dampening mat which makes it sound much nicer and feel nicer to type on IMO.  Build quality wise it's exceptionally solid for a stock board, is it a CNC case custom board? Of course not.  But far as stock goes it's one of if not the most impressive Stock Cherry Sounding/Feeling boards I have used to date IMO.  I agree with some of the statements above though, if you want anything above the quality level of Leopold,Filco,KUL etc you either need to custom build or get into Korean boards second hand and empty your wallet.

Far as the WASD boards personally i'm not insanely impressed with them, I reviewed the WASD CODE on my channel and I found it did not hold up build wise to KUL or Leopold or Deck.  The case had noticeable flex to it and ping was fairly damn noticeable on the board also.  It's not a bad board per say but personally I would rank it in a different quality level than Leopold,Filco,Deck,KUL.

[typo]

Uh, I am 76 years young. The new Deck's are complete garbage and only marketed in the US by TG3. They do not manufacture them. The old Decl Legend was basically a Korean. I know, because I do in fact own 3 of them. It was probably the best production Cherry based board ever built. By a mile. The Leopold is on it's way but I do not expect it to even come close to the Deck. I hope I am surprised. The only thing I like about Blues is the click. Not much else really. I do not really expect to like a Buck Ten Board but who knows. Throw it in the basement where I currently have an old worn out DAS 1. There are junk Korean's too so only get the reputable ones. Certainly not on Ebay. I will grab any clean Deck Legend's with White Led's andTactile. If you see these under a Bill you will not find anything better less than a Grand IMO. So what if it is 20 years old, So is a Model F. More in fact. Well that is my opinion. I will try the Leopold in hopes I am not soldering 2 hours but I am not expecting much. Hope I am wrong though.

[Lazylewis]

All my boards are very close in terms of build quality. Pok3r, 660c, HHKB, filco are hard to rank ...

The 660c and Filco feel heavy and solid, but that doesn't mean they're better crafted than the paper light HHKB. The pok3r also feels solid but less refined. I'm thinking of picking up a 660m, hows the build quality compared to a filco ? Or is it just the same as the 660c? If it's so good why is it so cheap ?

[Entropia]

I have not put my hands on a Topre Leopold, but I couldn't imagine how my FC990M could be any better. I could inspect it inch by inch in search of any imperfection and not find anything. Sometimes I like to hold it with my hands just to admire how well finished the case and how perfect the assembly has been carried out. It's hard to believe it's made of plastic after all. Maybe the only possible complaint is how the long keys feel in comparison with the rest because of the Cherry stabs, but it's something you forget and forgive very easily. Leopolds with MX switches are excelent boards with reasonable prices. It's a shame people do not consider them premium enough simply because the customers are used to pay more for less.

[dgreekstallion]

Agreed.

[dgreekstallion]

I have not put my hands on a Topre Leopold, but I couldn't imagine how my FC990M could be any better. I could inspect it inch by inch in search of any imperfection and not find anything. Sometimes I like to hold it with my hands just to admire how well finished the case and how perfect the assembly has been carried out. It's hard to believe it's made of plastic after all. Maybe the only possible complaint is how the long keys feel in comparison with the rest because of the Cherry stabs, but it's something you forget and forgive very easily. Leopolds with MX switches are excelent boards with reasonable prices. It's a shame people do not consider them premium enough simply because the customers are used to pay more for less.

I'm typing on my new FC900R. Browns... I am impressed with the build quality, for sure.

I'm not picky about caps but these PBT caps feel really nice. Good grip and general feel while I'm typing. Overall, for $119.00, I am supremely impressed with the value of this board.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

I have not put my hands on a Topre Leopold, but I couldn't imagine how my FC990M could be any better. I could inspect it inch by inch in search of any imperfection and not find anything. Sometimes I like to hold it with my hands just to admire how well finished the case and how perfect the assembly has been carried out. It's hard to believe it's made of plastic after all. Maybe the only possible complaint is how the long keys feel in comparison with the rest because of the Cherry stabs, but it's something you forget and forgive very easily. Leopolds with MX switches are excelent boards with reasonable prices. It's a shame people do not consider them premium enough simply because the customers are used to pay more for less.

