Author Topic: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013  (Read 7822 times)

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Offline Lanx

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All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« on: Sun, 18 August 2013, 01:16:45 »
I Guess massdrop is doing an ergodox buy, that's great! ask all your questions in this thread, i'm sure current ergodox owners will gladly answer here, i just see the same questions over and over, this way you'll have one big solid thread to "form an opinion" based on the answers of current owners and the mini-ergo community.


Offline alinh

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 02:57:14 »
Hello,

Not really an ErgoDox question, but I keep switching between blues and clears. Don't have experience with either so my question is : which of the two feels nicer for typing? (I know it's subjective, but...)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 03:24:27 »
Hello,

Not really an ErgoDox question, but I keep switching between blues and clears. Don't have experience with either so my question is : which of the two feels nicer for typing? (I know it's subjective, but...)


Blue is the most technically advanced switch.

It is smoother than even the Red and Black linear switches.

The reason is, because of the moving slider inside the mx blue. You actually much less friction through the key press.

When you press on a red/ black, the 2 pegs are already rubbing against the metal leaf at an angle..

on the MX Blue, the only point of friction is straight down, with no torque to either side.

Once the click goes down, again, you do not have to contend with the leaf spring on the stem, only the straight linear motion of the inner peg.


THUS, the smoothest switch is actually the MX Blue and NOT the Red/ Black linears.

Offline Lanx

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 05:24:45 »
clears will be hella more tactile than blues. i have a mixed board with ergo whites and browns, and the whites make the browns (whick are blues with no click) almost feel like reds.

Offline alinh

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 09:48:58 »
Thanks for the comments so far. After reading several comments it seems to me that people have mixed feelings about clears, but blues are mostly appreciated, so chances are that I'll get the blues.

I'd also like to "pimp my keyboard" sometimes in the future (saw the retro keycaps in someone's pic and they're   :eek::thumb:)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 10:38:45 »
Thanks for the comments so far. After reading several comments it seems to me that people have mixed feelings about clears, but blues are mostly appreciated, so chances are that I'll get the blues.

I'd also like to "pimp my keyboard" sometimes in the future (saw the retro keycaps in someone's pic and they're   :eek::thumb:)

you'll get over the pimping soon enough, because that whole thing died with the ergodox.

It comes down to blank caps.

Offline Riplakish

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 11:36:52 »
Speaking of the blank caps, how decent are the ones that can be added to the massdop order?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 12:32:35 »
Speaking of the blank caps, how decent are the ones that can be added to the massdop order?

You have to buy the spherical set no matter what, because of all the 1.5x keys on the side, and the 4-2x keys for the thumb buttons.

as for DSA profile caps, the surface is dramatically smaller than OEM profile / Cherry profile.

Which means MORE vertical movement is necessary when typing, and a greater requirement for "technical precision" on part of the user.

So... in some sense the DSA caps will train you to be more precise, but  OEM/Cherry profile keys will let you be more "relaxed"

Do not get the DCS set, if you plan to use stabilizers on your ergodox.

I found that for the Right hand, the holes are cut such that the stabilizers will not fit under the DCS 2x key set.

the left hand is fine, but not on the right hand.


I consider the stabilizers invaluable, because without them the 2x keys are very grindy..

However it's a complex process to mod them into an ergodox..  so pm me if you need help.

Offline darkfire32

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 15:30:13 »
Is there any place that sells a full set of DCS Ergodox keycaps or do I have to go to SP's page and order them individually?

Offline johnjones

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 17:26:49 »
Does anyone here have any further thoughts on the aluminium option? It seems that in the past it wasn't anodised, but now that no longer seems the case - so would that solve the concerns?

Does the acrylic scratch easily? Show all the dust building up inside the ergodox?

Any thoughts gratefully received - first time prospective ergodox-er here

Offline kurplop

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 18:06:34 »
Welcome to geekhack.

The problems with the original aluminum cases are at least threefold,

1. The aluminum wasn't anodized.

2. The plate tolerances were loose resulting in uneven sides and poor  fitting internal components.

3. The surface was unfinished leaving a rough look and sharp edges.



The problem was a misunderstanding of what to expect. Few were prepared or equipped to properly shape and smooth the aluminum. A kit is a kit and a kit often requires more than just bolting pieces together.

