Is really Topre switches better than Cherry MXs?

[jspark]

In terms of price, yes Topre must be much better than Cherry MXs.
I have read that Topre switches last longer than Cherry MXs from some web sites while I have read that Cherry MXs last longer from other web pages.
Like this, I cannot figure out which one is better and why. It feels like everyone says differently.
Can anyone tell about these switches objectively?

[jwaz]

it's definitely up to your preference, people will argue both sides endlessly...

In terms of price, yes Topre must be much better than Cherry MXs.

this is part of the marketing of luxury products...

[longweight]

They most certainly are in my opinion.

[Daniel Beaver]

Yes, absolutely.

[longweight]

It depends on what you are looking for in a switch.

I'd only compare Topre to PCB mounted cherries because they are both easier on your hands.

Why wouldn't you include plate mounted Cherry boards in that comparison?

[wetto]

And can someone tell me the reason for them costing 3-4 times the price of a Cherry keyboard?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I think the more important question is why are Topres so much more expensive than Cherrys?  I mean, if there is a legitimate reason as to why Topres cost 2x-3x as much as an equivilent Cherry board, then I could understand paying such a high price.  But from my perspective, Topres are just glorified rubber domes and shouldn't even be considered "mechanical".

Then again, I have never typed on a Topre before, so feel free to ignore my obviously-biased opinion...

EDIT: Of course, as soon as I post this I realize someone asked the same question in the previous post lol...

[metalliqaz]

When it comes to providing tactility, the breakdown of the rubber dome that Topre uses is superior to pushing the contact over the plastic bump on Cherry.  I think that Cherry has better springiness.

[longweight]

Topre costs more for a few reasons in my opinion:


1. Smaller production numbers
2. A more complex PCB from what I have seen
3. Premium pricing
4. Higher quality than most Cherry boards


I love topre, they feel like a switch that has been designed properly and I wouldn't go back to Cherry boards.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I'm still not convinced... perhaps I'll just have to try out someones HHKB or Realforce before I bash Topre's high prices any more than I already have...

[longweight]

I'm still not convinced... perhaps I'll just have to try out someones HHKB or Realforce before I bash Topre's high prices any more than I already have...

The price is totally worth it in my opinion, no one can describe it to you so you will have to try them! The other advantage is that the HHKB is Topre, best layout ever.

[lazerpointer]

I would say they are priced so steeply because of their unique design and exclusive production.. They could probably be much cheaper were they more closely based on the bomb cost of the board.

About the actual reason why I believe people tend to like them is that they are the closest to buckling spring technology without actually being simple buckling springs. You push down, halfway through something makes contact, actuating the keystroke and you feel a change in resistance. This gives a tactile feel and is quieter than a spring clanging against more metal. The major exception to this being that with buckling spring you may feel a "give" feel after the spring buckles, and with the Topre it would feel like a stronger resistance after actuation (correct me if I'm wrong). I haven't owned one yet but it will be my next step in the whole keyboard efficiency quest I embarked upon a few years ago... Can't stomach that 270 dollar price point just yet

[wetto]

It's a bit hard, but I can somehow convince people about buying a US$ 60~120 keyboard after showing their internal construction pics and how good they are to type (and hell, you can only convince them to pay US$ 120 if it's a gaming keyboard with backlight, macro keys and includes an wrist rest), but I honestly cannot convince anyone (including myself) about paying US$ 270~400 on a keyboard... Especially if I don't know if they're any better than Cherry MX at all.

[AKIMbO]

I would say they are priced so steeply because of their unique design and exclusive production.. They could probably be much cheaper were they more closely based on the bomb cost of the board.

About the actual reason why I believe people tend to like them is that they are the closest to buckling spring technology without actually being simple buckling springs. You push down, halfway through something makes contact, actuating the keystroke and you feel a change in resistance. This gives a tactile feel and is quieter than a spring clanging against more metal. The major exception to this being that with buckling spring you may feel a "give" feel after the spring buckles, and with the Topre it would feel like a stronger resistance after actuation (correct me if I'm wrong). I haven't owned one yet but it will be my next step in the whole keyboard efficiency quest I embarked upon a few years ago... Can't stomach that 270 dollar price point just yet

You are wrong

With topre...once the dome buckles it gets lighter, not heavier until you bottom out.  But the bottoming out on a topre switch...my god...it's so nice.

[ChaoticKinesis]

I think the more important question is why are Topres so much more expensive than Cherrys?  I mean, if there is a legitimate reason as to why Topres cost 2x-3x as much as an equivilent Cherry board, then I could understand paying such a high price.  But from my perspective, Topres are just glorified rubber domes and shouldn't even be considered "mechanical".

Then again, I have never typed on a Topre before, so feel free to ignore my obviously-biased opinion...

EDIT: Of course, as soon as I post this I realize someone asked the same question in the previous post lol...

This is how I feel after having owned a RealForce 55G for a bit. I've also tried an HHKB and RF variable. I don't see anything special about them and I also didn't find the RF's build quality to be any better than that of a Costar-built Cherry MX board.

