Layout for MEN with broad shoulders.

[tp4tissue]

Unleash Your TKL

Explanations for this layout: Diagram included in Attachments 

Shoulders:

If you have broad shoulders, you have to bring your arms really close together to type in the middle of the keyboard. This is unnatural and uncomfortable.

Wrists:

Typing in the middle of the standard centered qwerty layout requires wrists to be steeply bent outwards.

TKL Broad, is a essentially a split keyboard.

Fingering is the same as standard qwerty with the exception of Y and Z.
Home position is wide, Left index on F, and Right index on J

The Right' Shift Key

Very easy to get used to, because it uses the same finger, right pinky to activate, much faster and more convenient compared to standard right shift which requires (Hand Lift).

The Top "Y" and "Z" key. typed by MIDDLE finger  )

Reaching for standard Y key with qwerty requires (hand lift), Now it is placed in an easy reach location, and adds very little extra keystroke load to the middle finger.

The Z key is moved based on the same principle, removing (hand lift) requirements, and adding minimal extra load to redirected finger.

Super TKL Number Pad:

Who said TKL is missing the number pad. It was right there the whole time.

Touch type'able

If you've purchased a full 104key set of caps, now you can use the middle R3 cap from the number pad as a middle homing pad for the center number pad as key "2".


Of course one will need some time to make the transition but your shoulders and wrists will thank you.



I changed the layout using the remapkey, part of the windows resource kit.

RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR, otherwise you might get an error when you're saving the settings.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fdetails.aspx%3Fid%3D17657&ei=5c1CUPnJCqXq0gH6uoH4Cw&usg=AFQjCNG_-jEgl-JMF1H-CeWM_giSjDv3Ew

[dorkvader]

Oh yeah. I read a lot about these on the colemak forum. They looked really good. I was considering trying it for Dvorak sometime, but I never did set it up.

One reason why I don't touch type properly, is that I keep my hands on aoe and ns-, and move them farther in if needed. This keeps my wrists from being cramped.

Ofcourse the ergoDOX will eventually solve this issue.

[tp4tissue]

Oh yeah. I read a lot about these on the colemak forum. They looked really good. I was considering trying it for Dvorak sometime, but I never did set it up.

One reason why I don't touch type properly, is that I keep my hands on aoe and ns-, and move them farther in if needed. This keeps my wrists from being cramped.

Ofcourse the ergoDOX will eventually solve this issue.

The ergodox will definitely fix our problems, but we're talking probably 3 years before something comes out. In the meantime, why not give the split layout a go.

I've only lost 20wpm off my 130wpm average, due to the y key being moved. And it should recover within a week or so.

What I'm really loving is the number pad in the middle, Now i can touch type the numbers again on the TKL, using the homing bar Row 3 key from the number pad part of the 104 keycap set.


And I didn't even realize how far I was bending my wrist to reach the Right Shift key, it's ridiculous, but now it's right under my pinky, no stretching' whatsoever.

My hand and wrists are completely stationary when typing standard text.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Hey it's good that not all your posts are troll posts anymore. This is actually a pretty nice remap. I'm seriously thinking about relearning to a more efficient layout, not sure whether to try this one out or start over and do colemak. One thing for this layout though, is that you're forced to get blank caps if you want a decent looking KB. No more nice SP sets . Unless of course you don't care if keys don't match the lettering.

[tp4tissue]

Hey it's good that not all your posts are troll posts anymore. This is actually a pretty nice remap. I'm seriously thinking about relearning to a more efficient layout, not sure whether to try this one out or start over and do colemak. One thing for this layout though, is that you're forced to get blank caps if you want a decent looking KB. No more nice SP sets . Unless of course you don't care if keys don't match the lettering.

What up whitefire.

I maintain that everything I've ever said anywhere, has been pure gold. 

As far as the keycaps go. sigh.... it's really down to your shoulders or your OCD,  I guess since this is geekhack, many people would pick OCD and not their physical health, but I've always had blank caps so I lucked out I guess.