I am happy with the aluminum on mine but it did require many hours to smooth it and give it a satin finish.   http://flic.kr/s/aHsjFazJhh

Having the finish anodized hardens the surface, making it resistant to damage but it doesn't hide any imperfections. So if you need to do and can do further machining or sanding you will remove the hard face.

Massdrop has been attentive in the past. I would strongly urge anyone considering the aluminum top plate to ask Massdrop to provide pictures of the finished product first. After the number of complaints from the first round I'm surprised they didn't already do so. 
« Last Edit: Tue, 20 August 2013, 18:09:49 by kurplop »

Offline johnjones

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 03:10:59 »
Hi Kurplop

Thanks for the message. I asked MD for a picture and this is what they said:

"Mark replied:
Here's one from the comments section:

http://deskthority.net/resources/image/7535"

hmmmmm. Leads me to think a little that they haven't made any alterations? Does the acrylic have the same uneven sides and poor fitting issues?

Offline kurplop

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 05:29:33 »
I don't have an acrylic case but have heard that there hasn't been issues with the fit. Some have noted minor issues with cutting  marks on the sides but it's not to noticeable.

If that picture is representative of the new aluminum plate, it was a waste to bother anodizing it.  If you have the means to clean it up I wouldn't discourage you from buying it, but you will lose the anodization. I like aluminum so I would likely do it but I would have thought they could have gotten it right. Pity.

Offline Larken

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 06:27:22 »
the acrylic probably fitted better than the aluminium.

The cutting marks on the sides were, however, extremely visible. But this doesn't affect the functionality of the ergodox in any case. Having sent acrylic plates on my own for cutting for the ergodox, I'm thinking that the cutter they used aren't very good - those same cut marks didn't show up on the set of plates I cut at polulu (those were smooth, clean edges).

But you do pay for what you get - getting your own cut will cost you thereabouts of about 100+ usd excluding shipping, and not purchasing the case from massdrop grants you a 80 dollar discount (not sure if they're offering the option for caseless purchases in this round). So, there is an additional cost for a slight aesthetic improvement.

I did sand down the acrylic sides to a smooth surface eventually though.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline johnjones

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 07:07:52 »
Thanks for the follow up

I've emailed Massdrop again asking for clarification as to whether they have an up to date picture of the new top plate and if the previous production issues have been sorted out.

So I still don't know which way to go (aluminium top or acrylic!) - at the moment it sounds as if acrylic will be a better choice as I have zero experience with anodisation / working with metal. (Programmer type here)

Offline blueSmoke

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 12:58:29 »
I think this time the metal plates will be somewhat better, as they mentioned that the last guy underpriced the alu plates and so they had to remove the aluminum option. They must have a different vendor now. I am just hoping somebody that knows how to do business the right way, i.e. invest on a good cutting head at 50-100 bucks to get future customer stream of thousands of dollars.

Even then you you still have to work on the alu plates, sanding, side facing and anodizing if you need it.
Model M, Filco Tenkeyless White, Few others, few more others, Noise-hater (ongoing project), blah-blah (to be fillled later...)

Offline nomaded

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:52:31 »
Based on the comments from MD about the aluminum top layer, it's an add-on piece. The order will come with the full acrylic case, and the top layer can be swapped out for the aluminum one.
Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:57:26 »
Based on the comments from MD about the aluminum top layer, it's an add-on piece. The order will come with the full acrylic case, and the top layer can be swapped out for the aluminum one.

I'm interested to see how these turn out.

Offline nomaded

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 15:09:01 »
I'm interested to see how these turn out.

I am too. I think I've convinced my wife that yes, I do need another keyboard. :)
Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline Findecanor

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 23 August 2013, 21:37:13 »
I have a couple of questions to Massdrop:

Does Massdrop have any plans to fix the known bugs in the PCB before making a new batch?
You can't put 1u keys in the outermost columns or connect the Teensy directly to the host via USB.

How does Massdrop come up with the numbers that it writes on the customs declaration forms?
Some people have received under-declared shipments, and some (like me) have received over-declared shipments so they have had to pay more customs fees than necessary.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2013, 21:42:58 by Findecanor »

Offline davkol

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 08:09:53 »
How does Massdrop come up with the numbers that it writes on the customs declaration forms?
Some people have received under-declared shipments, and some (like me) have received over-declared shipments so they have had to pay more customs fees than necessary.

