Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[Blue_Moon]

Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

i like scissor switch. someone later mentions logitech perfectstroke for a larger scissor switch. that immediately reminded me of sean wrona (speed typist) who uses a logitech rubber dome instead of the das mechanical he had before (i emailed him asking if he'd actually managed to wear out a mechanical keyswitch, but he said spilt orange juice was the culprit). he says the speed difference between his logitech rubberdome and previous mechanical keyboard is insignificant. i went to check his site again:

...have since switched to a Logitech Illuminated Keyboard k740. I do not particularly feel much of a speed difference between the two keyboards, although the Das Keyboard probably did feel better to type with.

how do you feel apple's butterfly switch compares?

[BigBlackThock]

And that last post bring me to my next unpopular opinion.

Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts more often than not, can't type.

I find it utterly hilarious watching many mechanical keyboard review and how to videos with someone who is highly regarded by the community as an expert. Don't get me wrong, they know their mechanical keyboards, but inevitably they do a typing sound test and you realize they can't type 

[Blue_Moon]

not sure what you're getting at, since you didn't point it out, but if you're referring to my lack of capital letters and loose regard for punctuation, you'd be wrong. i touch type, have touched typed for decades, and aim for 99% accuracy. i'll have you know, it took me years after joining a gaming company to undo what i had learned, but i find i can't manage both styles (caps vs no caps) and using proper punctuation makes me seem like a prude

however, if that was just a tangent out of the blue, i agree. the guy who did keyboard.io said he didn't know how to touch type until he tried making his own keyboard. sean wrona technically can't touch type! i imagine this number only increases as people learn to type on their own and don't take typing classes. that was me for about my first decade of typing, but then when i got old enough to work, i got a job as a data entry clerk and had plenty of time to learn to touch type >.<

[BigBlackThock]

not sure what you're getting at, since you didn't point it out, but if you're referring to my lack of capital letters and loose regard for punctuation, you'd be wrong. i touch type, have touched typed for decades, and aim for 99% accuracy. i'll have you know, it took me years after joining a gaming company to undo what i had learned, but i find i can't manage both styles (caps vs no caps) and using proper punctuation makes me seem like a prude

however, if that was just a tangent out of the blue, i agree. the guy who did keyboard.io said he didn't know how to touch type until he tried making his own keyboard. sean wrona technically can't touch type! i imagine this number only increases as people learn to type on their own and don't take typing classes. that was me for about my first decade of typing, but then when i got old enough to work, i got a job as a data entry clerk and had plenty of time to learn to touch type >.<

Oh no, I'm sorry. I should have been more specific. I wasn't commenting on your typing at all but rather that the fastest typist known to man doesn't seem to care what kind of board he types on as opposed to a huge portion of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts who are very particular about their hardware but terrible typists.

[xtrafrood]

Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand )

[BigBlackThock]

Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand )

Err, aren't you supposed to?

[xtrafrood]

Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand )

Err, aren't you supposed to?

?

[BigBlackThock]

Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand )

Err, aren't you supposed to?

?

I was taught to hit spacebar with left thumb.

[tp4tissue]

I was taught to hit spacebar with left thumb.

Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.

[Zobeid Zuma]

Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

[CommonCurt]

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.[/color][/size]

Agreed.   Although I do use right shift for punctuation marks. 

[rumlyne]

Although unfortunately I'm currently using an HP membrane piece of junk at work I'm glad I had it since it introduced me to the glory of flat keyboard cases and uncontoured/flat profiles. It's soo much more comfortable that even the mildly contoured and barely angled keayboards I've used until now.

[asphyxia]

tina c is actually really good if built well

[brainandforce]

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.

The only way I can reconcile that thought in my brain is to assume you haven't tried a good vintage M (since individual specimens vary). Granted, I've only used one Unicomp, but it was such an atrocity that I sent it back for a refund. Model Ms from the '80s are much sturdier and the switch feel is great (as opposed to the Unicomp that felt like scraping a knife against a chalkboard). I do have a spare Unicomp barrel frame that didn't feel as bad when I put caps on it, but still not nearly as good as a vintage one, so maybe my Unicomp was just a lemon.

I'm curious, have you tried a recent (2014 or later) Unicomp? They have a somewhat lighter, crisper feel than previous Model Ms. I've tried a few other Model Ms, but none of them feel as light as the 2014 EnduraPro and 2016 Ultra Classic I've tried. It's a bit closer to the feel of a Model F, IMO, though the Model F is still distinctly different.

[BigBlackThock]

The difference in quality between Topre and Cherry-style tactile switches is more apparent than Cherry and Rubber Dome.

[Chekonjak]

Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

This one is so hard after learning to type at the same time as learning to play first-person shooters!