[Binge]

Cost effectiveness is not usually a concern for me, but when it comes to topre switches I just wish they had some competition.  The keyboards would definitely fall in price if they were to have some sort of product competition.

[thegunner100]

Topres might not impress on first sight, but they will grow on you if you give them a chance. That being said, the bottoming out of topres is an amazing feeling.

[lazerpointer]

I would say they are priced so steeply because of their unique design and exclusive production.. They could probably be much cheaper were they more closely based on the bomb cost of the board.

About the actual reason why I believe people tend to like them is that they are the closest to buckling spring technology without actually being simple buckling springs. You push down, halfway through something makes contact, actuating the keystroke and you feel a change in resistance. This gives a tactile feel and is quieter than a spring clanging against more metal. The major exception to this being that with buckling spring you may feel a "give" feel after the spring buckles, and with the Topre it would feel like a stronger resistance after actuation (correct me if I'm wrong). I haven't owned one yet but it will be my next step in the whole keyboard efficiency quest I embarked upon a few years ago... Can't stomach that 270 dollar price point just yet

You are wrong

With topre...once the dome buckles it gets lighter, not heavier until you bottom out.  But the bottoming out on a topre switch...my god...it's so nice.

Hmmm. Then this makes them even more similar to buckling springs than I had previously imagined. Thanks for the prompt correction.


Edit;
AHHHh! If I find out these are actually better than Cherry Reds that will automatically mean that I am obligated to buy two of these boards, one for work and one for home. Don't do this to me!!! Someone please tell me they've gone from Topre back to Reds or even Cherry MX for that matter...

[metalliqaz]

My silenced Topre impressed me right off the bat.  Mmmmm,  butter.

[sth]

I'm still not convinced... perhaps I'll just have to try out someones HHKB or Realforce before I bash Topre's high prices any more than I already have...

to be fair most topre boards cost a paltry sum compared to building a korean custom or buying one pre-assembled.

thegunner100 - funny you say that. the first time i depressed a key on hashbaz' 45g uniform i knew i had to have a realforce

[thegunner100]

to be fair most topre boards cost a paltry sum compared to building a korean custom or buying one pre-assembled.

thegunner100 - funny you say that. the first time i depressed a key on hashbaz' 45g uniform i knew i had to have a realforce

Editted for clarity

I didn't realize how much i loved topres until I had to switch back to using MX.

55g is a different story though, it was love at first sight(or touch)

[ekw808]

Topre keyboards are not that much more expensive than cherry MX keyboards, topre sells their dye sub PBT keycaps at around 110 per set, and most topre TKL keyboards are around 280, 280-110 is 170 for their basic keyboard without keycaps, which is not all that higher than some ducky, and filco keyboards. The topre dye sub keycaps are some of the best keycaps on the market which is one of the reasons they can use to justify their cost.

Topre switches use a rubber dome which has a shorter life than Cherry MX switches which does not use a rubber dome at all. Not all topre keyboards are more expensive than cherry keyboards either, alot of the Korean custom keyboards have a much higher build quality than topre by using aluminum to build a case, the group buy cost for these said korean keyboards can range from 250-1000+.

Personally I've tried 55g uniform, and variable weighted silent and while they are definitely nice to type on, I don't think their price tag justifies the purchase. I think they are like buying Beats headphones; their marketing strategy is to add a premium on a product which makes you feel more entitled for owning something that is claiming to be of higher quality which justifies their pricing point.

Another point to consider is the customization that the cherry MX offers, there are tons of groupbuys with various types of keycaps you can purchase. Whereas the only groupbuy for topre keycaps is the Red Alert set which has been there for ages, and has not progressed a day since it was created. 

I think the HHKB-S is the most ridiculous keyboard on the market, charging 500 for a SILENT feature which is complete BS. The 10th AE topres came in 55g, variable, and variable silent, maybe 45g uniform (not sure). There was no price difference between all three, they were the same price. I have no problems with topres, just HHKBs and their ridiculous price tiers.

[AKIMbO]

To truly appreciate topre, one must spend a week solely with topre.  Only then will they gain "oneness with cupped rubber."

[longweight]

It's a bit hard, but I can somehow convince people about buying a US$ 60~120 keyboard after showing their internal construction pics and how good they are to type (and hell, you can only convince them to pay US$ 120 if it's a gaming keyboard with backlight, macro keys and includes an wrist rest), but I honestly cannot convince anyone (including myself) about paying US$ 270~400 on a keyboard... Especially if I don't know if they're any better than Cherry MX at all.

Then you haven't tried one!


Totally worth the price.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

To truly appreciate topre, one must spend a week solely with topre.  Only then will they gain "oneness with cupped rubber."

Up until the day I try a Topre, said "cupped rubber" means nothing more to me than "****ty rubber dome"...

[ChaoticKinesis]

Editted for clarity

I didn't realize how much i loved topres until I had to switch back to using MX.

