Author Topic: Thinkpads  (Read 25660 times)

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Offline intelli78

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Thinkpads
« on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 17:14:31 »
Are there any Thinkpad enthusiasts on GH?

I had a T21 in high school, and then got a brand new T43 when I went to college (almost ten years ago :eek:). When I needed a new computer a couple years ago, I looked at Thinkpads but didn't like the direction Lenovo was going, and got a MacBook. But I just upgraded again, and went to a T450s this time.

And the truth is, I mostly like it now that I've gotten over the new style keyboard. It's not as good as the old one, but it's still the best laptop keyboard out there. And it's great to have a TrackPoint again.

The most frustrating things are the 16:9 screen and the lack of dedicated buttons below the trackpad. These features have no place on a Thinkpad and it sure feels like Lenovo sold out in this regard.

Despite these flaws, it's still a very good machine.

But the retro Thinkpad... now that's something. I don't know if I have ever been so excited for a new product. I really hope they do it right.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 17:21:48 »
I still miss my T500.  I loved that thing.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 17:49:32 »
Still rocking my x220..  I think i'm going to stay with it for a LONG time...    It's just really heavy..  but I'm fat,  so I need whatever workout comes my way.


Offline intelli78

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 18:06:05 »
I still miss my T500.  I loved that thing.

Hell yeah. Old keyboard, real mouse buttons, and no stupid numpad throwing off the symmetry of the whole design.

Still rocking my x220..  I think i'm going to stay with it for a LONG time...    It's just really heavy..  but I'm fat,  so I need whatever workout comes my way.

Show Image


X220 was nearly a perfect device, except for the lousy trackpad. IIRC that was the beginning of the Lenovo clickpads. If only they had stuck to an X201 style design.

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Offline retrochick

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 18:14:35 »
I still rock my x200 at home. Put Antergos on it and never looked back.


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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 18:17:51 »
I still rock my x200 at home. Put Antergos on it and never looked back.

I have an x201,  but overall, i stopped using it because sandybridge cpu is just like 30-45% faster..

Offline Hak Foo

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 20:16:51 »
I had a 385XD in university, expanded to the full 96Mb of memory, even took it to work in 2006 when we had a desperate shortage of computers.

Now I'm on a T420.
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Offline intelli78

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 20:17:52 »
I want a W701ds....

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Offline njbair

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 20:27:03 »
Don't thinkpads have keyboard over-lighting?

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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 20:30:41 »
I enjoyed Thinkpads when I was a Windows man back in the day.

When I became a Mac OS man, I started drinking the Apple kool-aid. 

Now that I'm a Linux man, I'm not sure what type of laptop I should favor, but I like being able to still use Mac OS if I ever need it.  Windows, meh.
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Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 22:45:12 »
I'm forced to use Lenovo Thinkpads at work. They are an abomination compared to my old beloved T series.
I'm back.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 22:49:34 »
A X61t is still kicking here, it has been updated twice with Samsung SSDs the first was a commercial level one, the second a pro version, while it has only SATA-II interface runs faster than many modern machines:


Keyboard - check.
Display - decent.
Processor - decent.
GPU - sucks.
Build - check.


Overall a great machine.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 07:23:34 »
I'm forced to use Lenovo Thinkpads at work. They are an abomination compared to my old beloved T series.

Many people heart the old builds,    But honestly , the new ones are so much better..  there's really 0 reason you'd want to carry those bricks around if YOU _ DON'T _ HAVE _ TO

Offline Fire Brand

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 07:32:08 »
A X61t is still kicking here, it has been updated twice with Samsung SSDs the first was a commercial level one, the second a pro version, while it has only SATA-II interface runs faster than many modern machines:


Keyboard - check.
Display - decent.
Processor - decent.
GPU - sucks.
Build - check.


Overall a great machine.
I'm rocking a X61 here at work still on its little dock with a SSD upgrade, have to say its taken a beating but still runs like a champ for what it is (Dedicated diagnostic machine/web browsing and invoices :p )
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Offline Bromono

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 07:59:30 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

Offline nephiel

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 08:06:25 »
X131e here. It supports mSata so I have an extra SSD in the WAN slot. Not the fastest machine out there, but no slouch either, and it's overbuilt like a tank. Has a TrackPoint, too.
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Offline bocahgundul

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 08:07:16 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
may I ask why?

