Author Topic: Cpoo  (Read 3592 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Cpoo
« on: Tue, 04 April 2023, 08:17:08 »
How much p0wr is erey1 usn' in 2023?

Tp4 is thinkn' bout gettn' dat 7950x,

buhhhh, it be like does one really need to run 5 vms all at once, what's the point ?



Offline Findecanor

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 04 April 2023, 08:33:42 »
I could c poo too yesterday.
Poo'd fo da 1st tyme in ovr 3 months. It weird
Know rectum works!  ;D
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 April 2023, 08:35:32 by Findecanor »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 04 April 2023, 08:50:40 »
I could c poo too yesterday.
Poo'd fo da 1st tyme in ovr 3 months. It weird
Know rectum works!  ;D

Congratulations. 



Offline Leslieann

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 04 April 2023, 16:09:25 »
Not on a regular basis but I have run 7 VM's at once a few times, 5 VMs multiple times and do occasionally run 2-3 VMs. 
Obviously it's going to depend on what those VMs are doing but in my experience when doing this the biggest bottleneck often turns out to be less the cpu and more the NVME SSD and chipset, specifically the I/O. Not bandwidth, too many requests for data flooding out the bandwidth.

While it depends on use case but If I was doing high load 7 VM's all the time I'd be grabbing as many cores as I could with a cpu/board/chipset with the highest I/O I could find (AMD), with the highest number of NVME drives all of which would have the highest I/O numbers (average bandwidth is fine), all running in raid.


Still rocking my 8700k, it's still a strong performer and I expect it to remain so.
We've long passed a point where CPUs have largely peaked and software is now the major performance hurdle, it just isn't able to take full advantage of more cores. Once it does though, drive I/O will be an issue, though that's actually a much easier fix. So it often doesn't matter if you have 32 cores and a full speed 4th gen NVME, the I/O and software will still hamstring you to older gen/slower performance under most loads.

If I was to upgrade anything it would be my gpu/screens in order to get higher refresh rate before I upgrade my CPU.



Benchmarks and CPU performance today is a massive lie, sure it's faster, but by how much real world, we have two issues colliding today more than ever.
It takes more and more power to go faster, adding 2 cores to 2 existing was a big jump, but adding 2 more cores to 12, not so much. Worse, a LOT of software has trouble using them (especially higher core counts)  so adding a novelty amount isn't really doing much of anything and adding a bunch to a bunch also does very little.  Worse still, we're in a march to zero in more ways than one, we can only reduce trace size so much before it becomes atomic scale so we're nearing an end to faster clock speeds but the same is happening to processing itself. Let's use boot and render times as examples, a 10% reduction in boot is significant if your boot time is 3 minutes or your render time is 5 hours, but if your boot time is 8 seconds and your render time is 20 seconds, a 10% reduction translates to less than a 1 second reduction on boot and 2 seconds on render. Keep in mind, 10% takes a massive bump in power to accomplish today.

Worse still, it's only getting worse as time goes on. We need a dramatic shift in software and hardware to really see any sort of significant increase at this point (except edge use cases). We can't keep adding mhz, and more cores are not going to help if software can't even use them and even if they could it's not linear like mhz because not everything is helped with more cores. Cores are like driving a buss around a race track, you get more people around at one time but it's not going to be fast.

Bottom line, in day to day use (including games), a 16 core or 32 core cpu probably isn't going to be a dramatic upgrade unless you're using a potato from several generations ago.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 04 April 2023, 18:51:39 »
Hrrrm.. might grab one of those intel cache drives for $360..

what monitor are you looking at LLann ?

I suspect with a 7950x won't need to upgrade for a while, for the reason you've expanded on, it's not going to get much faster any time soon.


Offline Leslieann

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 05 April 2023, 00:49:41 »
what monitor are you looking at LLann ?

I suspect with a 7950x won't need to upgrade for a while, for the reason you've expanded on, it's not going to get much faster any time soon.

I haven't even looked at screens.
Monitor shopping is the absolute worst computer part to shop for. I love building and specc'ing computers but monitors almost make me ill. There is so many little important details and manufacturers love to hide them or screw things up, that and the fact that they're just so f'ing expensive. I'm satisfied with the screens I have (which were way too expensive) so I'm in no hurry to replace them.