I've no idea how it works in Sweden, but you e-mail them a screenshot of your order/PayPal and that's it (declared value is irrelevant)—here in Czechia.

Offline audukent

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 25 August 2013, 23:20:00 »
Hello,

I'm curious about how to raise your Ergodox.  I've seen some users using 'Kinesis Freestyle V3' and I'm curious if this is easy or even worth it?  Whats the best way to do this?

Amazon Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Ac730-blk-Freestyle-Accessory/dp/B003F8MDPY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1377490657&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Kinesis+Avantage+V3
[LZ-GH - 62g mx greens and 62g mx clears]    [Ducky Shine - mx browns]    [RACE mxMini - mxreds]  [POKER II - mx Blacks]    [KPAD - 62g mx blacks]

Offline johnjones

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 26 August 2013, 17:38:05 »
Random firmware question - does anyone happen to know if it's possible to program the firmware to send chords? i.e command + c so I could have a one button copy?

Cheers

Offline darkfire32

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 26 August 2013, 18:20:26 »
Hello,

I'm curious about how to raise your Ergodox.  I've seen some users using 'Kinesis Freestyle V3' and I'm curious if this is easy or even worth it?  Whats the best way to do this?

Amazon Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Ac730-blk-Freestyle-Accessory/dp/B003F8MDPY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1377490657&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Kinesis+Avantage+V3

Unless you move around a lot, cardboard boxes - free at your local post office.

Offline nomaded

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 29 August 2013, 17:05:19 »
Well, I just jumped on board the August group buy, with the clear switches.

I'm kind of questioning whether I should be ordering the DSA keycaps with the Ergodox. I touch type Dvorak, but I do need to type QWERTY from time to time. I like having the QWERTY labels for the times that I do need to use that layout.

I'm wondering if the WASD keycaps would be compatible. I know if I get one of their 104-key sets, I will be missing some keys. I figured I could also order the rest as blanks. I just need to do some research to figure out what other keys I will need.

Will the WASD keys fit? Thoughts on alternatives?

Thanks.
Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline Jon in PDX

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 30 August 2013, 14:52:37 »
While waiting for my kit, I've put together a layout and now I'm playing with designs for adjusting tent & slope angles. The hardest part so far is making any specific designs because I don't know just how big the thing is. :) Can anyone point me to either an image file copy of Litster's case layout, or to a free program to open the .dxf file with? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out exact bolt spacing, with the idea that I'll get longer bolts for whatever I attach to the bottom of the case. Also, I saw that there was a kit with M3 x 22mm bolts--is what what Massdrop ships?

Many thanks!

Offline darkfire32

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 30 August 2013, 22:22:07 »

Will the WASD keys fit? Thoughts on alternatives?

Thanks.

I've been wondering about this same issue for a while now and nobody has replied back yet. My browsing through the forums could be wrong in case I just read those things wrong but I think the WASD sets would fit. However, it wouldn't have enough modifiers for the ergodox so you would have to get your own. Since the ergodox only has ~80 keys (kit contains 78 switches), you could just save some money and get an 87-key kit then buy the modifiers separately from different sites - SP if you want a really good fit.

Alternatives: 1. The August GB won't get the keyboard until October, confirmed by the MD guys because of their 30-45 day turnaround time. So you can get in on some of the group buys in this forum and get a good kit plus you MIGHT be able to request an ergodox set.

2. SP's site does sell DCS/DSA keycaps.

3. There's a picture in this forum somewhere, but you can get relegendables and print out your own labels and stick them in.

If anyone with an ergodox can confirm if OEM-profile keycaps are able to fit that would be much appreciated.

Offline kurplop

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 31 August 2013, 05:42:18 »
Any keycap that is made to fit a Cherry switch should work. That includes the after market brands as well as harvesting them from any keyboard with Cherry switches. If you use a set from another keyboard you will likely still have to buy additional 1.5x and 2x keycaps from SP or another source.

The DSA style works fine and are more versatile. however in my opinion, the sculpted keycaps are  easier to type on. I found it especially helpful that the two upper thumb keys be taller than the others.