Offline Bromono

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 08:11:01 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

Offline Bromono

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 08:25:34 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 08:32:18 »
I'm forced to use Lenovo Thinkpads at work. They are an abomination compared to my old beloved T series.

Many people heart the old builds,    But honestly , the new ones are so much better..  there's really 0 reason you'd want to carry those bricks around if YOU _ DON'T _ HAVE _ TO

There are many reasons; you don't have to carry an old brick but the current Lenovos are a non-starter.  Reliability, security, and the lack of evolutionary bug fixing are all major issues with their products.

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

I've briefed a few folks from our IT department about this but never actually saw the news reports backing it up.  All of what I presented was my own findings lol.
I'm back.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 11:29:19 »
A X61t is still kicking here, it has been updated twice with Samsung SSDs the first was a commercial level one, the second a pro version, while it has only SATA-II interface runs faster than many modern machines:


Keyboard - check.
Display - decent.
Processor - decent.
GPU - sucks.
Build - check.


Overall a great machine.
I'm rocking a X61 here at work still on its little dock with a SSD upgrade, have to say its taken a beating but still runs like a champ for what it is (Dedicated diagnostic machine/web browsing and invoices :p )


I am pretty much into data analysis and writing some papers and for that this little old friend is more than enough.  :))

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 11:37:02 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Wow, that's scary. And I still use my T61, but only for casual browsing and such.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 11:41:48 »
Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

Offline Bromono

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 11:47:16 »
Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

I can tell you first hand its not a simple campaign against lenovo. Intel agencies wouldn't stop using them if it was just to put bad press on lenovo.

and having a rootkit in the bios/hardware really has nothing to do with the brand of chip sets.

it can be done with with any computer.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 November 2015, 11:52:19 by Bromono »

Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 11:59:35 »
Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

I can tell you first hand its not a simple campaign against lenovo. Intel agencies wouldn't stop using them if it was just to put bad press on lenovo.

and having a rootkit in the bios/hardware really has nothing to do with the brand of chip sets.

it can be done with with any computer.


Precisely, BIOS vulnerabilities exist in any computer; then, why it is stated as if it would be related with a single brand?

Offline Bromono

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:08:17 »
Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

I can tell you first hand its not a simple campaign against lenovo. Intel agencies wouldn't stop using them if it was just to put bad press on lenovo.

and having a rootkit in the bios/hardware really has nothing to do with the brand of chip sets.

it can be done with with any computer.


Precisely, BIOS vulnerabilities exist in any computer; then, why it is stated as if it would be related with a single brand?

A rootkit that has been installed on a fresh new laptop is not a vulnerability. A vulnerability is like an open port or a un-patched service. You cant get rid of a backdoor at the hardware level. And the only way they could have a backdoor at the hardware level and be brand new is A. Grey market B. Manufacturer put it there in the first place.

Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:22:15 »
When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.
I'm back.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:29:52 »
People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 :p

Offline Bromono

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:40:27 »
When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Great post. Thank you.

And you are right it is not just Lenovo doing things like this. Just recently they found backdoors in Arris cable modems.

I just threw the Lenovo fact in there so people where aware. I dont want to get into the nitty gritty of it.

cheers

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 :p

World war 2 was won heavily based on the fact we where able to decrypt their telegraphs and radio signals.

Nothing is safe!

Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:50:40 »
When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Great post. Thank you.

And you are right it is not just Lenovo doing things like this. Just recently they found backdoors in Arris cable modems.

I just threw the Lenovo fact in there so people where aware. I dont want to get into the nitty gritty of it.

cheers

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 :p

World war 2 was won heavily based on the fact we where able to decrypt their telegraphs and radio signals.

Nothing is safe!


Even Enigma machine was broken. That is the entire point.

Offline tufty

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 14:48:49 »
I enjoyed Thinkpads when I was a Windows man back in the day.

When I became a Mac OS man, I started drinking the Apple kool-aid. 

Now that I'm a Linux man, I'm not sure what type of laptop I should favor, but I like being able to still use Mac OS if I ever need it.  Windows, meh.
X220 with OSX on it.

