MX Red Switches for Typing?

[czarek]

Well I have multiple keyboard within my reach all the time. I also have one ErgoDox with all possible MX Switches and combinations of springs (stock Cherry and Korean) to play around.  I actually rotate 2 ErgoDoxes sometimes - one has stock MX Blues and one has the ghetto reds I mentioned earlier (case and stem is from Vintage MX Black and springs are from MX Blues). I can tell you exactly what the feel is when you switch between those combinations.

When switching from Red to Blue:
At first it feels harsh, almost hurting fingers with the tactility, and makes my ears bleed because of the noise. After few hours my hands get used to them and they feel really good. They have nice mechanical character and make me type pretty fast and without errors. Weighting is also nice, not tiring at all. In short, I could call this experience to be: CRISPY

When switching from Blue to Red (I remind you - those are smoother than standard Reds, they use Vintage Blacks as base, you can probably achieve this with lube):
From the beginning I feel amazing smoothness and cushiony bottoming out (this ErgoDox doesn't have metal plate for switches, MX Blue one has), also there is almost no sound, and whatever sounds are left, are actually quite soothing. There is almost no force required to activate keys, muscle memory from typing on MX Blues stops me from bottoming out and I can type really fast and fluid without errors. This experience can e described as: CREAMY

I also like stock Vintage Blacks - they're not too tiring at all, but I found that it's quite hard to get those switches to be consistent across the board since they're usually heavily used. I also have NIB Cherry boards from early 1990s but the springs are not that consistent as in new keyboards.

[aref]

Interesting comments; thanks for posting them. I wish I had an MX Brown keyboard to compare with my MX Red switches. I have to guess that MX Brown switches feel close to Reds; but never having done a side-by-side comparison, I can only speculate. I'm sure if I had stayed with the Blue keyboard, I'd have become accustomed to it. I used to use MX Blues almost exclusively. But after trying and getting used to MX Reds, I've come to prefer the switch's lighter required down-force along with the feel of a linear switch. My 55g Topre isn't linear, but it feels close to a linear switch; its slight tactility is barely perceptible to me. And even with the difference in switch weighting and type, I can make smooth transitions from Topre to MX Red or the reverse. Thus far, my 55-gram Topre and MX Red are my go-to keyboards.

Later-in-the-day update: MX Red/MX Brown
As fortune would have it, I made a few phone calls and I am getting my hands on a CMQFR/MX Brown to check out tomorrow, Saturday. I'll be able to do a comparison with my MX Reds.
I'm curious to see how Browns fare (for me), and which of the two switches is preferable. I've used MX Brown keyboards, but I've not had an opportunity to do a side-by-side comparison.

[rowdy]

You might find that MX brown just feels like a gritty red.  This is my impression from several switch testers.

[davkol]

There's supposedly a bit difference between NIB and broken-in browns... and definitely stock versus properly lubed browns. I admit browns *can* feel good, but it's not easy to achieve that.

[raditz visnar]

hahaha...last time i used red cherry for typing i didn't feel like typing...for me for typing i prefer blue, and for gaming i prefer black or brown....

[zig_ziglar]

With such variety of opinions, it's starting to sound like it might just be a matter of personal preference?!   

[Coreda]

I doon't know about you guisse, but Redds are perfectt for typing.

[aref]

The CMQFR/MX Brown is here. I've been using it for about 15 minutes only. Early impressions are: MX Browns don’t feel at all gritty to me. They feel like a slightly but noticeably heavier version of MX Red switches. But noticeably lighter than MX Blues, and to me more fluid. The tactile bump is noticeable, but it's really slight, far less noticeable than an MX Blue switch. Will I prefer them to MX Reds? I’ll use them exclusively today and see how the keyboard and I fare. Thus far, I like the feel. I had been thinking about getting an MX Red KB and putting in heavier springs; but the Browns may negate making a change in stock Red switches.