55g is a different story though, it was love at first sight(or touch)

I actually thought I loved the 55g when I first tried it so I brought it to work, where I type more than I do at home. The more I used it, the more I felt unsure about it. After a few days, I again put it side by side with a Cherry MX and realized it has to go.

[longweight]

To truly appreciate topre, one must spend a week solely with topre.  Only then will they gain "oneness with cupped rubber."

Up until the day I try a Topre, said "cupped rubber" means nothing more to me than "****ty rubber dome"...

It's cute that your lack-of-Topre rage is manifesting itself in troll posts

[thegunner100]

Topre's marketing strategy is nowhere near Beats'. Yes, Topre markets their keyboards as a premium product, and so does Beats. But Beats claims that their headphones are the best, that there's nothing compared to them, that they're supposed to let you hear what the producers hear in the studio(LOL), and the list goes on.

Topre doesn't claim to be the best, and the differences in feeling between topre and MX isn't the same as sound quality. Topre is a different feeling, but not necessarily better. Beats on the other hand, charge you a ridiculous price for a product with sub-par build and sound quality.There are so many headphones that sound better than beats at a much lower cost.

I do agree that MX boards have a lot more potential for customization, and that the price on the HHKB-S is simply ridiculous.

[longweight]

Topre keyboards are not that much more expensive than cherry MX keyboards, topre sells their dye sub PBT keycaps at around 110 per set, and most topre TKL keyboards are around 280, 280-110 is 170 for their basic keyboard without keycaps, which is not all that higher than some ducky, and filco keyboards. The topre dye sub keycaps are some of the best keycaps on the market which is one of the reasons they can use to justify their cost.

Topre switches use a rubber dome which has a shorter life than Cherry MX switches which does not use a rubber dome at all. Not all topre keyboards are more expensive than cherry keyboards either, alot of the Korean custom keyboards have a much higher build quality than topre by using aluminum to build a case, the group buy cost for these said korean keyboards can range from 250-1000+.

Personally I've tried 55g uniform, and variable weighted silent and while they are definitely nice to type on, I don't think their price tag justifies the purchase. I think they are like buying Beats headphones; their marketing strategy is to add a premium on a product which makes you feel more entitled for owning something that is claiming to be of higher quality which justifies their pricing point.

Another point to consider is the customization that the cherry MX offers, there are tons of groupbuys with various types of keycaps you can purchase. Whereas the only groupbuy for topre keycaps is the Red Alert set which has been there for ages, and has not progressed a day since it was created. 

I think the HHKB-S is the most ridiculous keyboard on the market, charging 500 for a SILENT feature which is complete BS. The 10th AE topres came in 55g, variable, and variable silent, maybe 45g uniform (not sure). There was no price difference between all three, they were the same price. I have no problems with topres, just HHKBs and their ridiculous price tiers.

It's a premium price point, everyone knows that it doesn't cost them 200 dollars to silence the keys but the board is priced like that to make it a premium product.

[AKIMbO]

To truly appreciate topre, one must spend a week solely with topre.  Only then will they gain "oneness with cupped rubber."

Up until the day I try a Topre, said "cupped rubber" means nothing more to me than "****ty rubber dome"...

It amuses me how heated these topics can get.  Honestly, topre switches feel way better than rubber domes.  Topre switches are more analogous with dampened alps then rubber domes in terms of feel.   You shouldn't bash topre just cause it uses dome technology,  you need to try it...there's a reason many OG members love topre.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

To truly appreciate topre, one must spend a week solely with topre.  Only then will they gain "oneness with cupped rubber."

Up until the day I try a Topre, said "cupped rubber" means nothing more to me than "****ty rubber dome"...

It's cute that your lack-of-Topre rage is manifesting itself in troll posts

To truly appreciate topre, one must spend a week solely with topre.  Only then will they gain "oneness with cupped rubber."

Up until the day I try a Topre, said "cupped rubber" means nothing more to me than "****ty rubber dome"...

It amuses me how heated these topics can get.  Honestly, topre switches feel way better than rubber domes.  Topre switches are more analogous with dampened alps then rubber domes in terms of feel.   You shouldn't bash topre just cause it uses dome technology,  you need to try it...there's a reason many OG members love topre.

I'm not saying Topres are bad at all... I'm just saying that until I try a Topre the only association I have with "cupped rubber" is a rubber dome keyboard.

Believe me, I'm sure I'll end up owning a Topre someday in the near future...

[ekw808]

Topre keyboards are not that much more expensive than cherry MX keyboards, topre sells their dye sub PBT keycaps at around 110 per set, and most topre TKL keyboards are around 280, 280-110 is 170 for their basic keyboard without keycaps, which is not all that higher than some ducky, and filco keyboards. The topre dye sub keycaps are some of the best keycaps on the market which is one of the reasons they can use to justify their cost.

Topre switches use a rubber dome which has a shorter life than Cherry MX switches which does not use a rubber dome at all. Not all topre keyboards are more expensive than cherry keyboards either, alot of the Korean custom keyboards have a much higher build quality than topre by using aluminum to build a case, the group buy cost for these said korean keyboards can range from 250-1000+.

