XMIT Hall Board - strong negative feedback

[XMIT]

I recently received this feedback from geekhack forum member HighPlainsDrafter who, for their sake, I tried to keep anonymous. I did this out of respect for their privacy but their continued threats forced my hand.

HighPlainsDrafter wrote, via personal message:

You gang-raped my wallet with your ill-tested recent massdrop of the keyboard. Surely you knew you'd screwed up on the prototypes' keys being ridiculously light.
Yet for whatever reason -- pigheaded pride, greed, or incompetent behavior, you chose to stubbornly march ahead instead of fixing the design flaw.

Damn you for gang-raping our wallets. How will you ever repay us loyal enthusiasts? You took advantage of our belief and screwed us. Damn you, damn you, damn you!

I know I'm not out of bounds on this, as evidence by the public and private notes angrily agreeing with me. Don't bother privately replying -- it won't be read. You've lost the opportunity. Instead, make it up to the many others echoing my disgust at your asinine behavior in going through with the product at full speed instead of properly holding until you'd fixed the issue. You son of a *****.

I don't quite know what to say to this. I've received much feedback on the boards through multiple forums, and am aware of many issues that I am working to fix. The majority of folks who purchased an XMIT Hall Effect Board, including many close friends, have been delighted with them. I have heard from many folks who are not so happy with their boards and, when able, have addressed their concerns directly.

This stands alone as the first - and hopefully last - ad hominem attack I've received, in response to trying to bring this board to the community. I read the first two paragraphs as humorous, but was disturbed by the time I got to the end of the third.

I feel that I've been transparent every step of the way.

The only meaningful feedback I can offer, HighPlainsDrafter, is this: if you have a particular concern with the board that I may address in a future revision, please let me know and I will gladly add it to my errata. I think your concern here was with the spring weights, and I regret any confusion between actuation and bottom-out weights. There is a chance replacement springs will be available in the future.

Please contact Massdrop support for repair, replacement, or refund options. We will cheerfully refund your money if that is the only path to satisfaction.

If anyone else agrees with this forum member - as implied by the "private notes agreeing with me" line -  please reply here.

[chuckdee]

You've put in a lot of work on this- work that wasn't reflected nor compensated fully in the pricing, just by way of the time you've spent alone.  People have issues- that will always happen.  People will have criticisms, and that will likewise happen, and shouldn't be discouraged.  But this?  This should definitely be discouraged.  There's ways of communicating, and ways not to communicate.  This is the latter.

[Moistgun]

Haters gonna hate loledit

[ImpendingxDoom]

Hey XMIT! I echo the sentiment that the switches are light. I have the 70g, and it fells like a step lighter than any MX black I've ever typed on (aka distinctly NOT 70g). I assume this is because the nature of the switches are different. It would make logical sense that the weight of a spring would lead to a universal resistance across any medium, but this Hall Effect board is definitely proof that that is not true. I'm sure the fact that this was manufactured relatively cheaply in China is doing nothing to help your case, but I can't imagine it wouldn't be anywhere near relatively affordable otherwise.

Unfortunately I have had many minor and major injuries to my hands and wrist due to my profession. This means that typing on light or excessively heavy switches can become very uncomfortable after a short period of time. The "70g" board is light enough that I bottom out hard, and it became painful to type at a normal intensity to me. If I consciously think about it I can type just fine , but I would definitely prefer to not have to worry about it.

THAT BEING SAID

No real problems with function or quality of the board. I am actually grateful to have the experience of using a magnetic switch. Never had the pleasure of a vintage Hall Effect crossing my desk. Now I know what this kind of actuation looks, feels, and sounds like (albeit light). For the price, I got what I wanted out of it.

Goddamn for the first run of a board, hiccups are the ****ing price of admission.






^{Just ask my DOA Poker X, mysteriously shorting L3 1800, or any number of MX blues THAT WON'T ****ING CLICK. ****}

[Niomosy]

XMIT, you've put a lot of work into this board.  I knew what I was getting into when I bought this board and accepted the risks associated with it to be able to finally get my hands on an already working, Cherry MX compatible, hall effect keyboard.

I've watched your handling of some bad boards.  You have nothing to be ashamed of. 

[schoolbus]

Eh, people are always going to troll and be negative. New products will always have problems, and risks are always prevalent especially when dealing with foreign vendors. To say you've "gang-raped" wallets is obviously some clearly misinformed person who is speaking on emotion, not on fact.

