I think Hypersphere rings are overpriced

[meiosis]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

except dental bands feel like trash too

might be the rubber domes

[dgneo]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

except dental bands feel like trash too

might be the rubber domes

0/10 troll

[meiosis]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

except dental bands feel like trash too

might be the rubber domes

0/10 troll

are you having a bad day? It's friday

[dgneo]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

except dental bands feel like trash too

might be the rubber domes

0/10 troll

are you having a bad day? It's friday

not at all, and yes it is friday!

[tp4tissue]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

except dental bands feel like trash too

might be the rubber domes

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Neo.X]

Hypershpere ring is the most expensive stuff I ever purchased!!

[meiosis]

Hypershpere ring is the most expensive stuff I ever purchased!!

I'm more surprised you still browse this forum, you never say anything

[DALExSNAIL]

Hypershpere ring is the most expensive stuff I ever purchased!!

Are you rich?

[klennkellon]

Moral of this story is to never buy Topre and instead waste your money on Alps.

[Fullcream]

Omg. It's so simple. Hyperspheres are way too thick anyway. Most of you are all silencing standard stems. Not longer ones like in the hhkb type s..
So.
You are losing so much travel.
Every now and then I see a few photo albums of people buying hole punches and punching out their own rings. I've been doing this from the start with 0.25mm silicone sheet. The difference is incredible and no noticeable upstroke is lost.

Do not support hypersphere.

[DALExSNAIL]

Moral of this story is to never buy Topre and instead waste your money on Alps.

Key word here is "waste"

[iLLucionist]

Criminals is the wrong word, but it is super over priced.

I don't think Hypersphere may be a bad person..

But what he's charging is Fked up..


I'm not angry, but he needs to be stopped.. and we must at least tell the geekhacker novices that this pricing is NOT RIGHT...

Completely agreed. Scarcity / experienced necessity is a ***** to drive prices up. Like basic necessities become ridiculously expensive after a flood or natural disaster in some areas.

This person pumping out those hyperspheres is a greedy son of a *****.

[iLLucionist]

No relationship at all, just think it's real ****ty of you to come in here telling everyone not to support him, just because he's charging more than what a DIY solution would provide.

I paid for a set, and have no regrets at all. Not all of us have the time to hunt down what material would work the best for silencing topre, the size of the rings, the thickness of the rings, the hole puncher to do it, etc etc.

The same reason people pay $900 for the latest Apple/Samsung/LG/insert other phone maker here, even though it costs $25 to make: Convenience and Quality.

Why is it ****ty of me to tell people that the product is overpriced..

Just because it's one seller does not make him less responsible than if a large corporation overcharged its users.


Telecom is robbing people for $60 a month for cellphone service..


Hypersphere is robbing people for $60 for rubber sheet..

There are no real alternatives unless you have the ability to hole punch a sheet of pet yourself. I looked for o-rings that are as thin and to size, i could not find a single one. The key thing is thinness.

I see it similar to the headphones market. Yes a $300 dollar headphone will sound great but will a $600 headphone two times better? No. You start getting less performance to dollar as you move up. Such is the case with the hyperspheres. The chinese ones are 0.8mm thick(the thinness i could find that fit) while hyperspheres are 0.5mm, it comes down to how much is that 0.3mm worth to you.

Yes it was expensive, however there were no alternatives available, in my opinion, if you wanted to only reduce keytravel by 0.5mm. We could also say the same about zealios or even artisan keycaps, but at the end of the day it is what you are okay with.

Law of diminishing returns you mean..

[MandrewDavis]

Moral of this story is to never buy Topre and instead waste your money on Alps.

Key word here is "waste"

FITE ME

[iLLucionist]

Moral of this story is to never buy Topre and instead waste your money on Alps.

Key word here is "waste"

FITE ME

It doesn't matter what you buy... Many of us here have Gear Acquisition Syndrome. We'll keep on buying until we broke. That's how we roll. 1 Topre = 5 cheaper / vintage boards.

[Hyde]

Omg. It's so simple. Hyperspheres are way too thick anyway. Most of you are all silencing standard stems. Not longer ones like in the hhkb type s..
So.
You are losing so much travel.
Every now and then I see a few photo albums of people buying hole punches and punching out their own rings. I've been doing this from the start with 0.25mm silicone sheet. The difference is incredible and no noticeable upstroke is lost.