I'm typing on my new FC900R. Browns... I am impressed with the build quality, for sure.

I'm not picky about caps but these PBT caps feel really nice. Good grip and general feel while I'm typing. Overall, for $119.00, I am supremely impressed with the value of this board.

Honestly having Bought/reviewed and have some sets sent to me iv'e tried quite a few PBT sets and the Leopold stock ones rank as good as several 50-70 dollar sets I have used.  They really are quite impressive for a stock set.  ENough so I reboxed them and will likely used them on another board since I just put a Cherry Dyesub set onto my Leopold.

[typo]

If this is hat good for $119 then it is the best kept secret. I certainly believe all of you and will soon find out but it is hard to imagine. Why are other boards like that $200-$250+? You would think they would have cornered the market by now with those prices. I hate to admit this but I have spent more on key caps and USB cables. I reserve the right to be amazed. Plus, as I said I do not like Topre switches. Still, as far as quality is concerned perhaps they are comparable. Just diferent type of switch. No one insults an IBM board. Different strokes for different folks but the quality is what impresses me. On that note the RealForce RGB is kind of a shame for $250. Aimed at gamers and they insult them to make lower quality for less money. Well, I think now backlit boards are mainly not good. The Deck was outstanding and a TG3 82 still is......in every cop car in north America. Made in Kenosha Wisconsin. The new Deck's are Chinese and very poor examples. Lower than Razer IMO.I can't wait to get this in One day.

[davkol]

What keyboards are there in the $200-250 area?

I'm completely unaware of any mass-produced (not custom or limited edition), unergonomic, non-gaming keyboards with mechanical-contact switches and price over $200.

Perhaps Cherry MX 6.0…?

[LiquidEvilGaming]

What keyboards are there in the $200-250 area?

I'm completely unaware of any mass-produced (not custom or limited edition), unergonomic, non-gaming keyboards with mechanical-contact switches and price over $200.

Perhaps Cherry MX 6.0…?

Carpe Keyboards JD45 $250

MX 6.0 as you already mentioned

Varmilo VR68M RGB 190-200

Filco Majestouch Convertible 2 FullSize 190-200

Those are the only ones that come to mind at that price or close to it on average (Though they vary a bit)

[davkol]

Isn't JD45 pretty much a custom? From what I understand, it's sold as a kit for $200 or assembled for some extra cash.

Then you have regular high-end keyboards in limited edition or with RGB/wireless slapped at it (Filco, Ducky, Varmilo,…).

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Isn't JD45 pretty much a custom? From what I understand, it's sold as a kit for $200 or assembled for some extra cash.

Then you have regular high-end keyboards in limited edition or with RGB/wireless slapped at it (Filco, Ducky, Varmilo,…).

Iv'e only ever seen the JD45 pre assembled so that's a new one to me (Not saying you are wrong just never seen it)

The others are normal editions not limited.

Several limited editions exist for far more, including some $289 Varmillos.  But I stayed away from listing those as they are in fact limited editions as such.

[davkol]

mechanicalkeyboards.com sell JD45 as both kit and assembled.

If I list the other more expensive keyboards there, it's

• the aforementioned Cherry;
• Varmilo: $290 for limited edition with magnesium-alloy case, $190 for RGB, $170 for non-RGB;
• Filco and Matias: wireless versions of their regular models that are $150 otherwise;
• colorful Filco Majestouch (not sure if it's regular production);
• Ducky Year of Something: that's limited edition of Shine AFAIK;
• Topre [Leopold].

Yeah, I'm not seeing "other boards like [leopold with MX] $200-$250+". There's one and otherwise it's either Topre, or a ca. $150 keyboard with some specific [aesthetic] feature slapped on it.

There's an argument to be made about, say, Das 4 priced at $170 instead of sub-$150, but that's far below the $200 mark. Heck, K-Type, which is ridiculously feature-rich, drops at $200 (or $1 less, but who cares).

