Author Topic: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?  (Read 12835 times)

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Offline schandmann

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What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 12:41:13 »
Hey there,

intense lurker, first-time poster here. I need your advice, keyboard people.

I've bought a few used keyboards off of eBay over the last few weeks to try out the various Cherry MX switch types. After using the four common contemporary types, here's my experience so far:

Reds (Cherry MX 3.0)
Too light and touchy. Not great for either typing or gaming.

Browns (Zowie Celeritas)
I don't get the hate. These are nice switches! The tactile bump could be sharper and they are still a bit too light for me, but otherwise these seem quite comfortable for gaming and longer typing sessions.

Blues (Cherry G80-3000)
Okay, if a bit too light. Not especially enamored with the click. Having sharp (if weak) tactile feedback is nice, but it's too loud and the sound is plasticky and cheap-sounding. Useless for gaming.

Blacks (Cherry G80-1800)
Nice and smooth, but a tad too heavy.

I could absolutely get on with the MX Brown board, but I think I want to keep looking for my ideal writing switches. I touch type and a random online test says I do around 85 WPM, if that's important. Keeping the Zowie on my desk as my daily driver/gaming board and switching to a seperate work board for writing projects is an option, so the switches don't have to do gaming well. TKL and smaller layouts are fine, but I need arrow keys.

So what's out there? I've thought about Gateron Blacks, because I really like the smooth linear feel of the MX Blacks and these are supposed to be a bit lighter. The cheap Magicforce 68 could be a winner here, though the ANSI layout bothers me a little bit.

MX Clears could also be an option, if the tactile feedback can teach me not to bottom out. (I'm a heavy typist, I guess.) Otherwise they'd probably feel too heavy for me. I don't want to fiddle with aftermarket springs and such so Ergo Clears are off the table.

A Model M would also be interesting if it wasn't so damn big. Not exactly something one casually heave up on one's desk a few times a week. Is it that good?

Any ideas?
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 March 2017, 12:48:58 by schandmann »

Offline balotz

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 12:53:12 »
Hey there,

intense lurker, first-time poster here. I need your advice, keyboard people.

I've bought a few used keyboards off of eBay over the last few weeks to try out the various Cherry MX switch types. After using the four common contemporary types, here's my experience so far:

Reds (Cherry MX 3.0)
Too light and touchy. Not great for either typing or gaming.

Browns (Zowie Celeritas)
I don't get the hate. These are nice switches! The tactile bump could be sharper and they are still a bit too light for me, but otherwise these seem quite comfortable for gaming and longer typing sessions.

Blues (Cherry G80-3000)
Okay, if a bit too light. Not especially enamored with the click. Having sharp (if weak) tactile feedback is nice, but it's too loud and the sound is plasticky and cheap-sounding. Useless for gaming.

Blacks (Cherry G80-1800)
Nice and smooth, but a tad too heavy.

I could absolutely get on with the MX Brown board, but I think I want to keep looking for my ideal writing switches. I touch type and a random online test says I do around 85 WPM, if that's important. Keeping the Zowie on my desk as my daily driver/gaming board and switching to a seperate work board for writing projects is an option, so the switches don't have to do gaming well. TKL and smaller layouts are fine, but I need arrow keys.

So what's out there? I've thought about Gateron Blacks, because I really like the smooth linear feel of the MX Blacks and these are supposed to be a bit lighter. The cheap Magicforce 68 could be a winner here, though the ANSI layout bothers me a little bit.

MX Clears could also be an option, if the tactile feedback can teach me not to bottom out. (I'm a heavy typist, I guess.) Otherwise they'd probably feel too heavy for me. I don't want to fiddle with aftermarket springs and such so Ergo Clears are off the table.

A Model M would also be interesting if it wasn't so damn big. Not exactly something one casually heave up on one's desk a few times a week. Is it that good?

Any ideas?

You could go for the IBM Model M2, which is buckling springs in a compact chassis. Or the Unicomp Ultra Classic.

Offline DuckNorris

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 12:58:22 »
Hello

Fello MX Browns lover reporting. Some people troll them around here but it is popular for a certain reason. I say stick to them for now if you like them I am typing on a WASD with Browns and just ordered a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with MX browns as well. If you love them who cares, those people are just hating wanting to be elitists imo :)

RECOMMENDATIONS

If you want even SMOOTHER browns apparently the Gateron Browns are liked even by those that dislike MX Browns (or atleast they find them acceptable, whatever that means).

