The Quest for the Perfect Gamepad

[chuckster]

I've been getting into game emulation over the lest few years, as well as being a long-time pc gamer, both old and  new titles. As such, I've become familiar with many different button layouts, control schemes, and design limitations when dealing with games designed for different hardware and sometimes vastly different input devices.

So, now, I am currently working on a project to create an ideal controller in the form of a gamepad (because a keyboard solution is just too easy). My aim here is to combine the virtues of many varied designs into a single gamepad in an attempt to unify the experience of playing games across a myriad of systems.

So, after trying Various controllers over the last few months, (and still counting), I thought I would ask the geekhack community of experienced modders, builders, and overall input-device experts for their opinion on the project. What advice can you offer on building this new pad, and what features do you think are ideal? For example, do you prefer concave or convex analog sticks? Six-button layout or four (or eight)? Analog buttons/triggers or completely digital, or how many of each? Cross directional pad or 8-way or micro-joystick a la Neo Geo? All ideas are welcome!

This will be a totally new, from-scratch product, so all input is welcome. I'll be targeting the PC with the USB interface. I'd like to know the community's opinion  or advice on building as well (I have no experience in this arena) and I know many here that do.

So, opinions?

[tp4tissue]

xbox one... it's not like you have a choice.

[Melvang]

I suppose this depends on what kind of game pad you are looking at building here.  If it is more of a console style controller then yes I would say Xbox has a very good starting point.  I think my ideal gamepad of that type would be the PS3 controller but swap the d-pad and the analog stick on the left side.  I would really like to get my hands on the steam box controller just to try that one out.  I don't want to take the time explaining that one but check that one out.

For PC keyboard type game pad I think razer almost perfected it with the Orbweaver.  The one thing I would change would be the HAT switch.  I actually prefer the hat switch from the Nostromo.  I think that just has to do with the size of the switch and the actual switches used.  But I think a perfect implementation would be to swap the hat switch for an analoge stick to use that for movement instead of the traditional WASD.  But this is my 2 cents. 

One thing my wife would like in an orbweaver type setup would be some slightly larger caps on the WASD keys.  She has a Wolfking keyboard rubber dome POS.  But the WASD on the left side are quite a bit larger.  Like in the realm of 1.25x1.25 units or so. 

Just some imputs for ya.

One thing I forgot to add.  My biggest gripe with the Orbweaver is the switch on space.  That thing acutally kind of sucks balls.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I suppose this depends on what kind of game pad you are looking at building here.  If it is more of a console style controller then yes I would say Xbox has a very good starting point.  I think my ideal gamepad of that type would be the PS3 controller but swap the d-pad and the analog stick on the left side.  I would really like to get my hands on the steam box controller just to try that one out.  I don't want to take the time explaining that one but check that one out.

For PC keyboard type game pad I think razer almost perfected it with the Orbweaver.  The one thing I would change would be the HAT switch.  I actually prefer the hat switch from the Nostromo.  I think that just has to do with the size of the switch and the actual switches used.  But I think a perfect implementation would be to swap the hat switch for an analoge stick to use that for movement instead of the traditional WASD.  But this is my 2 cents. 

One thing my wife would like in an orbweaver type setup would be some slightly larger caps on the WASD keys.  She has a Wolfking keyboard rubber dome POS.  But the WASD on the left side are quite a bit larger.  Like in the realm of 1.25x1.25 units or so. 

Just some imputs for ya.

One thing I forgot to add.  My biggest gripe with the Orbweaver is the switch on space.  That thing acutally kind of sucks balls.

For me, my Orbweaver is fine the way it is.
I wouldn't mind a mechanical button where the thumb lever is, but the lever works fine for me.