For this layout, I actually made it myself out of frustration because my shoulders were cramping.

Putting my hands as wide as possible on the keyboard just made alot of sense.

At first I thought the space bar might be an issue, but good thing I have a wide palm and a long thumb so I still have a good quarter right of the space bar left.

[dorkvader]

My problem is hitting the spacebar, which I normally use my right thumb for. On my unicomp (which does have a smaller spacebar) the "alt" key is almost perfectly situated for that. On a "normal" size keyboard, I can hit the edge of the spacebar nicely, and the alt key is too far over.

Left thumb spacebar is pretty normal, though.

[tp4tissue]

And another MAJOR advantage of the number row being a block now, is that you can touch type on it because it's already in a spot where you have good amount of muscle memory of where the keys are.

And the Right panel of letters are direct translations of normal qwerty.

The only road block you might hit is getting used to the enter key being the backspace key.


If ya'll decide to replicate this layout, make sure to use the period key for the dot next to the zero, and not the number pad dot, because the number pad dot depends on numlock, and you don't want to bother with toggling numlock on a tkl.

[tp4tissue]

My problem is hitting the spacebar, which I normally use my right thumb for. On my unicomp (which does have a smaller spacebar) the "alt" key is almost perfectly situated for that. On a "normal" size keyboard, I can hit the edge of the spacebar nicely, and the alt key is too far over.

Left thumb spacebar is pretty normal, though.

I did a key analysis a while back on the frequency of keys using the qwerty layout, and statistically speaking all space bar key presses should be allocated to the right hand. This is analysis assuming you're typing the bible.

You can also convert the right alt key for space bar use, but I've found that you don't really have to do that,

Here's why, when you really get started typing, one extends their thumb unconsciously when typing the space bar key.

So, while you'll definitely have to be more accurate with the space bar, it's not a problem because with this layout, the hand can remain completely stationary, so there won't be any finger searching for the space bar. 

[tp4tissue]

but ah, yea, you should just set this up and give it a try and see if your thumb is ok with it.

Sitting and thinking about it isn't as effective, haha.

[dorkvader]

but ah, yea, you should just set this up and give it a try and see if your thumb is ok with it.

Sitting and thinking about it isn't as effective, haha.

Just noticed, I was assuming the "enter" was a homerow key (with pinkie on it) If you move your left hand over one more (What is shown in the picture) then it's easily manageable to hit the spacebar.

Right now the biggest issue is the stepped capslock my unicomp has. I prefer IBM for trying out new layouts, as the keycaps are really interchangeable.

Yeah, I really need to add a language layout to my laptop soon.

[tp4tissue]

but ah, yea, you should just set this up and give it a try and see if your thumb is ok with it.

Sitting and thinking about it isn't as effective, haha.

Just noticed, I was assuming the "enter" was a homerow key (with pinkie on it) If you move your left hand over one more (What is shown in the picture) then it's easily manageable to hit the spacebar.

Right now the biggest issue is the stepped capslock my unicomp has. I prefer IBM for trying out new layouts, as the keycaps are really interchangeable.

Yeah, I really need to add a language layout to my laptop soon.

Hmmm.. I pulled out my old rubber dome with the stepped caps lock. my pinky naturally falls to the left raised part of the key when I type A on the new layout, LOL

You guys can shift the right keygroup one key left, and keep the number row on top original, and move more modifiers to the middle.

the only downside would be that touchtyping the number row will be hard again. Unless they make a homing bar key for R4.

We should really get one of these made.

My setup is a bit extreme I must admit that.

[dorkvader]

I'm pretty certain I'll be using my 7bit layout phantom with greens like this.

[tp4tissue]

I'm pretty certain I'll be using my 7bit layout phantom with greens like this.

Man, you guys are really dedicated, to do so much soldering.

[tp4tissue]

Updated with ergonomic positioning diagram.

[Icarium]

Can you add some finger coloring to and size up the diagram a bit?

[tp4tissue]

Can you add some finger coloring to and size up the diagram a bit?