I had an MX Brown a couple years ago and didn't care for the lighter switch--my preference for switches has changed. The added required down-force of MX Browns feels, how do I say this?, pleasurable to actuate. The added resistance throughout each key's travel may make for more accurate typing (for me). The sound level of this keyboard compared with the MX Red KB is about the same, except I seem to be bottoming out less with Browns. This may be attributable to the tactile bump. Not until using a linear switch did I realize how a tactile bump might prevent one from bottoming-out key strikes. But it's early in the day for me, and after writing for several hours, I may be bottoming out all my key strikes. The MX Browns are much quieter than the Blues I tried, thank you, Cherry.

I've some writing/editing to do today; so this keyboard will get a good one-day workout. If I like it, I'll buy it. The guy wants $55 for it. It looks new and was packaged as new. In fact, after using it for the day, it's now used and I will buy it. Done.

I agree with zig_ziglar: key switches are a matter of personal preference. For me, the 55g Topre is one keyboard that I prefer and is always on my desk; and the other keyboard, if not my MX Red, it may be this MX Brown. Regardless, I'll keep the K65/MX Red keyboard--I like MX Red switches.

[fatmav]

I doon't know about you guisse, but Redds are perfectt for typing.

LOL.

But seriously, Red on a concave layout (such as the one on a Kinesis) feels extremely usable for typing and I rarely (if ever) run into double-taps, which is a frequent problem for me on a flat Red layout. Thus, although it turned out I still prefer Brown in Kinesis, I have to acknowledge Red in Kinesis is very good too. If you ever test out Kinesis, be sure to check out Red over there.

[aref]

I had to delete my original post I had posted here. I continue to go back to the
MX Brown keyboard; so the comparison is incomplete. I thought I had made my
decision, only to return to the keyboard I was going to dismiss, CMQFR/MX Brown.
Looks like I have to return to the MX Brown keyboard another time for another go.
MX Red or MX Brown? Good question. Perhaps Methinks both.

Later the same evening:
Methinking was wrong, tainted MX Brown. The keyboard began throwing out random
characters and wouldn't accept some commands like Caps at the beginning of a sentence.
As I told a friend on GH, my fingers feel like lead from all the re-do work. Done! Browns are
gone, gone forever. Obviously, the keyboard is defective; and the guy I got it from knows
that I know. So instead than giving him $55 on Monday, he's getting back is defective KB.
I really dislike when guys sell you something they know isn't right. Party's over, it's back
to the fluidity of MX Red switches.

MX Reds for typing? Yes! End-use for this CMQFR/MX Brown keyboard: speed bump.

It may be that MX Red switches are closing in on my 55g Topres for most favored key switch, which
borders heresy on Geekhack--so it goes. MX Red switches in a K65... linear goodness at the ready.

[radio_killah]

New guy around here. I've used MX browns and blues, and I am interested in reds but I am not sure how they compare. I am currently on a filco mj2 with blues and for gaming I don't like the fact that I have to release my finger quite a bit to get the switch to reset which was why I am looking at reds. Is the cleaning of typing clean and crisp like on blues? I used a FC660M with browns before my filco but as soon as I typed on the blues, the browns just felt mushy and weird. Are reds anything like that?

[Rafen]

New guy around here. I've used MX browns and blues, and I am interested in reds but I am not sure how they compare. I am currently on a filco mj2 with blues and for gaming I don't like the fact that I have to release my finger quite a bit to get the switch to reset which was why I am looking at reds. Is the cleaning of typing clean and crisp like on blues? I used a FC660M with browns before my filco but as soon as I typed on the blues, the browns just felt mushy and weird. Are reds anything like that?

Typing on reds are very fast and fluent. You can just barley touch the keys and they register so easily. This is perfect for what you are looking for and help greatly when it comes to typing fatigue. I spent about a year typing on them and absolutely love them.  Actually decided to try Topre ( which is my new favorite switch), but reds are my favorite cherry mx switch by far. I would highly recommend typing on them before you buy if you can.

[zig_ziglar]

I've been using reds exclusively on my home (gaming) PC for a few months now. For me at least, I think the grass eventually seems greener. I'm starting to yearn for my browns again (will have to fix that board up).