Do not support hypersphere.

So before I start, I have to say I bought 2 sets from him before and there are no regrets.  It worked out well for what's intended, that being said there are still a few minor drawbacks.

First like Fullcream said, it's still too thick.  You do notice the travel reduction.  BUT it's also the thinnest rings that you can buy (without making it yourself).  So in this sense yes he did corner the market since there are no other options as thin as this.

That being said this works a little bit better on Realforce and NovaTouch (since they have taller keycaps so it mask the reduction in travel a bit), and on FC660C and HHKB it's more noticeable that the travel gets reduced (shorter keycaps).

As for pricing, it's actually been discussed before, the main reasons why the cost they are are:

1.  Research, as some people pointed out he put in his time and effort to test the materials.

2.  Order quantity, since he's only 1 person he's not a multi-million dollar company like Razer so he can't order them in the bulk amount that would lower the price low enough to make the price per unit super cheap.

3.  He has tried to contact massdrop before regarding acquiring a larger order but I forgot why he said that didn't work out (maybe massdrop want to take a bigger cut).

4.  Also how it's build, like people mentioned he layered 2-3 types of different material then had them stamp out the shape.  I think this is a bit more expensive to make than just rubber o-ring.

So while yes it cost quite a bit for what it is, but it still is the cheaper/thinnest options available.

Hopefully one day someone will sell the pre-cut 0.25mm silicon rings then I'll definitely give that a shot. 

[tp4tissue]

Criminals is the wrong word, but it is super over priced.

I don't think Hypersphere may be a bad person..

But what he's charging is Fked up..


I'm not angry, but he needs to be stopped.. and we must at least tell the geekhacker novices that this pricing is NOT RIGHT...

Completely agreed. Scarcity / experienced necessity is a ***** to drive prices up. Like basic necessities become ridiculously expensive after a flood or natural disaster in some areas.

This person pumping out those hyperspheres is a greedy son of a *****.

Harsh, but not untrue.. !!

hahahahahahha

[madhias]

I agree that the pricing is ridiculous, but aren't those rings made by a factory in batches just for people like us except tp4?

Here is more background information, maybe it started here: https://deskthority.net/help-f53/silencing-rings-for-topre-rf-or-hhkb-t10051.html

I was part of that group buy.

[tp4tissue]

I agree that the pricing is ridiculous, but aren't those rings made by a factory in batches just for people like us except tp4?

Here is more background information, maybe it started here: https://deskthority.net/help-f53/silencing-rings-for-topre-rf-or-hhkb-t10051.html

I was part of that group buy.

That thread started in feb 2015..


The price for initial moq might be justifiable,   but not after how many hes sold,  He's clearly not been upfront with the current pricing..


Again.. No one is against the guy making a profit,   but @ $60 a set ,  that is robbery at this point,   he's clearly met moq, and went on to move much larger batches.

The price should be adjusted exponentially,   he's not even lowered the price by much since the beginning,  moq was less than a dollar per ring.


So thousands of rings later,  he still wants nearly a dollar a ring ?  GTFO..  that's greedy..



and as far as research and development..  this isn't some high tech medical lab.. it's a rubber ring on a keyboard..  even taking into account the time hes spent --researching-- if you can call it that,   it still could not possibly justify the current pricing.

[iLLucionist]

I'd say... around 20-25 dollars would be justifiable. It's still expensive, but ok-ish. It gives you something special for your board, something you look forward to having.

That may not include shipping, fine. You have no control over shipping prices anyway as a small enthusiast.

[tp4tissue]

I'd say... around 20-25 dollars would be justifiable. It's still expensive, but ok-ish. It gives you something special for your board, something you look forward to having.

That may not include shipping, fine. You have no control over shipping prices anyway as a small enthusiast.

Just from hyperspheres ebay page he's had around 300 feedback for his rings already.. lets say average person buys 90 rings, that's 27,000 rings sold.


And he's still charging near moq price.. ..

[iLLucionist]

I'd say... around 20-25 dollars would be justifiable. It's still expensive, but ok-ish. It gives you something special for your board, something you look forward to having.

That may not include shipping, fine. You have no control over shipping prices anyway as a small enthusiast.