Personally I've tried 55g uniform, and variable weighted silent and while they are definitely nice to type on, I don't think their price tag justifies the purchase. I think they are like buying Beats headphones; their marketing strategy is to add a premium on a product which makes you feel more entitled for owning something that is claiming to be of higher quality which justifies their pricing point.

Another point to consider is the customization that the cherry MX offers, there are tons of groupbuys with various types of keycaps you can purchase. Whereas the only groupbuy for topre keycaps is the Red Alert set which has been there for ages, and has not progressed a day since it was created. 

I think the HHKB-S is the most ridiculous keyboard on the market, charging 500 for a SILENT feature which is complete BS. The 10th AE topres came in 55g, variable, and variable silent, maybe 45g uniform (not sure). There was no price difference between all three, they were the same price. I have no problems with topres, just HHKBs and their ridiculous price tiers.

It's a premium price point, everyone knows that it doesn't cost them 200 dollars to silence the keys but the board is priced like that to make it a premium product.

Topre tries to be a premium product which is fine, HHKB tries to be a ultra premium product, but it's stupid to charge the ultra price when the premium undercuts it by showing that silencing a keyboard can be sold at the same price.

[metalliqaz]

Rubber domes are not what make membrane keyboards bad.  It's that you have to smoosh the key into the PCB to get the key to activate.  Topre uses the dome only for tactility, but you push into a spring.

[longweight]

Topre keyboards are not that much more expensive than cherry MX keyboards, topre sells their dye sub PBT keycaps at around 110 per set, and most topre TKL keyboards are around 280, 280-110 is 170 for their basic keyboard without keycaps, which is not all that higher than some ducky, and filco keyboards. The topre dye sub keycaps are some of the best keycaps on the market which is one of the reasons they can use to justify their cost.

Topre switches use a rubber dome which has a shorter life than Cherry MX switches which does not use a rubber dome at all. Not all topre keyboards are more expensive than cherry keyboards either, alot of the Korean custom keyboards have a much higher build quality than topre by using aluminum to build a case, the group buy cost for these said korean keyboards can range from 250-1000+.

Personally I've tried 55g uniform, and variable weighted silent and while they are definitely nice to type on, I don't think their price tag justifies the purchase. I think they are like buying Beats headphones; their marketing strategy is to add a premium on a product which makes you feel more entitled for owning something that is claiming to be of higher quality which justifies their pricing point.

Another point to consider is the customization that the cherry MX offers, there are tons of groupbuys with various types of keycaps you can purchase. Whereas the only groupbuy for topre keycaps is the Red Alert set which has been there for ages, and has not progressed a day since it was created. 

I think the HHKB-S is the most ridiculous keyboard on the market, charging 500 for a SILENT feature which is complete BS. The 10th AE topres came in 55g, variable, and variable silent, maybe 45g uniform (not sure). There was no price difference between all three, they were the same price. I have no problems with topres, just HHKBs and their ridiculous price tiers.

It's a premium price point, everyone knows that it doesn't cost them 200 dollars to silence the keys but the board is priced like that to make it a premium product.

Topre tries to be a premium product which is fine, HHKB tries to be a ultra premium product, but it's stupid to charge the ultra price when the premium undercuts it by showing that silencing a keyboard can be sold at the same price.

But it works, otherwise they would lower the price.

[bounce]

well i dont know why but topre to me sounds like a highend GPU in comparision with cherry being a mid range to advanced tier gpu,
nice to have but you will do absolutely fine with the mid range.

[thegunner100]

well i dont know why but topre to me sounds like a highend GPU in comparision with cherry being a mid range to advanced tier gpu,
nice to have but you will do absolutely fine with the mid range.

Except graphics card get "weaker" as graphics in games improve.

[Binge]

well i dont know why but topre to me sounds like a highend GPU in comparision with cherry being a mid range to advanced tier gpu,
nice to have but you will do absolutely fine with the mid range.

Please do not compare keyboards to devices which drive/process graphics, processes, or sound.  There is ALWAYS a reason the super top of the line silicon exists, and most people don't have access to utilize those features.  The ultra-high end GPU, for example, will allow you to play on a larger format of screen.  Those elite enough to get a 4kmonitor will be scrambling for the latest and greatest because the mid-ranged cards really only handle 1080p.  When it comes to topre there is not a question of definition as much as there is a question of feel and comfort.  The same thing can be produced by another company but is not and thus they charge whatever they want regardless of the cost to make. 

Its not like people here want to argue, but after you own one... you've spent the money.  You can afford the premium and if you like it then you keep it.  It's more like a pair of $50 jeans compared to custom made $300 jeans.  In this case the extra premium does not = functionality of the pants, but it probably fits like a glove.

[ChaoticKinesis]

well i dont know why but topre to me sounds like a highend GPU in comparision with cherry being a mid range to advanced tier gpu,
nice to have but you will do absolutely fine with the mid range.