The product has its flaws, and you've acknowledged that. In addition, you've been overly transparent and based on your communication you're trying your best to address and fix the problems at hand in an incredibly concise and organized manner.

Whoever messaged you this clearly doesn't understand the real world (is likely trolling) and unfortunately further illustrates that one of the biggest problems with this community is entitlement. Since your board was provided through massdrop, refunds are an option so if that person is so upset, they should have the adequate means to solve their problem rather than spew negativity.

Keep up the good work, this is a natural part of product development and all things considered the product is pretty impressive, especially at the price you offered it.

[XMIT]

Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.

@ImpendingxDoom, congrats, you get to be a beta tester for the 85g springs I'm planning to offer next time. You're not the first to say that even the 70g springs are light. Also I'll change what I call them publicly to match actuation weights. Thanks manufacturers refer to them by their bottoming out weights.

[Halverson]

Daaaaaamnnnn. Someone sounds salty.

[klennkellon]

Consider it a ****ty first generation. It can only get better from here mate.

[Niomosy]

Not even sure it's a ****ty first generation.  I'd deem it problematic but certainly not ****ty.  Agreed that things can only improve from here, at least so long as the Chinese company is willing to step up.  Hopefully that's the case and others can enjoy some hall effect keyboard goodness.

On a side note, the more I type on the 50g springs, the more I'm tempted to switch them out for the 70g springs.  They're definitely lighter than reds as I A/B them with my Ducky with MX reds.

[HWGuy]

So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

[chyros]

I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .

[dantan]

I don't think there is a problem here. There are always people with strong feelings, and you can't please everyone. In fact if you got zero people with strong feelings, it would be very strange.

The purpose of a massdrop refund is to take care of the people with strong feelings.

I personally feel better that some people hate XMIT's board. That means it is a real board that people have used and was found to be less than satisfactory for some people. If nobody said anything it would be as though everyone had a lukewarm response "I guess it's an okay board, now let me put it back into the box and see what's the next interesting drop."

[Niomosy]

I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .

The 50g springs are pretty light.  It's taking me some getting used to along with more typos than I'm used to getting while I type.  That I've got some SA caps on, which I haven't typed on in a while, probably isn't helping things, but even before that, the 50g caps felt rather light to type on.

[XMIT]

The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT

[E TwentyNine]

I recently received this feedback from a geekhack forum member who, for their sake, shall remain anonymous.

I know I'm not out of bounds on this, as evidence by the public and private notes angrily agreeing with me. Don't bother privately replying -- it won't be read. You've lost the opportunity. Instead, make it up to the many others echoing my disgust at your asinine behavior in going through with the product at full speed instead of properly holding until you'd fixed the issue. You son of a *****.

"People share my exact view privately" is as old as usenet.

I see no reason why this person should remain anonymous.  Expressing discontent is one thing.  Being an ******* about it is something else, and it should be exposed and apologized for or excised from the community.


(Edit: You updated while I was typing.  Good on you for exposing HighPlainsDrafter.)

[dantan]

The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

I am inclined to treat this less seriously thanks to the threat. This guy is clearly unbalanced.

Think for a moment. If it didn't involve something that you are personally emotionally involved with, would you have taken it seriously?

Here's an imitation:
XMIT, you are a filthy cockroach who has scammed thousands of people. Thousands of people agree with me that you're a parasite and below our contempt. WE're going to punish you with the utmost severity, and tie you up in lawsuits from China to Chile, until there is no place on earth where you can set foot without being slapped with a subpoena. We will make sure that injunctions are issued against you in every jurisdiction, and you will be banned from paypal and from every means of taking anybody's money henceforth. If you are not banned, I'll find every excuse to sue your employer until they fire you.

Exaggerated, emotional, irrational and unreasonable. Surely you have come across mentally unbalanced people in your daily life, and there is nothing you can do about it. I was once chased for a mile by this woman insisting that I'd thrown dirty water at her, and she just didn't want to hear that a passing cyclist had gone through a puddle at high speed next to her. Eventually I realized that she needed to vent at me, because there was no way she could have caught up with that cyclist.

Dale Carnegie would probably have advised you to apologize profusely to this guy and massage his ego, and he would calm down and maybe even start praising you. I personally wouldn't have been able to stomach massaging this guy's ego, but then again I am not Dale Carnegie.

[Sissy]

Well that sure is not the right way to behave.