Another one is Topre will be highly recommended here , even people from Buckling Springs and MX Browns previous users love them. It has more a "thock" and great for typing. It is my next board I am buying soon once they are back in stock for RealForce.


Offline chyros

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 13:00:48 »
If you want sharper tactility than MX browns, an MX-liek design might not be for you. Tactility is one of the things the MX design is pretty crap at.

See if you can find an old AEK or M0116 with salmon or especially orange Alps (make sure it's really clean). Shouldn't be too expensive, and they have a gorgeous tactile feel, and a great sound to boot.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline merlin64

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 13:02:24 »
A couple recommendations

1. PCB mounted Cherry MX Browns, these feel great and seem to accentuate the tactile bump
2. Ergo clears if you're not adverse to switch modding, or even 62/65g zealios if you can make your own board
3. I highly recommend the Gateron blacks, you should also check out the Gateron yellows.
4. If you can get your hands on vintage Cherry MX blues, they feel extra smooth and the click is more subdued.
5. You can also try out the new MOD switches from originative

If you aren't satisfied with Cherry, I highly recommend Orange Alps!

Offline DuckNorris

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 13:11:55 »
Ah brings back memories when all I knew was MX switches.

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Offline schandmann

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 14:01:28 »
You could go for the IBM Model M2, which is buckling springs in a compact chassis. Or the Unicomp Ultra Classic.
Those both look very nice! The M2 seems to be hard to find here, but I could get a used Model M to try out the buckling spring switches and then order a new Unicomp Ultra Classic if I like them.

If you want even SMOOTHER browns apparently the Gateron Browns are liked even by those that dislike MX Browns (or atleast they find them acceptable, whatever that means).

Another one is Topre will be highly recommended here , even people from Buckling Springs and MX Browns previous users love them. It has more a "thock" and great for typing. It is my next board I am buying soon once they are back in stock for RealForce.
I could get a Magicforce 68 with Gateron Browns for a decent price. Does anyone know how they differ from Cherry Browns? Keep in mind that my Zowie keyboard was made in 2011 and has been used quite a bit, so the switches are well worn-in and not scratchy at all. If the Gaterons are similar to that, I'm already set.

Topres are too expensive to just test drive on a whim. Do any of the vintage sleeper rubber dome boards come close?

If you want sharper tactility than MX browns, an MX-liek design might not be for you. Tactility is one of the things the MX design is pretty crap at.

See if you can find an old AEK or M0116 with salmon or especially orange Alps (make sure it's really clean). Shouldn't be too expensive, and they have a gorgeous tactile feel, and a great sound to boot.
If only ADB converters weren't so damn expensive. Makes buying used, trying and flipping a much more expensive proposition. Maybe if I can find one with a bundled adapter somewhere..

A couple recommendations

1. PCB mounted Cherry MX Browns, these feel great and seem to accentuate the tactile bump
2. Ergo clears if you're not adverse to switch modding, or even 62/65g zealios if you can make your own board
3. I highly recommend the Gateron blacks, you should also check out the Gateron yellows.
4. If you can get your hands on vintage Cherry MX blues, they feel extra smooth and the click is more subdued.
5. You can also try out the new MOD switches from originative

If you aren't satisfied with Cherry, I highly recommend Orange Alps!
1. That could be a possibility. Most Cherry boards are PCB mount, so I should be able to test drive that configuration on the cheap.
2. No fiddly mods, please. I have neither the patience nor the dexterity.
3. How different do they feel from broken-in MX Blacks?
4. That should also be possible. Gonna try that.
5. Are there preassembled boards with MODs?
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 March 2017, 14:03:20 by schandmann »

Offline Tally810

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 14:23:52 »
Hmm sounds like you'd really like zealios.  Nice super smooth Tactile switches in 4 different weights.  Might be worth checking out.

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Offline ander

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 16:06:40 »
What's "long-form writing"? You're completing forms of some kind? Or do you just mean you type a lot?

A Model M would also be interesting if it wasn't so damn big. Not exactly something one casually heave up on one's desk a few times a week. Is it that good?

Buckling springs aren't like anything else. Nothing we say here can help you understand how they feel; you just have to try them yourself. I have keyboards of various kinds, and BS boards will always be my favourites. I don't have to work in an office, though. If you do, a Model M will be too noisy for the people around you.

Unfortunately, to properly support buckling spring switches, you need a steel backplate and a strong case, so BS boards will always be a certain minimum size and weight. This is actually good, if you prefer quality more than convenient mediocrity. (IBM tried to make a light, plastic-plate version, the Model M2, but most people agree that they're pretty crappy.)