As for gamepads, the Sony DualShock 4 has effectively the perfect design / button arrangement for me.
My only gripes with it is
1) the fact that is uses a proprietary Lithium Ion battery instead of 2x AA's
2) the analog stick is circular gate instead of Octagonal gate, I prefer octagonal gates
3) The face buttons have screen padded icons instead of having print padded below a clear polycarbonate layer to protect the labels from wearing

Those are my issues with the DS4

[IvanIvanovich]

For a handheld pad I like this

Xbox versus controller. I like the button placement better for oldschool games in emulator than the regular one. I think the shape is a bit nicer, little more comfortable to me. But, it depends... I also like something like these

nice to put in your lap and relax back on the sofa while playing some old beat em ups.

I can't give much feedback on internal details... I never really thought much about it like I have with keyboards. Basically the 2 main things is is it comfortable to use for more than 3 minutes, and does it respond well... it being somewhat durable is always nice as well of course.

[chuckster]

I suppose this depends on what kind of game pad you are looking at building here.  If it is more of a console style controller then yes I would say Xbox has a very good starting point.  I think my ideal gamepad of that type would be the PS3 controller but swap the d-pad and the analog stick on the left side.  I would really like to get my hands on the steam box controller just to try that one out.  I don't want to take the time explaining that one but check that one out.

For PC keyboard type game pad I think razer almost perfected it with the Orbweaver.  The one thing I would change would be the HAT switch.  I actually prefer the hat switch from the Nostromo.  I think that just has to do with the size of the switch and the actual switches used.  But I think a perfect implementation would be to swap the hat switch for an analoge stick to use that for movement instead of the traditional WASD.  But this is my 2 cents. 

One thing my wife would like in an orbweaver type setup would be some slightly larger caps on the WASD keys.  She has a Wolfking keyboard rubber dome POS.  But the WASD on the left side are quite a bit larger.  Like in the realm of 1.25x1.25 units or so. 

Just some imputs for ya.

One thing I forgot to add.  My biggest gripe with the Orbweaver is the switch on space.  That thing acutally kind of sucks balls.

For me, my Orbweaver is fine the way it is.
I wouldn't mind a mechanical button where the thumb lever is, but the lever works fine for me.

As for gamepads, the Sony DualShock 4 has effectively the perfect design / button arrangement for me.
My only gripes with it is
1) the fact that is uses a proprietary Lithium Ion battery instead of 2x AA's
2) the analog stick is circular gate instead of Octagonal gate, I prefer octagonal gates
3) The face buttons have screen padded icons instead of having print padded below a clear polycarbonate layer to protect the labels from wearing

Those are my issues with the DS4

Thanks for the input guys, I do want to clear up that as of now, I'm not really considering the keypad option in the vein of orbweaver.   

The versus pad is a design that I am really looking into, among others. I prefer a six-button layout myself, and appriciate the importance of a good dpad as one of the best alternatives to the full arcade stick, which I respect but believe is to specialized for today's dual-analog titles. As far as the remarks about the ds4, I agree on the cheap button printing, and though I'm not really looking at wireless options yet, if I do, it would include a built-in lithium battery like the ds3, with consideration given to ease of replacement if the need arises.

In regards to the gates on the analog sticks, which pad offers square or octagonal gates? I was under the impression that all were circular (except the n64 pad of course). I actually have an idea involving a brand new (as far as I know) thumbstick design that I am very hopeful about.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The GameCube controllers had Octagonal gates for their two analog sticks, and I prefer the feel of having the Octagonal gates, it's easy to intuitively feel which direction is which when you move the sticks when it hits the end of a gate.

As for the battery situation, 2x AA's are easy to replace, Sanyo Eneloops are common and hold more than enough power.

[chuckster]

Ah, now that you mentioned it, I did dig up one of my old GameCube controllers and I certainly can feel the tactility suggesting an octo-gate. I would not have noticed it if it were not there, and it certainly adds another consideration to the design. I'll have to play around a bit with the GC before deciding though, I personally prefer (perhaps due to familiarity more than anything) circular gates on thumbsticks, however I will certainly consider the advantages and disadvantages of different gates before making a decision.