[schoolbus]

Well that escalated quickly. Sounds like someone needs to lay off the keyboards and get some actual mental help if being able to refund a $110 keyboard is causing them this much mental stress.

[fohat.digs]

The takeaway for me is that I still want one of these badly, but will probably go with the 70g springs now.

The only "criticism" I could find in the complaint was that the springs were too light.
That seems like a rather small issue in the grand scheme of things.

However, I too had missed the point that these were bottom-out weights rather than actuation. That does make a difference.

[merlin64]

How much was the board? Wasn't it like ~$100 USD? Don't we have Buyer Beware notices when it comes to GB? Was this the first GB he participated in? Wow that's a very extreme "complaint". Even if Xmit was 100% in the wrong, there's no room for threats like that. It's...just a keyboard...

[Puddsy]

Caveat Emptor.

[Bucake]

those are some ugly messages. good to see you respond in a respectable fashion xmit, it's a real shame your work had to bring this kind of frustration on your plate

[tp4tissue]

So...  what is wrong with the board ?

[chyros]

I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .

The 50g springs are pretty light.  It's taking me some getting used to along with more typos than I'm used to getting while I type.  That I've got some SA caps on, which I haven't typed on in a while, probably isn't helping things, but even before that, the 50g caps felt rather light to type on.

They are, but I kinda like them. They feel responsive for me while not actuating sporadically too much, and I could swear they feel smoother than the 70 g springs.

Also, I have to say this sort of behaviour is absolutely appalling, not just considering these circumstances, but under ANY circumstances. Moreover, I don't even share the (actually rather measly ("they're too light") objections. I was aware the 70 gf was a bottom-out weight, as well, it wasn't kept a secret or anything.

[tp4tissue]

Well.. we don't have the full correspondence between XMIT and HighPlainsDrafter ..


It's possible XMIT was being a **** in his PRIOR exchanges with HPD, which sparked this rather intense dislike..

--NOT saying XMIT was,  just that it is possible.--

Either way, this thread is XMIT's hedge against HPD coming here and starting a negative thread which frames HPD as a victim..


The politics at least is pretty clear..   

[Tally810]

I don't own one of these but I did try a couple at the Austin meetup and they are very unique and I think what you have done is quite an accomplishment.  They way you are on the "ground floor" personally taking in all complaints is actually quite admirable and I think you are handling this very well.  This was a new design and a first run of an untested product for 100 bucks so hiccups are to be expected.  Whoever thought they were getting a 100 percent tested 5th gen polished product is just silly.  You brought something new to us enthusiasts and I think it's great.  Keep up the good work bud.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[XMIT]

This is pretty much it. The only prior correspondence was back in November when he told me he made an error with his order (which I forwarded to MD support), and a few days ago when he expressed concern and disappointment at the spring weights on the Massdrop discussion (where I did not reply immediately but again directed him to Massdrop support).

He seems to think that I personify the boards and all issues go to me. That's simply not true. For every issue he mentioned to me, I was near powerless to do anything. Any frustration should be directed to Massdrop.

I did ping MD and they are reviewing the case. I hope he opts for a refund and that we can all move beyond this.

[tp4tissue]

This is pretty much it. The only prior correspondence was back in November when he told me he made an error with his order (which I forwarded to MD support), and a few days ago when he expressed concern and disappointment at the spring weights on the Massdrop discussion (where I did not reply immediately but again directed him to Massdrop support).

He seems to think that I personify the boards and all issues go to me. That's simply not true. For every issue he mentioned to me, I was near powerless to do anything. Any frustration should be directed to Massdrop.

I did ping MD and they are reviewing the case. I hope he opts for a refund and that we can all move beyond this.

Next one ya'll do..

Gotta put in BOLD,  Bottom out weight 50 grams..

hahahahahahaha

[fohat.digs]

It would be very helpful to hear comparisons by people who have both and own various Alps and Cherry linear switches who could describe and compare the relative "perceived" weight of the 50g and 70g HE models to commonly known quantities.

[HWGuy]

I mean don't these boards have very little actual housing in them? Comparatively - while the actual newton force to depress them might be the same as say a cherry or topre board, the initial friction of the key presses might be vastly different. Same total force needed, but begins moving much earlier than say, a 45g MX Brown.

That's the only thing I can think of - less moving parts means less friction.

[MJ45]

The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT

Maybe Massdrop should refund this dude and include some........

