Author Topic: A 27" worth buying?  (Read 24760 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 10 July 2014, 17:31:25 »
the HP 27xi is a decent AH-IPS true glossy, which is "apple type" eyecandy and should be a bargain.... the only problem is that's only 1080p
So in other words, it’s only slightly fewer pixels (and therefore substantially worse pixel density) than the 23" display Apple released in 2002? (Or I think Dell & al. had similar ones in 2003–2004.)

Woo stagnant technology!

it's a balance between viewing distance  and  screen size  and resolution...



Offline jacobolus

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 10 July 2014, 18:01:00 »
it's a balance between viewing distance  and  screen size  and resolution...
Yep. And a 27" 1080p (that’s 82 ppi) display looks acceptable (in comparison to my “retina” laptop screen, 232 ppi) as long as it’s at least 5–6 feet away.

John Carmack was using a 28-inch 1080p display in 1995. It was great then. Not even close today.
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 July 2014, 18:07:03 by jacobolus »

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 11 July 2014, 06:11:46 »
it's a balance between viewing distance  and  screen size  and resolution...
Yep. And a 27" 1080p (that’s 82 ppi) display looks acceptable (in comparison to my “retina” laptop screen, 232 ppi) as long as it’s at least 5–6 feet away.

John Carmack was using a 28-inch 1080p display in 1995. It was great then. Not even close today.

A saw it in a documentary on ID software. How expensive must such a screen have been back then  :eek:
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 11:08:54 »
So, I've ordered the BenQ BL3200PT, which ships for € 599 here (inc. VAT) in the Netherlands. When it appears to be ok and I decide to keep it, I will order a x-rite i1display pro and calibrate it and post a review.

I like the fact that it has the same DPI as my 24" screen, deep blacks, awesome contrast, and no glow.

Crossing my fingers that OS X 10.9.4 fixed DisplayPort 1.2 issues so that the BL3200PT works...
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 11:15:46 »
So, I've ordered the BenQ BL3200PT, which ships for € 599 here (inc. VAT) in the Netherlands. When it appears to be ok and I decide to keep it, I will order a x-rite i1display pro and calibrate it and post a review.

I like the fact that it has the same DPI as my 24" screen, deep blacks, awesome contrast, and no glow.

Crossing my fingers that OS X 10.9.4 fixed DisplayPort 1.2 issues so that the BL3200PT works...

for $800, you could've gotten the ultimate gaming monitor by asus..  pg278q

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 11:25:15 »
Although I do occasional gaming, I'm less into gaming and more into software development, research / data analysis, and design. Consequently, I am more interested in real estate and color production than response times.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 12:10:42 »
Although I do occasional gaming, I'm less into gaming and more into software development, research / data analysis, and design. Consequently, I am more interested in real estate and color production than response times.

Do you do any PRINT work?  if not, color's not that important..  design wise, again, unless it goes out to print,  color only needs to be within range,  no need for accuracy

but... EVERYONE sees moving images on their screen..

below are snap shots of what moving images really look like on Monitors..


This is a moving image on EVERY non-lightboosted monitor TN, IPS, VA




These are the same moving images using Different levels of Lightboost, lower is better




The difference is STUNNING to say the least...   




Offline Coreda

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 17:39:52 »
These are the same moving images using Different levels of Lightboost, lower is better

The difference is STUNNING to say the least...

Unfortunately Lightboost can give some people headaches, and given the OP mentioned they were sensitive to PWM flicker it's something to consider. A PWM-free 120hz monitor would be a better option in that case (if one exists), although there may be a trade-off on color reproduction.

Offline Malphas

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 18:30:28 »
Eizo ColorEdge CG277 maybe?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 20 July 2014, 06:07:30 »
These are the same moving images using Different levels of Lightboost, lower is better

The difference is STUNNING to say the least...

Unfortunately Lightboost can give some people headaches, and given the OP mentioned they were sensitive to PWM flicker it's something to consider. A PWM-free 120hz monitor would be a better option in that case (if one exists), although there may be a trade-off on color reproduction.


Color reproduction is NOT USEFUL to anyone who does not do PRINT WORK..


Ontop of that,  You can turn lightboost OFF while doing your photoshop, and have a completely different color profile....   your graphics card will save your settings..

ALL that it takes to produce a GOOD LOOKING image,  is deep dark contrast, and bright whites..

BOTH attributes of which, are easily achievable on ANY modern monitors with basic calibration images..


The only difference in spec to look for today,, is the lightboost...


When we switched from CRTs,  we lost nearly ALL motion clarity..   Fast Motion are complete blurs.....


Finally we're getting motion back...


Offline davkol

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 20 July 2014, 15:37:51 »
Idk, there isn't much moving stuff, when I'm coding.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 20 July 2014, 16:02:00 »
Idk, there isn't much moving stuff, when I'm coding.

