Author Topic: What Zip?  (Read 1370 times)

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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 20:52:33 »
Basically the exact same. I use both depending on how I open it, most of the time I don't even notice which one.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 21:17:02 »
I have used 7 Zip for years. No problems.
“The mass of Trump companies is justifiably called Byzantine. It’s a deliberate labyrinth of connections, some of them intended to maximize Trump’s tax benefits — like the company that supposedly owns Trump’s planes and leases them to the other companies, all of which are just Trump, allowing for a double-dip on deductions. Other companies seem to exist for no purpose other than to make investigating Trump’s finances more complicated and more difficult to penetrate.”
– Marc Sumner 2019-05-19

Offline yui

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 01:10:17 »
well paid vs free
7Zip is pretty much better in every way but user interface now, and is free, you technically should get a WinRar license to use it. so i know which one i choose (actually neither, i am on linux, so i use KDE Ark :))
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 01:58:21 »
Ark!
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Offline yui

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 02:58:44 »
Ark!
it is available on windows? i am pretty sure TP4 is a windows user, and Ark being part of KDE isn't on windows?
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 04:43:11 »
it is available on windows? i am pretty sure TP4 is a windows user, and Ark being part of KDE isn't on windows?
Nope.
I only use Windows when I have to.
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Offline foxieze

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 04:55:50 »
I've always used 7Zip - I doubt I've even installed WinRar on any of my computers. This is for 2 reasons I can think of from the top of my head:
  • 7Zip is actually free - no stupid pop-up everytime you open it
  • 7Zip has every so slightly faster extraction speeds (maybe?) - I can never be sure of it but when I looked at in the past I think it was.

My first point is of course the bigger factor in this as the difference in speed is so small.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 05:20:21 »
Are either built in to windows yet?  If so that one.  If not 7zip makes standard zips for free so that's better, can't be bothered helping clueless newbies to open things...

Personally I use whatever came with XFCE4, it's GTK but never opened it other than by clicking on files to (un)zip so no idea what it's called :-[
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 06:51:47 »
I've read some concerns about 7zip and -ru55ians hax- ?


Offline dgneo

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 07:39:21 »
7zip

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 08:19:10 »
I've read some concerns about 7zip and -ru55ians hax- ?

Feel free to search the source code for anything network related, sounds like something a WinRAR employee might say to an anti vaxer to me - big projects like 7zip surely don't merge code blindly.

Russia is a big country with long winters so lots of open source code comes from normal people there, not specifically 7zip just in general.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 08:48:29 »
Feel free to search the source code for anything network related, sounds like something a WinRAR employee might say to an anti vaxer to me - big projects like 7zip surely don't merge code blindly.

Russia is a big country with long winters so lots of open source code comes from normal people there, not specifically 7zip just in general.


All for open source, but we also trust in the bystander effect, everyone assumes someone ELSE is looking, meanwhile no one or too few are actually looking. Despite open source, it leaves room for actors with deliberate intentions to act in nefarious ways.

Offline dingusxmcgee

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 08:55:28 »
7zip

Offline Olumin

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 10:56:56 »
Buying WinRAR is the secret way to get into heaven.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:50:39 »
Buying WinRAR is the secret way to get into heaven.

U know Tp4 = p00r



Offline dingusxmcgee

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 12:10:40 »
Buying WinRAR is the secret way to get into heaven.

U know Tp4 = p00r


Show Image

We can crowdfund you a license to heaven

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 15:08:14 »
We can crowdfund you a license to heaven

Pretty sure it's in the winrar license somewhere that you go to hell if you didn't purchase it directly.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 18:01:37 »
I've read some concerns about 7zip and -ru55ians hax- ?

You're using Windows. On the internet.
The only people not watching are either too stupid or don't care to.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 18:17:24 »
I've read some concerns about 7zip and -ru55ians hax- ?

You're using Windows. On the internet.
The only people not watching are either too stupid or don't care to.


