Author Topic: Vega.. Power consumption.  (Read 4900 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Vega.. Power consumption.
« on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 03:32:56 »
This is not going to sell..


Even looking at the power use difference alone, vega 64 uses ~80 more watts than the 1080 Ti..


So, lets say 3 hours of gaming a day for 3 years @ $0.2 per killowatt, comes out to ~$53 in electricity difference.

Given that vega 64 is 20% Slower than the 1080Ti.


It makes 0 sense to buy Vega @ $600+   when the 1080Ti can be found for $650 on sale..

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 03:37:14 »
To sell a Vega 64,   if the 1080Ti is $650,   

0.8 performance * $650 = $520

Minus $53 electricity difference = $467


Vs the 1080 Vanilla @ $465

Roughly equal performance

150 watt difference , $98 electricity difference over 3 years.

Minus 98 = $367..


They can not sell this at $600+  NO WAY..

Offline nmur

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 03:41:26 »
the vast majority of people don't look at the power usages of components

it's why a lot of people running single GPU systems are slapping 900W PSUs in their rigs

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 03:42:35 »
the vast majority of people don't look at the power usages of components

it's why a lot of people running single GPU systems are slapping 900W PSUs in their rigs


I get that,  but to price it at $600+ is ridiculous..

Offline digi

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 10:56:16 »
the vast majority of people don't look at the power usages of components

it's why a lot of people running single GPU systems are slapping 900W PSUs in their rigs


I get that,  but to price it at $600+ is ridiculous..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90660.msg2461655#msg2461655

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 12:47:14 »


the vast majority of people don't look at the power usages of components

it's why a lot of people running single GPU systems are slapping 900W PSUs in their rigs


I get that,  but to price it at $600+ is ridiculous..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90660.msg2461655#msg2461655

 

60 fps though, consoles are barely doing 60fps ..

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 13:12:01 »
It thought it was only the water-cooled Vega 64 that had a MSRP at $600. The air-cooled should be $500.

But of course you will not be able to find it for sale at that price anyway, because of demand from cryptocurrency "miners" hiking up the price ...

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 13:19:48 »
It thought it was only the water-cooled Vega 64 that had a MSRP at $600. The air-cooled should be $500.

But of course you will not be able to find it for sale at that price anyway, because of demand from cryptocurrency "miners" hiking up the price ...


vega air is 599

vega water is 699


GTFO,  Why would anyone pay that, 1080Ti = 650

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 13:58:59 »
Hmm.. Wikipedia lists the MSRP at $399 for Vega 56, $499 for Vega 64 and $699 for Vega 64 Liquid.
So, we were both wrong ... and it makes even less sense.
$200 price increase for liquid cooling and only a marginal performance improvement ...

But yeah, preorders for the card over here are more in line with $600 for Vega 64 (Air), but no NVidia 1080ti for less than $700.
Maybe the vendor you saw got scared by the AMD hype and reduced the price of the 1080ti prematurely... or do you list a MSRP for comparison?

I see that the Vega 64 does 10.2 Teraflops (single precision) while the GTX 1080 does 8.2 -- but the NVidia cards still beat AMD in most games.
I thought that Vega was supposed to be better optimised for games, and finally use deferred rendering in tiles like NVidia has done for the last two generations to be able to catch up, but no. I'm disappointed.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 16:42:32 »
Hmm.. Wikipedia lists the MSRP at $399 for Vega 56, $499 for Vega 64 and $699 for Vega 64 Liquid.
So, we were both wrong ... and it makes even less sense.
$200 price increase for liquid cooling and only a marginal performance improvement ...

But yeah, preorders for the card over here are more in line with $600 for Vega 64 (Air), but no NVidia 1080ti for less than $700.
Maybe the vendor you saw got scared by the AMD hype and reduced the price of the 1080ti prematurely... or do you list a MSRP for comparison?

I see that the Vega 64 does 10.2 Teraflops (single precision) while the GTX 1080 does 8.2 -- but the NVidia cards still beat AMD in most games.
I thought that Vega was supposed to be better optimised for games, and finally use deferred rendering in tiles like NVidia has done for the last two generations to be able to catch up, but no. I'm disappointed.



It's a pretty big stretch to rely on amd , fine wine,  in this case.. hahahahaha

The performance and efficiency gap is too large in this case.


But I'm at least glad they introduced Enhanced Sync, which is their version of Nvidia Fast sync.


Hopefully AMD won't be douch-ee like nvidia and will enable fastsync for all previous released products..

Offline digi

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 17:36:06 »


the vast majority of people don't look at the power usages of components

it's why a lot of people running single GPU systems are slapping 900W PSUs in their rigs


I get that,  but to price it at $600+ is ridiculous..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90660.msg2461655#msg2461655

 

60 fps though, consoles are barely doing 60fps ..


PS4 Pro does, come on TP...you're better than that! :)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 15 August 2017, 18:34:45 »


60 fps though, consoles are barely doing 60fps ..


PS4 Pro does, come on TP...you're better than that! :)


No,  ps4 pro still uses cheater 60fps.

half the time it also dives into lower 30s ,  and just drops vsync.. which is why ps4 pro has screen tearing..

Offline digi

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 16 August 2017, 11:36:52 »


60 fps though, consoles are barely doing 60fps ..


PS4 Pro does, come on TP...you're better than that! :)


No,  ps4 pro still uses cheater 60fps.

half the time it also dives into lower 30s ,  and just drops vsync.. which is why ps4 pro has screen tearing..