 Things are rapidly coming together. I have quite a bit of research to do as to the technical aspect of prototyping, and several notable pads to try out and examine in-depth, but as to the design itself, I'm getting more confident each day. I'll hopefully find the time this weekend to sketch out a tentative layout and overall design.

Any other suggestions/comments?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Ah, now that you mentioned it, I did dig up one of my old GameCube controllers and I certainly can feel the tactility suggesting an octo-gate. I would not have noticed it if it were not there, and it certainly adds another consideration to the design. I'll have to play around a bit with the GC before deciding though, I personally prefer (perhaps due to familiarity more than anything) circular gates on thumbsticks, however I will certainly consider the advantages and disadvantages of different gates before making a decision.

 Things are rapidly coming together. I have quite a bit of research to do as to the technical aspect of prototyping, and several notable pads to try out and examine in-depth, but as to the design itself, I'm getting more confident each day. I'll hopefully find the time this weekend to sketch out a tentative layout and overall design.

Any other suggestions/comments?

For the face buttons, avoid the mushy analog face buttons, keep it digital with a nice solid press for registering button clicks

Pressure Sensitive buttons are only good for applications that support them, and very few if any PC games support them properly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DualShock_2#DualShock_2

DS2 / DS3 had pressure sensitive face buttons, and I thought they were a step down from pure digital buttons in terms of button feeling

Even the DS4 went back to pure digital buttons with only 2x analog triggers

As for Analog stick tension, play around with different controllers until you find out about how much tension you like

Also for the analog stick stem / neck, metal parts will prevent that rubber / plastic peeling that happens over time with use

I had a old Baracuda PS1 controller (3rd party) that had that design feature and it was nice

[chuckster]

I agree with you on analog face buttons, and I had decided initially to keep them digital, I don't have a real issue with the ds2/3 analog face buttons, but they certainly are a step down in overall feel. I am worried though that this would impact overall versatility--a primary concern of this project--especially regarding games that did/do include this feature. Are their any titles that you know of that demand use of analog face buttons for a complete play through?
   I was maybe even looking into short throw mechanical or even topre-style switches for them to add some longevity. Every major controller I am aware of utilize rubber domes for face buttons, and as a few of my older examples can attest, the button action can severely degrade after even a couple of years of heavy use. Of course, there are good and bad rubber domes, and this is not true of all examples, but I am really looking to maximize longevity and more robust button switches are one way I am looking to do that.

As for the metallic analog stick stems and collars, that is a wonderful idea, and one I am going to definitely include. I was already planning on making the d-pad infrastructure mostly metallic, but up until now had not considered the analog stick.

Wow, the more I think about this, the more costly and intensive it seems to become. Isn't that always the case in situations like these?

[Lastpilot]

Wii U Pro Controller!

Basically an xbox controller but with an a dual analog setup that actually makes sense for me. I've been using it for a good 4/5 months now and couldn't be happier. Only thing is lack of progressive triggers, but I hardly use that feature anyway.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I agree with you on analog face buttons, and I had decided initially to keep them digital, I don't have a real issue with the ds2/3 analog face buttons, but they certainly are a step down in overall feel. I am worried though that this would impact overall versatility--a primary concern of this project--especially regarding games that did/do include this feature. Are their any titles that you know of that demand use of analog face buttons for a complete play through?
   I was maybe even looking into short throw mechanical or even topre-style switches for them to add some longevity. Every major controller I am aware of utilize rubber domes for face buttons, and as a few of my older examples can attest, the button action can severely degrade after even a couple of years of heavy use. Of course, there are good and bad rubber domes, and this is not true of all examples, but I am really looking to maximize longevity and more robust button switches are one way I am looking to do that.

As for the metallic analog stick stems and collars, that is a wonderful idea, and one I am going to definitely include. I was already planning on making the d-pad infrastructure mostly metallic, but up until now had not considered the analog stick.

Wow, the more I think about this, the more costly and intensive it seems to become. Isn't that always the case in situations like these?