Offline phinix

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 25 April 2021, 16:47:00 »
I use 7zip at work.
Winrar shareware at home.

I guess they both same.
I like winrar cause I'm nostalgia driven:)

Anybody remember ARJ? :D
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Offline Sintpinty

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 25 April 2021, 21:55:50 »

Offline yui

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 00:49:09 »
Feel free to search the source code for anything network related, sounds like something a WinRAR employee might say to an anti vaxer to me - big projects like 7zip surely don't merge code blindly.

Russia is a big country with long winters so lots of open source code comes from normal people there, not specifically 7zip just in general.


All for open source, but we also trust in the bystander effect, everyone assumes someone ELSE is looking, meanwhile no one or too few are actually looking. Despite open source, it leaves room for actors with deliberate intentions to act in nefarious ways.

you have the choice, either go with the one that may be checked or one that is most definitely not, and 7Zip is a huge project now, and used by sizable companies, so it will be under a fair bit of scrutiny, like the linux kernel (there was a story a years back of the CIA or FBI trying to disable the RNG in the linux kernel, and it was caught long before the merge) and that there is rusian code make sence, and with a name like Igor Pavlov i'd guess that 7Zip BDFL is for east Europe/Russia so likely were the rusian hack thing came from
(although i think 7Zip has network code, as i think it can check for updates and access network files with its FM)
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 06:28:46 »
All for open source, but we also trust in the bystander effect, everyone assumes someone ELSE is looking, meanwhile no one or too few are actually looking. Despite open source, it leaves room for actors with deliberate intentions to act in nefarious ways. [/size][/color]

Yes and very much, NO.
It's a strawman argument.

Are you auditing Microsoft's code? How about Apple?

Yes, anyone can submit code and yes in all honesty few eyes are watching (would you even know what to look for?), however it's not like most patches are big and difficult for the people in charge and looking to parse. They know the code and they know what your patch is supposed to be doing and they can spot something funny. You aren't going to submit code to the kernel, KDE,  Gnome or Firefox and have it merged without the people in charge looking at it and if by some reason your code did actually manage to get past those particular eyeballs someone is probably going to notice your funny business right away because so much open source is heavily used on servers that people spend entire days just watching cpu loads and com port traffic.

Linux is patched by people who use it, they have a vested interest in making sure it works as well as possible. Microsoft and Apple work in a similar but also opposite way, yes they make money from it working but it costs them money when they have to actually fix problems as such many go unpatched. If Microsoft had to pay for every malware infected system I guarantee you they'd find a way to reduce it and yet how many years have we had drive-by malware now? 

Okay, sure, no one is slipping code in behind the scenes, or are they/have they? How would you know? MS doesn't want to tell you they got hacked, in fact they do all they can to hide that fact. Why? Because it costs them money because now they actually have to do something about it. How long has it taken MS to deal with that recently found exploit? Weeks now? And those people were all over the MS servers, do you know if they planted something? Or how about a rogue employee?  You will never know unless it's big enough to make headlines.

Think they can't catch it?
https://linux.slashdot.org/story/21/04/21/1521248/linux-bans-university-of-minnesota-for-sending-buggy-patches-in-the-name-of-research
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 08:38:49 »
Well, that's the thing,  how are we SO SURE, that the people IN CHARGE haven't been flipped.  It would take trivial amount of money to motivate these (alleged) impartial free-coders.

We can assume most people have moral conviction stronger than $10,000.  But Corporations and Governments can add several zeros to that. It seems unreasonable to assume these large projects are difficult to infiltrate if they possess espionage value.

Offline yui

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 09:23:08 »
Well, that's the thing,  how are we SO SURE, that the people IN CHARGE haven't been flipped.  It would take trivial amount of money to motivate these (alleged) impartial free-coders.