[LiquidEvilGaming]

mechanicalkeyboards.com sell JD45 as both kit and assembled.

If I list the other more expensive keyboards there, it's

• the aforementioned Cherry;
• Varmilo: $290 for limited edition with magnesium-alloy case, $190 for RGB, $170 for non-RGB;
• Filco and Matias: wireless versions of their regular models that are $150 otherwise;
• colorful Filco Majestouch (not sure if it's regular production);
• Ducky Year of Something: that's limited edition of Shine AFAIK;
• Topre [Leopold].

Yeah, I'm not seeing "other boards like [leopold with MX] $200-$250+". There's one and otherwise it's either Topre, or a ca. $150 keyboard with some specific [aesthetic] feature slapped on it.

There's an argument to be made about, say, Das 4 priced at $170 instead of sub-$150, but that's far below the $200 mark. Heck, K-Type, which is ridiculously feature-rich, drops at $200 (or $1 less, but who cares).

I wasn't making an argument either way, was just listing some that were in that price range since you so asked.  There are in fact not many however.

[typo]

I actually meant with Topre switches. The Deck Legend hit the market for $299. They could not sell them for ultimately $169. Then lost money on every one and shortly......over. That is history. I think a lot of MX boards might hit like $170? Very few are $250. Very few are like the deck. It was basically a custom board of the highest quality components and then assembled by hand by one person from start to finish. That is why they hoped to sell them for $300 and actually turn a small profit. Carried by TG3, they did not need to make a lot but loosing was of course unacceptable. The world was not ready for it. The Geekhack crowd did not like it and too expensive for the average person. Many people do not like the Two piece caps or flat profile. This came from the TG3 82 cop car board and was done on purpose to be the most robust setup they could figure out. it was not to save money as many have said. it is in fact bullet proof. 20 years later the solder they had is questionable but townships replace an entire cop car every 2 years or so. I hope most of you do not know what goes on in a cop car unless you ride in the drivers seat

Today get the Leopold. I do not expect it to measure up to the old Deck but I honestly hope it does. I personally prefer any Cherry switch to Topre but I kind of do like Blues. It will be interesting being much lighter than the clears. To understand why I like Cherry so much, I do not even want them lubed or any other mods to them. I love the "scrape" as opposed to the "fluid" feel of Topre. I know I am odd. Most people with a Cherry board look forward to a Topre. The RGB is actually worse than a lot of Cherry backlit boards. As someone said backlit is going to take a big hit in quality. I would say the only thing as solid as the old Deck is the Model F but totally different feel. Heavy enough though. Even though I will use Blues. Stay far away from the current Decks. Some of the worst examples. Leopold looks like a true bargain but I will find out for sure later. FedEx goes until 8-9PM. GMT -6 here.

[Rayoui]

Just because something is "solid" or "bulletproof" or "in cop cars" doesn't mean it is comfortable or enjoyable to use.

That's why cruise liners don't look like naval destroyers.

A board doesn't have to be a 10kg behemoth to give you an enjoyable experience.

[Skull_Angel]

The price premium was a bit more acceptable back then because the market was much more niche and material sourcing more scares as well as being made in America. Today, it's a bit different, but out-sourcing production from other countries in large quantities is a huge factor to price and quality depends on manufacturer as well as client demands.

[typo]

I have had it about Six hours. It is good. Built well but of course not a tank like the deck. As mentioned that does not really matter. I like the key caps. I like blues for a change. It is strange my favorites are blue and clear. Totally different. I do like the flat profile though. I know few people do and fewer boards offer it now. Overall it is very nice for the low price. I would say it is like a DAS 3 I have but a couple of steps above in every regard. I still prefer the old Deck's, but seeing as they will become scarce this is absolutely acceptable. It is also strange I prefer Cherry and 100%. Everyone seems to want an HKB Pro 2. I hate it. That is very subjective of course. this must have the new stems I would assume. It does not feel any different to me. Of course I just came from clears but I have older blues I can try. the clears of course you can really feel the plunger action. Almost like a super thick rubber dome. The bump is not even noticeable to me anymore. Blues are nice for a change. I have used them often.