[jcoffin1981]

Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

I don't know if this is textbook technique.  Even though I was taught to use both R and L shift keys, I use only left.  It slows me down a heck of a lot when I have to hit !, @, or Z.  Rshift is so foreign to me that this slows me down too when using punctuation.  I shoulda learned right the first time.

I only  use my right thumb to space.  There is so much wasted real-estate space on a keyboard.  The profiles could be made significantly smaller with a space bar of only 2.5 units.  It would also weigh less (more responsive) and have less wobble.  This would also quiet down that empty clack of the space bar. These all contribute to an overall feeling of quality in the board.  Any board with ABS caps that I have owned for years has developed a 1cm patch of shininess on the spacebar from my right thumb.  I don't know why this design has not caught on in todays keyboard climate.

[xtrafrood]

Yep, more keyboards should ship with split spacebars.

[tp4tissue]

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

Typing class is like Gym class..  It's an introductory..

The Teacher most likely has a very low lvl of Typing-Mastery..  Even compared to Scrubs on ol'Gekha..


While it's true that there is no absolute right/wrong way to type,  we are trying to weigh the habits of the faster typers.


Such as,  Right-Thumb Space,  Left Shift ONLY,  Ring-Finger ' Q ' ,

[portbaron]

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

Typing class is like Gym class..  It's an introductory..

The Teacher most likely has a very low lvl of Typing-Mastery..  Even compared to Scrubs on ol'Gekha..


While it's true that there is no absolute right/wrong way to type,  we are trying to weigh the habits of the faster typers.


Such as,  Right-Thumb Space,  Left Shift ONLY,  Ring-Finger ' Q ' ,

Nice, I do all those things. Maybe one day I can become typing master.

[frydaja]

Right-Thumb Space

Check.

Left Shift ONLY,

Check.

Ring-Finger ' Q '

No way.

[tp4tissue]

Ring-Finger ' Q '

No way.

/Music/   If you want to be, the very best,  that no one ever wazzzz..   

[Kavik]

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.

The only way I can reconcile that thought in my brain is to assume you haven't tried a good vintage M (since individual specimens vary). Granted, I've only used one Unicomp, but it was such an atrocity that I sent it back for a refund. Model Ms from the '80s are much sturdier and the switch feel is great (as opposed to the Unicomp that felt like scraping a knife against a chalkboard). I do have a spare Unicomp barrel frame that didn't feel as bad when I put caps on it, but still not nearly as good as a vintage one, so maybe my Unicomp was just a lemon.

I'm curious, have you tried a recent (2014 or later) Unicomp? They have a somewhat lighter, crisper feel than previous Model Ms. I've tried a few other Model Ms, but none of them feel as light as the 2014 EnduraPro and 2016 Ultra Classic I've tried. It's a bit closer to the feel of a Model F, IMO, though the Model F is still distinctly different.

Yeah, the ones I used were made in 2016.

[9999hp]

30 dollar set of POM keycaps sounds the best

[xtrafrood]

All mainstream keyboard vendors should revert back to the tried and true pebbles and cream keycap/case color scheme.

[fohat.digs]

It's pebble and pearl.

[xtrafrood]

It's pebble and pearl.

I feel like I'm 20 years younger all of a sudden. Thank you for the correction.

[2ndRoad805]

1. Why do Retro-style Keycap sets like Godspeed and others exist in so many bland variations? They're as exciting as vanilla ice cream.
2. White ABS keycaps. Who cares if they're double shot for longevity when they'll look like piss in a decade from the yellowing.
3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
4. Why does the menu cap exist? Do people not utilize the right click on a mouse? Why would you cycle through every option in a menu with tab when you could go directly to it and click.

[frydaja]

1. Why do Retro-style Keycap sets like Godspeed and others exist in so many bland variations? They're as exciting as vanilla ice cream.

Yeah. Can we have, like.. Model M dyesubs with MX mount? Or a regular grey/beige keycap sets with colored modifiers (like Focus)?

Also don't forget there's always a GMK set with the same colors as the previous SA set. Yep, as exciting as a boiled potato. (I like vanilla ice cream)

GMK keycaps are ugly.

[abrahamstechnology]

2. White ABS keycaps. Who cares if they're double shot for longevity when they'll look like piss in a decade from the yellowing.

I think the point is that they will be usable and legible for many decades, function over form.

Personally I don't think I'll ever try retrobrighting Wyse keycaps ever again as they seem to turn extremely brittle when done so.

[invariance]

3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.

Don’t have to reach as far as to the mouse when navigating spreadsheets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[no, the other guy]

Spreadsheets are best filled with arrow keys.

Code editors are best used with a mouse though.

