I think Hypersphere rings are overpriced

[tp4tissue]

Guyz.. I understand ya'll want to silence your hhkbs and do topre conversions.. it's fun, it's cool, it's hip

But you should not support Hypersphere , because it's borderline criminal to be charging you guys $60 for something worth 50 cents.

For example...

This set of o-rings off ebay,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-50x-Rubber-O-Ring-Assorted-Sizes-Set-Kit-For-Plumbing-Tap-Seal-Sink-Thread-/371823991832?hash=item56926fdc18:g:AHIAAOSwJ7RYYJT3


Costs $1.66 w free shipping ....  That's..... One dollar and sixty six cents

This is a profit price, meaning it costs less than $1.66 to make those 50 orings..


Hyperspheres are not super duper Orings, there's nothing super special about the material, or production cost.

Yet they are charging you guys $60..

 

How are you guys NOT angry about this.. ??

[tp4tissue]

Another example.. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topre-to-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-Adapter-Converter-Realforce-HHKB-Capacitive-Keyboards/222462180846?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3De0c8a7d1102b470f86e379deb3373e7e%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252039561227



This set of ENTIRE sliders + Oring costs  $42.99  for 90

Entire sliders + Oring..

For hypersphere to have the audacity to charge you guys $60 for a tiny pack of rubber sheet rings.. WTF..

[xondat]

Criminals is the wrong word, but it is super over priced.

[tp4tissue]

Criminals is the wrong word, but it is super over priced.

I don't think Hypersphere may be a bad person..

But what he's charging is Fked up..


I'm not angry, but he needs to be stopped.. and we must at least tell the geekhacker novices that this pricing is NOT RIGHT...

[xondat]

Criminals is the wrong word, but it is super over priced.

I don't think Hypersphere may be a bad person..

But what he's charging is Fked up..

Agreed. They aren't breaking any laws though. And with no competition they have the "market" cornered.

[tp4tissue]

Criminals is the wrong word, but it is super over priced.

I don't think Hypersphere may be a bad person..

But what he's charging is Fked up..

Agreed. They aren't breaking any laws though. And with no competition they have the "market" cornered.

They do not have the market cornered.. for example.. that 90 sliders set comes with orings AND mx-compatible keycap sliders, are only cost $42

You get new sliders AND orings.

 

Even if the market is cornered however,   it is not right to be on geekhack, selling $0.50  items for $60..   


To allow him to continue doing that here is being irresponsible to the users..

[romevi]

Bueno.

[dgneo]

Guys.. I know you want to silence your hhkbs and do topre conversions..

But you should not support Hypersphere , because they are criminals at charging you guys $60 for something worth 50 cents.

For example

This set of orings off ebay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-50x-Rubber-O-Ring-Assorted-Sizes-Set-Kit-For-Plumbing-Tap-Seal-Sink-Thread-/371823991832?hash=item56926fdc18:g:AHIAAOSwJ7RYYJT3

Costs $1.66..  One dollar and sixty six cents

That is a profit price, meaning it costs less than $1.66 to make 50 orings..


Hyperspheres are just Orings, there's nothing special about the material, or production cost.

Yet they are charging you guys $60..



How much are hyperspheres people getting them for.. Most likely less than $0.10 for 1000..



How are you guys NOT angry about this.. ??

because he doesn't sell o-rings....

EDIT: not to mention the link you posted contains random ass sizes, nor enough to cover even an hhkb

[tp4tissue]

because he doesn't sell o-rings....

Hypersphere   is a 2 ply rubber sheet. 

It's a softer sheet of rubber bonded to another harder substrate.


This hypersphere does not cost significantly more than an oring to produce.

You make a sheet, then you punch them out.

The sheets costs are within 5 US Cents per square meter.


Now imagine how many rings you can punch from a sheet as large as this.




Again.. I am merely trying to inform ya'll that what he's selling is NOT anything close to $60 worth of labor or material..   

This quantity and type of goods is in the Less than $1.00 category in production cost..



dgneo,  if you have a relationship with hypersphere the user,  please understand that I am not chastising hypersphere the person.. he may well be a decent person.