So all-in-all I give the Leopold a thumbs up for the price. In fact it seems to be a steal. A Corsair or Razer are more money and suck compared to this. You Guy's did not steer me wrong! As I said it is not akin to a Battleship as is the old Deck but as mentioned it does not need to be. The quality is very good. In fact excellent. I just would not run it over with a Hummer, which the deck may no doubt survive. Unless you are a Cop or Soldier you do not really ned something that robust honestly. BTW, it is not 10Kg but rather 2.6Kg. Still I would reckon the Leopold is about 1Kg and it is well built nonetheless. It will most certainly serve it's purpose. Typing. If not battle ready. I am plenty happy with it. Well, to ad to my collection. Surprised I did not know this brand as I have known, and owned Filco. Oh, I actually find the Deck flat profile,clears very comfortable but as you might know I am a huge man. Not fat, very tall and built. the blues are interesting all over again.

Thank you everyone.

[SpAmRaY]

Glad you like the leopold.

I first bought a standalone set of the front print leopold pbt caps, then a full size leopold with reds, 2 fc980m's one with silent reds and one with blacks and also a FC980c.

Definitely my current favorite brand.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[typo]

I know this is a stupid question but you like it beter than RealForce? I just ask because it seems everyone is bent on the Topre switches. I just prefer any Cherry switch. Wondering if you are in the same camp since you are an elder here as well. If you need industrial strength obviously look to TG3 or perhaps other specialty boards. I do like he flat profile go figure. However how this Leopold is $120 at retail is beyond me. It is fantastic. I tried old blues and they seem the same. Maybe I did not get the new ones. Or the difference is to small to tell without really concentrating. Blues are much lighter than clears to begin with and pretty much just the opposite thing. Click of course, plus bump you can easily feel and much lighter. I am liking them for a change. I think I made a mistake using the same board exclusively for so long. Most folks here tend to rotate I gather. I might even like Topre switches one day. To me it just feels like a stiffer(55g) and more sensitive rubber dome. yes, I said that! I feel I can say I like Cherry better having multiple Topre,HHKB boards and almost every other type of switch. Even Hall effect. I do not really care for buckling spring either and I know everyone loves IBM too. I am just a Cherry switch guy. Anyways, the Leopold is a very nice board. I like the key caps especially. more or less blank which is nice to get back to after years. Due to illness my WPM and accuracy have suffered but no big deal. Since back in college my WPM was exceptional. I still have no problem touch typing but since I have a Tremor I have to slow down or Accuracy would severely suffer. Even than I am sure you can spot all the mistakes. If I type something Formal, I use Spell check,Grammer check and Reread multiple times. For here I hope you Guy's let me slide.

I would say Leopolds competitor is Filco, perhaps Ducky. Not The likes of Corsair,Razer,Logitech. So compared to my Filco I feel it is better in every respect and less money to boot. It is a very good deal for typing. I do not think it would appeal to Gamers, but HHKB does so who knows. For one thing on Topre switches I can never tell exactly when it is going to activate. That is certainly not an issue with blues!

Some might say Korean is best. Not really IMO and I have Three of them. They are custom, Boutique. You are getting things that you pick to your liking and things that are not mass produced parts. If it was wired well it is fine. It is not beter though IMO. as the name implies it is "Custom". Like a custom suit. Armani is just as good but it is not exactly tailored to your liking and does not offer things that are not available otherwise. So I would not call it "better". As far as off the shelf Typist boards go I think save for the Deck's the Leopold might be the best choice right now. That is subjective of course. You cannot count the Deck because it has not been made in 7 Years and Examples are 20 years old, perhaps having issues. The old ones seem to have solder joints that fail with time. They always did an outstanding solder job, all by hand. I think it was just the specific choice of Solder. I will have one all redone with 30% silver bearing solder. Otherwise they should last another 50 years save for a failed switch here and here. Or failed Led. It was the only "worthy" backlit board to date IMO. The Leopold is something different. Just a good quality Typists board I can gather. My best comparison was to my Das 3 but it is several notches better quality overall and less money too. The deck was not enough for them at the original $300, and by the time it got to $169 they stopped making them. The Government has no problem paying $500 for an 82 in thousands of Cop cars,Ambulances, Fire Etc. That is, and always has been their business. The new Dek's are a joke compared to Leopold. TG3 does not make them it is a different company. TG# secured the rights to market them in the US. The Leopold might be the best Cherry board value right now. I did not feel comfortable with what the Uniqey was for $307USD. I am happy with he Leopold right now.