If a vintage IBM Model M is too big and heavy for you, consider a Unicomp Ultra Classic. It's a newer design that's somewhat smaller and lighter. If you don't want to buy a new one, lightly-used ones often appear on eBay, when people buy new ones and realize they're too loud to use at work. (By "loud", I don't mean "unpleasant"—most of us here love the sound... People who don't appreciate good keyboards usually don't appreciate having to hear them.)

BTW, these days, heave is most often used as a slang term for "vomit". So the image of you "heaving up a Model M on your desk" was amusing.

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Offline Puddsy

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 17:38:23 »
i've done nanowrimo on reds for a few years now

if that's not your jam you might wanna look into either a model m or into a 55g realforce

if i'm not using reds i'm probably using either clears or topre FWIW
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



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Offline schandmann

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 18:28:09 »
Hmm sounds like you'd really like zealios.  Nice super smooth Tactile switches in 4 different weights.  Might be worth checking out.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
They don't seem to be readily available here in Germany.

What's "long-form writing"? You're completing forms of some kind? Or do you just mean you type a lot?
The latter. I write essays for school and short fiction for myself. I also try to keep a regular diary. So it's more of a "and now for the writing part of my day" type situation.

Buckling springs aren't like anything else. Nothing we say here can help you understand how they feel; you just have to try them yourself. I have keyboards of various kinds, and BS boards will always be my favourites. I don't have to work in an office, though. If you do, a Model M will be too noisy for the people around you.

Unfortunately, to properly support buckling spring switches, you need a steel backplate and a strong case, so BS boards will always be a certain minimum size and weight. This is actually good, if you prefer quality more than convenient mediocrity. (IBM tried to make a light, plastic-plate version, the Model M2, but most people agree that they're pretty crappy.)

If a vintage IBM Model M is too big and heavy for you, consider a Unicomp Ultra Classic. It's a newer design that's somewhat smaller and lighter. If you don't want to buy a new one, lightly-used ones often appear on eBay, when people buy new ones and realize they're too loud to use at work. (By "loud", I don't mean "unpleasant"—most of us here love the sound... People who don't appreciate good keyboards usually don't appreciate having to hear them.)
Noise is not an issue as long as the sound itself is good. Again, this is mainly for recreational use in my own room, with the door shut. I won't use this board at work.

BTW, these days, heave is most often used as a slang term for "vomit". So the image of you "heaving up a Model M on your desk" was amusing.
I thought the literal meaning of the word was acceptable in this context. These things are often lost on non-native speakers, I guess. What would you have said? I initially decided on "haul", but then realized I didn't know the correct preposition. "Haul onto"? :rolleyes:

Offline klennkellon

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 18:33:57 »
If you'd like buckling springs but want something with a smaller footprint you could go for Unicomps Ultra Classic which has a much lower profile.

The shipping from Unicomp may be expensive but you can get in any layout you want and still get great keycaps and buckling springs.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 21:21:22 »
german ebay has a lot of gems if you know what to look for
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



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Offline falkentyne

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 22:38:41 »
You want the Zealio tactile switches with lighter springs.  If you absolutely can't solder, buy a hotswappable keyboard like a teamwolf Vod Ray, or the Glorious Gaming Modular RGB keyboard (still in preorder) and pop the switches in there (you want plate mounted SMD RGB compatible switches, for PCB mounted versions you need to clip off the extra leg).  If you want to mod and do a lot more work and solder, desolder Browns, buy clears, pop the tops off (mechanicalkeyboards.com has a switch top remover), take out the clear stem, and put the clear stem in the brown's housing after removing the brown stem.  That's an egro clear.  Or put the brown spring in the clear switch if you can somehow find the springs by themselves somewhere).
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 March 2017, 22:40:24 by falkentyne »

Offline kmba

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 23:10:48 »
I've typed tens of thousands of pages on IBM Model M and F buckling springs.  They're fantastic for typing in my opinion, but they may be too heavy for you. 

My current daily is a 45g topre board (Fc660c, known to be a bit heavier, closer to 50 or 55g), which I think is also very nice for extended typing sessions, but the fore curve makes it feel heavier than the peak force figure would lead you to believe while typing quickly, and I think it would also perhaps be too heavy for you.

My third choice is Zealio.  I have a 67 and 78 gram boards, and they're fantastic.  The 62 gram zealio switch is probably right up your alley.  It's what all brown switches wish they could be. 