Your thoughts, I hope? :p OT: I agree. Of course, I watch movies. But I do not game. The most 'moving' stuff are shapes and vectors in Illustrator. And of course dragging windows comes to mind. But other than that, I don't think that I will notice it. Especially not as I started with a Samsung 172T back in the days and those had like 30ms input lag / response time (I always confuse the two). While I did notice the lag, it never bothered me, really. And that was in the times when CRTs were still omnipresent.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 20 July 2014, 16:40:36 »
Idk, there isn't much moving stuff, when I'm coding.

Your thoughts, I hope? :p OT: I agree. Of course, I watch movies. But I do not game. The most 'moving' stuff are shapes and vectors in Illustrator. And of course dragging windows comes to mind. But other than that, I don't think that I will notice it. Especially not as I started with a Samsung 172T back in the days and those had like 30ms input lag / response time (I always confuse the two). While I did notice the lag, it never bothered me, really. And that was in the times when CRTs were still omnipresent.



If you prefer a blurry lens on any and all motion images.. hey.. ...

Offline jacobolus

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 21 July 2014, 00:36:37 »
Color reproduction is NOT USEFUL to anyone who does not do PRINT WORK.. [...] ALL that it takes to produce a GOOD LOOKING image,  is deep dark contrast, and bright whites..
This is an absurd statement. For any kind of design or image work (video, photography, print design, web design, etc.) you want to have a wide enough gamut to match your output targets, consistent color from different angles so you don’t get weird differences between the center and corners when you look straight on, as dark blacks as you can manage while minimizing glare, enough brightness to overcome the ambient light in your environment (for critical work the room lights can be turned down), enough brightness levels for each primary to reproduce fine gradients, consistent color from day to day, simple enough color response from the primaries that you can build an accurate display characterization, a complete lack of artificial in-display image post processing (like extra “sharpness” or whatever), etc. etc.

You’d be surprised how much these properties can vary from one display to the next (especially cheaper ****tier “gamer” displays from a few years ago tended to have some really nasty artifacts; I’m not too familiar with ones from the last few years), and what a big impact it can have on doing fine color work.

The human eye can compensate for a whole lot, but that doesn’t mean that the characteristics of the display are irrelevant.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 21 July 2014, 02:58:41 »
Color reproduction is NOT USEFUL to anyone who does not do PRINT WORK.. [...] ALL that it takes to produce a GOOD LOOKING image,  is deep dark contrast, and bright whites..
This is an absurd statement. For any kind of design or image work (video, photography, print design, web design, etc.) you want to have a wide enough gamut to match your output targets, consistent color from different angles so you don’t get weird differences between the center and corners when you look straight on, as dark blacks as you can manage while minimizing glare, enough brightness to overcome the ambient light in your environment (for critical work the room lights can be turned down), enough brightness levels for each primary to reproduce fine gradients, consistent color from day to day, simple enough color response from the primaries that you can build an accurate display characterization, a complete lack of artificial in-display image post processing (like extra “sharpness” or whatever), etc. etc.

You’d be surprised how much these properties can vary from one display to the next (especially cheaper ****tier “gamer” displays from a few years ago tended to have some really nasty artifacts; I’m not too familiar with ones from the last few years), and what a big impact it can have on doing fine color work.

The human eye can compensate for a whole lot, but that doesn’t mean that the characteristics of the display are irrelevant.

Sure, it will look GREAT on YOUR display..  and it will even look good on MY display..

but guess what.. REST OF THE WORLD.. they don't even know about brightness and contrast..  let alone gamma..

Again I reiterate..   If you do NOT do print work..   you do not need ACCURATE  colors..

All you need is good calibration on ANY monitor...   END OF STORY...





Sean wrona can kick ur ass on any keyboard

Mvp will rape you in SC2 using a single core cpu doing 15fps.

A good graphics designer can use any god damn monitor, and produce good work..


Accurate colors are only important when they need to be reproduced in print.. If the target is OTHER monitors.. you can NEVER guarantee the monitor your work will be viewed on short of (internal demo) will be calibrated the same..

Ontop of that,, MOST monitors out there are TN...   if you want to at all produce work that would TARGET  more similar monitors.. 

Logically, YOU SHOULD be using TN...   

YOUR PREFERENCE, and how YOU THINK it should look like is irrelevant, if your work is to be viewed through the LENS of computers OTHER THAN YOUR OWN...




So again accurate colors, is Neither useful Nor required outside of Print..







I find people who are always shouting IPS,  are the same people who love to say KMAC > QFR


COMPLETE BULL****...   the same people who can't even type over 100wpm..   the same people who has only used photoshop to make memes once a week....

Monitor Elitism.. That's your blight...   trying to infect others, convinced of your superiority in materialism..

Offline jacobolus

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 21 July 2014, 04:10:25 »
but guess what.. REST OF THE WORLD.. they don't even know about brightness and contrast..  let alone gamma..

