Non computer related ergonomics

[hoggy]

I thought we could discuss ergonomics that isn't computer related.  Those of us that are struggling/thriving with health issues might have a few hours of their day that don't involve computers...

So, do you have any thoughts?  Is there a product out there that's badly designed so people with carpal tunnel can't use it without pain, but others don't notice or appreciate the problem?  Or have you found a better way of doing things?  Having trouble getting to sleep because of pain? 

[Lanx]

Piano?

Also car seats ugh wtf only ergo thing is to us woodn beads?

[hoggy]

I've heard good things about wooden beads on a car seat, but I don't think I'd want them in a crash - I wonder if they would make it too easy to slide under the seat belt.  I tend to take my coat off when sitting in a car, the seats fit me much better without it.

I can recommend grippy gloves if you're moving furniture, boxes (full or flat packed), or pretty much anything heavy.  They reduce the amount of grip you have to provide yourself making the task of shifting stuff much easier on the forearms.

[kurplop]

I spent my first 15 years in the work force pulling orders in a warehouse. We used carts with post mounted clipboards to hold our orders. All day long we would reach with arms stretched horizontally to grab the bills. Most of us would go home with knots in our upper backs, not from the lifting of merchandise but the constant reaching for bills.

I theorized about a solution which was as simple as adding a  4" offset in the clipboard pole.  I mentioned it to a co-worker  who  immediately went to the maintenance dept. and had some poles adapted. The improvement was so dramatic that within 2 weeks they 'fixed' all 50+ carts.

Any activity that causes discomfort deserves consideration as to how to mitigate it and often the solution is simple and inexpensive

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I have a lot of things coming to mind. Lets see...

Washing dishes by hand really gets me. It's usually specific objects like water glasses. That's why everything goes in the dish washer and I try to  air dry things instead of drying them with a towel. I think it takes less time too.

Certain handles or knobs are hard for me at times. I have an old sink in my house with poorly designed handles that are impossible to grip when your hands are wet. The sink is ugly looking, so the wife is already on board with replacing it. Also, in the winter my front door gets really hard to open. I think I just need to use some WD40 or something.

One thing I do when driving is at stop lights, I take my hands off the wheel and rest them. It makes driving a little more bearable.

I got a $15-20 wired headset to plugin to my phone. It makes even short conversations a lot easier on my hands/arms. I do that or speakerphone.

[absyrd]

Piano?

Also car seats ugh wtf only ergo thing is to us woodn beads?

My neurologist recommend me this McKenzie Super Lumbar Roll for car rides. Before using it, I couldn't last more that 15 mins without back and abdomen pain.

[islisis]

bicycle riding. without reading up about what pro cyclists feel, constant grip force on horizontal handles can be a strain. also, hunching the back to reach them. my solution has been riding upright with no hands...

[tp4tissue]

Piano?

Also car seats ugh wtf only ergo thing is to us woodn beads?

piano is indeed un ergonomic.. haha..that's why we got synth software..

[jacobolus]

bicycle riding. without reading up about what pro cyclists feel, constant grip force on horizontal handles can be a strain. also, hunching the back to reach them. my solution has been riding upright with no hands...

You might have too small a bicycle. Getting the right size bike makes a huge difference.

[jacobolus]

Car seats are indeed awful. Luckily I don’t have a car and don’t too often drive or ride in one, so it’s not so bad for me.

I’m curious how well these work:
http://www.humantool.fi/english/selkatuki.shtml

Video:

[islisis]

You might have too small a bicycle. Getting the right size bike makes a huge difference.

i don't doubt you're right, it's just a cheap mtb. but i'm not really inferring it's a design flaw, i don't see how you can well combine high seat ride for efficient pedaling and handles high enough to keep the upper body centre of mass straight, without making steering awkward. seems to be a feature in the cycling world anyhow, for aerodynamics

[jacobolus]

You might have too small a bicycle. Getting the right size bike makes a huge difference.

i don't doubt you're right, it's just a cheap mtb. but i'm not really inferring it's a design flaw, i don't see how you can well combine high seat ride for efficient pedaling and handles high enough to keep the upper body centre of mass straight, without making steering awkward. seems to be a feature in the cycling world anyhow, for aerodynamics

You definitely end up bending forward to ride a bike, but the handlebars should be high enough that when your seat is at the proper height, you can bend forward from the waist with your back relatively straight, rather than needing to really hunch over.