[Zobeid Zuma]

I only  use my right thumb to space.  There is so much wasted real-estate space on a keyboard.  The profiles could be made significantly smaller with a space bar of only 2.5 units.  It would also weigh less (more responsive) and have less wobble.  This would also quiet down that empty clack of the space bar. These all contribute to an overall feeling of quality in the board.  Any board with ABS caps that I have owned for years has developed a 1cm patch of shininess on the spacebar from my right thumb.  I don't know why this design has not caught on in todays keyboard climate.

Until very recently the split spacebar was patented.  Anybody wanting to produce a keyboard with split spacebar had to pay a royalty on it, and of course nobody was willing to do that.  Maybe now that the patent has expired this idea can start to make some inroads.

[Little4Real]

Buckling Spring is the worst feeling switch I've ever used in my life

[fohat.digs]

I am getting very confused. Has the thread gone off-topic?

From my perspective, spreadsheet navigation and numeric entry are the huge and irreconcilable attributes that separate the predominant camps.

Not unpopular, just realistic.

[TheGlyph]

Until very recently the split spacebar was patented.  Anybody wanting to produce a keyboard with split spacebar had to pay a royalty on it, and of course nobody was willing to do that.  Maybe now that the patent has expired this idea can start to make some inroads.

Really? Who held/holds the patent?

[WireStart]

Keyboard fans are bad typer's. Also the older the keyboard the better it sounds

[algernon]

Until very recently the split spacebar was patented.  Anybody wanting to produce a keyboard with split spacebar had to pay a royalty on it, and of course nobody was willing to do that.  Maybe now that the patent has expired this idea can start to make some inroads.

Really? Who held/holds the patent?

I think this is the patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5143462A/en, which seems to have expired in 2004 (not *very* recently, but at least in this century).

[Kavik]

3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
4. Why does the menu cap exist? Do people not utilize the right click on a mouse? Why would you cycle through every option in a menu with tab when you could go directly to it and click.

There are quite a few things in some applications that need to be done repetitively but are not close enough to each other on the UI that using a keyboard is faster or more comfortable. When using the right-click menu repetitively, the precision required with a mouse or trackball to select the items becomes very tedious. The software product my company sells is very lacking in keyboard navigation and shortcuts, and it's very annoying when running test cases or creating data for bug reproduction.

[Findecanor]

3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
4. Why does the menu cap exist? Do people not utilize the right click on a mouse? Why would you cycle through every option in a menu with tab when you could go directly to it and click.

3: Text editor power-users use them a lot. If you are used to Mac/Windows-style editors, as opposed to emacs or vi. Each key does something with Shift, and in good text editors most do stuff with Ctrl or even Alt as well.
4: To me, it looks like the Menu key was idea that was never fully developed. Anyway, it is convenient to have a spare key that you could remap to Compose.

[Blue_Moon]

3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.

depends on how you're using the arrow keys. if you're holding down an arrow key to travel a long distance instead of clicking straight to the point, then yes, this is the equivalent of keyboard turning in an mmo. but if you're using it for a single press, then it isn't. for example, in at a command prompt, i can press the up arrow to retrieve my previous command. although i should be able to use the mouse to grab the scroll bar and scroll, this is a mess when there's hundreds of lines of empty buffer below the command prompt, in which case page up and page down are better

the same can be said for home and end. pressing them once to go to the beginning or end of a line is much easier than clicking

[sncbraxsc2]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

[ramencup]

does anyone else hit spacebar with their right index finger instead of thumb?

i'd like to say that i'm not that bad of a typist otherwise, i average 100wpm

[Blue_Moon]

does anyone else hit spacebar with their right index finger instead of thumb?

i'd like to say that i'm not that bad of a typist otherwise, i average 100wpm

not often but increasingly so since i got my ergodox. i never thought the apple keyboard was cramped, even though i saw a ridiculous picture of it on keyboard.io with cramped hands typing. "who types like that?" i thought. well now that i've got an ergodox with convenient thumb keys for space, i find that whenever i'm back on my apple keyboard (which i have to use since i use my macbook in my lap), the layout is really cramped. i have to reach my thumbs way up there to hit spacebar, so i often just use my index finger instead

[xtrafrood]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

[sncbraxsc2]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface 

[xtrafrood]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface 

That didn't go the way I expected 

[sncbraxsc2]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface 

That didn't go the way I expected 

 She got the angles )

[tp4tissue]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface 

Read somewhere that butterface is extremely offensive.

something about,  how it not only disparages someone's face, but also calls attention to their insecurity and or vanity for having made the best out of the rest of it.

Even though, in earnest, they're just playing the hand..

[sncbraxsc2]

Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface 

Read somewhere that butterface is extremely offensive.

something about,  how it not only disparages someone's face, but also calls attention to their insecurity and or vanity for having made the best out of the rest of it.

Even though, in earnest, they're just playing the hand..

Right, like it would probably be my favorite to use but not look at. Which isn't really necessary anyway