But the hypersphere business he's running is borderline robbery..

[LiquidEvilGaming]

While they are expensive it is a Capitalist society (at least here in the US) and with no competition and not enough demand to mass market they can charge whatever they want really.  Personally I would not pay that much though.

[tp4tissue]

While they are expensive it is a Capitalist society (at least here in the US) and with no competition and not enough demand to mass market they can charge whatever they want really.  Personally I would not pay that much though.

This thread only serves to inform the novice users coming into this hobby the value point of each product...

You've been in this long enough to understand that it's way overpriced, and may avoid it, but that population is not everyone, and especially not the newbies..


They should not be paying $60 of their hard earned money for 50cents worth of product..


With or without the market cornered..  They should not submit to that kind of abuse..

[dgneo]

because he doesn't sell o-rings....

Hypersphere   is a 2 ply rubber sheet. 

It's a softer sheet of rubber bonded to another harder substrate.


This hypersphere does not cost significantly more than an oring to produce.

You make a sheet, then you punch them out.

The sheets costs are within 5 US Cents per cubic meter.


Now imagine how many rings you can punch from a sheet as large as this.




Again.. I am merely trying to inform ya'll that what he's selling is NOT anything close to $60 worth of labor or material..   

This quantity and type of goods is in the Less than $1.00 category in production cost..



dgneo,  if you have a relationship with hypersphere the user,  please understand that I am not chastising hypersphere the person..


But that business he's running is borderline robbery..

No relationship at all, just think it's real ****ty of you to come in here telling everyone not to support him, just because he's charging more than what a DIY solution would provide.

I paid for a set, and have no regrets at all. Not all of us have the time to hunt down what material would work the best for silencing topre, the size of the rings, the thickness of the rings, the hole puncher to do it, etc etc.

The same reason people pay $900 for the latest Apple/Samsung/LG/insert other phone maker here, even though it costs $25 to make: Convenience and Quality.

Do you make your own clothes, or do you buy them at the store? I'm assuming you make your own, seeing as the cost would be MUCH cheaper for some pieces of fabric, scissors, and needles.

[schoolbus]

Agreed that they're obnoxiously expensive.

I wish one of many many new random keyboard accessories shopify startups would provide competition in this market space rather than the oversaturated spring market.

Even if someone charged half what hyperspheres charged they'd still be overpriced, but at least more reasonable.

[tp4tissue]

No relationship at all, just think it's real ****ty of you to come in here telling everyone not to support him, just because he's charging more than what a DIY solution would provide.

The same reason people pay $900 for the latest Apple/Samsung/LG/insert other phone maker here, even though it costs $25 to make: Convenience and Quality.

Why is it ****ty of me to tell people that the product is overpriced..

Just because it's one seller does not make him less responsible than if a large corporation overcharged its users.


Telecom is robbing people for $60 a month for cellphone service..


Hypersphere is robbing people for $60 on rubber sheet rings..

[dante]

I look at Hypersphere's products from a different angle.  Like if someone from Topre heard that people were paying this much for O-Rings they would get it through their heads just to make them a standard feature.

If 9 out of 10 users want them then cut down on the permutations at assembly and make it so.

[tp4tissue]

I look at Hypersphere's products from a different angle.  Like if someone from Topre heard that people were paying this much for O-Rings they would get it through their heads just to make them a standard feature.

If 9 out of 10 users want them then cut down on the permutations at assembly and make it so.

From the stand point of topre, creating product differentiation artificially creates a Premium tier which command significant profit above equivalent production cost.

a lexus cost twice as much to buy vs a toyota, but it sure as hell does not cost twice as much to produce.



But the topic of the day is Hypersphere  way-way overcharging people..


And he's on geekhack promoting this stuff..   As long term users, we have some responsibility to inform the newer guys coming in that that pricing is off-kilter..

[minh278]

No relationship at all, just think it's real ****ty of you to come in here telling everyone not to support him, just because he's charging more than what a DIY solution would provide.