Except graphics card get "weaker" as graphics in games improve.

On the other hand, a more powerful graphics card is going to be superior by very objective measures. Switch quality is absolutely subjective and overall build quality is also hardly something that can be quantified.

I think the headphone example works. Which is better: Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, or AKG? While I regard Topre as a high-end rubberdome, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It is certainly in a different league from other rubberdomes on the market. Beats are more comparable to a rubberdome gaming keyboard from Logitech or Razer costing >$100.

[anomaly]

I own a Cherry Brown, Cherry Blue, a buckling spring, and a Realforce keyboard. The Realforce has this nice, "pressing a knife through butter" kind of feel. It's not mushy or anything. That said, my favorites are the Browns, followed by the Blues. I guess I like the clicky, thacky sounds the cherry's make.

[daerid]

Going back to a Cherry board now makes my fingertips actually hurt. The feeling of typing on a Topre might be an acquired taste, true, and it might not be for everyone, but it at least for this guy, it's the absolute best typing experience I've ever had.

[HolidaySHRIMP]

After I bought my HHKB I sold my MX blue and MX brown boards.  Never to return.  I'd only rock MX if it was a KMAC titanium, MX Blue, WITH winkey.

[wetto]

And why do I feel like this thread just went on a downhill...

[laffindude]

Topre costs more for a few reasons in my opinion:


1. Smaller production numbers
2. A more complex PCB from what I have seen
3. Premium pricing
4. Higher quality than most Cherry boards


I love topre, they feel like a switch that has been designed properly and I wouldn't go back to Cherry boards.

You forgot "Made In Japan."

[wetto]

But hell, if they wanted to lower the price, they could and by a lot, right?

Most people already get "offended" when I tell them I paid US$ 120 on my keyboard, then I just find arguments such as build quality, Cherry switches, tactility and productiveness, but I can't really defend the idea of paying US$ 280 or more on a keyboard, especially since I don't think the difference between Cherry vs Topre isn't as ridiculous as the difference between Membrane vs Cherry.

[sth]

But hell, if they wanted to lower the price, they could and by a lot, right?

Most people already get "offended" when I tell them I paid US$ 120 on my keyboard, then I just find arguments such as build quality, Cherry switches, tactility and productiveness, but I can't really defend the idea of paying US$ 280 or more on a keyboard, especially since I don't think the difference between Cherry vs Topre isn't as ridiculous as the difference between Membrane vs Cherry.

but you would have no idea whatsoever based on your statements elsewhere in this thread. you are saying exactly the same thing that your coworkers are saying; the value is arbitrary when you factor in the cost of adding PBT keycaps to a das.

dont knock it til you've tried it.

[lazerpointer]

Somebody (one of you pros with like 50 keyboards!) should do an in-depth comparison between Cherry MX Browns, Buckling Springs and Topre typing experiences. All three are "tactile" and aim for the same "tactility" selling points, and most people have either Cherry MX Browns or buckling springs.

My understanding from what I've read so far is that the Topre will feel like buckling springs, only muffled / softer due to the "rubber percussion" as opposed to "metal clang" contact, and obviously much quieter. Thoughts??

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm not saying Topres are bad at all... I'm just saying that until I try a Topre the only association I have with "cupped rubber" is a rubber dome keyboard.

Believe me, I'm sure I'll end up owning a Topre someday in the near future...

What is your experience with rubber domes? Even cheap ones vary hugely from model to model, brand to brand.

A lot of them are very spongy – Topre domes have very clear, pronounced tactility with no sponginess. Old "midnight grey" Dell keyboards for example are highly tactile but the tactile point is very sharp like ALPS, and they're very stiff and balky – normal Topre keyboards are variable weight at only 45 cN for the centre keys, vs anything up to 60–65 cN for a normal board, so they're easy to press and soft and smooth.

And I mean smooth. Much smoother than buckling spring. There's no scraping, and no flex, creak, or rattle. The switches have sliders, where cheap rubber dome boards just have a shaft for the keycap, which can lead to binding (the key jams part-way down because it's not sliding vertically). The keyboard itself is suitably heavy, so it doesn't slide around the desk.

The capacitive switching means that it's truly NKRO (USB limitations notwithstanding) as it's completely immune to ghosting. Don't know if it does PS/2, never cared.

Plus it's really quiet – quiet even by full travel dome standards because you don't get all the horrid rattling and shaking that you get from, say, a cheap Dell.

Topre is a formulated approach to rubber dome that guarantees quality year after year. I didn't believe it until I bought one either – I didn't realise that you could get rubber domes so right. There are nice domes, such as the Dell KB-1421: it feels almost as good as Topre, but it's still undeniably cheap, and the KB-1421 is the only dome keyboard I've used that comes anywhere close in my experience. Most of them are just awful.

