Author Topic: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600  (Read 9138 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline legalize

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
    • Terminals Wiki
Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:10:47 »


Take a look at these pictures of my Nuclear Data terminals.

This brings new meaning to the phrase "dumb terminal".  The housing includes only the high voltage drive electronics for the CRT and no electronics for processing the keyboard or refreshing the display from memory!  The interface to the outside world consists of a parallel ribbon cable sending keyboard data out and a video input for the CRT monitor.  I believe the circuitry that generates the video feed is enclosed somewhere in the peripheral boxes for the ND 812 computer, but I have no documentation and haven't reverse engineered the circuits yet.

I originally purchased just the ND 6600 terminal because damn that vintage green keyboard was cool looking.  I purchased it from The Black Hole and got it home before I realized it was mostly empty.  On my next trip down to the Hole, I picked up the remaining Nuclear Data gear that was there: the ND812 computer, peripherals and 3 ND 600 data entry terminals with nuclear instrumentation module slots.

If anyone has information about what kind of data the is returning (parallel ASCII, serial ASCII?) to save me the trouble of reverse engineering it, that would be awesome.  Any Nuclear Data 812 information in general would also be appreciated!
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 June 2017, 12:06:12 by legalize »

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:59:33 »
;D , did you check it with the Geiger counter first? ;D

Offline legalize

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
    • Terminals Wiki
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 13:49:00 »
Occasionally I would hear the guy tell a customer "that steel scrap is hot" meaning it had some small measurable radiation coming from it; so he knew what, if anything, might have such risks.

For all the stuff I bought (vintage computer gear), you're more likely to get some radiation from a faulty high voltage circuit on the CRT than from the fact that it was surplussed from Los Alamos National Laboratory.

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 18:51:23 »
A lovely old keyboard :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ND6600

  • Posts: 1
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 28 February 2013, 23:35:34 »
Show Image


Take a look at these pictures of my Nuclear Data terminals.

This brings new meaning to the phrase "dumb terminal".  The housing includes only the high voltage drive electronics for the CRT and no electronics for processing the keyboard or refreshing the display from memory!  The interface to the outside world consists of a parallel ribbon cable sending keyboard data out and a video input for the CRT monitor.  I believe the circuitry that generates the video feed is enclosed somewhere in the peripheral boxes for the ND 812 computer, but I have no documentation and haven't reverse engineered the circuits yet.

I originally purchased just the ND 6600 terminal because damn that vintage green keyboard was cool looking.  I purchased it from The Black Hole and got it home before I realized it was mostly empty.  On my next trip down to the Hole, I picked up the remaining Nuclear Data gear that was there: the ND812 computer, peripherals and 3 ND 600 data entry terminals with nuclear instrumentation module slots.

If anyone has information about what kind of data the is returning (parallel ASCII, serial ASCII?) to save me the trouble of reverse engineering it, that would be awesome.  Any Nuclear Data 812 information in general would also be appreciated!

I was Product Support Manager for Nuclear Data in the 1970's-80's.  The ND6600 terminal was, as you have noted, a shell.  It was designed to interface with an ND6600 computer-based multi-channel analyzer system, and was typically used for gamma ray spectroscopy.  The ND6600 mca was a rack mounted system consisting of 2-4 LSI-11 microcomputers.  One LSI-11 ran the custom-designed MIDAS operating system, specifically optimized for control of high-speed, real-time gamma ray detectors.  The other 1, 2, or 3 LSI-11's each ran a single "DAS" (display-and-acquisition) subsystem, which collected and processed the data stream from its dedicated detector.  The LSI's, and other custom display and analog-to-digital conversion hardware, ran on a then-state-of-the-art 6 mHz, parallel 32-bit communication bus (the COMBus).  The system was capable of processing very high speed real-time data.  The ND6600 was capable of running FORTRAN software for data analysis, a real breakthrough for a spectroscopy system at the time.

The ND-812 was a prior generation PDP-8 clone, with a few real-time data tweaks, which powered the ND4400 MCA system, a 1-detector spectroscopy system.  The ND4400 system could be programmed in ND-812 assembler (like PDP-8 assembler -- boy was it a challenge!), in a custom interpretive BASIC-like language called NUTRAN, and eventually in FORTRAN (which didn't work very well).  I used and programmed the ND-4400 while an employee of the University of Michigan, before I joined Nuclear Data.

The ND600's were not data terminals, but rather each was a stand-alone gamma ray spectroscopy system.  Each was powered by an LSI-11.  The ND600 had a dedicated, function-oriented keyboard (not ASCII), and was capable only of collecting and doing fairly basic analysis of spectra.  The ND600 was a design masterpiece, but a market failure.  It was superseded by the ND66 MCA, which used the exact same architecture, but replaced the function keyboard with an ASCII keyboard, and which became the most successful product of its type at least through the end of the 1980's

Hope you find the information useful.

