My first ever mech is proving to be a pain in the wrist...

[stargazy_pie]

After several months of lurking I finally went ahead and bought the mechanical keyboard of my dreams...the HHKB pro 2.  And while I do like the layout it hasn't been love at first clack.

This last few months I've been training myself to touch type on my 2010 macbook pro, and I have been finding the transition to the HHKB difficult.  Initially I found that the taller keys and longer key travel of my mech made me a lot sloppier, though I'm sure that is something that improves over time.  However, something I am rather more worried about is that typing is a lot more painful.  I find that I can't type for very long on keybr at full speed without developing pains in my wrists.

What can I do?  Do I need to invest in a wrist rest?  Is the problem with my posture?

Look forward to hearing your advice.

[user 18]

How do you hold your hands when you type? You should float your wrists while actually typing, rather than resting them on any surface. Even if you did buy a wrist rest, it would ideally only be used for resting your wrists while not actually typing.

[rowdy]

Could be posture-related.

Maybe you are over-compensating for the taller keyboard?

[tp4tissue]

make typing video.. then we can see.

[Hypersphere]

As others have wisely advised, do not rest your wrists on anything while typing. Your hands and wrists should be in a straight line.

With the right posture, you should be able to type on just about any mechanical keyboard without suffering repetitive strain injury. This would include keyboards with IBM buckling springs, Topre, and Cherry mx switches, among others.

[nomaded]

Here's a second request for a video of how you type on the keyboard.

A common problem is that the keyboard / desk is too high compared to how you are sitting. Try to keep your forearms parallel to the ground, with your elbows forming a 90 deg angle.

Another common problem is the front of the keyboard is too low compared to the back. Try putting something under the front (closest to you) edge of the keyboard, so that all the keys are parallel to the ground.

[Altis]

Here's a second request for a video of how you type on the keyboard.

A common problem is that the keyboard / desk is too high compared to how you are sitting. Try to keep your forearms parallel to the ground, with your elbows forming a 90 deg angle.

Another common problem is the front of the keyboard is too low compared to the back. Try putting something under the front (closest to you) edge of the keyboard, so that all the keys are parallel to the ground.

These are some good tips. A good test may be to put the keyboard on your knees and try typing -- I find that position to be very neutral.

I think the key is to make sure your wrists are as natural (and straight) as can be.

I don't think the HHKB is particularly hard on the hands/wrists/fingers, but the Apple keyboards tend to be very ergonomic too. You might just be used to shorter and bouncier keystrokes.

[steve.v]

Yea, your wrists should be resting on a flat soft pad/foam parallel to your keyboard. Hovering wrists when typing w/o support can be bad and cause joint muscle strain & fatigue. When using a laptop, make sure it is out and in front of you at a comfortable height when typing/using; it's possible some source of the pain/discomfort is coming from laptop usage and not a layout issue; unless your typing positions changed when using the new keyboard.

[jacobolus]

The #1 most important thing is to have your wrists in as straight/neutral a position as possible. Make sure you sit up straight without slouching (or else frequently change sitting positions; slouching for hours on end is pretty bad for you). You want to have your shoulders relaxed and your upper arms hanging down naturally at your sides. Ideally you want your elbows bent at a 90° or greater angle, but this is IMO not as important as other posture features (but note I’m not a doctor or physical therapist, so YMMV). If there’s any upward or downward angle to your wrists, then your keyboard is tilted wrong for the desk height.

If you are forced to use a desk that’s too high and/or a chair that’s too low (e.g. you’re at a coffee shop with a laptop, or using a computer at a library, or your boss won’t let you adjust your cubicle setup), then it’s better to still keep your upper arms hanging straight down at your sides in a relaxed position (instead of reaching forward or letting your elbows stick out to the side, or letting your shoulders stay in a permanent shrug), and then tilt the keyboard to whatever amount you need to get your wrists to be as straight as possible. You’ll notice old typewriters and keyboards have a very steep keyboard tilt. This is because they were designed to be used with a high desk (and the keyboards were additionally quite tall). If you have a high desk, you should flip down the keyboard feet if you have some, and possibly even pile some stuff up behind the keyboard to prop the back up. Again, the goal is to get your wrists to be straight.

Better than that though is to figure out how to place the keyboard on a surface that is low enough so that your elbows can be at a 90° or greater angle. If you can manage such a low position (e.g. by sitting on a tall saddle stool, or by using a low desk or keyboard tray, or by placing the keyboard on your lap, or by using a standing desk), you want to make sure that the keyboard is appropriately tilted to be flat across the top, or even negatively angled (i.e. with the front higher than the back). Yet again, pick the keyboard tilt such that you can type comfortably with your wrists in as straight and neutral a position as possible.