[Rafen]

I've been using reds exclusively on my home (gaming) PC for a few months now. For me at least, I think the grass eventually seems greener. I'm starting to yearn for my browns again (will have to fix that board up).

They are a great switch but I agree. I didn't know how much I missed the tactile feedback until I got this Topre. They don't give you the same "bump" like a brown or a blue but more of a tactile feeling when you bottom out. Typing on this over the weekend has really made me want to stay with this switch.

[Altis]

.... as soon as I typed on the blues, the browns just felt mushy and weird. Are reds anything like that?

The reds are light and smooth to the bottom. I know what you mean about the mushy feel of browns... I find the tactile bump in browns can sometimes feel more like roughness than tactile; ie, it's not tactile enough to feel deliberate, almost as if it's a flaw. I still include them in the rotation though because, well, I'm an addict. 

[zig_ziglar]

The bump in clears is more pronounced, isn't it? Could you re-spring clears with springs from reds/browns and end up with browns with a more deliberate feeling tactility? OR would the bump interfere with the reset at those lighter spring rates?

[radio_killah]

I've been using reds exclusively on my home (gaming) PC for a few months now. For me at least, I think the grass eventually seems greener. I'm starting to yearn for my browns again (will have to fix that board up).

They are a great switch but I agree. I didn't know how much I missed the tactile feedback until I got this Topre. They don't give you the same "bump" like a brown or a blue but more of a tactile feeling when you bottom out. Typing on this over the weekend has really made me want to stay with this switch.

I mean I have now since tried brown switches on 2 keyboards and blues on 1. My first mx brown board which was a max keyboard was a good experience, since those browns felt a little more tactile than my second mx brown board which was on a fc660m. The leopold just felt really mushy compared to the clean tactile bump on the blues.

.... as soon as I typed on the blues, the browns just felt mushy and weird. Are reds anything like that?

The reds are light and smooth to the bottom. I know what you mean about the mushy feel of browns... I find the tactile bump in browns can sometimes feel more like roughness than tactile; ie, it's not tactile enough to feel deliberate, almost as if it's a flaw. I still include them in the rotation though because, well, I'm an addict. 

Yeah I have read a lot of people saying browns are like a broken red switch. Also I hope I don't become an addict my wallet will hate me haha

[fatmav]

New guy around here. I've used MX browns and blues, and I am interested in reds but I am not sure how they compare. I am currently on a filco mj2 with blues and for gaming I don't like the fact that I have to release my finger quite a bit to get the switch to reset which was why I am looking at reds. Is the cleaning of typing clean and crisp like on blues? I used a FC660M with browns before my filco but as soon as I typed on the blues, the browns just felt mushy and weird. Are reds anything like that?

It will hard for Red to match the crispness of your Blue MJ2. Red is smooth, but so smooth that it has very little feedback. There is a bit of tactileness when your finger meets a key's surface, and then it's smooth all the way down until you hit the bottom, at which point what you feel depends on your typing style. I try not to bottom out on Red, but I still touch the bottom most of the time except that my finger is already in the deceleration phase and thus it's a soft-landing.

For stock switches, the folk wisdom that "blue is better for text/code, red is better for games, and brown is a nice all-rounder" is about as accurate as it can get.

[aref]

Topre's 55-gram has a unique and different feel when compared with Cherry MX-series and buckling-spring switches. It is an exceptional key-switch with great feel. I like my Topre and will keep it, but after a few hours of writing, my fingers fatigue (perhaps because of my age), which is when I use my MX Red keyboard. However, lately there have been days when I've used my MX Red keyboard exclusively. I think the primary complaint about Reds is that they actuate too easily. And there are days when I type more efficiently with my 55-gram 87UB--it's a keyboarder's conundrum. Today is a Topre day.

Switches are dependent on one's personal preference; and the only way to know if Reds are right for you, is to get an MX Red keyboard and give it a go. When I first got this keyboard, it took about two weeks to learn/understand the feel of MX Reds in order to type accurately with them.