[islisis]

that's a good sign, i really am looking forward to my next bike

i do have a feeling that i will prefer riding with my back vertical whenever possible though

maybe it's the current infatuation with back posture i'm having. from kitchen work as mentioned in this thread to reading from a phone on the train, i've been aware how our angle of gaze affects back alignment. on the streets in tokyo most people spend all looking at the ground (or phones), avoiding all possible eye contact. not that the overweight tourists are any better posture wise. then i see insane cases of back problems in elderly people and wonder how people can ignore it for so long (not suggesting it is only posture, historically diet was the main problem but back pain is still supposedly the number one health issue in japan)

[Oobly]

You might have too small a bicycle. Getting the right size bike makes a huge difference.

i don't doubt you're right, it's just a cheap mtb. but i'm not really inferring it's a design flaw, i don't see how you can well combine high seat ride for efficient pedaling and handles high enough to keep the upper body centre of mass straight, without making steering awkward. seems to be a feature in the cycling world anyhow, for aerodynamics

You definitely end up bending forward to ride a bike, but the handlebars should be high enough that when your seat is at the proper height, you can bend forward from the waist with your back relatively straight, rather than needing to really hunch over.

Ah, like this you mean?



 

Of course, the usual OCC position is WAY better... cough.



This is more my style, balance your weight with the pushback from the wind.



In terms of bicycles I tend to have a hard time finding a comfortable one. I'm a little taller than average, but have a disproportionately long body and arms compared to my legs. It's hard to find a bike that I can adjust everything to be in the right position / distance. Currently using an old Marin Muirwoods mountain bike with straightish bars and the saddle set pretty low. Something like the one in this pic:

[davkol]

Flat bike handlebars are a PITA indeed. If I keep biking at all, I'll switch to bullhorns + triathlon bars. I've inspired Dad, who happens to have a ton of trouble with his hands, to do the same.

[Lanx]

i was thinking about this and cooking, i'd usually chop (lets just say celery) parallel to the counter, but that goes against the body. so now i chop with the celery 45degrees to the counter, more comfortable, now i have cross thatching marks on my cutting board.

[vivalarevolución]

Pretty much everything in modern life seems unergonomic.  Sitting in cars, sitting at a desk, watching TV, not really walking much of anywhere.  Mode;n life is designed to turn us into flat blobs.

 Fighting off the slow rot is a constant battle.

[Oobly]

I find car steering wheel positioning rather unergonomic for long distance driving, even adjustable ones. According to driving instructors you're supposed to keep your hands at ten o'clock and two o'clock for best control, but I tend to rest my left elbow on the door rest with my left hand holding around 8 o'clock and my right hand sometimes on the wheel, sometimes on the gear lever depending on what's ahead, behind, and all around. Keeping your arms raised in front of you for long periods is not ideal..

The seats in my Golf are actually quite okay, though.

[Lanx]

last time i checked the dmv guide it was 4 and 8

[EvillePanda]

Knitting, crochet, most hand crafting activities are murder on the joints.

As for bikes.  We have a shop here in time that custom fits the bike to each person.  Seats, handle bars, etc.  It's kinda neat.

[hoggy]

Just spotted these on Wired...
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/02/3d-printed-arthritis-splints

[iLLucionist]

You might have too small a bicycle. Getting the right size bike makes a huge difference.

i don't doubt you're right, it's just a cheap mtb. but i'm not really inferring it's a design flaw, i don't see how you can well combine high seat ride for efficient pedaling and handles high enough to keep the upper body centre of mass straight, without making steering awkward. seems to be a feature in the cycling world anyhow, for aerodynamics

You definitely end up bending forward to ride a bike, but the handlebars should be high enough that when your seat is at the proper height, you can bend forward from the waist with your back relatively straight, rather than needing to really hunch over.

I do bicycle racing on the side as a hobby to keep fit, but fanatically (60-100 KM in one go), but the one and only thing that keeps getting me, is my neck. I have no problem with the position, and trainings with professional bikers taught me how to relax my back and all during long distances, but my neck always hurts. No matter how hard I train or relax or whatever.

[jacobolus]

I do bicycle racing on the side as a hobby to keep fit, but fanatically (60-100 KM in one go), but the one and only thing that keeps getting me, is my neck. I have no problem with the position, and trainings with professional bikers taught me how to relax my back and all during long distances, but my neck always hurts. No matter how hard I train or relax or whatever.

I hear you. I don’t often go on super long rides. Is there any way to take occasional breaks during your ride? I find that 5 minute breaks help me a lot in any situation where I’m stuck in an awkward position for a long time.

[islisis]

Just spotted these on Wired...
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/02/3d-printed-arthritis-splints

these too, for thumbs
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/04/bmw-3d-prints-new-thumbs-for-factory-workers

I have no problem with the position, and trainings with professional bikers taught me how to relax my back and all during long distances, but my neck always hurts. No matter how hard I train or relax or whatever.

i can see what you mean. maybe someone should invent prism glasses for bike riding to keep the neck straight :/

[hoggy]

I remember a hearing about an experiment where someone wore prism glasses for a few weeks and was able to ride a bike even though their vision was projected sideways (or whatever). I wonder if a camera and monitor setup might be easier to get used to.

[jacobolus]

People definitely use reflectors/prisms for vision in occupations where it would otherwise be necessary to turn the head uncomfortably for long periods. I also know they get used e.g. by rock climbing belayers. http://www.powernplayusa.com