Is Topre better than Cherry MX? Depends. Topre doesn't click. Topre doesn't do linear. You have fewer options for available force curves. The problem with Cherry for many is that they can't get the balance right on force curves: red, brown and blue are too light, clear is kinda weird (but IMO so much better than brown), and black is too stiff. Topre is the perfect weight that Cherry just can't pull off, not unless/until they formally introduce ergo clears anyway :-)

It's all personal preference, but I cannot deny that Topre do rubber dome right, and it's probably the best tactile switch on the market.

[ValerieV]

The problem is that Realforce has different gram keyboards...55g keyboard, 45g keyboard, and a 55, 45, and 30g all in one keyboard. When you guys talk about liking the Realforce please say which one you use. I am contemplating getting the EK edition that is entirely 45g because i think that gives me the best tactile feedback. Thanks.

[Capitalistix]

Topre costs more for a few reasons in my opinion:


1. Smaller production numbers
2. A more complex PCB from what I have seen
3. Premium pricing
4. Higher quality than most Cherry boards



I love topre, they feel like a switch that has been designed properly and I wouldn't go back to Cherry boards.

You forgot "Made In Japan."

True that, the Japs have on average, today, an attention to detail in electronics quality control which rivals that of the US' auto indudustry, or big name US electronics firms back in the "six sigma" days of quality control during thr late 80's to early 90's. IMHO almost everything I've ever bought made in mainland China, other than Apple quality controlled products, has honestly been ***t

[sth]

whoa buddy watch it with the j-word.

flip -- there is really nothing that isn't already out there on the internet about the differences that could be conveyed without just trying each of the switch types and forming your own opinion. lurk moar

[rowdy]

I haven't tried a Topre keyboard (yet), but from lurking around here I haven't read of anyone who has used one and did not like it.

I would be curious to try one eventually.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Some people don't like them, and it took me a while to break mine in/have it break me in. However, they are definitely well-liked!

[karljs]

From someone who has actually shelled out for several of each type, my two Topre boards are my home and work daily drivers. That said, if you think that there is a linear relationship between price and quality, prepare to be disappointed. There is no question that Topre is overpriced, but that doesn't mean they aren't wonderful to type on.

And let me just get this off my chest. Please stop dismissing Topre just because the tactility is provided by rubber. This is a logically fallacious argument. If you don't like them, that's fine, but keep it to yourself until you've tried one. It's analogous to arguing that a Lamborghini (or insert your favorite car brand here) isn't a desirable car because it's not made entirely out of steel. In the end what matters is the feel and quality, and I'm extraordinarily satisfied with both on my Topres. They feel nothing like a typical rubber dome.

[vbrenny]

The following question is from a total noob, that has never experienced a Topre and/or profoundly known one.
Don't they wear out with time and change their feeling?
If they do, for how long they keep their factory-like weight and responsiveness?

[lazerpointer]

whoa buddy watch it with the j-word.

flip -- there is really nothing that isn't already out there on the internet about the differences that could be conveyed without just trying each of the switch types and forming your own opinion. lurk moar

This thread is intended for those who have Topre to share their experience. Unless I'm mistaken? We should encourage information sharing, even if that info is opinions.

[sth]

lurk moar, nothing new has been said in this thread that hasn't been covered countless times

every time these threads come up, people who have never tried topre ***** about the price, people who actually use topre reiterate that YES, they are worth the premium, and people with little experience ask others to compare them in words even though they're not effectively comparable to anything else in an objective light.

[rowdy]

I accept the price, I just can't afford it at the moment.

The white/gray Topre Realforce is one of the nicest keyboard I have seen (but never used).

[lazerpointer]

While I understand the redundancy you are trying to prevent, I fail to see why you are discouraging other people from sharing. Why not let there be one thread where people can dump their Topre stories? I'll continuously check back here but won't engage in any further argument. Hopefully people can be constructive

[sth]

i am not discouraging people from anything. what stories are you expecting to hear that have not been told time and again?

please don't get sanctimonious with me because you're not willing to read old threads. geekhack is not a silver platter upon which information is served to you directly, it's a community with rich and vast resources tucked away in the corners of old threads all over the forum.

[thegunner100]

i am not discouraging people from anything. what stories are you expecting to hear that have not been told time and again?

please don't get sanctimonious with me because you're not willing to read old threads. geekhack is not a silver platter upon which information is served to you directly, it's a community with rich and vast resources tucked away in the corners of old threads all over the forum.

And the search function actually works now!

 

While I understand the redundancy you are trying to prevent, I fail to see why you are discouraging other people from sharing. Why not let there be one thread where people can dump their Topre stories? I'll continuously check back here but won't engage in any further argument. Hopefully people can be constructive

There really isnt much constructive info that hasnt been mentioned before in the past.

[Capitalistix]

whoa buddy watch it with the j-word.

flip -- there is really nothing that isn't already out there on the internet about the differences that could be conveyed without just trying each of the switch types and forming your own opinion. lurk moar

I mean no disrespect, I'm a studunt of Japanese myself. My last girlfirend was Japanese herself, I just type as I talk, I dont consider it like the n-word or anything, sorry if I offended ya. すみません。

[dorkvader]

Topre costs more for a few reasons in my opinion:


1. Smaller production numbers
2. A more complex PCB from what I have seen
3. Premium pricing
4. Higher quality than most Cherry boards



I love topre, they feel like a switch that has been designed properly and I wouldn't go back to Cherry boards.

