Green Tea

[tp4tissue]

Is it actually healthy,

Seeeeeeems... like something any company would say about their "addicting" product which happens to contain caffeine,  MEANWHILE, they also fund research to breed tea strains with higher concentrations of caffeine.

[noisyturtle]

Well there is 100s of years of science-based evidence that this 0 calorie drink w/ 1/4 the amount of caffeine of coffee.

If caffeine content is your main concern, stick to Hojicha variety.

[Findecanor]

Brewed green tea contains more caffeine than black tea, and matcha contains more caffeine than brewed green tea or coffee, so beware.
Both coffee and green tea contain various antioxidants. (that is what I use as justification for drinking them anyway)

[butre]

yeah caffeine is super addictive, I say, while sucking down a lucky strike and eating a snack cake full of corn syrup

there's no correlation between tea consumption and shorter lifespan, Japanese people wouldn't be living to 120 if there was.  who cares if it's addictive if it doesn't hurt you

[tp4tissue]

yeah caffeine is super addictive, I say, while sucking down a lucky strike and eating a snack cake full of corn syrup

there's no correlation between tea consumption and shorter lifespan, Japanese people wouldn't be living to 120 if there was.  who cares if it's addictive if it doesn't hurt you

Short take butre,

Tp4 is at the age where he's struggling with the distortion that a life of hedonism creates.

"Ramen" a major culinary disruptor (something else Tp4 has abstained and relapsed from).

Ramen's superior taste is not so harmless, because it greatly wins over the naturally "Bland" desire for healthier options.

If one eat hyperpalatables often enough, chips, fried foods, cake, etc, the brain starts to "need" all food to taste, LIKE THAT.  70% muricans are overweight, 43% super-duper overweight. This is an endemic distortion of life function.

[chyros]

Addiction itself is not necessarily a bad thing. Hot take perhaps, but consider that you're also very addicted to oxygen — and oxygen is actually toxic to you. Tea (and even coffee) aren't very bad addictions to have. The energy boost does transform into a "not energy drain" over time, though.

[Findecanor]

you're also very addicted to oxygen

Really?
Please explain.

Because it reminds me of reasoning that a drug-addict would use to justify their drug use. I have heard something very similar.

[tp4tissue]

Addiction itself is not necessarily a bad thing. Hot take perhaps, but consider that you're also very addicted to oxygen — and oxygen is actually toxic to you. Tea (and even coffee) aren't very bad addictions to have. The energy boost does transform into a "not energy drain" over time, though.

there's a difference between the Distortion effects of dopaminergic compound vs  a physiological need for oxygen.

dopamine disregulation breaks down the Core system (perception) of wants and needs.

[chyros]

you're also very addicted to oxygen

Really?
Please explain.

Because it reminds me of reasoning that a drug-addict would use to justify their drug use. I have heard something very similar.

You're physically and physiologically addicted to it to such a degree that you couldn't hold your breath to starve yourself of it even if you tried to. Your body will go into major revolt when you're lacking it and the need to breathe is one of the most primal instincts you possess. Your body even dedicated part of your brain to make sure you do it subconsciously so that you do it even if you're not thinking of it.

[fohat.digs]

you do it subconsciously

I think you are pushing a reductio ad absurdum argument with this.

It seems to me that the concept of "addiction" has both physical and psychological components, and carries an implicit understanding that the majority of people can generally avoid or escape it altogether. And/or that there is at least the potential to break free from it after it has taken hold.

[tp4tissue]

you're also very addicted to oxygen

Really?
Please explain.

Because it reminds me of reasoning that a drug-addict would use to justify their drug use. I have heard something very similar.

You're physically and physiologically addicted to it to such a degree that you couldn't hold your breath to starve yourself of it even if you tried to. Your body will go into major revolt when you're lacking it and the need to breathe is one of the most primal instincts you possess. Your body even dedicated part of your brain to make sure you do it subconsciously so that you do it even if you're not thinking of it.

This is also not entirely true.

