Author Topic: Right hand digraph ergonomics  (Read 4446 times)

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Offline decker

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Right hand digraph ergonomics
« on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 01:53:23 »
Hi,
If you need to type a digraph (two characters) with your right hand, what do you feel is more natural :
- index first then middle finger
- ring then middle finger
- some other sequence ?

For instance on the numpad, does it feel more natural to type : 45 or 65 ?
I'm asking because, I'm looking at a layout idea where (), <>, {} and [] are on Shift+Numpad.
So should I put () on 45 or )( on 56 or some other way around...

Thanks

Offline Zutatensuppe

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 02:58:47 »
Hm, interesting thought, but for me there is no difference there.

But I will make a humble guess:

I think the natural feel comes from the layout and how often the digraph apears in a specific order. Thus it is only learned and there is no ideal natural order.
For example, I have () {} on right hand and it feels more natural with the order index ({ -> ring }). But on the left hand I have [] and it feels more natural in ring [ -> index ] order.
Maybe it even makes sense and feels natural to have { on left and } on right hand, but same finger? I don't know ^^


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 10:22:04 »
with enough finger repetition, any combination could feel natural.

Offline decker

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 10:23:00 »
You are probably right about learned movements.

However I do feel that it is more natural while making noise with your hand to do :
Pinky, ring, middle and index and not the other way around.

Don't you think ?

Offline AMongoose

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 09:49:13 »
You are probably right about learned movements.

However I do feel that it is more natural while making noise with your hand to do :
Pinky, ring, middle and index and not the other way around.

Don't you think ?

Going from index to pinky requires me to move my sholder while i can move from pinky to index rotating only my elbow.

I think that's because when I rest my hand the pinky knuckle is the lowest one.
To go from pinky to index I just lower the rest of the hand where doing the oposite requieres me to first lower my index and then the rest of the fingers.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 09:57:40 »
You are probably right about learned movements.

However I do feel that it is more natural while making noise with your hand to do :
Pinky, ring, middle and index and not the other way around.

Don't you think ?




I don't remember which one felt more natural -origin story-..  but after piano,  it all feels even.

Offline decker

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 11:43:18 »
at is funny is that if I put my right hand on the numpad and type 65 trying to make a rhythm several times I can help hitting a 4 by mistake...
65 654 654 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 654 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 65 654 65 65 654 65 65

If I time 45 I can't get a rhythm and I get it backwards so times.
45 45 45 45 45 54 54 54 54 55 45 45 54 45 54 54 45 45 45 54 45 54 45 45 45 45 54 54 55 45 44 54 54 55 45 45 45 45

Just try it !

Offline stevep

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 05:27:32 »
I'm asking because, I'm looking at a layout idea where (), <>, {} and [] are on Shift+Numpad.

The standard positions for brackets are indeed unsatisfactory, especially for people who type them a lot (programmers!).

Shift+Numpad doesn't seem very convenient to me either. I would put those characters, plus any other useful symbols, in a separate layer and have them on or near your home keys. I use AltGr for this purpose. Here is an example AltGr layer, obviously you could define your own custom layer to your taste.

« Last Edit: Thu, 29 September 2016, 05:32:36 by stevep »

Offline yellowfour

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 05:42:09 »
the best digraph is ring-to-index. their tendons are independent from each other and they are the fastest fingers. So the answer to your question is (64).

AltGr is a great way to type in punctuation (aka puncs). Arensito is great example of a layout that is properly set-up for typing code using the AltGr layer. When optimizing new layouts for code, it's imperative to compare against Arensito.


Offline AMongoose

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 09:29:51 »
the best digraph is ring-to-index. their tendons are independent from each other and they are the fastest fingers. So the answer to your question is (64).

Great insight! Can you elaborate on why is 64 better than 46? I feel it is better but would like to understand why.

Arensito looks very cool. I'll have to try it out.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Right hand digraph ergonomics
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 10:38:07 »
the best digraph is ring-to-index. their tendons are independent from each other and they are the fastest fingers. So the answer to your question is (64).

AltGr is a great way to type in punctuation (aka puncs). Arensito is great example of a layout that is properly set-up for typing code using the AltGr layer. When optimizing new layouts for code, it's imperative to compare against Arensito.




Under the assumption that the WRIST is 100% stationary, and ONLY the fingers move,  you would be correct,

However, the wrist is not stationary, and rolls against the fingers to provide a point of leverage.

There is no Best digraph