Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[davkol]

The point is that Caps lock isn't systemic. If it still were Shift lock, the point would be moot.

The current USB HID protocol doesn't care about semantics, those things are solved on the software side. Which includes behavior of the key in question as Caps lock under most circumstances.

Programming and other formal languages have utilized symbols outside ASCII for a long time. APL comes to mind. Or currently Haskell (unicode syntactic sugar). Extra symbols are commonly input through chords with AltGraph, which is a layer-accessing modifier. That actually leads to another question: how will AltGraph behave with Caps lock active, if I want to input, say, letters of the Greek alphabet? It'd be simple with Shift lock.

I wouldn't be opposed to having the input method implemented in the keyboard, and capable of producing Unicode among other things. If it were configurable for future-proofing. …something something Symbolics Lisp machine…

But that's not the current reality. The current reality is that we have a key in a prominent position utilized, well, as Caps lock by nearly all software by default.

[Niomosy]

This caps lock discussion seems much ado about nothing.

[tp4tissue]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

[Doluded]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

[cultofjosh]

Hah, love this thread. Will have to read it all eventually. This is all on repeat but

1) Hate linear switches
2) Hate DSA
3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

[Auk]

5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

In case you've missed it, this one shows a lot of promise. I really want flat profile and winkeyless myself, but the slender divides and blockers on this design can just take the edge off the typical 75% clutter.

[iFreilicht]

The point is that Caps lock isn't systemic. If it still were Shift lock, the point would be moot.

Holy **** I just tried it on a coworkers PC, I was not aware at all. Is this just a Linux thing or is Windows behaving the same way now? It seems I haven't touched that key in years and actually I don't own a keyboard that has it anymroe

This caps lock discussion seems much ado about nothing.

As is anything else in this thread, so I might as well contribute.

[antquinonez]

A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.

[ideus]

A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.

There is nothing wrong with LEDs and bright colors, the actual problem is them taking over on functionality and reliability.

[zslane]

Hah, love this thread. Will have to read it all eventually. This is all on repeat but

1) Hate linear switches
2) Hate DSA
3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

We are practically mirror images of each other.

1. I like linear switches, but I prefer good tactile switches like Topre/TMX or Kaihua Coppers.
2. I like DSA, but I prefer SA/MT3. (On the other hand, I loathe all cylindricals.)
3. I don't hate artisans, but I do feel that 99.9% of them look like stupid little toys. (I guess they're okay for little kids?) Having said that, I do have an idea for an artisan keycap that actually has a strong relationship to typing/keyboards rather than looking like something you'd find at the bottom of a Crackerjack box.
4. I only use full-size boards with desktop PCs, but I prefer a good 60% with my iPad. Everything else, including TKLs, are a waste of good plastic and metal AFAIC.
5. The only 75% board I find even remotely useful is the Plum Nano 75, and only because it is a 60% with an F-row added to the top. It isn't really any wider than a regular 60%, which is critical since being any wider would create size disparity issues with the iPad that I can't abide.

[tp4tissue]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.

There is nothing wrong with LEDs and bright colors, the actual problem is them taking over on functionality and reliability.

Asides from the fact several manufacturers are focusing too much on that over quality, honestly I think much of it is incredibly tacky and I would be embarrassed to have most of these "Gamer" styled keyboards on my desk.

[Altis]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

Sure, if you're going poor buying keyboards. But if it's a drop in the bucket and brings you joy, why not?

The same can be said of anything in life. It's up to each person to determine what brings them joy and is worth time/money in life. 

[antquinonez]

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

So, the more keyboards we have, the emptier we are on the inside?

GULP

1,2,3,4,5...[hey, do dupes count?], 6,7...

Hey, my Model F XT will probably fail on me one of these days...so...

[zslane]

So, the more Model M/F-style keyboards we have, the emptier we are on the inside.

There, fixed that for you... 

[ideus]

A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.

There is nothing wrong with LEDs and bright colors, the actual problem is them taking over on functionality and reliability.

Asides from the fact several manufacturers are focusing too much on that over quality, honestly I think much of it is incredibly tacky and I would be embarrassed to have most of these "Gamer" styled keyboards on my desk.

I am not into it, either; but, I respect the people who do. I concur that features like back lighting are just a waste of resources.

[tp4tissue]

Sure, if you're going poor buying keyboards. But if it's a drop in the bucket and brings you joy, why not?

The same can be said of anything in life. It's up to each person to determine what brings them joy and is worth time/money in life. 

That is dangerous, and limited.


We are our own worst enemy, because of how little information and scope each individual human can process.


I'd say Trusting oneself is laying too much stock in a very limited animal.




My proposal is a super computer to replace human leadership..   But hey..  skynet right ?  sigh..............

[Doluded]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though

[OneNightFriend]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though

Frankly this is one of the most social hobbies I've adopted in a long time. It's not just a hobby; it is a community!

[Doluded]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though

Frankly this is one of the most social hobbies I've adopted in a long time. It's not just a hobby; it is a community!

Exactly. I enjoy interacting with all these people and sure, this hobby might hurt the wallet at times and leave me frustrated, but I do think the point is not only the items found in this hobby but the people too. So keyboards have benefited me and a bunch of other people I'd say.