Offline yasuo

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 31 August 2013, 05:45:35 »
Snip
« Last Edit: Sat, 31 August 2013, 06:35:29 by yasuo »
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Offline nomaded

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 31 August 2013, 14:13:48 »
Alternatives: 1. The August GB won't get the keyboard until October, confirmed by the MD guys because of their 30-45 day turnaround time. So you can get in on some of the group buys in this forum and get a good kit plus you MIGHT be able to request an ergodox set.

This alone was enough for me to remove the blank keycaps from my order. I have enough time to do more research and either way for the next group buy, or maybe order a few keycaps from SP and compare them with a sample kit from WASD, or maybe even from maxkeyboard.com.

Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline darkfire32

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 00:41:02 »

This alone was enough for me to remove the blank keycaps from my order. I have enough time to do more research and either way for the next group buy, or maybe order a few keycaps from SP and compare them with a sample kit from WASD, or maybe even from maxkeyboard.com.

Glad I could help. FYI, there is a group buy starting pretty soon for deep blue SA keycaps from SP and they are offering a set of ergodox modifiers. You can check out the DS ABS thread in the interest check forum.

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 01:29:13 »
Thanks to tp4tissue I have seriously started to consider an ErgoDox as my first mechanical keyboard. One of my concerns is the difficulty in building one of these. Aside from the parts included in the order, what else would you need to complete the board? Also, how difficult would assembly be for someone with limited experience in builds Luke this? Another concern for me is how long it would take to get used to the ergo design. As for gaming, would the ErgoDox perform better our similar than other mechanical keyboards? Do you think that this keyboard is an acceptable keyboard for someone's first board?
Keyboards Owned:

Realforce Topre 91 Key JIS Profile - Main
CM Quickfire Rapid Blue Switches
IBM Model M in Industrial Shell

Offline darkfire32

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 02:28:40 »
Thanks to tp4tissue I have seriously started to consider an ErgoDox as my first mechanical keyboard. One of my concerns is the difficulty in building one of these. Aside from the parts included in the order, what else would you need to complete the board? Also, how difficult would assembly be for someone with limited experience in builds Luke this? Another concern for me is how long it would take to get used to the ergo design. As for gaming, would the ErgoDox perform better our similar than other mechanical keyboards? Do you think that this keyboard is an acceptable keyboard for someone's first board?

To answer your questions in order:

To complete the board, you NEED: a soldering iron and solder. Both can be bought at Radioshack for pretty cheap. Go for 60/40 rosin-core solder first, doesn't matter what diameter you get. Actually the smaller one is probably better for this project and its cheaper than everything else. You can also get 60/38/2, with the 2 as in 2% silver, but it does raise the temp you need to melt the solder and that might burn some of the components. Soldering iron, like everything else, you can get a cheap one or an expensive one. Your choice, they do the same thing.
           Some optional suggestions: a sponge, tweezers, gloves, magnifying glass. totally optional, although tweezers are VERY VERY recommended cause the SMDs are small.

How difficult depends on good you are with doing these small things. If you're a klutz and can't thread a needle, consider paying for the assembly. If you're a heart surgeon, you have lots of money and you should just pay for someone to do it.

How long it takes depends on how much you type on a daily basis. Practice makes perfect. I don't think examples are needed for this one.

Gaming: There's a thread on the ergonomics section about this very topic. Refer to that.

First board: Seeing as you typed this post, this is not your first board. This keyboard, like every other keyboard, is an acceptable keyboard. It takes your physical movements and turns it into computer letters through the power of magic. They all do that and they're all fine.

Offline dragonxx21

  • Posts: 471
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 03:40:33 »
To answer your questions in order:

To complete the board, you NEED: a soldering iron and solder. Both can be bought at Radioshack for pretty cheap. Go for 60/40 rosin-core solder first, doesn't matter what diameter you get. Actually the smaller one is probably better for this project and its cheaper than everything else. You can also get 60/38/2, with the 2 as in 2% silver, but it does raise the temp you need to melt the solder and that might burn some of the components. Soldering iron, like everything else, you can get a cheap one or an expensive one. Your choice, they do the same thing.
           Some optional suggestions: a sponge, tweezers, gloves, magnifying glass. totally optional, although tweezers are VERY VERY recommended cause the SMDs are small.