Just from hyperspheres ebay page he's had around 300 feedback for his rings already.. lets say average person buys 90 rings, that's 27,000 rings sold.


And he's still charging near moq price.. ..

Makes me all worked up inside.. I wanna those rings but not pay price. I CAN'T WIN.

Perhaps just by HHKB Silent.

Also WTF REALFORCE. Just offer 55g silenced 87u. Why either 104 or 45g weighted. What's that bullscheit.

[tp4tissue]

I'd say... around 20-25 dollars would be justifiable. It's still expensive, but ok-ish. It gives you something special for your board, something you look forward to having.

That may not include shipping, fine. You have no control over shipping prices anyway as a small enthusiast.

Just from hyperspheres ebay page he's had around 300 feedback for his rings already.. lets say average person buys 90 rings, that's 27,000 rings sold.


And he's still charging near moq price.. ..

Makes me all worked up inside.. I wanna those rings but not pay price. I CAN'T WIN.

Perhaps just by HHKB Silent.

Also WTF REALFORCE. Just offer 55g silenced 87u. Why either 104 or 45g weighted. What's that bullscheit.

Hahaha,  in this instance, the lesser of two evil is realforce.. because at least with them you get the properly spaced slider.

[kmba]

Yes they're expensive for what they are. But, I suspect at a more amicable price of say $25, it might not be worth his time. The cost of these is a what does it make sense for ME to produce them number. He's not doing community service here. I certainly wouldn't sit around gluing rubber together and punching out thousands of rings for pennies each.. gtfo I'd rather go to the dentist.

And by the way, you can restore travel and lost tactility that results from silencing rings. Ask me if interested

[iLLucionist]

I'd say... around 20-25 dollars would be justifiable. It's still expensive, but ok-ish. It gives you something special for your board, something you look forward to having.

That may not include shipping, fine. You have no control over shipping prices anyway as a small enthusiast.

Just from hyperspheres ebay page he's had around 300 feedback for his rings already.. lets say average person buys 90 rings, that's 27,000 rings sold.


And he's still charging near moq price.. ..

Makes me all worked up inside.. I wanna those rings but not pay price. I CAN'T WIN.

Perhaps just by HHKB Silent.

Also WTF REALFORCE. Just offer 55g silenced 87u. Why either 104 or 45g weighted. What's that bullscheit.

Hahaha,  in this instance, the lesser of two evil is realforce.. because at least with them you get the properly spaced slider.

true dat. though... I recently noticed that all topre spacebars are just a bit off somehow. I dunno... everything supreme and then BOOM there it is... spacebar always feels weird. PBT/ABS... too little padding... i dunno. i always modded spacebar a bit on mah topre boards.

[schoolbus]

And by the way, you can restore travel and lost tactility that results from silencing rings. Ask me if interested

Ok I'll bite, how?

[tp4tissue]

And by the way, you can restore travel and lost tactility that results from silencing rings. Ask me if interested

Ok I'll bite, how?

I think tameone mentioned this in another thread,  if you add flat ring spacers to where the top surface of the board is screwed to the bottom half, this effectively releases all sliders down by the thickness of the spacer used.

So now you've effectively got extra space for the oring mod..

This does not work on all iterations of topre keyboards though.

[kmba]

Yes that's it, and correct it won't work for every board. Use 0.5mm PCB insulating fiber washers on the standoffs to counteract the ~0.5mm hyperspheres. You get back slider travel and remove pre-compression of the domes. What you're essentially doing with this is moving the plate up while everything else stays in the same place as it was before. Works very well on an hhkb. Haven't tried on others because I don't think they need silencing. Just couldn't stand the upstroke noise on my hhkb.

[Polymer]

If I were him I'd milk the **** out of it.

From a pure business perspective, of course you would...but that is also the problem with this community...

We don't act like one...we rip the hell out of each other for a profit.  This is, of course, a generalization..plenty of people on here that try to help out people..but the overall trend is to try to make as much of a profit as possible...

You only have to look at the attempts in the classifieds or even the number of people who have done GBs and taken off with people's money...I'm sure this exists in some other enthusiasts boards..but I haven't seen it on any others yet...

[iLLucionist]

If I were him I'd milk the **** out of it.

From a pure business perspective, of course you would...but that is also the problem with this community...