[aref]

I had to recant this post. Mea culpa.

I had to recant this post about not being able to find my feel with MX Reds today; I was making
a lot of typos this morning and seemed to have lost my feel for Reds. The problem: I had slightly
elevated the space-bar edge of the keyboard as a trial-elevation,  but had forgotten that I left the
thicker feet, 1/4", in place. As soon as I recalled what I had done, I removed the trial feet and the
Reds are working for me as before. No more space-bar-edge-elevation trials--lesson learned.

[aref]

Changing to contoured or concave key caps

I made a discovery, for me, that has improved, markedly, the feel and accuracy in my MX Red switches. I just started a thread under Keyboard Key Caps: Key-Cap Contour Can Make a Signicant Difference in Keyboard Feel   that discusses the improvement in feel when I changed my stock key caps for a more contoured or concave set from an old Leopold TKL. The switches performance and my accuracy/speed have improved. My MX Red keyboard went from great to fantastic. The stock key caps were somewhat concave; but these Leopold TKL caps, perhaps two-year old but unused, are more concave and each cap better aligns and centers one's fingers.

By comparison, one that may be common to many of us, CMQFR's key caps are flatter than Filco and Leopold's TKL caps. I had liked CMQFR's key caps and the stock caps on my K65; this is until I tried these more concave key caps--the difference is incredible.

[jdcarpe]

Changing to contoured or concave key caps

I made a discovery, for me, that has improved, markedly, the feel and accuracy in my MX Red switches. I just started a thread under Keyboard Key Caps: Key-Cap Contour Can Make a Signicant Difference in Keyboard Feel   that discusses the improvement in feel when I changed my stock key caps for a more contoured or concave set from an old Leopold TKL. The switches performance and my accuracy/speed have improved. My MX Red keyboard went from great to fantastic. The stock key caps were somewhat concave; but these Leopold TKL caps, perhaps two-year old but unused, are more concave and each cap better aligns and centers one's fingers.

By comparison, one that may be common to many of us, CMQFR's key caps are flatter than Filco and Leopold's TKL caps. I had liked CMQFR's key caps and the stock caps on my K65; this is until I tried these more concave key caps--the difference is incredible.

And people wonder why I dislike DSA profile caps.

Also, Reds are great for typing. I use them and Blacks interchangeably. But my true preference is for something right in between the two, meaning 65g Korean springs.

[aref]

Changing to contoured or concave key caps

I made a discovery, for me, that has improved, markedly, the feel and accuracy in my MX Red switches. I just started a thread under Keyboard Key Caps: Key-Cap Contour Can Make a Signicant Difference in Keyboard Feel   that discusses the improvement in feel when I changed my stock key caps for a more contoured or concave set from an old Leopold TKL. The switches performance and my accuracy/speed have improved. My MX Red keyboard went from great to fantastic. The stock key caps were somewhat concave; but these Leopold TKL caps, perhaps two-year old but unused, are more concave and each cap better aligns and centers one's fingers.

By comparison, one that may be common to many of us, CMQFR's key caps are flatter than Filco and Leopold's TKL caps. I had liked CMQFR's key caps and the stock caps on my K65; this is until I tried these more concave key caps--the difference is incredible.

And people wonder why I dislike DSA profile caps.

Also, Reds are great for typing. I use them and Blacks interchangeably. But my true preference is for something right in between the two, meaning 65g Korean springs.

I agree. I'd love to see Cherry produce one more linear switch between their 45g and 60g switch. I was thinking today if they made a 53g linear, how sweet a switch would this be? A 65g Korean spring Cherry? Sign me up. I am into these concave key caps. I couldn't resist and ordered a set from WASD this evening. I've got two K65/MX Red KBs; and I can't see not having concave switches on both board. I'm with the man from Odessa. I spent some time in San Angelo many years ago--I loved West Texas.

[zig_ziglar]

I guess it's personal preference, but I'm 100% with you guys. Typing on unsculpted profiles feels absolutely horrible to me. The fact that I have short fingers might contribute - I'm not sure. The profile used by WASD is classified as "OEM", even though oem stands for original manufacturer and some manufacturers offer different profiles. Silly.