I don't have screen tearing at all, it looks beautiful..

Offline ika

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 16 August 2017, 12:07:31 »
delete
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 August 2017, 12:15:41 by ika »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 16 August 2017, 12:18:37 »

I don't have screen tearing at all, it looks beautiful..

LIES..

Digi works for Sony Propaganda Division..

Offline digi

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 16 August 2017, 12:50:32 »

I don't have screen tearing at all, it looks beautiful..

LIES..

Digi works for Sony Propaganda Division..

It has a 4.2 TFLOP AMD Radeon, get on my level!!! :D

Never question the "T-FLOP"!

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 18 August 2017, 13:41:17 »
Hmm.. Over here, AMD's distributor has been accused of gauging the price above the previously stated MSRP. Let's see if it is just this one, or if it happens everywhere ...

Edit: Yeah, it happens everywhere. Apparently the old MSRP was something they call a "promotional price" and at only at a few selected retailers for a limited time.
The real price was always supposed to be a $100 higher ...
Dishonest  AMD!
« Last Edit: Sat, 19 August 2017, 06:37:07 by Findecanor »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 09:32:47 »
Hmm.. Over here, AMD's distributor has been accused of gauging the price above the previously stated MSRP. Let's see if it is just this one, or if it happens everywhere ...

Edit: Yeah, it happens everywhere. Apparently the old MSRP was something they call a "promotional price" and at only at a few selected retailers for a limited time.
The real price was always supposed to be a $100 higher ...
Dishonest  AMD!


The only hurdle right now is,  If you release vega for $300-367  which is its worth in raw performance + power consumption difference

Then the Miners would snap them up, and gamers wouldn't get their hands on it.


If they sell for $450 like the gtx1080,   

Then,  it's still less economical, because people can get the gtx1080 and save $100 in electricity over the entire course of ownership. ~3 years.


So.....  It's stuck in a hard place..   They'd have to sell a card completely crippled purposely for Mining..

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 10:00:42 »
https://youtu.be/4X5aIyBa0gs
http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3025-amd-statement-on-vega-pricing-retailers-fault

These two pieces of content should help clarify something. It's from a really good enthusiast focused group and might at least clarify power consumption concerns.
The info regarding pricing of Vega still leaves much to be desired still, but it seems that AMD isn't giving any detailed response for the time being.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 10:08:01 »
https://youtu.be/4X5aIyBa0gs
http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3025-amd-statement-on-vega-pricing-retailers-fault

These two pieces of content should help clarify something. It's from a really good enthusiast focused group and might at least clarify power consumption concerns.
The info regarding pricing of Vega still leaves much to be desired still, but it seems that AMD isn't giving any detailed response for the time being.


That's the same information in my op..  except worse, because they're more stupid and redundant.

hahahaha

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 10:13:22 »
Goddamned miners..

Hmm... 3D graphics and computing applications use primarily floating point these days where as cryptocurrencies use hashes that must be computed exactly using integer math.

Etherium is based on the SHA3-256 hash algorithm, which uses:
 - Bitwise exclusive-OR
 - Bitwise rotation
 - Bitwise parity

None of those operations are needed for 3D graphics or for advanced physics calculations and the like. They are interesting only for cryptography.
I think AMD and NVidia should take a look at how to cripple those operations without affecting floating-point or rasterizing. If they did, then - in theory - the GPUs would become uninteresting for bitcoin miners but 3D gaming performance would remain unchanged.
Although maybe some games would suffer. But I think it would be worth it to find out.

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 14:24:13 »
It's really not the responsibility of Nvidia or AMD to decide who their cards should be made for or sold to.
Money is money and if people will pay for something for whatever it's worth, then here shouldn't be an issue.
However, with the GDDR5 shortages now being a crippling blow for all GPU production, adoption rates for pc gamers are going to cripple and it's going to really harm the pc gamer space if nothing is done.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 20:45:15 »
It's really not the responsibility of Nvidia or AMD to decide who their cards should be made for or sold to.
Money is money and if people will pay for something for whatever it's worth, then here shouldn't be an issue.
However, with the GDDR5 shortages now being a crippling blow for all GPU production, adoption rates for pc gamers are going to cripple and it's going to really harm the pc gamer space if nothing is done.


In the grand scheme, crypto currency is innocuous, after elon saves us with solar.


BUHH,  in the short term,  it's a huge waste of good electricity.

Offline Belfong

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 21:06:52 »
No way I can accept that 150W extra over a 1080. To me, power efficiency and less heat generation is very important, otherwise, I will be cooked in my own room.. already the weather lingers around 29C here, imagine having an inefficient GPU!

Poor AMD.. their engineering prowess is not as good as nVidia huh?
 

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 21:15:10 »
No way I can accept that 150W extra over a 1080. To me, power efficiency and less heat generation is very important, otherwise, I will be cooked in my own room.. already the weather lingers around 29C here, imagine having an inefficient GPU!

Poor AMD.. their engineering prowess is not as good as nVidia huh?


No it's just a radical new design vs nvidia's


So, they really haven't had the time to do the power optimizations yet.


Offline Belfong

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 19 August 2017, 21:17:19 »
AMD sympathizers!
 


Offline digi

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Re: Vega.. Power consumption.
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 22 August 2017, 18:22:43 »
Builds expensive PC to watch Twitch.tv..

Buy's cheap PS4 Pro to play games..