The only game that I've ever played and used the analog face pads pressure sensitivity was an old Ace Combat game.

But then I haven't played every single PS2 / PS3 game, so it's hard to say how well those features were supported.

But if this is going to be used on PC, then don't even bother with the pressure sensitivity.

Are you going to include Sixaxis functionality into your controller?

Do you even care about that functionality

What about DS4 like touchpad, do you care about the touchpad feature?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I agree with you on analog face buttons, and I had decided initially to keep them digital, I don't have a real issue with the ds2/3 analog face buttons, but they certainly are a step down in overall feel. I am worried though that this would impact overall versatility--a primary concern of this project--especially regarding games that did/do include this feature. Are their any titles that you know of that demand use of analog face buttons for a complete play through?
   I was maybe even looking into short throw mechanical or even topre-style switches for them to add some longevity. Every major controller I am aware of utilize rubber domes for face buttons, and as a few of my older examples can attest, the button action can severely degrade after even a couple of years of heavy use. Of course, there are good and bad rubber domes, and this is not true of all examples, but I am really looking to maximize longevity and more robust button switches are one way I am looking to do that.

As for the metallic analog stick stems and collars, that is a wonderful idea, and one I am going to definitely include. I was already planning on making the d-pad infrastructure mostly metallic, but up until now had not considered the analog stick.

Wow, the more I think about this, the more costly and intensive it seems to become. Isn't that always the case in situations like these?

I looked at my DS3, and from the spacing of the buttons, you can easily fit Cherry MX switched underneath the buttons, so all you have to do is design the PCB and plastic well around it

[chuckster]

Ah, the pro controller, like the Xbox 360 controller, (I have been disappointed with the Xbox One controllers I have tried so far) very ergonomic in its overall design, and the general shape, if not the layout, will form a starting point for my efforts. After trying a dozen or so controller designs throughout the last few months, I believe that this general shape shows the most promise for comfort, which is a chief concern, and presents few disadvantages for versatility and durability, the other two top priorities for me.

Regarding motion sensing and modern features like the ds4 touchpad, these are choices I will be forced to address eventually, for future-proofing and overall versatility if nothing else. However at this time, I am only concentrating on games made for traditional gamepad controls. The wii will be difficult to emulate using a single pad, for example and I am looking into a couple of 'breakaway' or multi-part designs to address this.

It is important to note that a major focus is eminent usability with as many control schemes as possible, primarily through emulation on PC, and hopefully on real hardware through a conversion Device. I have a few controllers that I use for emulation and retro gaming in this manner, and with any single controller design I have tried, something is certainly given up. In any case, I am certainly concentrating on all post Atari 2600 gamepads to consider their features and layouts to create a design that works as closely as possible to the original layout as well as offering all of the comfort and modern features of today's controllers such as the ergonomic considerations and analog sticks.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Something like this?

[Melvang]

Now integrate that into something like the steam box controller with the dual touch pads and you would have the single best controller on the market.

[chuckster]

Something like this?

I'm on my phone so I'm having trouble viewing that video, can you fill me in?

I'm interested to see how the Steam controller works out. The concept of a fully (nearly) touch based interface could open up new vistas of customization in new games, though I'm suspect of its use in older title or relatively small-time emulators or original hardware. It would be like integrating the Wii motion controls into SMB: possible, but certainly more complicated than mapping buttons. It could be very interesting if done properly, but just like keyboards, I believe physical buttons are hard to beat with a touch interface.

[Johan]

You've probably seen it by now. Essentially that video shows s controller that is able to be split into two parts, When its split it becomes a wii controller, except its accurate/non ****ty and works with a lot of games. They also talk on how easy it is to rebind the controller and how it works with emulators and stuff.

[kod]

As far as Dpad goes, the saturn 2d controller is the gold standard.

Analog stick placement, I really do not like the WiiU pro at all.  Having to lift your thumb up as it moves outward in order to go from the buttons to the right stick is a very unnatural movement.