Cherry clears are heavier than blacks.

Gateron blacks are lighter than cherry by a little, albeit noticeable, amount.  Gateron yellows have the same actuation force as blacks, but lighter bottoming out .. feels more like a heavy red than a lighter black due to the force curve (blacks have more of a pillow type feeling at the bottom.. springy).  All gateron linears are smoother and nicer than cherry linears in my opinion. 

Gateron browns are smoother than cherry, and have a bit more noticeable bump.  Not as nice as zealio, but not bad. 

I think you should just get a big ass switch tester.  You can get all types of zealio, mod switches, cherrys, gaterons all together in a big plate for like $20. 
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 23:19:18 »
I don't have to say anything.  I believe you should give a Model M a try. If you don't know anyone with one, you may just have to take the plunge and get one.  I'd recommend a Unicomp 103-key.  They are not too expensive, and you get what a Model M keyboard should FEEL like.
If you by any means purchase a used Model M, be forewarned about getting keyboards that may work, but feel terribad.  One keyboard I remember being a true contender for the "round basket" file was actually saved.  I would guess that some of the people that criticize the Model M as being a terrible keyboard, actually got a terrible used Model M.
Get a new Unicomp.  Then decide.

Offline Zar7

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 05 March 2017, 01:07:29 »
Personally, I mainly use three main variants when it comes to long-form writing in general (since I am an undergraduate student enrolled in honors program at college). I type a lot of assignments and research papers so I relied a lot on my mechanical keyboards.

Personally Cherry MX Red is my favourite switch when it comes to typing and gaming, but since you disliked it, no need to try it.
As for Cherry MX Browns, I love using it for typing. The subtle tactile feel it offers feels great and comfortable enough for typing.
If you think MX Brown's tactility to be too "subtle", you could go for Cherry MX Clears (more pronounced tactility).
Cherry MX Blues is the classic for typists in general, but I type faster and more efficiently with MX Red and Topre. I love the feel, but not the constant clicks.
Like the others told you, IBM Model M with its signature Buckling Spring is awesome, and worth a try. If you like "true classic", there is plenty of functional Model Ms around. Additionally, you can always go Unicomp, which is basically the same thing with a very slightly modern design.

When it comes to switches for typing, my top two favourite is Cherry MX Red and 45g Topre.

My Vortex Pok3r comes with Cherry MX Reds, outfitted with a custom aluminium case (triple padded with sound absorbing pads) and thick Vortex Doubleshot PBT keycaps. Typing on it feels super smooth and extremely responsive. Pok3r is always a good choice regardless of the switches you choose.

As for 45g Topre, I have my Novatouch TKL. Its hybrid capacitative design makes swapping keycaps easier, and mine is also equipped with Vortex Doubleshot PBT keycaps. Topre switches feel really, really smooth (even smoother than MX Reds), and the pronounced yet soft tactility they offer is outstanding for typing. For gaming I always go MX Reds, and for typing I always go Topre (and MX Reds).

My recommendation: Topre (45g), MX Clears (55g), Buckling Springs, and Gateron Blacks (55g).
   

Offline happylacquer

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 05 March 2017, 10:12:15 »
Buckling switches. F*** long typing on MX switches. I have a hard time believing anybody who does long term writing can deal with MX's? Unless you have feather light fingers and never hit accidental keys on MX red, then i just don't get how you type anyway...  :thumb:

Offline Zar7

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 05 March 2017, 16:05:38 »
Yeah buckling springs are great. I got used to Cherry MX switches after a long while using them by typing so many assignments. Topre and Cherry MX Red are by far the most comfortable for me when typing. My fingers were NOT feather light at all. My typing force is pretty heavy (had no issues typing for hours on Buckling Springs), but controlled. I love the light and smooth feel of MX Reds and 45g (or 55g) Topre.

My peak WPM for the Buckling Springs is around 128wpm.
For Topre it's 155wpm.
And for MX Reds it's 182wpm.

Never had issues with accidental keystrokes on MX Reds before to be honest. It is very easy to control in my personal experience.     
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 March 2017, 16:07:58 by Zar7 »

Offline Niomosy

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 05 March 2017, 23:46:15 »
Buckling Springs are okay for a little while but not something I'd want to type on for an entire day.  My daily driver is an MX reds board at home.  I prefer lighter linear switches for my heavier typing loads. 