Fingering is the same as standard qwerty with the exception of Y and Z, which are typed by the middle finger.
Home position is wide, Left index on F, and Right index on J

[Piro]

I came up with a wider (only 1-key) Dvorak layout some time back, and I've been using it ever since then (ISO format). I made a comprehensive thread about it and the design:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31178.msg590498#msg590498
I have even ordered a WASD 105-key with this layout physically, if it comes today I'll post a picture!

I didn't settle on a final ANSI layout design, but there a few good candidates in there, and relevant testing results - nobody using ANSI replied with what would be favoured potentially - and the thread died down (it didn't help that it was also at the time when the forum was rolled back, THEN hacked).

My design isn't super radical or anything, though, it doesn't use the number row, or move alpha keys to currently non-alpha keys. But that was intentional, really, and to speed my use of it from Dvorak. Honestly, my main problem was stretching to f and x, and that was thoroughly solved.

[Icarium]

Hm...both those layouts use the number row heavily. I don't know about you but I can not use the number row while keeping my hand even close to the homerow position. I need to move my _arm_ to get to that row, so that seems like it might not be a good idea.

[tp4tissue]

Hm...both those layouts use the number row heavily. I don't know about you but I can not use the number row while keeping my hand even close to the homerow position. I need to move my _arm_ to get to that row, so that seems like it might not be a good idea.

Neither of our layouts extensively use the middle of the number row.

In fact for basic typing there is almost zero use of the top row, except for y,z, apostrophe', and question mark?  which are easily reached by the middle finger and ring finger because they're so long.

Are you a younger gentlemen, not yet fully grown?

[tp4tissue]

I came up with a wider (only 1-key) Dvorak layout some time back, and I've been using it ever since then (ISO format). I made a comprehensive thread about it and the design:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31178.msg590498#msg590498
I have even ordered a WASD 105-key with this layout physically, if it comes today I'll post a picture!

I didn't settle on a final ANSI layout design, but there a few good candidates in there, and relevant testing results - nobody using ANSI replied with what would be favoured potentially - and the thread died down (it didn't help that it was also at the time when the forum was rolled back, THEN hacked).

My design isn't super radical or anything, though, it doesn't use the number row, or move alpha keys to currently non-alpha keys. But that was intentional, really, and to speed my use of it from Dvorak. Honestly, my main problem was stretching to f and x, and that was thoroughly solved.

I just tested your layout, and the hands are not wide enough apart for me. But that could just be because Im getting so comfy to my tkl broad.   )

[Piro]

I know I can easily hit the number row with my middle and ring fingers without moving my hands from the home position, for what it's worth.

[Piro]

I just tested your layout, and the hands are not wide enough apart for me. But that could just be because Im getting so comfy to my tkl broad.   )

That's completely understandable, one extra is not necessarily enough. One size doesn't fit all! But at least it gets a healthy dialogue going on wider designs, which is nice.

vv Yes, understood.

[tp4tissue]

I know I can easily hit the number row with my middle and ring fingers without moving my hands from the home position, for what it's worth.

Yea exactly, but the point is, you can only do this accurately with the closest keys above those two fingers.

For all the keys in the middle, you have to lift your hand. Unless you have basketball hands.

[Icarium]

Hm...I am almost thirty and haven't grown in a long time. Would have liked to though.
Maybe we should take some pictures or something? I assume in the end hand size should somehow be considered, maybe.
Due to the angled position of the hands (I still get that even when using your layout) I can reach the number row decently with the middle and ring finger. Index and pinky are a bit of a stretch. Due to said angle the keys I can reach comfortable are towards the middle.

[tp4tissue]

I just tested your layout, and the hands are not wide enough apart for me. But that could just be because Im getting so comfy to my tkl broad.   )

That's completely understandable, one extra is not necessarily enough. One size doesn't fit all! But at least it gets a healthy dialogue going on wider designs, which is nice.

The wider the better. I even thought about converting the number pad on a Full size keyboard to the right hand keys.