I paid for a set, and have no regrets at all. Not all of us have the time to hunt down what material would work the best for silencing topre, the size of the rings, the thickness of the rings, the hole puncher to do it, etc etc.

The same reason people pay $900 for the latest Apple/Samsung/LG/insert other phone maker here, even though it costs $25 to make: Convenience and Quality.

Why is it ****ty of me to tell people that the product is overpriced..

Just because it's one seller does not make him less responsible than if a large corporation overcharged its users.


Telecom is robbing people for $60 a month for cellphone service..


Hypersphere is robbing people for $60 for rubber sheet..

There are no real alternatives unless you have the ability to hole punch a sheet of pet yourself. I looked for o-rings that are as thin and to size, i could not find a single one. The key thing is thinness.

I see it similar to the headphones market. Yes a $300 dollar headphone will sound great but will a $600 headphone two times better? No. You start getting less performance to dollar as you move up. Such is the case with the hyperspheres. The chinese ones are 0.8mm thick(the thinness i could find that fit) while hyperspheres are 0.5mm, it comes down to how much is that 0.3mm worth to you.

Yes it was expensive, however there were no alternatives available, in my opinion, if you wanted to only reduce keytravel by 0.5mm. We could also say the same about zealios or even artisan keycaps, but at the end of the day it is what you are okay with.

[dgneo]

No relationship at all, just think it's real ****ty of you to come in here telling everyone not to support him, just because he's charging more than what a DIY solution would provide.

The same reason people pay $900 for the latest Apple/Samsung/LG/insert other phone maker here, even though it costs $25 to make: Convenience and Quality.

Why is it ****ty of me to tell people that the product is overpriced..

Just because it's one seller does not make him less responsible than if a large corporation overcharged its users.


Telecom is robbing people for $60 a month for cellphone service..


Hypersphere is robbing people for $60 on rubber sheet rings..

Gotcha, so when can we expect your run of ultra cheap silencing rings that rival Hypersphere's?

[tp4tissue]

There are no real alternatives unless you have the ability to hole punch a sheet of pet yourself. I looked for o-rings that are as thin and to size, i could not find a single one. The key thing is thinness.

I see it similar to the headphones market. Yes a $300 dollar headphone will sound great but will a $600 headphone two times better? No. You start getting less performance to dollar as you move up. Such is the case with the hyperspheres. The chinese ones are 0.8mm thick(the thinness i could find that fit) while hyperspheres are 0.5mm, it comes down to how much is that 0.3mm worth to you.

Yes it was expensive, however there were no alternatives available, in my opinion, if you wanted to only reduce keytravel by 0.5mm. We could also say the same about zealios or even artisan keycaps, but at the end of the day it is what you are okay with.

You are assuming we as buyers have no control over price..  But we do..

By informing each other,  educating each other on fair pricing..   We as a whole would resolve to buy less hypersphere, and some of us may resolve to buy none at all.

This thread is merely the informational stage explaining to everyone that hypersphere is significantly overcharging buyers..


The overcharge in this case is so severe,  that it could be considered --a **** move--.

[tp4tissue]

Gotcha, so when can we expect your run of ultra cheap silencing rings that rival Hypersphere's?

Now you're getting into the area of private wars..  That is not my intention..  Hypersphere can keep his business.. but he really should not be overcharging by so much..

There's making a profit,  and then there's fking people up the ass..

[dgneo]

Gotcha, so when can we expect your run of ultra cheap silencing rings that rival Hypersphere's?

Now you're getting into the area of private wars..  That is not my intention..  Hypersphere can keep his business.. but he really should not be overcharging by so much..

There's making a profit,  and then there's fking people up the ass..

But....but....they're so cheap! Why can't you make them for me?

You said $1.66 for O-Rings, I'll pay you $5 for you time to come up with/produce/sell a solution, that's a 200% RoI!

[xondat]

Gotcha, so when can we expect your run of ultra cheap silencing rings that rival Hypersphere's?