Offline Tally810

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 00:17:32 »
what is long form writing?
I think it's long periods of continuous typing

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Offline ander

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 03:06:36 »
I didn't realize people were already discussing the Model M2 as a possibility here.

Chyros, who's participating in this topic, is one of the KB world's most experienced, respected reviewers. He's a pretty positive, objective guy, too (and has a great sense of humour). I don't think he'd go out of his way to be unnecessarily harsh on a board, unless it deserved it. So before you seriously consider an M2, you'll probably want to listen to his thoughts about them:


Here on GH, people often ask for switch advice, and it's fun to bat around our ideas about them. In practical terms, though, we have no idea what switches would work best for you.

Typing is such an individual thing, you can actually identify people from their typing patterns, like fingerprints. The only way for you to know which switches you prefer is to try as many as you can. And I mean in real keyboards, connected to real computers, so you can see and feel how they respond to yourpersonal typing style. (This is why those little switch "testers" are so useless, and can actually give false impressions... Typing is about a lot more than pressing one key with one finger!)

If you're serious about this, the best way is to buy some used boards in good condition, try them, and sell the ones you don't like. You'll probably want to clean them up before you use them, anyway—so they'll be in better condition than how you got them, and you should be able to resell them for at least as much as you paid.


Quote from: Zar7
Personally, I mainly use three main variants when it comes to long-form writing in general...

Ah, so somebody else has heard of that. I guess it's an actual thing, then.


Quote from: happylacquer
Buckling switches. F*** long typing on MX switches. I have a hard time believing anybody who does long term writing can deal with MX's? Unless you have feather light fingers and never hit accidental keys on MX red, then i just don't get how you type anyway...

Eloquently put, dude. It's ironic, but switches that are too light are actually harder to type on, because you waste so much time and energy bottoming out with such force. All that slamming around also causes unnecessary fatigue and stress, and can lead to typing-related injuries.

Resistance is there for a reason—not just to return the switch to its start position, but to give the typist something to type against. (Imagine how hard it'd be to get any feeling out of a piano with ultra-light keys.)


What's "long-form writing"? You're completing forms of some kind? Or do you just mean you type a lot?

The latter. I write essays for school and short fiction for myself. I also try to keep a regular diary. So it's more of a "and now for the writing part of my day" type situation.

Okay, but I don't see what difference it makes. Besides pure gamers, people who are interested in mechanical keyboards are usually people who type a lot—otherwise they wouldn't care how keyboards felt. The more you use something, the more important its quality becomes, and the more you can appreciate that quality.

Even if all you do is participate in forums like these, you can easily type as much as a full-time student or businessperson. (Just ask my wife, who rarely sees me!) So as soon as you start asking questions about MKs, it's probably not necessary to explain that you type a lot, or what kinds of stuff you type... Since we're just chatting here, you know.

BTW, these days, heave is most often used as a slang term for "vomit". So the image of you "heaving up a Model M on your desk" was amusing.

I thought the literal meaning of the word was acceptable in this context. These things are often lost on non-native speakers, I guess. What would you have said? I initially decided on "haul", but then realized I didn't know the correct preposition. "Haul onto"? :rolleyes:

Yep, I'm afraid "heave" is pretty much a vomiting thing these days. Even if you use it seriously in its other meaning, people who hear it will usually look at each other and giggle.

So rather than this:

Quote from: schandmann
Not exactly something one casually heave up on one's desk a few times a week...

...it'd probably just be easier to say:

Quote from: me
I don't know if I really want to lug around something that heavy.

I think that's the point you were trying to make, anyway.
We are not chasing wildly after beauty with fear at our backs. – Natalie Goldberg

Offline orpheo

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 07:41:11 »
To answer initial OP question I will say that any cheap keyboard can do.
After saying this, it all depends on your keycaps needs, switch needs, financial ease, modability, if you want Tkl, full size etc... The switches alone doesn't make a whole keyboard. I'm not trolling by the way, if you really want to get into keyboards you will have to sink into many many ones in order to understand who you are and what keyboard will accompany in your long typing life!

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 07:56:40 »
Here on GH, people often ask for switch advice, and it's fun to bat around our ideas about them. In practical terms, though, we have no idea what switches would work best for you.

He did this on a Model M folks! *Applause*

Offline gallowgeek

  • Posts: 32
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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 09:33:56 »
What about those Cherry MX Speed switches? Are they good for typing? The TS said that he wants a switch that is good for long-form writing. I think he wants a switch that has a relatively low actuation point so that he can type faster?