[SpAmRaY]

I've never been a big user of the realforce boards, I've tried about any normally available option they offer (except the rgb model and factory silenced boards), I just wish the case was more compact and the cable removable. I still have a full sized one and for me silencing them goes a long way.

I don't have an issue with topre in general, I use topre at home currently and cherry at work. I rotate between the HHKB and the FC980C since my home setup doesn't have as much desk space.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[LiquidEvilGaming]

I know this is a stupid question but you like it beter than RealForce? I just ask because it seems everyone is bent on the Topre switches. I just prefer any Cherry switch. Wondering if you are in the same camp since you are an elder here as well. If you need industrial strength obviously look to TG3 or perhaps other specialty boards. I do like he flat profile go figure. However how this Leopold is $120 at retail is beyond me. It is fantastic. I tried old blues and they seem the same. Maybe I did not get the new ones. Or the difference is to small to tell without really concentrating. Blues are much lighter than clears to begin with and pretty much just the opposite thing. Click of course, plus bump you can easily feel and much lighter. I am liking them for a change. I think I made a mistake using the same board exclusively for so long. Most folks here tend to rotate I gather. I might even like Topre switches one day. To me it just feels like a stiffer(55g) and more sensitive rubber dome. yes, I said that! I feel I can say I like Cherry better having multiple Topre,HHKB boards and almost every other type of switch. Even Hall effect. I do not really care for buckling spring either and I know everyone loves IBM too. I am just a Cherry switch guy. Anyways, the Leopold is a very nice board. I like the key caps especially. more or less blank which is nice to get back to after years. Due to illness my WPM and accuracy have suffered but no big deal. Since back in college my WPM was exceptional. I still have no problem touch typing but since I have a Tremor I have to slow down or Accuracy would severely suffer. Even than I am sure you can spot all the mistakes. If I type something Formal, I use Spell check,Grammer check and Reread multiple times. For here I hope you Guy's let me slide.

I would say Leopolds competitor is Filco, perhaps Ducky. Not The likes of Corsair,Razer,Logitech. So compared to my Filco I feel it is better in every respect and less money to boot. It is a very good deal for typing. I do not think it would appeal to Gamers, but HHKB does so who knows. For one thing on Topre switches I can never tell exactly when it is going to activate. That is certainly not an issue with blues!

Some might say Korean is best. Not really IMO and I have Three of them. They are custom, Boutique. You are getting things that you pick to your liking and things that are not mass produced parts. If it was wired well it is fine. It is not beter though IMO. as the name implies it is "Custom". Like a custom suit. Armani is just as good but it is not exactly tailored to your liking and does not offer things that are not available otherwise. So I would not call it "better". As far as off the shelf Typist boards go I think save for the Deck's the Leopold might be the best choice right now. That is subjective of course. You cannot count the Deck because it has not been made in 7 Years and Examples are 20 years old, perhaps having issues. The old ones seem to have solder joints that fail with time. They always did an outstanding solder job, all by hand. I think it was just the specific choice of Solder. I will have one all redone with 30% silver bearing solder. Otherwise they should last another 50 years save for a failed switch here and here. Or failed Led. It was the only "worthy" backlit board to date IMO. The Leopold is something different. Just a good quality Typists board I can gather. My best comparison was to my Das 3 but it is several notches better quality overall and less money too. The deck was not enough for them at the original $300, and by the time it got to $169 they stopped making them. The Government has no problem paying $500 for an 82 in thousands of Cop cars,Ambulances, Fire Etc. That is, and always has been their business. The new Dek's are a joke compared to Leopold. TG3 does not make them it is a different company. TG# secured the rights to market them in the US. The Leopold might be the best Cherry board value right now. I did not feel comfortable with what the Uniqey was for $307USD. I am happy with he Leopold right now.