How difficult depends on good you are with doing these small things. If you're a klutz and can't thread a needle, consider paying for the assembly. If you're a heart surgeon, you have lots of money and you should just pay for someone to do it.

How long it takes depends on how much you type on a daily basis. Practice makes perfect. I don't think examples are needed for this one.

Gaming: There's a thread on the ergonomics section about this very topic. Refer to that.

First board: Seeing as you typed this post, this is not your first board. This keyboard, like every other keyboard, is an acceptable keyboard. It takes your physical movements and turns it into computer letters through the power of magic. They all do that and they're all fine.

Thanks a lot for the insight. Aside from the tools you need to actually build the board, from what I understand, you would also need to purchase keycaps separate (or blank ones can be added on), correct?

I'm somewhat used to building model kits (Gunpla fan), so I think I'm pretty average when it comes to assembling things, and the assembly is part of the reason I want to get the board. It feels more worth it if you actually build it yourself, at least that's how I feel.

I will keep an eye out for the gaming thread.

This answer was actually quite amusing. By first board, I meant my first mechanical keyboard. I was just wondering if it would be suitable to go from a rubber dome to an ergo mechanical keyboard, as opposed to a regular mechanical keyboard.

Another question, is it possible to add backlights on the ErgoDox, or would it be too difficult or not possible at all?
Keyboards Owned:

Realforce Topre 91 Key JIS Profile - Main
CM Quickfire Rapid Blue Switches
IBM Model M in Industrial Shell

Offline Larken

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Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 05:40:47 »

Thanks a lot for the insight. Aside from the tools you need to actually build the board, from what I understand, you would also need to purchase keycaps separate (or blank ones can be added on), correct?

I'm somewhat used to building model kits (Gunpla fan), so I think I'm pretty average when it comes to assembling things, and the assembly is part of the reason I want to get the board. It feels more worth it if you actually build it yourself, at least that's how I feel.

I will keep an eye out for the gaming thread.

This answer was actually quite amusing. By first board, I meant my first mechanical keyboard. I was just wondering if it would be suitable to go from a rubber dome to an ergo mechanical keyboard, as opposed to a regular mechanical keyboard.

Another question, is it possible to add backlights on the ErgoDox, or would it be too difficult or not possible at all?



if you're used to building model kits, you should feel right at home, as even though the activity is different, having an eye for detailed work helps. For what it's worth, when I built my ergodox, it was the first time in my entire life that I held a soldering iron. A cheap random one at that, and a tube of solder wire, and a desoldering pump that was a waste of the plastic and spring it was made of. I did however, sit through a few soldering videos on youtube, read thorough several sites and a comic on soldering before I got started.

There were hiccups when I fired it up for the first time, but it wasn't too hard to fix. If there's any issues, most geekhackers would probably be able to help you through it.

As for whether you should be going from a rubber dome to an ergodox - that is a complicated question. Let me answer this in two parts. Going from rubber dome to mechanical imo, is a no brainer. Whether you should go for an ergodox is however, up in the air. You may or may not like the layout, depending on how willing you're to adapt. And for that matter, there's several outcomes,

1: if you do decide to go with the ergodox, there's a good chance you'll never want to use a normal staggered keyboard again. I went cold turkey and switched to it all the way from day 1 of finishing up my build. I'm pretty sure I've been on this board for about 3 months now. I still have several normal boards, but I can't standing typing on one of those for more than five minutes.

2: you decide to go half-half on adapting to the dox; good chance you'd never feel fluent with the matrix layout, and end up selling it away.

3: Or you could go half-half and be able to switch between the two equally; though I find it hard to believe that anyone who had acclimatized himself/herself to the ergodox layout would actually still want to use a staggered layout.

Imo, the matrix layout is a commitment that you have to decide on.