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 09:41:11 »
Catch me outsied. How bout that Model F? AT? Bigfoot? 122? Lubbed vintage cherry mx black? I know you're hoarding the surplus :confused:

Offline zutroy

  • Posts: 45
  • Location: Toronto
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 09:53:51 »
I'll echo what has been said by a few in this thread about typing for long periods on MX switches (at least the 4 mainstream: red, black, brown, and blue): I don't find it comfortable or pleasant.

I'm surprised, though, that nobody has mentioned ALPS yet (or maybe I just missed it). I love my Matias Quiet Clicks for typing, which you can obviously get in most of the boards that Matias sells and also in a KBP v60. You could also try to get your hands on a vintage board with orange, salmon, or cream ALPS. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I enjoy the sound of ALPS much more than MX, and they feel more forgiving on my fingers (I'm also a heavy-handed typist).

I would also highly recommend trying Topre if you can spare the cash.

Offline zutroy

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 09:57:25 »
What about those Cherry MX Speed switches? Are they good for typing? The TS said that he wants a switch that is good for long-form writing. I think he wants a switch that has a relatively low actuation point so that he can type faster?

I think for long periods of the kind of writing OP mentioned—writing essays—speed is less important than comfort. Unless you're banging out 5-10 pages 2 hours before your paper is due, you're probably spending a lot of time thinking, then writing, then thinking, then deleting, then thinking, then rewriting, etc. It's more about avoiding fatigue and perhaps not being annoyed at the sound of your keyboard  :))

Offline Tally810

  • Posts: 677
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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 11:38:30 »
What about those Cherry MX Speed switches? Are they good for typing? The TS said that he wants a switch that is good for long-form writing. I think he wants a switch that has a relatively low actuation point so that he can type faster?
I have a board with these and typing was super difficult as they are super light.  They were more for gaming to me.

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Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2302
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 11:58:42 »
I'm a bottom-out typist but I still prefer 45cN switches. MX silent red and Topre are my switches of choice. Anything lighter is too light and anything heavier is fatiguing for me. I don't like a lot of noise when I type, which is problematic given that I am a bottom-out typist, so silenced switches are a must for me. My main drivers at home and at work are silenced RealForce RGB boards, which are quiet and pleasant to type on for long periods of time.

Offline balotz

  • Posts: 29
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 12:58:28 »
I didn't realize people were already discussing the Model M2 as a possibility here.

Chyros, who's participating in this topic, is one of the KB world's most experienced, respected reviewers. He's a pretty positive, objective guy, too (and has a great sense of humour). I don't think he'd go out of his way to be unnecessarily harsh on a board, unless it deserved it. So before you seriously consider an M2, you'll probably want to listen to his thoughts about them:


Keyboard reviews are always going to be subjective, even from the most impartial of reviewers. IMO the M2 is a great board - it has all the important bits from the model M (buckling springs, PBT caps, non yellowing case), in a much smaller footprint. The keyfeel is virtually the same. Also the keycaps are of a much lower profile than the M which I personally prefer, as I'm a lazy wrists-on-the-desk typist...

Chyros mentions membrane trace and capacitor failures but these are not unique to the M2. They are also far easier to take apart than the M, and there are no rivets to break. The M2 can be picked up very cheaply on eBay.


Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 13:10:24 »
I'll echo what has been said by a few in this thread about typing for long periods on MX switches (at least the 4 mainstream: red, black, brown, and blue): I don't find it comfortable or pleasant.

I'm surprised, though, that nobody has mentioned ALPS yet (or maybe I just missed it). I love my Matias Quiet Clicks for typing, which you can obviously get in most of the boards that Matias sells and also in a KBP v60. You could also try to get your hands on a vintage board with orange, salmon, or cream ALPS. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I enjoy the sound of ALPS much more than MX, and they feel more forgiving on my fingers (I'm also a heavy-handed typist).

I would also highly recommend trying Topre if you can spare the cash.

I've got a lot less experience with Alps than Cherry switches at this point, with my SGI Granite being my only Alps board.  I couldn't even last a day of work on that board before fatigue hit and it wasn't even that busy a day - UNIX/Linux admin.  Even for some light gaming I found the Granite tiring after a little bit.  Given the inability to get sets for Alphs, it really puts them off my radar.  As for sound, my goal is to have very little sound coming from my keyboard.

I'm honestly much more interesting in trying out the new hall effect switches once my XMIT board arrives.  That will be interesting.