[riotonthebay]

Honestly, verify the contents of these PMs and ban this toxic *******. Personal attacks like this, public or private, should not be tolerated.

[fohat.digs]

A meme depicting a single individual who "gang-raped my wallet" would be amusing.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.

There's not even an industry standard — a lot of vintage switch specifications don't tell you what the specified weight actually represents. Sometimes it's the bottom out weight, and sometimes it's the actuation weight. Sometimes it's nonsense.

SMK J-M0404 "operation force" is cited as "90 grams ± 20%" and "90 ± 30 g" on the same page and these are not even equivalent. The switch is linear (which is not explained) so you could determine the actuation force (using the stated pretravel figures) if you also have the preload of the spring!

The contemporary General Instrument Series S950 (their version of Alps SKCC) cites the "operating force" as "60 grams", but no preload or terminal force.

The SMK switch is surprisingly also only 3 mm travel, so even if the preload and terminal force are typical, the gradient is steeper as a result. S950 has more travel at 3.6 mm, so that will be easier to press. I did notice that the SMK switches seemed quite heavy, even though the weight wasn't unusually high.

Only with experience you learn what questions to ask, as you realise where the ambiguities lie. Without experience or good guidance, it's easy to make really bad assumptions about the meaning of ambiguous specifications. Linear switches follow y=mx+c and so long as you remember that, you'll remember that knowing a single co-ordinate won't tell you the whole equation. The equation can be derived from any two points on the line: two forces, and two corresponding distances (any of: preload at 0 mm, actuation force at pretravel, and force at full travel).

Ideally, you'd be given all the figures: travel distance, preload, force at actuation, tactile force (if applicable), peak force (if different) and terminal force. Even better would be a force curve, but those have always been rare. Regardless of their inaccuracy, they're not usually even given by manufacturers.

[justinmtype]

Honestly, verify the contents of these PMs and ban this toxic *******. Personal attacks like this, public or private, should not be tolerated.

Report to the mods.

[ImpendingxDoom]

Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.

@ImpendingxDoom, congrats, you get to be a beta tester for the 85g springs I'm planning to offer next time. You're not the first to say that even the 70g springs are light. Also I'll change what I call them publicly to match actuation weights. Thanks manufacturers refer to them by their bottoming out weights.

Awesome! TBH I haven't used another board since the Hall effect got here.

The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.

The latest correspondence:

If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.

Drar HighPlainsDrafter:

Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.

I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.

Cheers,
XMIT

Sweet baby jesus I haven't seen delusions like this in a long time. I 100% agree that a personal attack forfeits the courtesy of anonymity, no one should be able to get away with acting like that.

[Rob27shred]

Wow, just wow. It really blows my mind how some people can act so crassly & feel so entitled. I mean I'm no angel myself but I am a firm believer of treating others as you want to be treated yourself, especially within the 1st few interactions with someone. HighPlainsDrafter is way out of line here IMO, even more so considering it seems his board is working fine & it's just the switch weighting he has an issue with. If if he really feels that unsatisfied just return the damn thing to MD & be done with it, he's acting like he got burned but can easily get his money back. Absolutely no need to attack someone like that & over what is really a non issue to make it that much worse to me. It's like a spoiled rotten toddler that didn't get the toy they wanted on Christmas...

Don't let it get to you XMIT, me & many other community members think you did a great job bringing these boards to us. I think that PM is just the rantings of a spoiled, over entitled a-hole to be frank about it. I got your back on this & am sure many others do as well. Keep up the good work & don't let the haters get you down!

[digi]

This kid is just mad that he didn't buy a Realforce...it happens all the time Xmit, don't worry.

[taylorswiftttttt]

removed

[tp4tissue]

Most of his abusive diatribe is just par for the course on the internet, But the personal threat against XMIT is unacceptable. Mods should verify PMs and then ban

you have 11 posts.. and yet you see the whole picture as to request the banning of someone you don't even know..


I am reporting your post and requesting a ban from the mods..


hahahahahahaha

[Captainbuttmonkey]

This guy sounds like he has spent too much time on 4chan and just discovered a thesaurus. I wouldn't pay too much attention if I were you XMIT.

[taylorswiftttttt]

removed

[mniels]

I am reporting your post and requesting a ban from the mods..


hahahahahahaha

Since you've been around so long, maybe you should have read the rules

Show Image

Touche.