Now you're getting into the area of private wars..  That is not my intention..  Hypersphere can keep his business.. but he really should not be overcharging by so much..

There's making a profit,  and then there's fking people up the ass..

I agree with dgneo. You should start producing and selling your own at the cheaper price. It's the only way the price will come down; competition.

[tp4tissue]

Now you're getting into the area of private wars..  That is not my intention..  Hypersphere can keep his business.. but he really should not be overcharging by so much..

There's making a profit,  and then there's fking people up the ass..

I agree with dgneo. You should start producing and selling your own at the cheaper price. It's the only way the price will come down; competition.

Guys.. I'm glad ya'll have so much faith in Tp4, but if i were to sell you guys keyboard related goods,  I'd go full on with tp4 keycap project..

I would not  waste your time with little rubber rings.

But that project is on halt, because it's just too damn expensive to make that cap.

[dante]

You are assuming we as buyers have no control over price..  But we do..

By informing each other,  educating each other on fair pricing..   We as a whole would resolve to buy less hypersphere, and some of us may resolve to buy none at all.

Hypersphere isn't selling french fries he's selling a niche item for a niche keyboard inside of a niche market.

If I were him I'd milk the **** out of it.

[nickheller]

lol topre sucks anyway

[digi]

TP is our Public Defender!! THANK YOU BASED TP

[dgneo]

Gotcha, so when can we expect your run of ultra cheap silencing rings that rival Hypersphere's?

Now you're getting into the area of private wars..  That is not my intention..  Hypersphere can keep his business.. but he really should not be overcharging by so much..

There's making a profit,  and then there's fking people up the ass..

I agree with dgneo. You should start producing and selling your own at the cheaper price. It's the only way the price will come down; competition.

Guys.. I'm glad ya'll have so much faith in Tp4, but if i were to sell you guys keyboard related goods,  I'd go full on with tp4 keycap project..

I would not  waste your time with little rubber rings.

Oh perfect, this is WAY more useful than rubber rings! I'd imagine this only costs you a few dollars to make, how much are you looking to charge for these?

The second issue is.. the V2 deep groove is extremely time consuming to cut, it roughly triples the machining time..   so... if we had the shop produce V2-s, it'd be somewhere near almost $60 [USD] each..

The V1 would be cheaper around $45..

[tp4tissue]

You are assuming we as buyers have no control over price..  But we do..

By informing each other,  educating each other on fair pricing..   We as a whole would resolve to buy less hypersphere, and some of us may resolve to buy none at all.

Hypersphere isn't selling french fries he's selling a niche item for a niche keyboard inside of a niche market.

If I were him I'd milk the **** out of it.

Sure..

but we're on the other end of it..   we have users with --not alot of money--  being milked by this guy..


For some users, sure he's got them by the balls, $60 please.. cha ching..



But for the undecided users..  I only hope that this thread could talk them down a bit and rethink on what they can do with their $60

[tp4tissue]

Guys.. I'm glad ya'll have so much faith in Tp4, but if i were to sell you guys keyboard related goods,  I'd go full on with tp4 keycap project..

I would not  waste your time with little rubber rings.

Oh perfect, this is WAY more useful than rubber rings! I'd imagine this only costs you a few dollars to make, how much are you looking to charge for these?

hahahaha.. you are not an expert on machining..

I didn't quote the final price in the thread on the v2,  but each key is around 1 hour of machining time and 20 minutes of manual sanding to produce..

it could be cut on more high end machines, possssibly reducing the price, but it's still not cheap..

The final price will shock you, which is why I decided I could not with good intention sell something so ridiculous to geekhackers..

[tp4tissue]

TP is our Public Defender!! THANK YOU BASED TP

/Thumbs up..

[xondat]

Guys.. I'm glad ya'll have so much faith in Tp4, but if i were to sell you guys keyboard related goods,  I'd go full on with tp4 keycap project..

I would not  waste your time with little rubber rings.

Oh perfect, this is WAY more useful than rubber rings! I'd imagine this only costs you a few dollars to make, how much are you looking to charge for these?

hahahaha.. you are not an expert on machining..