[dante]

I seem to remember enjoying the Gravis pad back in the 90's:

[yasuo]

I Prefer this is:

[jacobolus]

[dante]

This looks like a Saturn controller for the PC.

[Gid]

To tell if a controller is good, hold it in your hands for a while.  Then, put it down and pick up an SNES controller.  If you have to go back to the first one to tell which feels better, you have a good controller on your hands.

[Protato_Tubby]

I also like something like these

Show Image

nice to put in your lap and relax back on the sofa while playing some old beat em ups.

I can't give much feedback on internal details... I never really thought much about it like I have with keyboards. Basically the 2 main things is is it comfortable to use for more than 3 minutes, and does it respond well... it being somewhat durable is always nice as well of course.

What is that type of controller called? I'm interested in one.

[NamelessPFG]

Show Image

I actually own one of these. It's the true Descenter's controller, never mind what the MS Sidewinder 3D Pro fanboys might say!

But the serial interface and mere six buttons cripple it. The ASCII Sphere's added D-Pad and extra buttons would help a lot, and while there's the OrbShield project to serve as a USB converter, I find it far more practical to just get a 3Dconnexion device, unless your sole goal is to play Descent II on an older computer with unlimited turn rate.

Anyway, as for a general-purpose gamepad, the problem here is that many games have different requirements and feel better with different pads as a result.

-2D games feel best with a Neo-Geo CD-style microswitched thumbstick (or, failing that, a Genesis or Saturn-style D-Pad) and microswitched face buttons, preferably a 6-button A/B/C/X/Y/Z layout. It's all about precise digital control...except for those 2D games designed around dual-analog controls, of course.

-3D games need comfortable analog stick placement, minimal center play (something Microsoft consistently fails at), and in certain cases with the PS2 and original Xbox, even analog face buttons and shoulder buttons.

Even then, dual-analog designs don't work as well as the aforementioned SpaceOrb 360 for full 6DoF control...but the SpaceOrb, in turn, doesn't work so well for games designed around two independent sticks, and there's no way you can accommodate both effectively on a single gamepad without turning the whole thing into an ergonomics nightmare.

If I had to take a crack at the all-around "perfect" gamepad, the result would probably be something akin to the DualShock 4, with its D-Pad replaced with a Neo-Geo CD-style clicky microstick (albeit with microswitches that aren't infamously unreliable), the face button count increased to six, and retained button and D-Pad pressure sensitivity to ensure it doesn't suck for PCSX2 use.

Before you bring up the general non-use of analog buttons, I can think of several examples:

-Ace Combat 04/5/Zero (Truth be told, I'd rather play these with the Hori Flightstick 2, but that aside, the first two demand a pressure-sensitive Square so you can adjust the map zoom, a pressure-sensitive Triangle so you have control over your padlock zoom, and pressure-sensitive shoulder buttons so you have fine control over throttle and rudder. Two of the thumb buttons on the Flightstick 2 are pressure-sensitive for exactly this reason.)
-Metal Gear Solid 2/3 (I don't know what the hell Konami was thinking with the control scheme in these games. For starters, your weapon fire button is on the face, you shoot by pressing and releasing, but to put away your gun without shooting, you have to GENTLY release the button. It's extra-"fun" if using a full-auto weapon, where you now have to hold it lightly to keep the gun out WITHOUT shooting!)
-Grand Theft Auto III/VC/SA (It's a much more minor example here, but you'll notice that the vehicles have analog gas and brake despite being mapped to the face buttons. Replicating this behavior on PC requires VCAMC and SAAC, respectively.)