Taken to extremes, like Heroin / Meth / Fent,  the Desire for the high (to the point of OD) exceeds that of LIVING or Breathing.

The distinction is dis-regulation,  Oxygen is part of normal regulation. 

[chyros]

you're also very addicted to oxygen

Really?
Please explain.

Because it reminds me of reasoning that a drug-addict would use to justify their drug use. I have heard something very similar.

You're physically and physiologically addicted to it to such a degree that you couldn't hold your breath to starve yourself of it even if you tried to. Your body will go into major revolt when you're lacking it and the need to breathe is one of the most primal instincts you possess. Your body even dedicated part of your brain to make sure you do it subconsciously so that you do it even if you're not thinking of it.

This is also not entirely true.

Taken to extremes, like Heroin / Meth / Fent,  the Desire for the high (to the point of OD) exceeds that of LIVING or Breathing.

The distinction is dis-regulation,  Oxygen is part of normal regulation. 

you do it subconsciously

I think you are pushing a reductio ad absurdum argument with this.

It seems to me that the concept of "addiction" has both physical and psychological components, and carries an implicit understanding that the majority of people can generally avoid or escape it altogether. And/or that there is at least the potential to break free from it after it has taken hold.

Maybe it's a matter of definition, or semantics. To me, the notion of an addiction is not inherently evil or bad, depending on how much and what kind of impact it has on your life and health.

[tp4tissue]

Maybe it's a matter of definition, or semantics. To me, the notion of an addiction is not inherently evil or bad, depending on how much and what kind of impact it has on your life and health.

Clearly it's a semantics problem if one includes a substance which sustains life as part of "addiction"

We have a hedonic loop in the physical brain,  the dis-regulation of which is addiction. This is apart from simply "having" a hedonic loop.

[chyros]

Maybe it's a matter of definition, or semantics. To me, the notion of an addiction is not inherently evil or bad, depending on how much and what kind of impact it has on your life and health.

Clearly it's a semantics problem if one includes a substance which sustains life as part of "addiction"

Yeah, see, I'd call that an addiction too, just one with extreme dependence.

[noisyturtle]

Explain to me how my 2 cups of coffee in the morning is bad for me. The only info I can find says coffee is healthy for you.

[fohat.digs]

Coffee is generally quite benign for most people.

I recommend Michael Pollan's book This Is Your Mind on Plants.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56015023-this-is-your-mind-on-plants

[tp4tissue]

Explain to me how my 2 cups of coffee in the morning is bad for me. The only info I can find says coffee is healthy for you.

because the dopaminergic effects are as strong as tobacco. large quantities of caffeine distorts your PERSPECTIVE.  it also similarly in the long term produces an addict's brain, with reduced pre-frontal brain activity (long term planning, executive functions). the parts are still there, but they're not running at full power.

very few sources of information that isn't an advertisement or study published by the coffee/ soda industry says caffeine is good for you.

[Sniping]

i'm also really conscious about my caffeine consumption. Green tea is about as far as I go in my normal routine, but I think it's mostly beneficial for me. I'll try to limit myself to only having a can of green tea around twice a week, usually after lunch to beat the food coma. The antioxidants in green tea, the fact that it's zero cals, tastes great, and most importantly it helps break down a fatty meal at lunch, which also reduces food coma. Don't love that it contains caffeine but it's not the worse evil in the world. I'm sure that my poor sleep schedule definitely affects my health more than mild caffeine consumption.

[chyros]

Coffee is generally quite benign for most people.

I recommend Michael Pollan's book This Is Your Mind on Plants.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56015023-this-is-your-mind-on-plants

Somewhat off-topic (as it doesn't include caffeine) but along the same vein, the 2022 miniseries How to Change Your Mind based on another book by Pollan is also quite interesting. 

[fohat.digs]

the 2022 miniseries How to Change Your Mind based on another book by Pollan
 

You should read the whole book. The miniseries left out a lot and changed the tone and focus of the book.