The problem with doing that is that zero key is much too short to replace space bar. So the only viable key is right-arrow, but it's too small on it's own.

[Icarium]

So get a Kinesis and help me mess with that layout. It needs some work.

[tp4tissue]

So get a Kinesis and help me mess with that layout. It needs some work.

The kinesis is definitely wide enough no?

If only they made it prettier.   

[Icarium]

Yeah, the width is good but some of the keys I find too hard to reach.

Before going any further offtopic I would like to suggest that you create a wiki page for your layout.

[tp4tissue]

Yeah, the width is good but some of the keys I find too hard to reach.

Before going any further offtopic I would like to suggest that you create a wiki page for your layout.

Hmm... I have no experience creating a new wiki page... I've always thought that you were never supposed to create pages about yourself, because then you'd have no sources?

Is there a template?

I mean, I don't feel ballzy enough to straight up go and edit the qwerty page on wiki with my own stuff.

EVEN though I firmly believe that this layout is much more relaxing for all typists.

[Icarium]

Well I want you to edit the geekhack wiki not wikipedia so you can create pages for your projects without any problem and references are generally not needed at all. The idea is to have a place where the information on a project is collected. So that ideas that are uttered somewhere 500 posts down the thread don't disappear because of tldr. Another viable option is too always update the first post. Creating a wiki page usually inspires people to add some more nice pictures and structure the information nicely, though that's why I prefer that.

[davkol]

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[Icarium]

Damn, I hate when people show all those useless symbols. It is just confusing.

[tp4tissue]

Caps lock feels a bit stiff/sticky on some keyboards, so I would prefer DreymaR's wide Colemak mod (it requires ISO layout, though).

Hi, Davkol

The caplocks key is sticky on some keyboards only if you hit the extreme corners of the key.

In most cases, because people don't use this key often it never "smooths" out. but I'd like to share that after using my layout for the past week, All my keys are very smooth.

And it is unlikely that you would be hitting the extreme corners of your caps locks key with your pinky, because hitting q is generally a motion where one widens their palm and extends their pinky. This usually hits the key consistently in its center.

[tp4tissue]

Damn, I hate when people show all those useless symbols. It is just confusing.

Lol, it's bling factor bro, like, bling points.

[Input Nirvana]

Yeah, the width is good but some of the keys I find too hard to reach.

Before going any further offtopic I would like to suggest that you create a wiki page for your layout.

Yo Monkey-Man!
Please expand on your statement of the Kinesis-layout-issue you mention.
Is this something my split Kinesis solves or --- ? I noticed that my arm position affects the ease of tilt/move of my hands, once I split the Kinesis, my ability to 'hit' certain keys was a tiny fraction better.

Off topic:
What became of the Rollermouse and the Alphagrip?

[Icarium]

Well, I still can't really use the arrow keys and square brackets and stuff on the bottom row because my fingers don't find back to the home row and using that + key in the top right is quite a stretch for me as well. Generally if I try to actually rest my hands on the palm rests I can't really reach some keys anymore.

The Alphagrip and Rollermouse still live with me and make occasional appearances in my input life.

[Lanx]

is this issue and broad shoulders and kinesis have something to do that usually if you have broad shoulders you're tall and usually have long fingers, and the concave kinesis just doesn't lend itself to that body type?
(i'm 5'10 so fits me almost fine)

[tp4tissue]

is this issue and broad shoulders and kinesis have something to do that usually if you have broad shoulders you're tall and usually have long fingers, and the concave kinesis just doesn't lend itself to that body type?
(i'm 5'10 so fits me almost fine)

Many tall people don't have broad shoulders. LOL.

[dorkvader]

What counts as "broad" shoulders? How is it measured? Do larger deltoid muscles throw off the measurements?

[tp4tissue]

What counts as "broad" shoulders? How is it measured? Do larger deltoid muscles throw off the measurements?

Hmm. I suppose it would, so would fat.


Actually, if you're not a woman, then you should likely find typing uncomfortable.