While I was not the person you asked figured I would chime in none the same.  Iv'e owned/reviewed the HHKB Pro 2 and realforce 55G on my Youtube channel.  While both were excellent boards in their own rights i preferred the HHKB for one simple reason, the Plate mounted Topre feel far too harsh IMO and this is why I preferred the HHKB for Topre...not for quality or layout or any other reason.  The Topre switches simply IMO felt miles better case mounted rather than plate mounted.

However as of the moment I'd take this leopold with MX reds and Cherry Profile dyesub PBT over either above aforementioned boards.  I'm truly growing to love linear switches over tactile as well which only further played into my decision to move away from Topre and back to Cherry.

[Rayoui]

I prefer modded Cherry switches to Topre, but in stock form I'd go with Topre. Either way, I prefer tactile.

I use an HHKB Type-S at work every day, mostly out of convenience (small, light, quiet). When I come home, I love using a solid custom board with 62g ergo clears.

[yuppie]

I happen to think Leopold makes very solid boards. Excellent quality and weight. Never had a problem.

[typo]

Strange, I could not find this in the forum but maybe my old eyes. I had to use search.
I am in the right place. Cherry folks! I just do not like Topre switches, plate mounted or otherwise. I wouldn't fault myself for that. I like modified Clears as well but not Ergo. To me it is the finest key in history thus far. Blues are nice too but completely different.  I like the Blues for a change them go back to Clears.

The Leopold is great quality over all and so is Topre,HHKB for that matter. The Leopold is a steal. A Corsair junk is more than that. For $120 I do not feel married to it. I am surprised that is all it costs. Like take the new Deck's(that have nothing to do with TG3) You can easily twist the thing like a pretzel, further and it snaps. Stay away from the Topre RGB as well. It was a "cheapened" offering to gamers. The switches are not like Topre's and the case is rubbish. For $260 that is sad. When The Leopold shows they can make quality for about a hundred bucks.

I figure I will use this a while. I will have a Tech here redo an entire Deck board, have Five. With Modded Clears and ultimately go back to that. I cannot escape it. There is no off the shelf board like the old Deck now, let alone backlit. For some reason it seems currently no one puts any effort into backlit boards. Even including the Topre RGB, they are all just garbage. At least a RealForce,HHKB is quality made. Even though I do not dig the switches. I know that is a minority but I bet you can find at least 50 people on here that prefer some Cherry switch. Of course that is not saying much!

I just feel good about the old Deck's. they are pretty much what I would have a Korean Guy build if he gave me a blank slate. Not to say that the Leopold is not fine as well. It is just not where the old Deck is. I know it was said you do not need 10KG monster but it is more than that. I have never felt a PCB mounted like it. Nice too since I can open the switches/ Nonetheless, the Leopold is fine in it's own right and I am sure would please many people. Myself included. I was very impressed, even if it was $175 but alas they are simply giving them away.

I would suggest to any kid that is Typing, Not Gaming. Instead of go to Best Buy. Do themselves a favor and get the Leopold.
I think for one thing it says a lot that Topre trusts them.

[typo]