As for examples I don't know of first-hand, but have been reported elsewhere:

-Eternal Ring (From Software apparently decided that analog mode on a DualShock 2 should entail using the pressure-sensing on the D-Pad and keeping the analog sticks completely useless. How they went from that kind of thinking to a completely sensible control scheme in Demon's/Dark Souls, I'll never know...)
-The Bouncer (Your main attack buttons apparently work differently if you press them light or hard.)
-SOCOM series (Press Triangle lightly to crouch, press hard to go prone. A common complaint of SmartJoy FRAG users back in the day was that they COULDN'T crouch due to the inability to map keyboard and mouse functions to anything less than 100% pressure on a button, and Zipper Interactive didn't take the Infinity Ward approach of holding the button down to go prone and tapping for crouch.)

All in all, though, I have to keep several gamepads around depending on the game, because one size does NOT fit all.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Show Image

I actually own one of these. It's the true Descenter's controller, never mind what the MS Sidewinder 3D Pro fanboys might say!

But the serial interface and mere six buttons cripple it. The ASCII Sphere's added D-Pad and extra buttons would help a lot, and while there's the OrbShield project to serve as a USB converter, I find it far more practical to just get a 3Dconnexion device, unless your sole goal is to play Descent II on an older computer with unlimited turn rate.

Anyway, as for a general-purpose gamepad, the problem here is that many games have different requirements and feel better with different pads as a result.

-2D games feel best with a Neo-Geo CD-style microswitched thumbstick (or, failing that, a Genesis or Saturn-style D-Pad) and microswitched face buttons, preferably a 6-button A/B/C/X/Y/Z layout. It's all about precise digital control...except for those 2D games designed around dual-analog controls, of course.

-3D games need comfortable analog stick placement, minimal center play (something Microsoft consistently fails at), and in certain cases with the PS2 and original Xbox, even analog face buttons and shoulder buttons.

Even then, dual-analog designs don't work as well as the aforementioned SpaceOrb 360 for full 6DoF control...but the SpaceOrb, in turn, doesn't work so well for games designed around two independent sticks, and there's no way you can accommodate both effectively on a single gamepad without turning the whole thing into an ergonomics nightmare.

If I had to take a crack at the all-around "perfect" gamepad, the result would probably be something akin to the DualShock 4, with its D-Pad replaced with a Neo-Geo CD-style clicky microstick (albeit with microswitches that aren't infamously unreliable), the face button count increased to six, and retained button and D-Pad pressure sensitivity to ensure it doesn't suck for PCSX2 use.

Before you bring up the general non-use of analog buttons, I can think of several examples:

-Ace Combat 04/5/Zero (Truth be told, I'd rather play these with the Hori Flightstick 2, but that aside, the first two demand a pressure-sensitive Square so you can adjust the map zoom, a pressure-sensitive Triangle so you have control over your padlock zoom, and pressure-sensitive shoulder buttons so you have fine control over throttle and rudder. Two of the thumb buttons on the Flightstick 2 are pressure-sensitive for exactly this reason.)
-Metal Gear Solid 2/3 (I don't know what the hell Konami was thinking with the control scheme in these games. For starters, your weapon fire button is on the face, you shoot by pressing and releasing, but to put away your gun without shooting, you have to GENTLY release the button. It's extra-"fun" if using a full-auto weapon, where you now have to hold it lightly to keep the gun out WITHOUT shooting!)
-Grand Theft Auto III/VC/SA (It's a much more minor example here, but you'll notice that the vehicles have analog gas and brake despite being mapped to the face buttons. Replicating this behavior on PC requires VCAMC and SAAC, respectively.)

As for examples I don't know of first-hand, but have been reported elsewhere:

-Eternal Ring (From Software apparently decided that analog mode on a DualShock 2 should entail using the pressure-sensing on the D-Pad and keeping the analog sticks completely useless. How they went from that kind of thinking to a completely sensible control scheme in Demon's/Dark Souls, I'll never know...)
-The Bouncer (Your main attack buttons apparently work differently if you press them light or hard.)
-SOCOM series (Press Triangle lightly to crouch, press hard to go prone. A common complaint of SmartJoy FRAG users back in the day was that they COULDN'T crouch due to the inability to map keyboard and mouse functions to anything less than 100% pressure on a button, and Zipper Interactive didn't take the Infinity Ward approach of holding the button down to go prone and tapping for crouch.)