[E3E]

Hah, love this thread. Will have to read it all eventually. This is all on repeat but

1) Hate linear switches
2) Hate DSA
3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

1) Linears are my favorite, but I like (not necessarily love) all other switches too, aside from clicky Cherry MX.
2) DSA seems pretty underwhelming, but I really enjoy spherical profiles that are sourced from vintage keyboards for Alps. I do not hate cylindrical caps, though. I also appreciate them.  I'm just fascinated by the OG sculpted sphericals available for Alps. I don't like SA too much, but I'm mildly interested in Topre Hi Pro.
3) Not my thing. I don't hate the caps, just some of the mentality that crops up around them.
4) I enjoy full size boards. I like 60%. I like TKLs. I'm not a big fan of 65%, I don't care for 1800 aesthetically, and...
5) ...75% is very nice for getting TKL functionality out of a smaller footprint, but it looks like a brick.

[Altis]

Sure, if you're going poor buying keyboards. But if it's a drop in the bucket and brings you joy, why not?

The same can be said of anything in life. It's up to each person to determine what brings them joy and is worth time/money in life. 

That is dangerous, and limited.


We are our own worst enemy, because of how little information and scope each individual human can process.


I'd say Trusting oneself is laying too much stock in a very limited animal.




My proposal is a super computer to replace human leadership..   But hey..  skynet right ?  sigh..............

Perhaps... but people generally wouldn't like the decisions that a logical super computer would lead with, especially in these days of feelings-first. 

Though I'm quite certain that a super computer would recommend Topre. 

[klennkellon]

9 out of 10 keyboard enthusiast agree that out of 10 people 1 person will always disagree with the other 9.

[tp4tissue]

I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though

Frankly this is one of the most social hobbies I've adopted in a long time. It's not just a hobby; it is a community!

Exactly. I enjoy interacting with all these people and sure, this hobby might hurt the wallet at times and leave me frustrated, but I do think the point is not only the items found in this hobby but the people too. So keyboards have benefited me and a bunch of other people I'd say.

I glad you guys are able to abate the sinking feeling of ones life with keyboard and community.

But is that not using the presence of a communal delusion to justify it being the norm ?

[tp4tissue]

9 out of 10 keyboard enthusiast agree that out of 10 people 1 person will always disagree with the other 9.

Let's get Digi in here with his math...

[tp4tissue]

Perhaps... but people generally wouldn't like the decisions that a logical super computer would lead with, especially in these days of feelings-first. 

Though I'm quite certain that a super computer would recommend Topre. 

You know,  that's something a person in power might say..


But we've never had a robot president,   so how do you know it wouldn't work..



I'd follow a AI leader,  because I know that it is objective.


Cold objectivity is the basis for science,  and it is only by following that very logical trend which continues our growth.


At every turn,  Humans continue to undermine science by distorting it to pursue basic urges..

Most humans want to be rich , with no clear goal for the money they earn.

Then some actually get rich, some powerful,  but proceed to direct their subject's efforts toward endeavors which benefit no one.

[zslane]

Hey guys, please stop feeding the troll.

[tp4tissue]

Hey guys, please stop feeding the troll.

nom nom nom nom nom...

[Altis]

Perhaps... but people generally wouldn't like the decisions that a logical super computer would lead with, especially in these days of feelings-first. 

Though I'm quite certain that a super computer would recommend Topre. 

You know,  that's something a person in power might say..


But we've never had a robot president,   so how do you know it wouldn't work..



I'd follow a AI leader,  because I know that it is objective.


Cold objectivity is the basis for science,  and it is only by following that very logical trend which continues our growth.


At every turn,  Humans continue to undermine science by distorting it to pursue basic urges..

Most humans want to be rich , with no clear goal for the money they earn.

Then some actually get rich, some powerful,  but proceed to direct their subject's efforts toward endeavors which benefit no one.

"Cold objectivity" sounds all good and well... but it will certainly go against human experiences (for better or for worse).

If President SuperComputer outright banned the Ergodox because it's inferior, you might well say that you still prefer it.

Of course, President SuperComputer would then know that you are a hindrance to progress and have you and all the Ergodoxes shipped out to sea. 

[tp4tissue]

"Cold objectivity" sounds all good and well... but it will certainly go against human experiences (for better or for worse).

If President SuperComputer outright banned the Ergodox because it's inferior, you might well say that you still prefer it.

Of course, President SuperComputer would then know that you are a hindrance to progress and have you and all the Ergodoxes shipped out to sea. 

This is the problem with discussions of this type, because you've got very different tolerances for what constitute objectivity and human experience.


I would say that despite inconsistencies,  Humans are coldly objective..


You've got facebook, why , to meet females,why,  pleasure of procreation, why, to procreate, why, to live

You've got mcdonolds, why, it's delicious, why,  pleasure of eating, why, to live



So where you draw the line forms a difference in opinion,   but you go back to further enough.. You get mostly the same result.



What a computer would do in this case, is reach these conclusions faster,  while being able to incorporate opinions / facts/ and fiction from big data..