Well, all said and done..... I vastly prefer the Deck with Clears. That is a big IMO, and a big YNNV. What I like is first of all the clears with grey springs. Then the solidity of this thing I do not think has been repeated anywhere. I feel it makes the overall typing experience. The Leopold is well built but this very may well be stronger than a Korean CNC case. Plus it is the way the PCB it attached to the case with no screws. Somehow it lends incredible rigidity to the PCB. It is far more solid than anything with a plate IMO. You would not expect a PCBB to feel like this I have a feeling in a twisting contest the Leopold would snap and the Deck would be unscathed. For that mater, you cannot even twist it and I bench 3x my weight. It was just my favorite board ever and it is inevitable that I would come riht back to it. One, I treated very poorly drinking gallons of Coke. It phased it none. The only issue is in that era apparently the solder they used. 20 years later some solder joints wil randomly disconnect. I can't really say cold joints as they look very good. Must have been the compound. That is what prompted me to start looking. To no avail. Since then, one has been completely re-soldered with Pure silver solder.  I know most people would not want such a stiff switch but the clears with grey springs is the best feel on a super solid board to me. I guess I like punishment. It feels the best to me though. a stock Cherry or a Topre cannot even come close to this weight. Blues, I like the click but just feel like mush to me. Plus as far as backlighting, no boards today light as well. The keys are a very thick PBT top which is what your fingers touch. Reverse Dyesubed and then a ABS "skirt" is plastic welded to the top to make them look normal and to channel the light. One thing I would like to say is I think RGB is stupid but I guess gamers dig it. For me Chalk weight and their Led's were a fantastic color. Plus they run them at lower than normal forward voltage. On setting one they should last 45+ years. I have extras. These are serviceable for life. TG3 even encouraged people to work on them themselves. At this point I am no longer looking for anything because they just do not measure up after this. Well, do you think I really like the Deck Legend?

[typo]

The Deck Legend actually has the keys on a steel plate. Not Aluminum as most keyboards. I thought the switches were on the PCB but I realized I was incorrect. The thing is a tank. Going so far to use steel over the usual Aluminum. Try twisting one of hese. Yes, I am a fanboy but you cannot dispute the robustness. When they said "The last keyboard you will ever need", unless you just want something else this most certainly holds true.

[Leslieann]

The Deck Legend actually has the keys on a steel plate. Not Aluminum as most keyboards. I thought the switches were on the PCB but I realized I was incorrect. The thing is a tank. Going so far to use steel over the usual Aluminum. Try twisting one of hese. Yes, I am a fanboy but you cannot dispute the robustness. When they said "The last keyboard you will ever need", unless you just want something else this most certainly holds true.

Typically only exposed plate keyboards are using aluminum (Magicforce, Ajazz, etc...), anything encased like a Filco uses steel. Some, like the Filco, even have bent edges to make it even more stiff.

[typo]

It is just over the pcb. All the corners are bent. However, there are a number of large areas cut out of it for access to resistors and other components. All of the switches have the plate under them. At the force it would take to actually twist the board any it would probably snap. The Filco and Leopold are fine too. Just I think not quite this robust with the entire PBT case. The PCB is not screed to the case. It tightly snaps in place with standoffs. That with the key design which many people dislike makes for a very solid board. Of course one day the Led's will wear out. They claim 22.3 years on high and I use he lowest. The only issue has been with the solder they used back then. The truth is with the two piece keys and flat profile many people do not care for it. I just can't get away from it.

There were three revisions. A through hole with a daughterboard for he ps/2 usb controller, a through hole with the controller on the pcb, a smd pcb. Apparently they are functionally all the same. Although it would seem to me production had progressed. I do prefer through hole electronics. Older.

The only other thing I like is the uniform height,55g RealForce. Go figure. For Cherry boards the Deck is it for me. Clears with Grey springs, lubed. Luckily I have 5 of them.
I don't mean to be a jerk it is just my preference, YMMV. I just got a Leopold and went right back to the Deck. For one thing you are not going to get keys as heavy as mine on any current Cherry based board. Of course another thing most people would hate.

[SBJ]

Now if only you could custom order Filco's.

[typo]

I did not know you could do that?

[Leslieann]

There are places selling customized Filcos, however, it's not difficult to do yourself and there are PLENTY of mods for Filcos (which fit a variety of others as well).

[jcoffin1981]

I have been extremely impressed with the Leopold FC660M.  It's about as quiet as a mechanical keyboard can be and the feel and build quality are great.  I own about 10 keyboards and this is pretty much my daily go-to.  I don't know if spending more is going to help you, but the board cost about $115 dollars.  I could care less for backlighting and other features, but this is pretty much my "endgame."  I experimenting with lubrication, but the switches are super smooth as is.