Offline opensecret

  • Posts: 144
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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 22:07:32 »
I'll echo what has been said by a few in this thread about typing for long periods on MX switches (at least the 4 mainstream: red, black, brown, and blue): I don't find it comfortable or pleasant.

I'm surprised, though, that nobody has mentioned ALPS yet (or maybe I just missed it). I love my Matias Quiet Clicks for typing, which you can obviously get in most of the boards that Matias sells and also in a KBP v60. You could also try to get your hands on a vintage board with orange, salmon, or cream ALPS. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I enjoy the sound of ALPS much more than MX, and they feel more forgiving on my fingers (I'm also a heavy-handed typist).

I would also highly recommend trying Topre if you can spare the cash.

I agree with points 2 and 3, though not with 1.  As others have said, ultimately this comes down to personal preference. 

As a long-form writer, I prefer switches with relatively low actuation force.  I don't particularly like buckling springs because they feel like too much work, particularly if I'm typing over the long haul.  I love the variable weight Realforce Topre boards, but I can also type happily for hours on o-ringed Cherry red or brown switches.  I also enjoy the elegant feel on my Alps boards, though I wish the actuation force was lower.  But I know there are many people who post here whose opinions are way different from mine.  It's well worth paying attention to the opinions of experienced users, but ultimately you have to type on a board for a while before you know if it's for you.
IBM Model M |Matias Mini Quiet Pro|Plum 84EC-S|RealForce 103U-UW & 87U-UW|Omnikey Ultra T| 2 Omnikey Ultras| WASD V2| Xmit Hall Effect|

Offline TheNamesTy45

  • Posts: 324
  • Location: Morrisville, NC
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 07 March 2017, 21:09:44 »
I type all day as a result of my job. Project manager / programmer hybrid. Weird story, but yes, I do both right now. So, if I'm not emailing or responding to someone's instant message, I'm writing code. I have found that typing on Gateron reds has been a real pleasure for my hands; however, they are too light for my tastes. I ordered some Gateron blacks and will be putting 67g springs in them. Hoping that after I install them they'll be the ideal switch.

If you have a real preference of one type of switch (clicky, tactile, linear), but the weight just isn't right for you, maybe consider modding the switch to put a custom spring weight in. That way you can have both the feel and weight you want.

I find I really prefer linears because they feel the nicest to my hands, so that'd be my recommendation, but highly recommend finding that exact switch type you want and then keying in on the weight you want so that you can have your perfect switch just for you.

Offline Wingklip

  • Posts: 153
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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 02:38:01 »
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product-category/main-f62f77-offering/

Go for this if you have the money, and try to lighten the spacebar of anything you get  trust me, it's worth not killing your thumb.
If you 1v1 me in a cage fight I will use an AK-74 for ranged and an IBM model F 122 for melee

Offline cutterline

  • Posts: 52
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 04:54:44 »
I see you haven't mentioned keycaps change. Different keycaps give you different feel mostly because of the keycaps weight. You should try it as well.

About brown switch hate, I myself like to put a bit of my history. My first mech keyboard is Filco with mx brown and after that I bought mx red for office. Fast forward after ghetto cheap mod (o-rings), keyboards, switches, and some keycaps set, now I type mostly on light linear switches (50g Sprit, cherry shell with gateron clear slider), occasionally gateron blue for the click sound or Topre for the Zen-like bliss. Now, I don't like MX brown anymore, it almost become a hate. The first reason is that it feels like broken red if I don't use the Filco stock keycaps. This can be replicate if you're using thick o-ring and thick pbt keycaps. Lastly, if compared to topre/mx clear/ergo clear/zealios/matias tactile, its tactility is pretty much rubbish.

About linear, IMHO, present Cherry is actually the furthest of definition of smooth linear, unless you have the vintage black. Newer cherry slider has rough surface, it feels like there is perpetual sand inside your switch, I hate it very much. I haven't tried their silent switch line up but people says they have smooth sliders so maybe they are fixing this. Gateron slider is smoother than cherry so I definitely recommend gateron if you like smooth linear. Lastly, because you like linear and tactile, you definitely have to try Topre. It is tactile on the top and pure smooth linear to the the bottom. It's like curry wurst, if you like curry and wurst :D

Offline klennkellon

  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Southern California
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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 05:47:50 »
I see you haven't mentioned keycaps change. Different keycaps give you different feel mostly because of the keycaps weight. You should try it as well.