Chips won't get much faster with this design, period, the X86 chip design is at the endgame.
They'll get faster, but only marginally and it will be less and less, it's diminishing returns from here on out. If you had asked me a few years ago I would have said ARM was the successor, but I kind of doubt it after Microsoft bungled up Windows RT and then Nvidia trying to buy it. I also would have said Microsoft would decide the winner due to games however with the success of the Steam Deck (and SteamOs), I'm not quite so sure anymore about either one. It's possible desktops and laptops will simply just fade off into obscurity, replaced by consoles/SBCs (single board computers), Chromebooks and phones. In which case Intel, AMD, Nvidia and even Microsoft, should all be quaking in their boots.
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Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 05 April 2023, 08:31:38 »
Only thing that is speeding up these chips it the addition of stacked 3D vCache (7950x3D, 7900x3D, & 7700x3D) - in the end most of these are more than the normal user really needs.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 05 April 2023, 08:43:43 »
I haven't even looked at screens.
Monitor shopping is the absolute worst computer part to shop for. I love building and specc'ing computers but monitors almost make me ill. There is so many little important details and manufacturers love to hide them or screw things up, that and the fact that they're just so f'ing expensive. I'm satisfied with the screens I have (which were way too expensive) so I'm in no hurry to replace them.

the best plan is probably to split it up. You can buy 3 or 4 units for different situations.


QD-oled is top choice for "movies only" situations, but blurry for games.

LG oled tvs are good for movies, casual gaming, blurry.

Viewsonic XG-2431 LCD is significantly superior to the majority of monitors for motion clarity (including oled). This is honestly the only esports pr0 choice.

The new 240hz Oleds,  these are equivalent to 360hz non-strobed lcds for motion clarity, but it's still blurry vs the strobed LCDs like xg-2431.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 05 April 2023, 14:23:02 »
the best plan is probably to split it up. You can buy 3 or 4 units for different situations.
No, the best plan is to wait for the industry to figure out what the heck it's doing and let prices fall.  ;)

Only thing that is speeding up these chips it the addition of stacked 3D vCache (7950x3D, 7900x3D, & 7700x3D) - in the end most of these are more than the normal user really needs.
And lots, and lots of power...

I won't be surprised if we have an Intel I9 or maybe even an I7 sucking down 500 watts right out of the box in the very near future, possibly next year. Even custom loop direct die water cooling will have trouble cooling that properly, and by properly I mean not constantly hitting 100c and thermal throttling. And have fun keeping your room cool with that sitting in there along with a 40 series gpu, that's a space heater that doubles as a gaming rig.


Historically, high wattage and uncontrolled heat is a sign they've pretty much maxx'ed out the technology and are basically overclocking it right out of the box just to try and make it hit the required numbers (looking at you Intel), it also almost always ends badly for the manufacturer and customers.  I've been doing this a long time and I can't remember a time where all of them were pushing the limits this hard and where bleeding edge was such a ragged line, usually it's just one company gets a jump on the competition and the loser has to stretch to keep up, this time, they're all doing it. Next year high end, unless something changes is gonna be interesting, and not in a good way if you're buying.


I REALLY try and stay under 400 watts total for the CPU/GPU combo, preferably closer to 300, it's just too much heat in my room/house but even 400 and 500 is becoming difficult to hit with these new systems.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 05 April 2023, 15:47:57 »
Y'all see the 7800x3d review,  OMG the speeeeeed.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 06 April 2023, 09:41:35 »
the best plan is probably to split it up. You can buy 3 or 4 units for different situations.
No, the best plan is to wait for the industry to figure out what the heck it's doing and let prices fall.  ;)

Only thing that is speeding up these chips it the addition of stacked 3D vCache (7950x3D, 7900x3D, & 7700x3D) - in the end most of these are more than the normal user really needs.
And lots, and lots of power...

I won't be surprised if we have an Intel I9 or maybe even an I7 sucking down 500 watts right out of the box in the very near future, possibly next year. Even custom loop direct die water cooling will have trouble cooling that properly, and by properly I mean not constantly hitting 100c and thermal throttling. And have fun keeping your room cool with that sitting in there along with a 40 series gpu, that's a space heater that doubles as a gaming rig.


Historically, high wattage and uncontrolled heat is a sign they've pretty much maxx'ed out the technology and are basically overclocking it right out of the box just to try and make it hit the required numbers (looking at you Intel), it also almost always ends badly for the manufacturer and customers.  I've been doing this a long time and I can't remember a time where all of them were pushing the limits this hard and where bleeding edge was such a ragged line, usually it's just one company gets a jump on the competition and the loser has to stretch to keep up, this time, they're all doing it. Next year high end, unless something changes is gonna be interesting, and not in a good way if you're buying.


I REALLY try and stay under 400 watts total for the CPU/GPU combo, preferably closer to 300, it's just too much heat in my room/house but even 400 and 500 is becoming difficult to hit with these new systems.

Intel has stated they are bringing back their HEDT line-up so I can definitely see that 500+ mark being hit with that.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline CaesarAZealad

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 06 April 2023, 12:42:01 »
I just upgraded to a ryzen 3 3200g and I don't think I'll upgrade again until I have issues. Everything I hear from computer parts people is just *****ing about how the new GPUs are trash, how the new CPUs are trash, how I'm an idiot for having old CPU parts when I should buy new ones.
My computer works, it's plays new vegas, it plays H3VR, and I can look at my commissions on it. What more do I need?
One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen, Fourteen, Fifteen, Sixteen, Seventeen, Eighteen, Nineteen, Twenty... Yeah that seems about right.
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Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 06 April 2023, 12:48:09 »
How much p0wr is erey1 usn' in 2023?