[typo]

I just got a Leopold. These Guy's talked me into it. Enablers. I went right back to one of my customized Deck Legends. Mind you, in case you did not notice the new Deck's suck and are not even made by TG3. I don't know if you felt my board if you would like it. The actuation force is about 120g. That is not a "Typo". The Leopold is simply not as solid and I actually like the flat profile(DCS). TG3 made the caps though and they are bomb proof.The DEck weighs almost 2 pounds more than the Leopold. For current boards it is a good choice though.

[jcoffin1981]

I just got a Leopold. These Guy's talked me into it. Enablers. I went right back to one of my customized Deck Legends. Mind you, in case you did not notice the new Deck's suck and are not even made by TG3. I don't know if you felt my board if you would like it. The actuation force is about 120g. That is not a "Typo". The Leopold is simply not as solid and I actually like the flat profile(DCS). TG3 made the caps though and they are bomb proof.The DEck weighs almost 2 pounds more than the Leopold. For current boards it is a good choice though.

I found cherry clears too heavy for me, so I could not use a switch that is 120g, or gf, or cn, whatever the right label is. 
Unfortunately this is all very subjective and even if a board is endorsed by 50 percent of the community, YOU have to like it or it's useless.  I'm lubing my switches and want to experiment with a spring that is slightlyheavier, but it may not be worth the labor.

[typo]

Completely agree.

[dante]

Agreed.  Got into MX Clears and kept trying to convince myself they were so awesome because everyone else said so.

They weren't bad per say but my typing speed dropped around 20wpm.  Once I went back to Browns I felt like I was on vacation.

[jcoffin1981]

In my experience, Filco and newer Leopolds are some of the best pre-built keyboards I've seen in terms of quality.

As for the people here saying WASD's Code Keyboard is of high quality.. I've seen quite a few of those boards lately where a switch wasn't working or an LED or two wasn't lighting up. One of my friends had to send it back two times before he got one that was in perfect working order.

For any of these keyboards, you're probably going to want to swap out the keycaps.

^ Pretty much this.  The advantage of Leopold is that it come with stock thick PBT so you don't need to change keycaps.  It also has pre-clipped Cherry stabilizers.

Is this right, the stabilizers are modified?  I haven't noticed and will have to look.  What is the advantage of this?

[jnav]

My vote is Leopold. They're solid.

[typo]

Yeah I got one! unfortunately now they just announced Double shot PBT. Should have waited.

Clear with Grey spring and friction modifier is the absolute best to me. My WPM is very high but that is not my concern. I ant to enjoy typing. Since I have to do it a lot. I code.
Many people would think that is way too heavy. First, the friction modifier makes for something entirely different and Second I am a huge man. Not fat. So if you figure each hand weighs 10+ pounds then you understand me at least. I would not recommend Clears to most people let alone with Grey springs in them. I would tell most people start with Brown or Blue.

[jcoffin1981]

I don't get how that's a bad thing, unless people (a) enjoy punching walls for fun as well, (b) need the keyboard to be sufficiently different to justify the purchase.

My Filco TKL has an extra thick stainless steel plate inside a Vortex aluminum case, while stiff, it's still not like punching a wall.

I have yet to use a Cherry keyboard without a plate that didn't come across as barely better than a cheap rubber dome keyboard.

I have a Cherry mX 3.0.  I do like the profile of the keycaps, but yes the feel of the board was not much better than a standard Dell.

[klennkellon]

I don't get how that's a bad thing, unless people (a) enjoy punching walls for fun as well, (b) need the keyboard to be sufficiently different to justify the purchase.

My Filco TKL has an extra thick stainless steel plate inside a Vortex aluminum case, while stiff, it's still not like punching a wall.

I have yet to use a Cherry keyboard without a plate that didn't come across as barely better than a cheap rubber dome keyboard.

I have a Cherry mX 3.0.  I do like the profile of the keycaps, but yes the feel of the board was not much better than a standard Dell.

Cherry seems to build their keyboards to only be just "good enough".