Key64 vs. Ergodox?

[bcg]

Hi guys... I need to build an ergonomic keyboard and have been considering either building Ergodox or Key64... was wondering if you could elucidate the advantages of these designs compared to each other... or even just give your opinion on this sort of form factor at all.

It seems like Ergodox is an "evolution" of Key64 so I am wondering if there are improvements or lessons learned from an ergonomic standpoint?

I am leaning toward building Key64 as I really don't know if I need the extra keys, and I have small hands so I like the more compact design.  However if Ergodox has technical or ergonomic improvements I may wish to "backport" those to Key64, so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Firebolt1914]

I personally don't think that ergodox is ergonomic, and iirc its name wasn't referencing ergonomics; just the person that made it.

[bcg]

Can you elaborate on why it is not ergonomic?  http://ergodox.org/ says:

ErgoDox: Split Ergonomic Keyboard

[vvp]

I think ergodox is ergonomic compared to the traditional keyboards.
It is just not as ergonomic as other notable proposals on this board:

• jacobolus' fixes to ergodox: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62848.0
• Oobly's design: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.0
• my Katy keyboard: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61323.0
• or the stock Kinesis Advantage or Maltron keyboards
• ...

[davkol]

First and foremost, both keyboards are fully split and compact. But so is Matias Ergo Pro. The rest is personal preference.

[bcg]

Definitely a nice design on your keyboard.  Of the ones that you posted I would probably like yours the best but I don't have easy access to a 3D printer.

Stock keyboards are not my preference as they are not usually customizable enough for me without hacking anyhow... so I'd prefer to start with a DIY design right out of the gate.

After reading the links you posted it seems like most people complain about the thumb keys on the ergodox... just looking at the shape I could tell that would likely be a problem for me

I think I'm leaning toward doing a simple build of the Key64 and seeing how that goes... I have some complex features that I'd like in software eventually so I will try to upgrade to Teensy 3.1 on that design... was able to port hasu's firmware to Teensy 3.1 so hopefully should be very straightforward.

[hoggy]

There's also the Atreus keyboard. Like the Key64, but smaller.  http://atreus.technomancy.us

[hoggy]

Nearly forgot, czarek has opened an online  shop selling ergodox parts and assembly if you need it. 

http://falbatech.pl/prestashop/index.php

[nesiax]

I haven't seen the Atreus keyboard before but he did the case I always wanted !
On the other side, these are my biased opinions:
You can't go with less keys than the key64 without sacrificing functionality or tweaking your fingers with a lot of combinations, with 63 keys you can do it well, however 63/2 = 31.5 and there is no such 'half' key, and the 64th is the one that perform the magic of turning your keyboard into a selectable layout keyboard and helps you debug the keyboard firmware too while programming.
I *really* like the i2c hack made by Dox at the ergodox for connecting the two halves and I hope in the near future I could setup a new pcb with this idea.
If you are accepting suggestions and will tell you: take a key64 and add the i2c from the dox and set up a case like the atreus keyboard and you are done !
More than 64 keys is a waste of space and it doesn't help, believe me !
If you use to type regular expressions, lisp, haskell or whatever esoteric language that make full use of signs like {[('}])"<>-_$@*%  then the key64 layout is for you, programming at the key64 is a pleasure.

[tp4tissue]

As long as the keyboard can be tented.. it will perform equivalently.


As for some user's claim that the EGDX isn't ergonomic..... well it's a long explanation..

But Ergonomics is NOT as simple as buying something, and plopping it down...


Your body has very complicated angles..

In order to create a keyboard that suits the body..    several things must be in place..


Type surface height.. Type surface angle..   Wrist height..  Keyboard tent angle..  Typing-TECHNIQUE.. Length of fingers (affects layout).


All of those things come into play...  and they're ALL important.. miss any one of those factors, and it drastically changes the interactivity...


The drama that instigated all of this, is primarily due to the fact that the  Proliferation of computer use is a RECENT phenomenon..


The people that would KNOW how to get the most ergonomic experience from their PC are probably not interacting with the general public..  and it's unlikely they'll be in an active teaching role..


Most people simply are not aware of what is required... 



So if ya'll just expect to buy something, and have it solve all your problems..   This will NEVER EVER be the case.. it simply won't happen..