Did I mention yet to keep your wrists straight?

[jacobolus]

Hovering wrists when typing w/o support can be bad and cause joint muscle strain & fatigue.

I think this is nonsense. Plenty of professional secretaries/data entry clerks/transcriptionists/etc. type without any kind of palm support for hours at a time every day. Other professionals, such as pianists, drummers, stenographers, and chefs, also hold their wrists up for hours at a time every day without any palmrest in sight.

Having your wrists “hovering” while typing lets you more easily move your hands around, and take some of the typing load up into the big muscles in your upper arm.

In my opinion palmrests are best used when resting, not when actively typing.

That said, as always, YMMV. If you find using a palmrest to be more comfortable than not using one, and you’re not getting any pain from typing, go ahead and use a palmrest.

[Oobly]

This = bad 




This = good


Mkay?

[Gerk]

Hovering wrists when typing w/o support can be bad and cause joint muscle strain & fatigue.

I think this is nonsense. Plenty of professional secretaries/data entry clerks/transcriptionists/etc. type without any kind of palm support for hours at a time every day. Other professionals, such as pianists, drummers, stenographers, and chefs, also hold their wrists up for hours at a time every day without any palmrest in sight.

Having your wrists �hovering� while typing lets you more easily move your hands around, and take some of the typing load up into the big muscles in your upper arm.

In my opinion palmrests are best used when resting, not when actively typing.

That said, as always, YMMV. If you find using a palmrest to be more comfortable than not using one, and you�re not getting any pain from typing, go ahead and use a palmrest.

I strongly agree here.  The biggest and best thing for my issues has been proper arm support while typing.  I anchor my elbows comfortably on my chair's arm rests and keep my wrists flat.  Personally I find that wrist rests promote bad typing posture -- but each to their own.  If you "rest" a lot while keeping your hands on the keyboard then go for it, but personally I think resting your wrists on them while typing is a bad idea.

[Oobly]

Yea, your wrists should be resting on a flat soft pad/foam parallel to your keyboard. Hovering wrists when typing w/o support can be bad and cause joint muscle strain & fatigue. When using a laptop, make sure it is out and in front of you at a comfortable height when typing/using; it's possible some source of the pain/discomfort is coming from laptop usage and not a layout issue; unless your typing positions changed when using the new keyboard.

I 100% disagree with this, and 100% agree with jacobolus. Having the wrists resting on a soft surface while typing can lead to all kind of bad things, it puts pressure on the blood vessels (which can cause fatigue and loss of sensation), nerves (nerve damage, numbness, etc) and tendons / ligaments (RSI and carpal tunnel) and promotes upward wrist angles (RSI and carpal tunnel).

This also applies to some degree to mouse use. I used a mousepad with integrated silicone wrist rest briefly and starting having wrist and hand pain and pinkie and ring finger numbness. Once I figured out it was due to resting my wrist on the pad I ditched it and my problems went away in a couple of weeks.

Floating the hands with the wrists in line with the arms is far, far better. If you do a lot of gaming, a high palm rest and raised block at the base of the mousepad can help for long sessions. You can rest the hard little nub at the base of the palm on it without causing any major health issues as long as it is high enough to give you a straight wrist angle and you take enough breaks.

[ideus]

Key ergonomics for typing are 90 degree angle at the elbows, near zero degree at the wrists. With a proper sitting position -straight back, and neck- your lap could be the best place for your keyboard, thus any keyboard tray at that level, or close enough should work well.

Injuries came after no natural positions for body parts keep for long periods, and in a repetitive way.

[steve.v]

Yea, your wrists should be resting on a flat soft pad/foam parallel to your keyboard. Hovering wrists when typing w/o support can be bad and cause joint muscle strain & fatigue. When using a laptop, make sure it is out and in front of you at a comfortable height when typing/using; it's possible some source of the pain/discomfort is coming from laptop usage and not a layout issue; unless your typing positions changed when using the new keyboard.

I 100% disagree with this, and 100% agree with jacobolus. Having the wrists resting on a soft surface while typing can lead to all kind of bad things, it puts pressure on the blood vessels (which can cause fatigue and loss of sensation), nerves (nerve damage, numbness, etc) and tendons / ligaments (RSI and carpal tunnel) and promotes upward wrist angles (RSI and carpal tunnel).