Tp4 is thinkn' bout gettn' dat 7950x,

buhhhh, it be like does one really need to run 5 vms all at once, what's the point ?


Show Image


I don't think you need to run 5 VMs at once as someone who is taking a virtualization course right now

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 06 April 2023, 13:21:20 »
I just upgraded to a ryzen 3 3200g and I don't think I'll upgrade again until I have issues. Everything I hear from computer parts people is just *****ing about how the new GPUs are trash, how the new CPUs are trash, how I'm an idiot for having old CPU parts when I should buy new ones.
My computer works, it's plays new vegas, it plays H3VR, and I can look at my commissions on it. What more do I need?

They say they're trash but also recommend upgrading?
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Offline CaesarAZealad

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 07 April 2023, 09:00:21 »
I just upgraded to a ryzen 3 3200g and I don't think I'll upgrade again until I have issues. Everything I hear from computer parts people is just *****ing about how the new GPUs are trash, how the new CPUs are trash, how I'm an idiot for having old CPU parts when I should buy new ones.
My computer works, it's plays new vegas, it plays H3VR, and I can look at my commissions on it. What more do I need?

They say they're trash but also recommend upgrading?
Yes. I know you think that I'm exaggerating but nah.
One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen, Fourteen, Fifteen, Sixteen, Seventeen, Eighteen, Nineteen, Twenty... Yeah that seems about right.
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Offline PlayBox

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 07 April 2023, 13:08:15 »
honestly one doesn't really need more than a 13600k for most situations. and for a gpu a decent 1440p will do just fine i mean 6700xt/3070 levels for gaming but if you are doing something else then i think something else might be the choice here. but the problem with higher end really id that it gets really hot and power hungry a "good" option for something that requires more power for professional use is for example hedt/server cpus and workstation gpus but these are expensive ah and also come with a hefty power/cooling requirement. imho you don't really need more than a 13600k for most workloads unless in an extreme situation
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Offline CaesarAZealad

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 07 April 2023, 13:18:40 »
and for a gpu a decent 1440p will do just fine i mean 6700xt/3070 levels for gaming

My brother in Christ I have 2 1080p monitors I got out of dumpsters and have never gamed above 1080p in my life. A 1080 ti would be leagues out of my budget, let alone a 3070.
I AM THE RACCOON, FEAR MY DUMPSTER DIVING SKILLS.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 07 April 2023, 13:37:12 »
I'll try to explain
You do need to keep up to a degree. Falling too far behind actually does drag you down and makes it more expensive later, particularly if you tend to buy ultra high end and and then wait till it's dead. As for new ones being trash, yes, as mentioned above, too much heat, lots of compatibility issues, etc.. Bleeding edge is costly and it's rare been as rocky as it's been lately, even mid tier has had issues. And then there's the current prices...

However, in my opinion you're in a pretty good spot so I'm not sure what their problem is, the only thing I can figure is that they feel your chip isn't a great one. It's good, not great, but that's not a bad thing.


Something I noticed since Youtube became such a thing is people thinking they absolutely MUST have the very best system (you really don't). People, particularly young people, see these Youtubers and TikTokers and think everyone is rocking a top end cpu and gpu because it's all they see and that they absolutely must have the same thing or else their going to get a sub par performance. It used to be that to build a system you needed to actually read and learn what you were buying/building and sites focused on practicality and covered a wide range, now all you see is Vloggers with top end components,  I've seen them try and dispel that myth but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I've had people who primarily play Minecraft and such think they need a 4090/32core/64 gig ram system to get a playable game on a 60hz 1080p office screen.

To be fair, this was always been somewhat of a thing, obviously everyone wants the best, but it wasn't as in your face before.
I can't lay blame on vloggers either, if I was being given that stuff I'd use it and low/mid tier stuff really doesn't bring views like the high end but it has manipulated the landscape as a result. I highly doubt the 3090, 4090, let alone the 4090 TI would even exist had it not been for Youtubers and such showing off the Nvidia Titan GPU being used for gaming. To be fair, this was always been somewhat of a ting, everyone wants the best, but it wasn't as in your face before.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 07 April 2023, 18:41:22 »
I think games are entering that uncanny valley where, they look nice, buhhh compared to movie cgi, they still look like european knockoffs.


Offline PlayBox

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Re: Cpoo
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 08 April 2023, 06:09:45 »
I think games are entering that uncanny valley where, they look nice, buhhh compared to movie cgi, they still look like european knockoffs.

Show Image

well movies are prerendered with very precisely made models textures with longer much better rendering process and it takes long to render such scene. its impossible for modern gaming gpus to render something as complex in real time. unless you want to render a 20 years old animated movie or something
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