You forgot "Made In Japan."

True that, the Japanese have on average, today, an attention to detail in electronics quality control which rivals that of the US' auto indudustry, or big name US electronics firms back in the "six sigma" days of quality control during the late 80's to early 90's. IMHO almost everything I've ever bought made in mainland China, other than Apple quality controlled products, has honestly been ***t

I would say that it started with the taguchi method, and going against the American Manufacturers' goalpost mentality. We went over this in some detail (but not as in depth as Id' like) in my Design of experiments class: Probably the most useful class I've had to date.

Still, Even with exacting standards, low deviation, and good Quality Control, I still think Topre is fleecing everyone with their prices. I can hardly bear to pay more than $100 for a keyboard.

I will say, though, that if I could try one, maybe it'd change my mind. As it is, I'll stick with BS and cherry. You can get Dvorak legends in both.

[phetto]

had a topre, didnt like it, sold it.

[Magna224]

Most of my friends are afraid of topres. They say that topres are too soft and smooth. Believe it or not tactile/clicky ALPS have been the favorite of anyone who has tried all of my keyboards.

[TacticalCoder]

I haven't tried a Topre keyboard (yet), but from lurking around here I haven't read of anyone who has used one and did not like it.

That's why I wasn't scared of buying a HHKB Pro 2: this forum is one of the place where people are the pickiest about keyboards and yet it's very uncommon to read about people not liking Topre.  There may be some, but you much more often hear about people loving their Topre.

I was a very long time buckling springs user and tried several other switches: white ALPS, Cherry MXs. Didn't really like them that much compared to my good old buckling springs. Then I bought an HHKB and now I'm using it nearly all the time (I still give some love to my Ms).

I did also figure out that in case I wouldn't like it I'd be able to resell it without losing too much money.

Now if only a split Trope using a (mostly) conventional layout existed (no, I don't like that really weird split Topre out there with a lot of weirdly located keys)...  Basically I'd love to have a "split HHKB" and I'd be willing to fork $$$$ to buy one

[tadbitnerdy]

If there were a 'KMAC' of Topre variety, or an aluminum case made for a Topre (idea for HHKB anyone)... then I will buy and try a topre.  Until then, I only have one keyboard with an acrylic case:  the ErgoDox.  Unless it is an MX-Mini or a GOM case, I just won't aluminum.  Yes, I'm a case snob now

-Tad

[Moosecraft]

If there were a 'KMAC' of Topre variety, or an aluminum case made for a Topre (idea for HHKB anyone)... then I will buy and try a topre.  Until then, I only have one keyboard with an acrylic case:  the ErgoDox.  Unless it is an MX-Mini or a GOM case, I just won't aluminum.  Yes, I'm a case snob now

-Tad

There is an aluminium case for realforce tkl, but it's like 450 dollars.

[tadbitnerdy]

Who makes it?

[Moosecraft]

Who makes it?

Koreans, I think they are available on ebay.

[AKIMbO]

Who makes it?

Digilog....only available on ebay.

[dante]

As someone who enjoys a few of HP's $5 [ebay] membrane specials - which have NOTHING in common with Dell - I have a preference towards 55g Topre over anything Cherry.

That said, for a fullsize board I would not buy a Realforce - I'd stick with domes.  So the pain in the pocket comes mostly from the availability of an ANSI Tenkeyless format - which there are are hardly any options for standard membrane.

If HP made a 80% SK2880 membrane, Realforce wouldn't even be on my radar.

[fateswarm]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

[SpAmRaY]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

So your saying if walmart sold topre keyboards they would be cheaper?


As for using a proxy service after fees it's not really cheaper than buying from www.elitekeyboards.com.

[fateswarm]

not really cheaper than buying from www.elitekeyboards.com.

Read what those people found out: http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/topre-introduces-new-type-heaven-keyboard-at-computex-t5903-30.html

[tp4tissue]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

when did koreans switch to euros?

[fateswarm]

when did koreans switch to euros?

http://www.xe.com

[tp4tissue]

when did koreans switch to euros?

http://www.xe.com

sigh... wooooooooooosh....

[morpheus]

I really love Topre, it's like nothing else...for me the dream switch.

But like everybody else says, it's a personal preference.

[fateswarm]

Pricing of topre keyboards is in part an artificial result of the lack of rich distribution in the west.

I heard of using http://www.tenso.com/en , a website that for a small fee sends from amazon.co.jp or elsewhere by entering the forwarding address they give you. In some cases the drop in price is impressive.

For example Leopold's topre is around 130 euros in Korea, that's quite on par with most high end MXes.

So your saying if walmart sold topre keyboards they would be cheaper?


As for using a proxy service after fees it's not really cheaper than buying from www.elitekeyboards.com.