This also applies to some degree to mouse use. I used a mousepad with integrated silicone wrist rest briefly and starting having wrist and hand pain and pinkie and ring finger numbness. Once I figured out it was due to resting my wrist on the pad I ditched it and my problems went away in a couple of weeks.

Floating the hands with the wrists in line with the arms is far, far better. If you do a lot of gaming, a high palm rest and raised block at the base of the mousepad can help for long sessions. You can rest the hard little nub at the base of the palm on it without causing any major health issues as long as it is high enough to give you a straight wrist angle and you take enough breaks.

Unless you don't use the keyboard for long sessions or type fast, I guess one may not need a wrist rest. I transcribe and code for a living and participate regularly on typeracer, 120wpm avg, and a wrist rest really helps alleviate long session fatigue. Quite a number of top typers, guys way faster than me, on typeracers actually use the grifiti wrist rest, what I have, or a space foam pad for support. What also helps me is rest and excercise; taking breaks helps me code through the night without any discomfort. As a grade 7 certified pianist I may have built enough strength in the wrist to overcome its usage, but I seem to have a great comfort using it so it's not something I would throw away. It won't hurt to try what may work as you're already having some pain.

[Bromono]

I find a wrist rest super useful. I work IT for a living and usually on a server all day. I rest my wrists on the wrist rest for the most part and have no problems. Only when I am scripting do I take my wrists off it as I type faster that way.

[Oobly]

How high is your desk relative to your chair? If you have a too high arm angle a wrist rest can be close to the correct position and then it feels fine to use it, although the overall setup is not ideal. Raised arms reduces blood flow to the wrists and hands, which is bad when you're actively using them to type.

My point is that a wrist rest is fine if it's used as a rest and SHOULD not be used while typing since with a proper ergonomic setup, doing so would create a too large wrist angle.

Advising someone to get a wrist rest when you don't know the rest of their setup is irresponsible and could promote bad typing practices and result in poor health long term. Just because it works for you in your setup does not mean that it's fine for everyone in theirs, especially considering your setup may not be the same as theirs and neither may be ergonomically sound.

Better to advise a proper complete ergonomic setup as jacobolus and ideus have done (straight back, straight upper arms, 90 degree or more lower arms, correct keyboard angle and straight wrists) and note that a wrist rest is useful as a rest. Having the wrists raised off the surface allows other muscle groups to become involved and reduces fatigue as jacobolus noted as well as preventing injuries sustainable by having pressure on the wrists and / or having poor wrist angle.

[fxtannier]

How high is your desk relative to your chair? If you have a too high arm angle a wrist rest can be close to the correct position and then it feels fine to use it, although the overall setup is not ideal. Raised arms reduces blood flow to the wrists and hands, which is bad when you're actively using them to type.

My point is that a wrist rest is fine if it's used as a rest and SHOULD not be used while typing since with a proper ergonomic setup, doing so would create a too large wrist angle.

Advising someone to get a wrist rest when you don't know the rest of their setup is irresponsible and could promote bad typing practices and result in poor health long term. Just because it works for you in your setup does not mean that it's fine for everyone in theirs, especially considering your setup may not be the same as theirs and neither may be ergonomically sound.

Better to advise a proper complete ergonomic setup as jacobolus and ideus have done (straight back, straight upper arms, 90 degree or more lower arms, correct keyboard angle and straight wrists) and note that a wrist rest is useful as a rest. Having the wrists raised off the surface allows other muscle groups to become involved and reduces fatigue as jacobolus noted as well as preventing injuries sustainable by having pressure on the wrists and / or having poor wrist angle.

I disagree with this. An ergonomic setup is important, but the way a user types is most important. Some of your suggestions are too subjective and opinionated poorly at best. You can't suggest other things without knowing how the user actually types. Have you seen him/her type? I don't know if he/she is typing incorrectly but I would suggest to keep her arms from the elbows 90 degrees and make sure her wrists are straight. Theres nothing wrong to suggest a wrist rest, so many people use some kind of rest thingy although I find it unnecessary for me.

[Joebroniee]

I lift up my wrists when I type. I have a grifiti slim wristpad and only the bottom of my forearms touch the pad. I've also found out that when i first got my wrist pad, they weren't meant to type on while your wrists are on them. Caused a bit of pain on the wrist also when typing for long amounts of time. I do recommend practice with your wrists slightly lifted, makes keystrokes lighter too vs when your wrist is angled.