As for gaming; I used to be an avid MMORPG player - spent years on Wow, and prior to that, UO, EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, and several others (the list can get quite long), and other games, including FPS, racing, RPGs etc etc. I can easily tell you that an ergodox during my wow days would have been awesome; all my macros and hotkeys on one hand? Some would say that it would be a huge pain to set up the keys on a custom board, but since when did any half decent player not take the time to set up detail macros for pvp or raiding? It would made rotations so much easier and fluid. Customization of layouts on the ergodox is pretty much relies the same principle - you'd be able to make full use of the ergodox's potential if you're willing to put the time in to make custom layers that you know at your finger tips. Lots of thinking, preparation and adjustment. Otherwise, it's just a normal board with a weird layout.

You should probably read the anandtech review of the keyboard. Although I think it rather obvious that the reviewer doesn't really 'get' the ergodox's full potential, I think its a very fair review of how a regular person would find the massdrop kit. Regular, in this case, being the kind of person who just wants a keyboard that works out of the box, and be naturally fabulous without having to tweak stuff too much. 

http://anandtech.com/show/7245/ergodox-review-an-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard-via-massdrop

Many of his issues mentioned are actually valid - if you're not willing to put in the time and effort to tweak and mod the keyboard further than what came out of the box. But if you're willing to get the board, adapt and modify it to a set up that suits you (i.e. making layouts, adjust, repeat until perfect; find a way to tent the board; make your own TRRS cable if its too short or too long (this particular complaint in the review made me roll my eyes. it was like he was finding things to nitpick about) - then I think you'd love the ergodox. Otherwise, you might want to reconsider getting one.

For LED backlights, can't be done without an extensive mod. If you're not even sure how to put the basic kit together at the moment, I would consider such a thing rather impossible at this time.



| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline Stekke

  • Posts: 1
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 17:00:17 »
To answer your questions in order:

To complete the board, you NEED: a soldering iron and solder. Both can be bought at Radioshack for pretty cheap.

I bought an ergodox from round 3 and assembled it a few days ago but I haven't had the change to try it out extensively.
Just wanted to give a small warning about this. I have a cheap ERSA soldering iron that plugs directly into the wall. It is fine for through-hole components, but I could not solder those SMD doide's. The soldering iron was to hot and the tip to large, there was burned flux all around the pad and the solder joints where anything but good.
So I bought a weller WHS40D and things went much better  :)
I think its also best to stay under 0.7mm for the solder size.

Offline darkfire32

  • Posts: 99
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 17:31:14 »

Thanks a lot for the insight. Aside from the tools you need to actually build the board, from what I understand, you would also need to purchase keycaps separate (or blank ones can be added on), correct?

This answer was actually quite amusing. By first board, I meant my first mechanical keyboard. I was just wondering if it would be suitable to go from a rubber dome to an ergo mechanical keyboard, as opposed to a regular mechanical keyboard.

Another question, is it possible to add backlights on the ErgoDox, or would it be too difficult or not possible at all?

Yes, you are correct. The ergodox package does not come with its own keycaps. You need to supply your own either through the massdrop thingy or through buying it on the forums or some site. I recommend some of the group buys because some of them include the option for an ergodox modifier set. Otherwise, you need to get the alphas as well as custom modifiers. Refer to some of the earlier posts on this thread for more info.

Backlights difficulty depends on what you mean. If you want individual backlights on each key then it will be fairly difficult as the PCB does not actually holes for the backlights. In addition you need to get backlit keycaps to see through the letters. Theres a site, I need to research which one, that sells translucent keycaps. Very good for backlighting, but no legends so you can't tell which key is which. Ruins the point of having backlighting.

I'm personally thinking about getting some leds and attaching them through a wire at the edge of the acrylic baseplate. I'll see if it is possible once I get my ergodox (August GB'er).

Offline neevers1

  • Posts: 14
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 18:46:55 »
I just bought the ergodox from the august groupbuy, and have been looking at the WASD keys, with legends...... They seem to be DSC. I also bought the blanks from the group buy, my plan was to kind of mix and match, using the WASD keys for the alpha keys and the blanks as the modifiers..... Will this work well? Has anyone mixed the blank DSA keys with DSC keys? Just want to make sure before I drop even more money on this thing.




Offline darkfire32

  • Posts: 99
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 00:48:54 »
The WASD keycaps are of OEM profiles while the ones supplied by the massdrop are IIRC from SP company which has a different profile. So if u separate the keycaps to distinct groups, you might not feel any difference. But if u mix the two in the alphas or something then its gonna feel weird due to their profile differences.