This profile is pretty much the same as appears on the good old IBM Model M, except that the M uses a concave plate, rather than different keep cap angles. Such genius.

[aref]

I guess it's personal preference, but I'm 100% with you guys. Typing on unsculpted profiles feels absolutely horrible to me. The fact that I have short fingers might contribute - I'm not sure. The profile used by WASD is classified as "OEM", even though oem stands for original manufacturer and some manufacturers offer different profiles. Silly.

This profile is pretty much the same as appears on the good old IBM Model M, except that the M uses a concave plate, rather than different keep cap angles. Such genius.

I used to use Model M keyboards. The IBM manufactured Model Ms are still great KBs; and the key caps have a comfortable concave profile with a natural feel. With the exception of IBM's use of plastic rivets, the Model M was early keyboard perfection. I can't use BS switches because of the required down force. It's too great for aging digits. These days I'm using MX Red keyboards exclusively and I quite like the feel of this light-action linear switch. I'd like to try double-shot concave caps. I have a set of WASD caps on the way. I'll give a key-cap update after I get them. I've two K65 keyboards; I'll keep these Leopold concave caps on one; and install WASD's on the other. I'll be able to do a same-keyboard comparison. If WASD's caps are that good, I may have to order a second set. I had a set of Filco key caps that I gave to a friend; they had concave surfaces and felt pretty good for typing.

[aref]

My bad: upon further examination of a single Leopold key cap, I can see they are cylindrical, not spherical. Concave, contoured, yes; but cylindrical. Had it not been for JDCarpe expansive explanations and tricheboars setting me on a seach, I'd have been looking for the incorrect profile. Thank you very much, guys.

And on a positive note, it looks like the WASD caps I ordered may work for me.

[zig_ziglar]

I believe the keycap shape does depend on which Leopold keyboard in particular you're referring to. Take the F700R for example, the key shape is the same as model m, but the profile is a shorter version of OEM - still the same angles, but not as tall.

And I'm with you on the M - my arthritic fingers are suffering from its use, but it's just so nice so I'm struggling to let go of it as a daily at work.

[aref]

I believe the keycap shape does depend on which Leopold keyboard in particular you're referring to. Take the F700R for example, the key shape is the same as model m, but the profile is a shorter version of OEM - still the same angles, but not as tall.

And I'm with you on the M - my arthritic fingers are suffering from its use, but it's just so nice so I'm struggling to let go of it as a daily at work.

I feel your pain. I went through a period where I wouldn't stop using the SSKs I had; and finally, my keyboard time was so curtailed because of the BS switches, I had to admit that it was time to move on. I also found that my 55g 87UB was a bit too heavy for extended periods of typing; I've had to put it up for sale. I was thinking of another MX Blue KB, just for a change in feel. But I can use MX Red switches all day with no aching fingers. I've nothing but praise for Reds, even though I occasionally find myself going through typing errors' thing. Red do call for mindful finger placement. All the BS switches I've used, IBM/Lexmark/Unicomp, have brought about discomfort. I've had to eliminate them forever.

Forgot to mention: these Leopold key caps are off an FC200R keyboard. I have a sense that Leopold may be deleting this series in favor of the 700 series TKLs.

[aref]

My WASD key caps came in today's post. I love the way they feel. They are much nicer ABS caps than many of the stock caps I've had. $47 is pricy for ABS, but WASD does a fine job of molding, I would guess injection molded, these caps and printing the key-caps' legends. I may have to buy a second set for my other K65--these are nice caps. They also fit snugly on the MX-switch stems. I can see why WASD does a good key-cap business. They may only be ABS, but they are nicely made ABS caps. Kudos to WASD. I placed more detailed comments under Key-Cap Contour Can Make a Signicant Difference in Keyboard Feel in Keyboard Key Caps.

[Tony]

My accuracy suffers when typing with reds, but I can live with them.