About brown switch hate, I myself like to put a bit of my history. My first mech keyboard is Filco with mx brown and after that I bought mx red for office. Fast forward after ghetto cheap mod (o-rings), keyboards, switches, and some keycaps set, now I type mostly on light linear switches (50g Sprit, cherry shell with gateron clear slider), occasionally gateron blue for the click sound or Topre for the Zen-like bliss. Now, I don't like MX brown anymore, it almost become a hate. The first reason is that it feels like broken red if I don't use the Filco stock keycaps. This can be replicate if you're using thick o-ring and thick pbt keycaps. Lastly, if compared to topre/mx clear/ergo clear/zealios/matias tactile, its tactility is pretty much rubbish. The plum 35 topre clones are really interesting. it's like linear topre.

There is some tactility cause it's still a rubber dome but its very very very subtle as you'd expect 35g topre to feel like.

About linear, IMHO, present Cherry is actually the furthest of definition of smooth linear, unless you have the vintage black. Newer cherry slider has rough surface, it feels like there is perpetual sand inside your switch, I hate it very much. I haven't tried their silent switch line up but people says they have smooth sliders so maybe they are fixing this. Gateron slider is smoother than cherry so I definitely recommend gateron if you like smooth linear. Lastly, because you like linear and tactile, you definitely have to try Topre. It is tactile on the top and pure smooth linear to the the bottom. It's like curry wurst, if you like curry and wurst :D

Offline pr0ximity

  • Posts: 2705
  • Location: Maine
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 06:54:35 »
Out of all my keyboards I would go with my Realforce for long-form reliable, comfortable typing. No harsh bottom-out, good tactile feedback, nice weight, great keycap profile and build quality.

Model F would be close but the hard steel plate isn't super comfortable if you type hard, and calibration has a tendency to drift and can cause issues.

Beamspring would be absolutely ideal but requires excellent ergonomic form from the user otherwise you're going to have a bad time.

The Alps I have don't afford great flow, I think they need some lube. MX is a good compromise but I have exotic taste in MX linears. Tactile and clicky MX are chintzy.
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Offline happylacquer

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 07:39:42 »
Why f*** with springs of MX style switches if none feel right to you? Get a damn BS board and be done with it. Pc keyboard dot com is the hookup. F*** MX, F*** gateron. Go topre or go BS.

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2302
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 12:32:27 »
If you have a real preference of one type of switch (clicky, tactile, linear), but the weight just isn't right for you, maybe consider modding the switch to put a custom spring weight in. That way you can have both the feel and weight you want.

Doesn't work for Topre switches. The only way to get more resistance is to get a different dome sheet, and AFAIK there are only three Topre domes to choose from: 35cN, 45cN, and 55cN.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 08 March 2017, 18:47:56 »
If you have a real preference of one type of switch (clicky, tactile, linear), but the weight just isn't right for you, maybe consider modding the switch to put a custom spring weight in. That way you can have both the feel and weight you want.

Doesn't work for Topre switches. The only way to get more resistance is to get a different dome sheet, and AFAIK there are only three Topre domes to choose from: 35cN, 45cN, and 55cN.

You can get in between the weights if you spend a lot of time with the domes. My RF is 40g uniform.
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 09 March 2017, 19:07:05 »
Why f*** with springs of MX style switches if none feel right to you? Get a damn BS board and be done with it. Pc keyboard dot com is the hookup. F*** MX, F*** gateron. Go topre or go BS.
For once, I agree that buckling springs are the best overall option.

Offline TheNamesTy45

  • Posts: 324
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Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 09 March 2017, 20:19:28 »
If you have a real preference of one type of switch (clicky, tactile, linear), but the weight just isn't right for you, maybe consider modding the switch to put a custom spring weight in. That way you can have both the feel and weight you want.

Doesn't work for Topre switches. The only way to get more resistance is to get a different dome sheet, and AFAIK there are only three Topre domes to choose from: 35cN, 45cN, and 55cN.

Good catch. I was specifically talking about Cherry type switches, but I didn't do much to clarify that.

Offline killyou

  • Posts: 264
  • Location: Poland
Re: What switch type should I try for long-form writing?
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 10 March 2017, 06:29:49 »
I'm just a noob and tried only few switches but my favourites so far were Topre 45g (haven't tried other Topres). Right now I'm using Outemu Browns which are "VERY nice for the price"™ but I'm looking to acquire a board with MX Clears and lube them or even make ergo clears. So if not Topre then maybe MX Clears/Ergo Clears/Zealios would be an option for you.