Again I reiterate..   If you do NOT do print work..   you do not need ACCURATE  colors..
If you want to do work for low-bandwidth video, the web, mobile devices, computer games, etc., then you should aim for a display that has a gamut that at least covers all of sRGB with at least 8 bits/channel, and has other desirable properties like consistent color corner-to-corner and a display characterization that stays good for a long time before you need to re-characterize.

Most top-quality recent mobile devices are getting to be pretty close to sRGB (e.g. iPhones, 10" iPads, lots of Android phones and tablets). The official spec for televisions is the same primaries as sRGB. The official spec for the web is sRGB, and browsers that properly handle that spec are going to be interpreting CSS/HTML colors as sRGB.

Anyone who has a device that (a) doesn’t do proper color management, and (b) is far from sRGB is going to be getting a ****ty experience pretty much no matter what you do, so it’s not worth worrying about those people.

If you are doing video work for cinema, if you are doing professional photography, print design, designing color for industrial purposes, etc., then you probably have more sophisticated needs. Often a larger color gamut and more bits/pixel are very helpful features, especially when working on intermediate editing steps before your final rendering.

Good calibration doesn’t help much at all if your display black isn’t dark enough (e.g. the display reflects too much ambient light), if your color is inconsistent from one part of the display to another, if the color drifts from day to day, if the color changes depending on viewing angle, if you don’t have enough bits/color channel to show fine color distinctions, if your primaries are too far off from standard so that colors you care about are out of gamut, etc. etc.

Quote
Sean wrona can kick ur ass on any keyboard
Mvp will rape you in SC2 using a single core cpu doing 15fps.
A good graphics designer can use any god damn monitor, and produce good work..
So what? Usain Bolt probably runs faster than you when he’s wearing high heels, and I’m sure Federer would beat you at tennis using a dinner plate for a racket. That doesn’t mean you should try to do the same.

For what it’s worth, I’m almost certainly better than you at doing color correction in Photoshop when I’m using a display that only handles grayscale and you can use an Eizo. That doesn’t mean the display is completely irrelevant.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 July 2014, 04:15:43 by jacobolus »

Offline Coreda

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 21 July 2014, 05:18:11 »
So again accurate colors, is Neither useful Nor required outside of Print..

I find people who are always shouting IPS,  are the same people who love to say KMAC > QFR

Monitor Elitism.. That's your blight...   trying to infect others, convinced of your superiority in materialism..

TP, dude, it's okay. You don't want a monitor with accurate colors? That's fine, but no need to harp on about it just because apparently you prefer TN panels.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 21 July 2014, 10:41:18 »
So again accurate colors, is Neither useful Nor required outside of Print..

I find people who are always shouting IPS,  are the same people who love to say KMAC > QFR

Monitor Elitism.. That's your blight...   trying to infect others, convinced of your superiority in materialism..

TP, dude, it's okay. You don't want a monitor with accurate colors? That's fine, but no need to harp on about it just because apparently you prefer TN panels.

My 3007wfphc is just fine.. tankyouberrymuch..  <-the only reason I have it is because I was young once, and didn't know anything about monitors and Read reviews by stupid monitor elitist people like yourself,...... but if I were to buy a new monitor today, I'd go for Lightboosted TN.

I don't PREFER or DISAPPROVE of TN or IPS..

THEY have their uses....   For anyone outside of Print, and people doing professional transfers..  TN is perfectly ENOUGH...




Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 14:40:24 »
The good thing about IPS/PLS, *VA, and etc becoming more common is they are becoming cheaper and cheaper and replacing TN. They are also getting faster and faster. Soon we will have low cost displays with both 'good' color reproduction and quick response with high Hz, with adaptive sync over DP so don't even worry about it. It really shouldn't have to be an either or choice. Personally I have found games to be quite a LOT more enjoyable with more accurate colors on my IPS. I don't mind trading off not being able to run some games at 120+ fps. I am far from a competitive player but I feel being able to accurately see what the **** is going on due to having a good display where I can see the difference between several dark colors well has certainly improved my experience. I also do design work and etc so I have further uses for more accurate color but we already know all about why that is a good thing.
So in short I consider you to be entirely wrong when it comes to gaming. Good color reproduction can give you an edge as well.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 05:08:11 »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 10:23:05 »
Here we go:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8496/dell-previews-27inch-5k-ultrasharp-monitor-5120x2880

27" 5120x2880 (218 ppi)

I question the necessity of such high res @ that size..

I mean.. it's awesome, totally..

but....

when are they going to give me 4k blurays,, seriously, I'm still waiting on that..

Offline Matt3o

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 10:40:38 »
holy dead pixels, batman!

Offline Coreda

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 00:11:57 »
when are they going to give me 4k blurays,, seriously, I'm still waiting on that..

Holidays 2015.

Offline tbc

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Re: A 27" worth buying?
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 00:22:29 »
holy dead pixels, batman!

i'm completely convinced that you would never find a dead pixel that small...
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