If I can reach 100% accuracy on red, it's faster than brown of course.

[lakiozoon]

I started learning touch-typing on CM QFR with reds few months ago.
So far i can get to max 80 wpm, 60 on average.
I tried to learn so i don't bottom out often. First it seemed impossible but now i'm getting the hang of it.

What is interesting in my case is, more i type, more i bottom out. After i take a small break, a minute or so, i type smoothly without bottoming the strokes. After a while the smoothness is gone until i take the next break.

Any tips?

[fatmav]

The following goes against some ergonomic advices I read, but I find a substantial improvement in not bottoming-out on lighter switches when I rest my wrists on a tall foam rest and pop up my keyboard (I mean the effect of popping up the legs at the back of the keyboard). The wrist rest makes the keyboard more or less a stationary target in the vertical axis relative to my hands, and the angle reduces the distance that my wrists have to move in the the back and forth axis.

Once you do this, you may very quickly notice that my biggest enemy on a standard layout: backspace. On a flat red, it is pretty much the only reason I have to un-anchor my wrists in normal typing. (Truly Ergonomic solved that problem for me when I was trying it, though it had other problems...)

P.S. I don't use flat red regularly anymore. For red, I switched to Kinesis (which is not flat) and it really shines over there. The foam rest I use is 3M WR209MB. It looks super ugly when paired with a TKL, but trust me the comfort it delivers is unparalleled.

[aref]

The following goes against some ergonomic advices I read, but I find a substantial improvement in not bottoming-out on lighter switches when I rest my wrists on a tall foam rest and pop up my keyboard (I mean the effect of popping up the legs at the back of the keyboard). The wrist rest makes the keyboard more or less a stationary target in the vertical axis relative to my hands, and the angle reduces the distance that my wrists have to move in the the back and forth axis.

Once you do this, you may very quickly notice that my biggest enemy on a standard layout: backspace. On a flat red, it is pretty much the only reason I have to un-anchor my wrists in normal typing. (Truly Ergonomic solved that problem for me when I was trying it, though it had other problems...)

P.S. I don't use flat red regularly anymore. For red, I switched to Kinesis (which is not flat) and it really shines over there. The foam rest I use is 3M WR209MB. It looks super ugly when paired with a TKL, but trust me the comfort it delivers is unparalleled.

I use, stack, 1/4" felt pads to fine-tune a keyboard's elevation. My hands kind of float over the keyboard with my elbows resting on the arms of my chair. This works for me on my flat keyboard. I've never tried a Kinesis. Bottoming-out is a leftover from my manual typewriter years. There are times my key strikes are less forceful; but I don't pay special attention to the depth of my key strokes. I had to revise this response because I'm changed the pitch of my keyboard. 3/4" elevation under the F-key edge, and stock height under the space-bar edge.

[aref]

Red O-Rings for MX Red Switches

I sold my Topre keyboards in favor of my K65/MX Red keyboards (2x)--the fluid feel of this linear switch is, for me, unmatched. I tried black o-rings on an MX Blue keyboard I had and disliked the .4mm reduction in key travel. The red o-rings reduce key travel by only .2mm, which still delivers good depth to each key strike. The positives with the addition of the .2mm o-rings are many: my typing speed has increased; I have fewer typos (or so I think); of course, key strokes are quieter without being dead silent, so there continues to be aural feedback, which I like; and I'm bottoming out let less forcefully. I think the quiet has affected key-strike force for me--and the softer bottom-out landing is preferable to hard-surface landings--I know, stop bottoming out; well, that's easier said than done. Also, the space bar (Cherry stabilizer) on the K65 is noisier than the KB's other switches; therefore, I doubled the o-rings, .4mm total, under the space bar for the switch and the two stabilizer fittings. I don't know if there's a difference among manufacturer's red o-rings; for the record, I bought these from WASD via Amazon.