It's not a matter of reaching right or wrong,  it's more about reaching  good consensus on what's actually happening..




Whereas a human decision would always be very narrow and myopic

[davkol]

You've got mcdonolds, why, it's delicious, why,  pleasure of eating, why, to live

Junk food is addictive and by definition deficient in nutrition. If you eat only junk food, you may even refuse actual food rich in nutrition, because it's comparatively bland.

The same issue with the FB example: if you use FB to have sex, but don't have kids (say, because of birth control), well, that's ultimately a failure.

[SBJ]

I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

[iFreilicht]

I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

Good middle ground? I like my Gateron Browns.

[SBJ]

I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

Good middle ground? I like my Gateron Browns.

I am sure some people see the value, I just don't.
The way I type and the force I use - I feel nothing on Browns. I much prefer Blues or Greens.

I was so disappointed with the VA68M I got with Browns, but it was my own fault I could've had Greens in them but opted for Browns.
I still use it though, just so I don't feel the money's wasted.

[OneNightFriend]

I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

Good middle ground? I like my Gateron Browns.

I am sure some people see the value, I just don't.
The way I type and the force I use - I feel nothing on Browns. I much prefer Blues or Greens.

I was so disappointed with the VA68M I got with Browns, but it was my own fault I could've had Greens in them but opted for Browns.
I still use it though, just so I don't feel the money's wasted.

I think this is a relatively common complaint about cherry browns. You might try gats to at least be fair to the concept of browns. Ultimately though if you like clicky then you like clicky.

[dante]

Optical switches are the stupidest idea ever.  They can't even keep the LED's from going out on backlit keyboards.

[antquinonez]

A metal tray with a sandwich of components -- a circuit board, a flat mounting plate, and switches does not a keyboard make. Talk about under-engineering. Three words: variable key height.

[tp4tissue]

A metal tray with a sandwich of components -- a circuit board, a flat mounting plate, and switches does not a keyboard make. Talk about under-engineering. Three words: variable key height.

1 Word..


Ergodox... !!!

[xtrafrood]

A metal tray with a sandwich of components -- a circuit board, a flat mounting plate, and switches does not a keyboard make. Talk about under-engineering. Three words: variable key height.

Deskthority: Designing a custom Topre board - by attheicearcade

[fouras]

Gateron browns are the worst feeling switches I've tried. Cherry ones are fine in comparison.

The keyboard without caps = naked woman thing is super cringy.

Any set of caps without an option for mod-colored tilde and backslash is junk.

[Prince Valiant]

99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)

Seems a bit high. Fatigue of my hands/fingers is minimal for me since I switched over, I'd say that's beneficial.

I haven't thrown much money at them either. The only things I've pondered are a better quality board to replace my current quirky one and/or maybe an Ergodox (though the cost wards me off).

[poq]

tp4tissue is a valuable, helpful, kind, constructive member of this community 

[kasakka]

3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.

I wouldn't use hate personally but I don't like the majority of artisan keycaps. Most of them aren't very nice to use as keys and don't look that great. The ones that do (for example everything Jellykeys does) are really beautiful though. People are free to collect whatever they want. I mean I own more guitars than I have time to play...

I've come to dislike full size keyboards. They indeed do seem like a waste of space. 60-65% is ideal for me but I would not go with the 40-45% either.

[zslane]

I mean I own more guitars than I have time to play...

I think it would be a much more valid comparison (to artisan keycaps) if you said you owned more Guitar Hero controllers than you have time to play with.

[antquinonez]

The Unicomp Model M feels better than the IBM Model M. There I said it.

[mason]

I've been using this board with an ISO enter for a few minutes and I actually really like it. There's no reason for the \| key to be larger than 1u.

I may consider switching when I build a board.

[iFreilicht]

I've been using this board with an ISO enter for a few minutes and I actually really like it. There's no reason for the \| key to be larger than 1u.

I may consider switching when I build a board.

Wholeheartedly agree. Alternatively, when building a board yourself, consider using ANSI Enter with Backspace where \ | is right now, and splitting up the 2u key that was backspace into two 1u.

Very good layout unless you need \ very often.

[mason]

I've been using this board with an ISO enter for a few minutes and I actually really like it. There's no reason for the \| key to be larger than 1u.

I may consider switching when I build a board.

Wholeheartedly agree. Alternatively, when building a board yourself, consider using ANSI Enter with Backspace where \ | is right now, and splitting up the 2u key that was backspace into two 1u.

Very good layout unless you need \ very often.

I had that on my 60% boards. Split backspace looks out of place on larger boards.

[zslane]

It's true that the |\ key doesn't need to be larger than 1u. I don't think it is 1.5u because of any ergonomic benefit, but rather only as a by-product of having nowhere else to go on an ANSI board. (The HHKB solution is interesting, but violates all my muscle memory as to where the Delete key should be.)

By the same token, the ISO Return key is a waste of a key position. There is no utility in making it consume space on row 2. I am never going to reach up there to hit the key; my pinky will always go laterally two spots from the home position. I don't know why anyone would extend their pinky up to row 2 just to hit Return, especially since they never have to.