All in all, though, I have to keep several gamepads around depending on the game, because one size does NOT fit all.

I've never been a fan of Pressure Sensitive buttons.

Any game can be designed without it and work just as well if not better.

[NamelessPFG]

I've never been a fan of Pressure Sensitive buttons.

Any game can be designed without it and work just as well if not better.

I never said I was a fan, just that certain games were designed around them and I have no choice but to adopt the developer's chosen control scheme or make hacky workarounds in the emulator's input plugin.

If I wasn't clear on this earlier, I'd prefer NOT to have to swap gamepads all the time, depending on what I'm playing. If part of that involves any substantial playtime in PCSX2, then I'd prefer something that's not only fully compatible with any wacky excuse game developers might have to use the DualShock 2's pressure-sensitive buttons, but also more ergonomic than the DualShock 3.

[jacobolus]

I actually own one of these [SpaceOrb]. It's the true Descenter's controller, never mind what the MS Sidewinder 3D Pro fanboys might say!

But the serial interface and mere six buttons cripple it. The ASCII Sphere's added D-Pad and extra buttons would help a lot, and while there's the OrbShield project to serve as a USB converter, I find it far more practical to just get a 3Dconnexion device, unless your sole goal is to play Descent II on an older computer with unlimited turn rate. [...]

Even then, dual-analog designs don't work as well as the aforementioned SpaceOrb 360 for full 6DoF control...but the SpaceOrb, in turn, doesn't work so well for games designed around two independent sticks, and there's no way you can accommodate both effectively on a single gamepad without turning the whole thing into an ergonomics nightmare.

I have a SpaceOrb and an Ascii Sphere, as well as a couple of old SpaceBall thingies, that I picked up cheap from ebay [was supposed to get 2 more Ascii Spheres $5/each from ebay, but the package never arrived ]. At some point in the medium term, I’ll integrate at least one into my custom computer input keyboard/trackball setup [passed through a controller with custom firmware so I can make it work with arbitrary software].

Anyway, it’s too bad that there aren’t more such devices around, because they really are nifty for interacting with 3-dimensional environments. I don’t really play video games, but 3D games taking real advantage of a 6DOF joystick could have much better control than anything using multiple 2DOF joysticks, as you say.

I think it would definitely be possible to include both a 6DOF control like the SpaceOrb in one hand and sufficient buttons / other analog inputs for a modern game controller in the other. For one thing, game controllers are currently horribly unbalanced in overloading the thumbs and not using the fingers for much of anything, so there’s quite a bit of room for more controls right there.

Obviously something like a modern SpaceOrb wouldn’t be appropriate for all games [e.g., it makes no sense for 2D platformers, classic arcade games, or Street Fighter clones]. But any time there’s movement in 3D, it’s pretty amazing.

[IvanIvanovich]

I also like something like these

Show Image

nice to put in your lap and relax back on the sofa while playing some old beat em ups.

I can't give much feedback on internal details... I never really thought much about it like I have with keyboards. Basically the 2 main things is is it comfortable to use for more than 3 minutes, and does it respond well... it being somewhat durable is always nice as well of course.

What is that type of controller called? I'm interested in one.

Typically called 'arcade sticks' that particular one made by elecom.

[Protato_Tubby]

I also like something like these

Show Image

nice to put in your lap and relax back on the sofa while playing some old beat em ups.

I can't give much feedback on internal details... I never really thought much about it like I have with keyboards. Basically the 2 main things is is it comfortable to use for more than 3 minutes, and does it respond well... it being somewhat durable is always nice as well of course.

What is that type of controller called? I'm interested in one.

Typically called 'arcade sticks' that particular one made by elecom.

What's this particular one like to use? I've found the same one on Amazon.co.uk and I've almost got enough money to buy it.