I didn't quote the final price in the thread on the v2,  but each key is around 1 hour of machining time and 20 minutes of manual sanding to produce..

it could be cut on more high end machines, possssibly reducing the price, but it's still not cheap..

The final price will shock you, which is why I decided I could not with good intention sell something so ridiculous to geekhackers..

We've had $560+ retail customs, I'm sure none of us will be shocked any more.

[dante]

but we're on the other end of it..   we have users with --not alot of money--

Users without a lot of money won't/shouldn't be looking at Topre in the first place.

[ygor]

tp4 are you a bot?

[tp4tissue]

but we're on the other end of it..   we have users with --not alot of money--

Users without a lot of money won't/shouldn't be looking at Topre in the first place.

Some people dive hard, even without alot of money.

And they're being taken for a ride on hyperspheres..

This is foremost an educational thread for the novices entering the hobby. and REASONABLE buyers.


There are those who are too far gone.. and there's no hope of talking them out of Hyper-Overpriced-Rubber-Sheet-Rings

[tp4tissue]

tp4 are you a bot?

YES ~

Good bots, do not allow fellow humans to purchase over priced rubber sheet rings.

[ygor]

You realize your argument is applicable to nearly every product available in a capitalist society.

[tp4tissue]

Your argument is applicable to nearly every product available in a capitalist society.

Not true..

Grocery store bread is sold at a loss to drive up foot traffic..

Coscto Chicken is sold at a loss to drive up foot traffic.

[joey]

Your argument is applicable to nearly every product available in a capitalist society.

Not true..

Grocery store bread is sold at a loss to drive up foot traffic..

Coscto Chicken is sold at a loss to drive up foot traffic.

He did say "nearly"

[tp4tissue]

We've had $560+ retail customs, I'm sure none of us will be shocked any more.

Unlike hypersphere. Tp4 has a heart, and refrain from screwing fellow geekhackers.

[ygor]

Requested edit-

[tp4tissue]

lol topre sucks anyway

I can tell you're excited Nickheller

Let's not go --that route-- (for now) hahahaha.

[ygor]

Seize the market.

[DALExSNAIL]

[tp4tissue]

Show Image

Stopping hypersphere's train of tyranny is the goal..

hahahaha

[dante]

Show Image

Stopping hypersphere's train of tyranny is the goal..

There is no tyranny here.  Only glorious capitalism and a desire to be rewarded for putting in the work.

[tp4tissue]

Show Image

Stopping hypersphere's train of tyranny is the goal..

There is no tyranny here.  Only glorious capitalism and a desire to be rewarded for putting in the work.

Hahahaha.. Capitalism is good for many things..  but you only glorify it in places of convenience, for the sake of ur argument.

All the while , there are many things wrong with capitalism,   for example, you go to work like everyone else, why are you paid so much less for your time working for --the man-- while he reaps the lion share on the product of YOUR labor..

--that is tyranny--


Capitalism is glorious if you win..  But relative to the buyers that -hypersphere- is overcharging,   like you, they're being gamed.

[schoolbus]

Ultimately Hypersphere built his (or her?) business model around being relatively cheaper than buying a silenced Topre board and therefore is still stupid expensive when you're barely undercutting an already expensive thing- but is still cheaper and therefore has thrived (and they do work well).

TP's argument is that in reality if you ignore the outside noise the raw material cost is pennies and the margins are outrageous.

Basically, TP is pointing out that if anyone else puts in the effort they can easily undercut Hypersphere and should be able to seize the market.

I've seen this come up before in Reddit banter and usually some brave crusader claims they can do it for cheaper but I've never seen it actually happen.

So here we are.

[Moistgun]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

[tp4tissue]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

what did you pay for the dental bands.

[dgneo]

Hyperspheres are the artisans of silencing rings.

Imo beehatch's dental bands are just as good an really only lose in my book regarding long term quality.

I for one kinda feel dumb for paying what I did for them, but then again whatever Yolo Nam sayin

except dental bands feel like trash too