Offline legalize

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
    • Terminals Wiki
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 01 March 2013, 00:25:25 »
I was Product Support Manager for Nuclear Data in the 1970's-80's.  The ND6600 terminal was, as you have noted, a shell.  It was designed to interface with an ND6600 computer-based multi-channel analyzer system, and was typically used for gamma ray spectroscopy.  The ND6600 mca was a rack mounted system consisting of 2-4 LSI-11 microcomputers.  One LSI-11 ran the custom-designed MIDAS operating system, specifically optimized for control of high-speed, real-time gamma ray detectors.  The other 1, 2, or 3 LSI-11's each ran a single "DAS" (display-and-acquisition) subsystem, which collected and processed the data stream from its dedicated detector.  The LSI's, and other custom display and analog-to-digital conversion hardware, ran on a then-state-of-the-art 6 mHz, parallel 32-bit communication bus (the COMBus).  The system was capable of processing very high speed real-time data.  The ND6600 was capable of running FORTRAN software for data analysis, a real breakthrough for a spectroscopy system at the time.

The ND-812 was a prior generation PDP-8 clone, with a few real-time data tweaks, which powered the ND4400 MCA system, a 1-detector spectroscopy system.  The ND4400 system could be programmed in ND-812 assembler (like PDP-8 assembler -- boy was it a challenge!), in a custom interpretive BASIC-like language called NUTRAN, and eventually in FORTRAN (which didn't work very well).  I used and programmed the ND-4400 while an employee of the University of Michigan, before I joined Nuclear Data.

The ND600's were not data terminals, but rather each was a stand-alone gamma ray spectroscopy system.  Each was powered by an LSI-11.  The ND600 had a dedicated, function-oriented keyboard (not ASCII), and was capable only of collecting and doing fairly basic analysis of spectra.  The ND600 was a design masterpiece, but a market failure.  It was superseded by the ND66 MCA, which used the exact same architecture, but replaced the function keyboard with an ASCII keyboard, and which became the most successful product of its type at least through the end of the 1980's

Hope you find the information useful.

Wow, that was great!

All my ND stuff was obtained from The Black Hole, a surplus store in Los Alamos, NM, before they closed the business.  When I got the ND6600 home and realized it was an empty shell, I went back and obtained all the Nuclear Data branded stuff I could find, including some ND branded NIM boards for the ND600.

Since this stuff was laying around The Black Hole for who knows how long, I can't be certain that all the ND boxes I got all go together.  It could be that the peripheral boxes and boards I obtained were for the LSI-11 based system and that the LSI-11 portion was bought by someone else and the stuff was just in the same pile as the ND812 simply because it was all that characteristic "Hulk" green that ND used for their equipment.

From what you say about the ND600s, should I expect to find an LSI-11 board somewhere in the cabinet?  I don't think I disassembled one of these as far as I did for the ND6600 terminal.  I just assumed that it would be similarly empty, although I did learn about the nuclear instrumentation module standard while researching them.

Is there any chance that you or some of your former coworkers might have any printed material (documentation, manuals, brochures, price lists, service information, etc.) for Nuclear Data products laying around in your basement, garage or attic?  It has been really hard finding information on these machines and they are really quite interesting.

My main focus is preserving the history of computer graphics and vertically integrated solutions like those in scientific and engineering applications are an important part of that story, but being such specialized and expensive systems, it is difficult to reconstruct their story as an outsider.

Thanks again for sharing what you know about these machines!

Offline kristopolous

  • Posts: 1
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 11 April 2013, 14:10:05 »
Hi, I have a module for an ND computer.

A memory module ... I can't find any other instance of it on the internet. Anyone take a guess as to the machine it's from?  The stickers are dated 1969.

there is no interface on the teal front, just the ND logo and the words "MEMORY"
« Last Edit: Thu, 11 April 2013, 14:11:58 by kristopolous »

Offline rootwyrm

  • Posts: 829
  • The Hands of Steel
    • My Website!
Re: Nuclear Data ND 6600 and ND 600
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 11 April 2013, 15:39:39 »
Hi, I have a module for an ND computer.

A memory module ... I can't find any other instance of it on the internet. Anyone take a guess as to the machine it's from?  The stickers are dated 1969.

there is no interface on the teal front, just the ND logo and the words "MEMORY"


No idea what machine that's from, but I can tell you what kind of memory that is.. looks like magnetic core memory. So of course, have to be very careful handling it. Barring physical damage, I wouldn't be surprised if it still worked.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.