I'll state the obvious: I'm posting this to praise the addition of red o-rings to MX Red switches. For me, they have improved what is a great feeling key switch for typing. I usually prefer full-key travel; but the .2mm reduction in travel hasn't still leaves a excellent key travel, perhaps even improved, unlike the black o-rings I had tried. As I said, when I first tried red o-rings, I disliked them; but I was only about a week into using these switches. Now that I've weeks of using MX Red switches, I appreciate Red-on-Red. My search for an MX switch that performs for me is over; and with the addition of red o-rings, hours of typing has improved in feel, aural feedback, and maintaining speed as a day wears on. Today is the first full day I've used the keyboard with o-rings. I'll see how this goes over the next few days; but I have no reason to think there will be a decrement in performance or feel. Now I have to 'do up' the other K65 with red o-rings.

[Sorun]

I gave up on my reds for daily use and only used them for gaming. Now a day I barely bother using them. It's mostly just a nice show piece  I got propped up on my side desk all dolled up with a nice keycap setup and custom case.

[aref]

MX Red Switches/Red O-Rings, Day Two

After using MX Red switches with red o-rings for another day, the combination feels exceptionally comfortable and even more fluid than the bare switch, which may be attributable to a slightly abbreviated key stroke. If there was a learning curve in relation to the key switch's feel, it came about in little time. I tried my other K65 sans red o-rings; and although the bare switch feels good, the addition of red o-rings has, for me, improved the switch's overall feel and action. The shorter key-stroke feels more natural to me and less like driving my fingers into the keyboard (I bottom-out my key strokes); and I'm  subconsciously less force to actuate each switch.

[ideus]

I use red for typing everyday, and they are a pleasure to type on. I am planning to add red o rings that if I remember well are 40.

[aref]

I use red for typing everyday, and they are a pleasure to type on. I am planning to add red o rings that if I remember well are 40.

The o-rings are listed as 40A-L, 0.2mm thickness. They are the softest among red, blue, and black o-rings, and the thinnest. Blue and Black o-rings are firmer, black is the firmest, and both are 0.4mm thick, which diminishes key travel too much for me; and each key lands much harder than red o-rings. The difference in MX Red switches with red o-rings makes this switch so much more efficient and more pleasurable to use. If you add them to your switches, I'b be curious to know what you think of them.

[ceflame]

After using MX Red switches with red o-rings for another day, the combination feels exceptionally comfortable and even more fluid than the bare switch, which may be attributable to a slightly abbreviated key stroke.

My thoughts exactly. Typing with o-rings on MX Reds is one of the best experiences ever.

Can you elaborate on the difference in fluidity compared to Topre switches? I have yet to type extensively on a Topre keyboard (tried one briefly in Japan), but was looking to get one sooner or later.

[tp4tissue]

After using MX Red switches with red o-rings for another day, the combination feels exceptionally comfortable and even more fluid than the bare switch, which may be attributable to a slightly abbreviated key stroke.

My thoughts exactly. Typing with o-rings on MX Reds is one of the best experiences ever.

Can you elaborate on the difference in fluidity compared to Topre switches? I have yet to type extensively on a Topre keyboard (tried one briefly in Japan), but was looking to get one sooner or later.

There is no difference in fluidity between any switch..

Fluid key transitions the user's responsibility..

Once you get used to the timing differences between switches..  you can be equally fluid on ANY switch...

[ceflame]

After using MX Red switches with red o-rings for another day, the combination feels exceptionally comfortable and even more fluid than the bare switch, which may be attributable to a slightly abbreviated key stroke.

My thoughts exactly. Typing with o-rings on MX Reds is one of the best experiences ever.

Can you elaborate on the difference in fluidity compared to Topre switches? I have yet to type extensively on a Topre keyboard (tried one briefly in Japan), but was looking to get one sooner or later.

There is no difference in fluidity between any switch..

Fluid key transitions the user's responsibility..

Once you get used to the timing differences between switches..  you can be equally fluid on ANY switch...

Heh, I guess I've heard one too many people with Topre switches blaring out that Topre feels far smoother than any Cherry switch.