An example: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%9D%B1%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC-NG01B0-REALFORCE91UBK/dp/B000EQHU6M/

A new Realforce on offer for around $140. The forwarding address would get it for around that price plus the fee of the forwarder. As far as I know it's low.

[typo]

why a comparison thread every day? the op's question was really what lasts longer. I recently got a $200 cherry switch board. I think I can reasonably guess it will outlast 5 topre boards. I have worn out topre boards. the topre switch does feel nicer. comes with the territory. a Ferrari does not last as long as a Toyota.

[Polymer]

why a comparison thread every day? the op's question was really what lasts longer. I recently got a $200 cherry switch board. I think I can reasonably guess it will outlast 5 topre boards. I have worn out topre boards. the topre switch does feel nicer. comes with the territory. a Ferrari does not last as long as a Toyota.

If you go by the switch rating, I think Topre recently upped theirs to 50million....but even if it was half that, that is only twice as long.

The advantage with Cherry though, is you can (somewhat) easily fix your board or replace the switch..whereas with Topre they don't sell individual switches....

[sameer.wahid]

I had a Topre. The switches were nice, but it was a variable weight keyboard and I found the "a" key was weighted so lightly that I would accidentally press it regularly.  I have an AEB and a Leopold with Cherry Browns and now I don't have that problem.

I do recall the Topre was quieter than the Leopold/Cherry Browns when I bottom out.

[tadbitnerdy]

Oh crap, I finally found the digilog aluminum case for the realforce.  My wallet hates me, as i'm seriously considering this buy... DAMN YOU GEEKHACK!  (shakes fist)

[Sniping]

Oh crap, I finally found the digilog aluminum case for the realforce.  My wallet hates me, as i'm seriously considering this buy... DAMN YOU GEEKHACK!  (shakes fist)

I'm just sitting here waiting for WFD to announce that aluminum case he was going to make for the FC660C.

[skwan]

Not sure whether this have been hammered in enough, but ultimately the issue of topre vs cherry, is more of an issue of personal preference more than anything else.

That being said, objective factors that sets them apart that I can identify are:-
1. Topre doesn't have option for clicky (ie. sound at trigger, as opposed to bottom)
2. Topre is not as loud (in fact it sounds different, and some people live and die by the topre "thock")
3. Topre is smoother, and strokes where the force is applied at an angle is directed downwards better.
4. You will bottom out with Topre, most people who use topre bottoms out, you just do (I have yet to seen anyone type at 100+wpm on topre without bottoming out)
5. I havn't have my topre wear down on me yet, (3 years and counting, heavy usage daily), but i wouldn't be surprised if topre last less than cherry considering the mechanism involved, and i think their spec is also stated to be less
6. From my experience, topre keys weights are much less uniform than cherry, even if its stated to be all 45g (eg hhkb), they can vary significantly, at least much more than cherries, likely due to it being a rubber cup and not a spring (the spring is mostly for activating the switch, and only offer 5g of force).
7. Topre is a pain if you are looking for key caps to replace

If you are looking to justify the price of topre, don't bother.  I think a lot of people come here and think wow cherry is superior to rubber dome, i wonder would topre be the same leap above cherry (it certain costs that much more), and I think the answer is simply no.  Despite all the above factors listed, I think preferences for topre and cherry for most people just boils down to feel (do you prefer a linear spring (possibly with a bump), or a super smooth bell shaped bump).

Take my case for example, I type on topre exclusively for 3 years, and I STILL type faster on a cherry brown whenever i go on my brother's keyboard, but I just can't give up the smoothness.  The speed difference i attribute mostly to bottoming out (just FYI, i type about 110-120 wpm, and can peak at 130+)

[Danule]

Lots of people on here talking bad about a keyboard switch they have never tried...  Realforce is the best keyboard I have typed on (45g).  Some people don't like it, some do.  You have to try it first before you put it down.

Topre VS Cherry I would say topre feels better "smoother" more "refined"  Like a luxury car.

[SpAmRaY]

So I've been using an FC660C for about 3 hours and I would never say it is better than cherry mx just different. I do wish topre had more keycap options like MX and perhaps one day they will!!

[tp4tissue]

NONONONO... You guys are all making moot points

Ever since the release of the ergo dox.. The only relevant answer to Topre vs MX is... Do they make an ergodox with Topre switches.

Since the answer is NO..............   MX is the superior choice,  if simply because it dwells in the most compellingly ergonomic keyboard.


Don't bring up that crummy topre split option.. the staggered layout is RUIN...

[tns]

They most certainly are in my opinion.

Your profile picture says "no no no" 

[rowdy]

NONONONO... You guys are all making moot points

Ever since the release of the ergo dox.. The only relevant answer to Topre vs MX is... Do they make an ergodox with Topre switches.

Since the answer is NO..............   MX is the superior choice,  if simply because it dwells in the most compellingly ergonomic keyboard.


Don't bring up that crummy topre split option.. the staggered layout is RUIN...

So if there was an Ergo Dox with Topre, which would you prefer?