We don't act like one...we rip the hell out of each other for a profit.  This is, of course, a generalization..plenty of people on here that try to help out people..but the overall trend is to try to make as much of a profit as possible...

You only have to look at the attempts in the classifieds or even the number of people who have done GBs and taken off with people's money...I'm sure this exists in some other enthusiasts boards..but I haven't seen it on any others yet...

Yikes... is it really that bad in classifieds? Makes me afraid ever going there..

[tp4tissue]

Yikes... is it really that bad in classifieds? Makes me afraid ever going there..

Classified prices are off sometimes, but  the Price of these orings are REALLLLY off.

[iLLucionist]

Yikes... is it really that bad in classifieds? Makes me afraid ever going there..

Classified prices are off sometimes, but  the Price of these orings are REALLLLY off.

It's like... the new MacBook Pro. That's around 1500-1800 dollars too expensive.

[tp4tissue]

Yikes... is it really that bad in classifieds? Makes me afraid ever going there..

Classified prices are off sometimes, but  the Price of these orings are REALLLLY off.

It's like... the new MacBook Pro. That's around 1500-1800 dollars too expensive.

Macbook pro at least get you female attention at the library and coffee bars.. tricking them into thinking you're rich.



WTF are these $60 orings going to do..

Limit key travel.. ruin the domes faster by exerting pressure over time..


What a privilege.. !!

[iLLucionist]

Yikes... is it really that bad in classifieds? Makes me afraid ever going there..

Classified prices are off sometimes, but  the Price of these orings are REALLLLY off.

It's like... the new MacBook Pro. That's around 1500-1800 dollars too expensive.

Macbook pro at least get you female attention at the library and coffee bars.. tricking them into thinking you're rich.



WTF are these $60 orings going to do..

Limit key travel.. ruin the domes faster by exerting pressure over time..


What a privilege.. !!

BUTT... BUTT... dat upstroke! MUST... BE... ELIMINATED.

I really find it annoying. It makes it feel... cheap. I like the thock, I hate the upstroke.

[tp4tissue]

BUTT... BUTT... dat upstroke! MUST... BE... ELIMINATED.

I really find it annoying. It makes it feel... cheap. I like the thock, I hate the upstroke.

There are many ways this can be done.

Right off the top of my head..  Why not just tape the slider's vertical chimney,  then spray the flat surface around it with some plasti-dip..


Just do one,  and once you figure out how many coats you need, do the rest..


This method even gives you very good control over the thickness..

[_rubik]

TP protecting the Topre community?!?

All jokes aside, you're doing a service by letting new modders know. +1

[dubious]

oh mah gawd

something is over priced in the mech community

wut will we doooooo   

[iLLucionist]

BUTT... BUTT... dat upstroke! MUST... BE... ELIMINATED.

I really find it annoying. It makes it feel... cheap. I like the thock, I hate the upstroke.

There are many ways this can be done.

Right off the top of my head..  Why not just tape the slider's vertical chimney,  then spray the flat surface around it with some plasti-dip..


Just do one,  and once you figure out how many coats you need, do the rest..


This method even gives you very good control over the thickness..

That's actually a good idea. But I think from switch to switch there will be too much variation.

[tp4tissue]

oh mah gawd

something is over priced in the mech community

wut will we doooooo   

Eat Ramen,  Save Money for the Good stuff..    

Don't blow it on overpriced, misconceived/ poorly engineered o-rings.

[phinix]

If I may just say something - I modded two Novatouches with dental bands.
I spent a lot of time on this, putting those bands on sliders, make sure they all lie down same way, evenly etc

I do not feel any differences between keys, all sound a feels same.

£2 or so for a good mod - I would never spend $40 or so for those pads. It is too expensive for a such a mod, materials, fabrication etc.
I maybe would pay $15 for a set to cover TKL., but still I would need to be convinced that those give better results than dental bands.

[tp4tissue]

If I may just say something - I modded two Novatouches with dental bands.
I spent a lot of time on this, putting those bands on sliders, make sure they all lie down same way, evenly etc

I do not feel any differences between keys, all sound a feels same.

£2 or so for a good mod - I would never spend $40 or so for those pads. It is too expensive for a such a mod, materials, fabrication etc.
I maybe would pay $15 for a set to cover TKL., but still I would need to be convinced that those give better results than dental bands.