[ViciousWhiskers]

Seems like I've missed this thread earlier for some reason. Here's my input however: Typing on Red switches feel great and natural for me. I can easily achieve 110+ WPM without errors on Reds, and I bottom out all the time (a preference a bad habit). The typical "reds are more prone to typing errors" doesn't apply to me, so it really is subjective to each person.

[D01]

When I'm tired I make a few more mistakes with reds.  My second favorite switch.

[aref]

How one perceives a switch's feel is subjective.

Fluidity: I'm not referring to the transition between keys; I am referring to the action of the switch. The slightly reduced travel makes for a more 'fluid' feel for me; and the softer landing adds to the feel of the switch when I bottom out, which is with each key stroke. Red o-rings have, for me, enhanced overall feel of this linear switch. When adding o-rings to a stock switch can make a significant 'perceived' difference, it's worth sharing one's overview.

I've come to prefer linear switches for their uninterrupted key stroke, i.e., no tactile bump interrupting each key stroke. Not everyone feels that a tactile bump is an interruption; but for it is. And the additon of red o-rings have, for me, refined the feel of a great key switch.

I've used MX Greens, and they are not, for me, a fluid key switch. And those who prefer MX Red switches may not fine MX Green switches agreeable. Same for Topre. I've owned 45g and 55g Topre keyboards. And for me, my MX Red keyboards outperform (in smoothness of key strokes and comfort) the Topre-switch keyboards I've owned.

As I said, key-switch feel is subjective.

[davkol]

Smooth? #vintage MX Black master race

[tp4tissue]

Smooth? #vintage MX Black master race

I honestly don't think well-used-blacks are much outperformed by vintage-blacks  in smooth slidage..

[davkol]

It's been here before... Not all #vintage switches are created equal, but when some are indeed better, they're consistently better across the board. That would be difficult to achieve in case of breaking in by use.

[aref]

It's been here before... Not all #vintage switches are created equal, but when some are indeed better, they're consistently better across the board. That would be difficult to achieve in case of breaking in by use.

What is the difference between vintage Blacks and newer Black switches? I've tried only the newer MX Blacks, and they felt too heavy for long-term typing.

[davkol]

Ideally, they're much smoother, like filled with a liquid. There isn't the plastic-on-plastic friction, that is obvious (at least to me) on other switches, when pressed slowly.

It appears that Cherry Corp. used different materials/molds over time, but not consistently. Old switches often had bigger logos, but not always—there are even reports of different logos together on one keyboard. Then there are Nixdorf vintage blacks with clear housings. I've seen at least two kinds of spring materials in MX switches; BTW Cherry Corp. reportedly changed spring material in MX Blue, there's a thread about it at DT. However, my hypothesis is that the smooth vintage blacks used a different kind of plastic.

[aref]

Ideally, they're much smoother, like filled with a liquid. There isn't the plastic-on-plastic friction, that is obvious (at least to me) on other switches, when pressed slowly.

It appears that Cherry Corp. used different materials/molds over time, but not consistently. Old switches often had bigger logos, but not always—there are even reports of different logos together on one keyboard. Then there are Nixdorf vintage blacks with clear housings. I've seen at least two kinds of spring materials in MX switches; BTW Cherry Corp. reportedly changed spring material in MX Blue, there's a thread about it at DT. However, my hypothesis is that the smooth vintage blacks used a different kind of plastic.

It sounds as if Cherry changed the molds and the plastics used in the switch. Companies will occasionally omit pricey plastics additives that enhance 'slip' to their material to cut cost and, what generally follows, increase profit. Also, from what you had to say, Cherry may have used different molds to, I would guess, injection mold their switches' plastics parts.

Thanks for your explanation of vintage Black switches--I find this interesting. The Blacks with greater 'slip' are a a switch I might have liked; I prefer linear to tactile key switches. It may be the days of the smoothness of vintage Blacks is in the past, just like the old air-cooled, vintage, VWs. It's unfortunate when a company has a solid product, they choose, for whatever reason, to change or discontinue it. Thanks again for much-appreciated information. I'll have to read about the new spring material you mentioned in MX Blue switches.