Please give input/criticize my custom layout for a MS Ergo-inspired keyboard

[mamcx]

I'm working to build a MS Ergonomic-alike keyb. This is my first project ever.

Now If I doing this I think, let's do a custom layout!. I will print the keys on http://wasdkeyboards.com. To avoid create a custom keyset from scratch, my plan is salvage some keys from the numpad to fill it.

I'm aware the cherry profile is not ideal, but find a custom printed DSA will be way too costly to me. But I'm worry the shuffle of the keys positions bring trouble because the profile.

This are my constraints:

- This will be a close clone of MS Ergo. If I find a way, I plan to curve the layout, to mimic the MS Ergo. I probably till the alphas a little from left-right (and viz) in a small slope. If not, this will be similar to LZ Ergo. This is the only thing set on stone
- I'm a developer, so I try to optimize for the keys I use more. If I print custom text, is to make this happen. I can back-off from the idea and use a normal set if this have some fatal flaw I don't see
- I hope to not spend more than US 100 in the keyset.
- I not concerned about fast typing or gaming, or have any preference about mech keys. I have gateron browns.
- The layout is non-staggered. Not because I know what I'm doing, just for clarity in the design. I imagine it could be better for ergonomic.
- I imagine move the shift keys and use 2 smaller space bar is a good thing.
- I will restrict this to what is possible with a full 104 ansi keyset, without different sizes that are available there.
- wasd let me print anything on top! I imagine the quality of the keys are good enough in contrast to what I have used before (never a quality keyset).

And I'm open to improve, move or change this layout. I have not strong preferences (except to try to build a MS ergo).

This is the layout as today (not yet fully polished, only thinking in the keys not the actual final result):

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/75c4808455c07affbad9b1911c6fe6a5

[tp4tissue]

are you going to keep the keys straight like that.?  or is it just a mock for another keyboard.

[mamcx]

Do you mean if I move it similar to:



Or something else?

[tp4tissue]

something like that, with tenting, perhaps..

[Findecanor]

If you haven't seen it already: Microsoft did once consider doing straight rows and columns. Here is a picture of an early prototype:


I have not typed much on any keyboard that has a vertical Enter key as in your layout so I am curious to how it would feel. They used to be more common on typewriters, even IBM made a few computer keyboards with them  in the 1970s. Every one I have seen has no key in front of it though, or the key in front is significantly lower in height but I don't know if that is significant. If I were you, I would explore with and without a Ctrl key in front of it.

BTW. There are also keyboards with Shift keys like that: such as the TypeMatrix and the Maltron. Or for a really weird one that has both types, the Scythe ErgoDiver. 

[AMongoose]

Looks interesting, should give your right pinky a much deserved rest.

I have 2 ideas for your consideration:
1. Ctrl is too far away (and on both sides), I find it better to have it bellow the 'S' and 'L' letters.
2. Loving the idea of having two extra rows for parenthesis, but shouldn't the default action be opening so you can have the editor autocomplete and save you a chord?

[mamcx]

Looks interesting, should give your right pinky a much deserved rest.

How can I do that?

2. Loving the idea of having two extra rows for parenthesis, but shouldn't the default action be opening so you can have the editor autocomplete and save you a chord?

Oh, yeah, that is the idea. I was not thinking and do what "look" visually correct instead of do what is the default behaviour in a keyboard. Maybe instead of the up/down (where down is the default) can I do left/right (so it will look "(  )") to make it clear.

[mamcx]

If you haven't seen it already: Microsoft did once consider doing straight rows and columns.

Is good to know my idea is not that novel and have been considered before, so maybe it have some merit. Never sure if this kind of stuff never get popular because was truly inferior or just because the industry standardized and killed innovation.

Anyway, is always a risk to experiment but that is part of the fun

[AMongoose]

How can I do that?

I meant i looked like it would do that by taking the parenthesis to the middle.

Oh, yeah, that is the idea. I was not thinking and do what "look" visually correct instead of do what is the default behaviour in a keyboard. Maybe instead of the up/down (where down is the default) can I do left/right (so it will look "(  )") to make it clear.

Side by side would be more clear than the way it is now, i would think.

[Niomosy]

Not bad but I think I like Microsoft's layout better in that prototype as they avoided going symmetric.  It's generally the first fault I find with any split matrix board is that they abandon reasonable locations for a handful of keys on the right hand in favor of symmetry. 

[mamcx]

reasonable locations for a handful of keys on the right hand in favor of symmetry.

I make it symmetric just as side-effect or looking for ways to optimize the punctuation keys. I don't actually know if is good/bad. Any info that show if a normal layout is way better than make it symmetric?

[davkol]

Well, your hands are probably symmetrical for starters. The only reason to avoid going symmetrical is "backward compatibility" (i.e., not messing with muscle memory, at least initially)).

Then, the decision is between a grid, symmetrically staggered rows, and some sort of a columnar layout. The latter is preferably, because human fingers don't have uniform length. If there's some (technical) reason to forgo some column stagger/contour, the remaining difference between a grid and a symmetrical row stagger is that some reasonable row offset may help with wrist angle (no big deal on a split keyboard though).

[Niomosy]

The layout isn't actually bad but not all symmetric matrix boards put thought into adding another full column to allow better arrangement of keys like this board has.  That it also has function keys also bumps it up.  Looking at the board, it has potential.  I'd shift 6 to the left and throw -_ back in its home more to the insane amount I use that and have the location in muscle memory.  Brackets moving aren't going to kill me as the new homes aren't bad.  Honestly it's got potential if it's going to be a split that can be or already is tented (oh how awesome a keyboard in a single case already tented/split would be).

I look forward to seeing where this one goes.

[dantan]

It is so typical of microsoft to have a good idea and not execute it because of some corporate departmental politics BS.

This is probably the best idea I have seen from them to date, unless you think Windows 10 free upgrade was a good idea.

If you haven't seen it already: Microsoft did once consider doing straight rows and columns. Here is a picture of an early prototype:
(Attachment Link)

I have not typed much on any keyboard that has a vertical Enter key as in your layout so I am curious to how it would feel. They used to be more common on typewriters, even IBM made a few computer keyboards with them  in the 1970s. Every one I have seen has no key in front of it though, or the key in front is significantly lower in height but I don't know if that is significant. If I were you, I would explore with and without a Ctrl key in front of it.

BTW. There are also keyboards with Shift keys like that: such as the TypeMatrix and the Maltron. Or for a really weird one that has both types, the Scythe ErgoDiver.