Offline nomaded

  • Posts: 197
  • Location: Andover, MA
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 19:54:35 »
In addition you need to get backlit keycaps to see through the letters. Theres a site, I need to research which one, that sells translucent keycaps. Very good for backlighting, but no legends so you can't tell which key is which. Ruins the point of having backlighting.

maxkeyboard.com has a couple black translucent keycap sets, one with front legends and one with top legends. I have been thinking about getting one of these sets, but there still won't be enough 1x1.5 caps, so I'd still need to buy extras from SP (keycapsdirect.com). I haven't yet found info as to what kind of profile they use.

I think I may be leaning towards WASD's OEM profile set, and then a bunch of their 1x1.5 R3 keys. I like the look and choices for the legends on the WASD sets.

Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline nomaded

  • Posts: 197
  • Location: Andover, MA
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 20:13:24 »
maxkeyboard.com [...] I haven't yet found info as to what kind of profile they use.

And of course, I just found this thread from a year ago that shows maxkeyboard uses an OEM profile. There's also a photo that decently shows the difference between an OEM profile and SP's profile (DCS is my guess).

Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline nomaded

  • Posts: 197
  • Location: Andover, MA
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 20:20:54 »
I just bought the ergodox from the august groupbuy, and have been looking at the WASD keys, with legends...... They seem to be DSC. I also bought the blanks from the group buy, my plan was to kind of mix and match, using the WASD keys for the alpha keys and the blanks as the modifiers..... Will this work well? Has anyone mixed the blank DSA keys with DSC keys? Just want to make sure before I drop even more money on this thing.

This wiki page talks about the different profiles out there. And this page from SP gives more info on the differences between SP's DSA and DCS profiles.

Not having handled all these types of keycaps, I'm going to guess that the caps from WASD will be taller than the SP DSA caps from the Ergodox groupbuy. I would think having 1x1.5 keycaps on the left and right edges being shorter won't matter as much. But you may want taller caps for some of the 1x1 keys on the thumb clusters. Though, now that I think about it more, it might make sense to have shorter caps for the alpha keys, and taller all along the outside and the thumb clusters.
Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline nomaded

  • Posts: 197
  • Location: Andover, MA
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 16:04:26 »
Looks like Massdrop is now offering a groupbuy on blank PBT DCS keycaps: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap.

And the PCBs, by themselves: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-pcb.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 September 2013, 16:36:38 by nomaded »
Dvorak
ErgoDox fullhand (MX Clears) w/Nuclear Green Data SA || Infinity ErgoDox (Zealios 78g tactile) w/SA Retro || Atreus62 (MX Clears) w/Chocolatier || TECK 209 (MX Browns) || TouchStream ST
Kensington Slimblade Trackball || Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman || Apple Magic Trackpad
Current Dvorak-based ErgoDox layout || Current Dvorak-based TECK layout

Offline neevers1

  • Posts: 14
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 19:00:53 »
Looks like Massdrop is now offering a groupbuy on blank PBT DCS keycaps: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap.

And the PCBs, by themselves: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-pcb.

Why didn't they just have a choice of DSA or DSC with the group buy, I would have really appreciated that, or at least let us know this was coming so I would just have waited..... Now I have DSA caps on the way from the group buy, that I paid for, and now want these, plus WSAD caps with legends. This ergodox expedition is getting pricey.

Offline dragonxx21

  • Posts: 471
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 20:55:14 »
Approx. How much would it cost to build the ergodox without buying it from a GB?
Keyboards Owned:

Realforce Topre 91 Key JIS Profile - Main
CM Quickfire Rapid Blue Switches
IBM Model M in Industrial Shell

Offline neevers1

  • Posts: 14
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 22:17:57 »
Approx. How much would it cost to build the ergodox without buying it from a GB?

Supposedly around $570.

Offline dragonxx21

  • Posts: 471
Re: All Ergodox Questions, ask here Massdrop August 2013
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 22:25:14 »
Approx. How much would it cost to build the ergodox without buying it from a GB?

Supposedly around $570.

Dang, that is really steep.
Keyboards Owned:

Realforce Topre 91 Key JIS Profile - Main
CM Quickfire Rapid Blue Switches
IBM Model M in Industrial Shell