[oneproduct]

It would be very helpful to hear comparisons by people who have both and own various Alps and Cherry linear switches who could describe and compare the relative "perceived" weight of the 50g and 70g HE models to commonly known quantities.

I have a preference for light switches, so I mostly use cherry brown and red (though I also have black, blue, buckling spring, beam spring, space invaders and matias linear). One of my brown keyboards is variable weight in topre style, with most of the stock springs replaced with lighter ones. I bought the 50g XMIT keyboard and it's definitely lighter in feeling than stock browns and reds. I love it though. In general, my experience in the forums here leads me to believe that most people prefer heavier switches on average though, so I can understand people not being a fan of the lightness.

[phoible]

I ordered a keyboard with 50g springs, and it is pretty light, although not to the point of being unusable. I'm happy with the board, although I haven't had much time to use it (one problem with having too many keyboards). It's my first RGB board, and the backlighting is pretty cool, although probably not all that useful (which is why I don't have any other RGB boards and my only other backlit board is my Whitefox).

The only screw up on my order is that the 70g springs I ordered weren't included (I filed a ticket with Massdrop, which I hope they will resolve, although the extra springs were only $5, so it isn't a huge deal).

Overall, I think that XMIT did a good job, especially for a first run of a custom board. Looking forward to future improvements in both firmware and hardware.

[Niomosy]

So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

I've got both in front of me.  The 50g XMIT board is definitely lighter than the 45g Cherry MX Reds.  It's clearly noticeable as well.  The XMIT board needs a very light touch for activation.  Like XMIT said, the 50g on the hall effect switches isn't the activation point.  It honestly feels like MX linear switches with maybe 35g activation.  Reds are definitely heavier.

Most seem to be saying that the 70g are somewhere between MX Reds and MX Blacks.  Personally I'd probably go for some 60g springs for the XMIT board but I've yet to try the 70g springs to be able to fully figure out what I like on the new hall effect boards.

[HWGuy]

So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?

For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".

I've got both in front of me.  The 50g XMIT board is definitely lighter than the 45g Cherry MX Reds.  It's clearly noticeable as well.  The XMIT board needs a very light touch for activation.  Like XMIT said, the 50g on the hall effect switches isn't the activation point.  It honestly feels like MX linear switches with maybe 35g activation.  Reds are definitely heavier.

Most seem to be saying that the 70g are somewhere between MX Reds and MX Blacks.  Personally I'd probably go for some 60g springs for the XMIT board but I've yet to try the 70g springs to be able to fully figure out what I like on the new hall effect boards.

I made a speculation a few posts after that that this is probably due to the fact the actual switch itself has very few moving parts in it. The total force required may be 50g, but it also means that there is very little ramp up of initial force due to how hall sensor switches work - that's my best guess.

[SpecTP]

seriously.. that guy needs mental help.

I have the 70g springs and I have posted on MD that they felt light. But overall, I am satisfied with the product I paid for. It's a solid keyboard to game on.

[XMIT]

Maybe it would be helpful to post the Hall effect force curves and similar Cherry MX force curves. I've mentioned these in the past, and, the full data is available at https://plot.ly/~haata .

First, let's compare the 50g Hall springs with Cherry MX Red.




My "50g" springs start with about 20g of force at 0mm and finally hit 45g of force at 4.5mm (long travel!). By comparison, Cherry MX Red starts with about 30g of force at 0mm and hits about 55g of force at 3.8mm. So, we can say with certainty: the 50g springs are lighter than Cherry MX Red.

Second, let's have a look at the 70g springs, and modern Cherry MX Black.



(from https://plot.ly/~haata/72/cherry-mx-black/)

My "50g" springs start with about 10g of force at 0mm and finally hit 65g of force at 4.5mm (again, long travel!). By comparison, Cherry MX Black starts with about 40g of force at 0mm and hits about 75g of force at 4.0mm. So, we can say with certainty, too: the 70g springs are lighter than Cherry MX Black, but heavier than Cherry MX Red.

These plots are dated in early December of 2016. I answered some questions about spring weights in pre-purchase discussions, but sadly, this data was only posted after the drop closed. But it is data - it is fact - and I consider it to be authoritative.

If someone who purchased the board is unhappy with the spring weights they would be bester served by either reselling the board on the open market, or if there is some additional concern, reaching out to Massdrop support for guidance.

I hope this clarifies any remaining confusion on the spring weights.