Phinix, 

Do you have a digital caliper to measure the height of the stem before and after your modding..   the only way that it'd sound exactly the same is if the band is still below the top of the housing without any contact.

[phinix]

No, don't have one unfortunately.

[dantan]

Gotcha, so when can we expect your run of ultra cheap silencing rings that rival Hypersphere's?

Now you're getting into the area of private wars..  That is not my intention..  Hypersphere can keep his business.. but he really should not be overcharging by so much..

There's making a profit,  and then there's fking people up the ass..

Look at the responses you are getting, and judge the public mood for yourself.

I think you're right, but this is the keyboard world where most people do want to pay ultra high prices for anything that is rare or custom made.

If a keycap is 'rare' or 'custom', even if it cost $0.05 to make, people will pay $100 and get very angry if you challenge that. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes.

Probably in a year someone will find ways to offer the same thing that Hypersphere is offering for 5% of the price. When that happens Hypersphere will find other rare things to sell, and will have no difficulty finding buyers for them.

[tp4tissue]

No, don't have one unfortunately.

try 2 bands, does it still sound the same.

[robbles]

Omg. It's so simple. Hyperspheres are way too thick anyway. Most of you are all silencing standard stems. Not longer ones like in the hhkb type s..
So.
You are losing so much travel.
Every now and then I see a few photo albums of people buying hole punches and punching out their own rings. I've been doing this from the start with 0.25mm silicone sheet. The difference is incredible and no noticeable upstroke is lost.

Do not support hypersphere.

Longer stems do nothing to accommodate for the loss in travel, just the loss in key height. Please stop spreading this lie.

I bought Hypersphere's rings and I've tried dental bands. The rings win by a long shot for both feel and sound. The rings are not priced based on how much they cost to make (pretty much nothing is), but based on competing products in the market. In this case, the competing product is the HHKB Type-S which is priced at $320. Hypersphere's rings are priced to allow you to silent mod your standard HHKB ($225) for a total of ~$265. This saves you around $55 for virtually the same product. Not to mention the Type-S only comes in white, so his rings allow you to essentially turn your black HHKB into a Type-S.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. Almost nothing in this world is priced based on how much it costs to make. The price is set based on variables in the market like supply, demand, and competition. Did TP4 just become "woke" to the perils of capitalism? Is it worth dragging down a longtime trusted member of the community for?

[schoolbus]

Eh, TP is just pointing out capitalism.

It's not like TP is saying anything that isn't already known, there are tons of posts of people being like I want to silence my topre board, ELI5! and then following up with "holy **** those things are expensive". He's just creating discussion around it and pointing out that maybe instead of a 2000% margin, Hypersphere would be happy with a more manageable 1000%.

[robbles]

Eh, TP is just pointing out capitalism.

It's not like TP is saying anything that isn't already known, there are tons of posts of people being like I want to silence my topre board, ELI5! and then following up with "holy **** those things are expensive". He's just creating discussion around it and pointing out that maybe instead of a 2000% margin, Hypersphere would be happy with a more manageable 1000%.

There is big difference between simply pointing something out or creating a discussion, and just plain starting a witch hunt.

[davkol]

What's your point? That both PFU and Hypersphere are greedy? Yes...

[tp4tissue]

Did TP4 just become "woke" to the perils of capitalism? Is it worth dragging down a longtime trusted member of the community for?

Just because he is a member,  does not excuse him from being a greedy pig..  He's also allowed to be said pig,  but we as buyers are also allowed to remark that he's ripping people off.

It does not change the fact that the margin he's making on buyers is so obviously disproportionate to cost..


The purpose of this thread is to inform the novice topre buyers, that buying hypersphere is NOT the best course of action,  EVEN if they're after silencing..


As many other members have pointed out,  from the perspective of the New Buyer desiring silence,  Between S-version and $60 o-rings, it's better in this case to buy the S-version from Topre instead, because they are properly spaced, which preserves travel ontop of better silencing, you also don't have to go through with the labor.


As far as HOW much should he charge,  the current price is too high in the sense that  someone could do alot more with $60 in the keyboard hobby instead of buying these rings,  of which the benefits are dubious.

[tp4tissue]

No, don't have one unfortunately.

You could try just measuring clearance via a splint or a sliver of paper,  just take paper and mark it with a pencil,  and compare the heights before and after the mod with one or two dental bands..