We can assume most people have moral conviction stronger than $10,000.  But Corporations and Governments can add several zeros to that. It seems unreasonable to assume these large projects are difficult to infiltrate if they possess espionage value.

so only for linux you would need to corrupt Linus Torvalds, good luck with that for a start, and then you would need to add several 0s to take into account all the freelancers, and companies (Ex, Google) that keep on checking it, it would actually be much cheaper and safer to ask MS to add a backdoor to their OS. projects like Linux, 7Zip, Firefox, Chromium etc. have a lot of invested companies in them, and 1000s of peoples checking it because it either is their job, their hobby, or they are paranoid, and especially this last group would be very problematic to pay off wouldn't they? for one finding them may get hard, and two you give them validation of their paranoia, and guess what they will do with that, keep it for themselves?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 09:35:35 »
Well, that's the thing,  how are we SO SURE, that the people IN CHARGE haven't been flipped.  It would take trivial amount of money to motivate these (alleged) impartial free-coders.

We can assume most people have moral conviction stronger than $10,000.  But Corporations and Governments can add several zeros to that. It seems unreasonable to assume these large projects are difficult to infiltrate if they possess espionage value.

so only for linux you would need to corrupt Linus Torvalds, good luck with that for a start, and then you would need to add several 0s to take into account all the freelancers, and companies (Ex, Google) that keep on checking it, it would actually be much cheaper and safer to ask MS to add a backdoor to their OS. projects like Linux, 7Zip, Firefox, Chromium etc. have a lot of invested companies in them, and 1000s of peoples checking it because it either is their job, their hobby, or they are paranoid, and especially this last group would be very problematic to pay off wouldn't they? for one finding them may get hard, and two you give them validation of their paranoia, and guess what they will do with that, keep it for themselves?


You don't need to get to all of them, you just need a few. They would all be sorted by personality and life circumstance before hand. You'd engage with the one most likely to be flippable/ corruptible or coerce-able. Lots of people have things to hide. No one is immune to compromise, even millionaires/ billionaires/ PRESIDENTS.

Offline yui

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 10:21:17 »

You don't need to get to all of them, you just need a few. They would all be sorted by personality and life circumstance before hand. You'd engage with the one most likely to be flippable/ corruptible or coerce-able. Lots of people have things to hide. No one is immune to compromise, even millionaires/ billionaires/ PRESIDENTS.

let's say you flip 50% of all contributors, what will prevent the other 50% to, if bdfl is not corupted, just kick them out, or fork the project, and of divulging that there was tempering and fixing your expensive backdoor? if the source are available your backdoor is just a crtl-c ctrl-v from being destroyed pretty much. and usually billionaires and presidents have much more to hide than your low life hacker cheking and maintaining opensource projects...
with closed source, you could maybe get away with just corrupting the guy at the head, that has likely a lot to hide, the thing with opensource is that you would need to corrupt everyone has everyone has access to what you've done and how to revert it, and quite a few opensource devs will be tough nuts to crack, take Linus Torvalds or Richard Stallman, both bdfl of huge opensource projects, neither hide anything (Linus famously said he used Linux mirrors to backup his important personal data) and both are extremely vocal against tempering and will check every commit to their projects to make sure there is nothing malicious, although they may be representative of last generation of coders a lot of us still aspire to them, and hopefully would be as hard to crack. there have been a few documented attempts at doing exactly what you are saying, introducing vulnerabilities into opensource projects, and so far, it seems all failed. (oh and often telemetry will reduce performances, and especially on servers that is very closely monitored, so maybe the main 7Zip program could get away with being corrupted, but not the LZMA library that is actually doing all the compression and filesystem work)
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 April 2021, 00:37:47 by yui »
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Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 12:47:07 »
WinRar for anything other than Zip files, w10 file explorer has an extraction agent built in for zip.

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 18:27:53 »
Trying to get even a small group of open source coders to agree would be EXTREMELY difficult and worse, one wrong move and they will leak what you're trying to do to the rest of the group.
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Offline Error213

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Re: What Zip?
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 05 May 2021, 22:45:00 »
i prefer 7z for its more ease of use