Offline Firebolt1914

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 15:15:06 »
I have an X220T with arch and an SSD

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 17:11:23 »
Don't thinkpads have keyboard over-lighting?

Since no one answered you question, yes, they did.  My T500 had a light on the monitor I could turn on to illuminate the keyboard.


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From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Wow, that's scary. And I still use my T61, but only for casual browsing and such.

Those were issues with newer Lenovo laptops.  I believe it was after the T400 and T500 that they started doing it...or at least started doing it where people actually found out about it.


People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 :p

I know you're probably joking, but every system is vulnerable.  The only non-vulnerable system is one so obscure that no one know how it works (even then it may rely upon insecure input methods) or one that is never turned on and never leaves the hole it's buried in in the ground.  Typewriters rely on a ribbon that can be intercepted and read (a common spy tactic of old) and they can and have had keyloggers placed in them in the past.  The IBM Selectric was bugged by Soviet spies. 

And unless you transmit with a one time pad via telegraph, it would be easy as to intercept and decode.  Telegraphs rely on wires just like phones.  Unlike phones, they're analog instead of digital.  You can get encrypted phones or disposable phones that would be far more secure.

Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 17:23:22 »
Don't thinkpads have keyboard over-lighting?

Since no one answered you question, yes, they did.  My T500 had a light on the monitor I could turn on to illuminate the keyboard.


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From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Wow, that's scary. And I still use my T61, but only for casual browsing and such.

Those were issues with newer Lenovo laptops.  I believe it was after the T400 and T500 that they started doing it...or at least started doing it where people actually found out about it.


People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 :p

I know you're probably joking, but every system is vulnerable.  The only non-vulnerable system is one so obscure that no one know how it works (even then it may rely upon insecure input methods) or one that is never turned on and never leaves the hole it's buried in in the ground.  Typewriters rely on a ribbon that can be intercepted and read (a common spy tactic of old) and they can and have had keyloggers placed in them in the past.  The IBM Selectric was bugged by Soviet spies. 

And unless you transmit with a one time pad via telegraph, it would be easy as to intercept and decode.  Telegraphs rely on wires just like phones.  Unlike phones, they're analog instead of digital.  You can get encrypted phones or disposable phones that would be far more secure.


The intention was to put a reality in a funny way, maybe it read as a sarcasm, instead. Someone referred here to some security issues apparently related with just one particular brand of computers, while the fact is that, there is no system immune to security breaches, otherwise, companies with businesses in this area would not have any at all. The fact is even military systems are exposed. A good historic example was the Enigma code breaking that allowed allies to won the WW-II.


In all fairness this thread was about a particular model of PC, and now we are talking about security.


Getting back to the OP subject I am typing right now on my X61 and I was not able to find a keyboard as nice as this one in many other lap tops that I have tried, so far, including Macs.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 07 January 2016, 03:20:00 »
RIP Rich Sapper, designer of the IBM Thinkpad.  :(
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/06/thinkpad_designer_obituary/

Offline DanielT

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 07 January 2016, 03:25:14 »
I have a T400 and love it, at work I have an Apple thingy, totally hate it, I would never buy one for personal use mainly because of the ****ty OSX. I know T400 is heavy and not fancy looking but it's my favourite  :cool:
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Offline sth

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 07 January 2016, 03:25:37 »
RIP Rich Sapper, designer of the IBM Thinkpad.  :(
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/06/thinkpad_designer_obituary/

Oh no! I was just checking out his portfolio. awesome work.

To continue the necroposting... i have a macbook air from 2013 but my main machine is a thinkpad x301. awesome laptop.
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline davkol

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 07:21:33 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
Then you should never own a system with Intel AMT either, among other things.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 21:58:28 »
From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo
Then you should never own a system with Intel AMT either, among other things.

But Lenovo actually put malware into their BIOS so that it reinstalled each time you rebooted, whether you did a fresh Windows installation or not.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Altis

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 22:04:12 »
I like my T450S enough, though I wish the screen were bigger (15.6" 16:10).

The one thing that's driving me nuts with it is the trackpad. It's so jumpy, especially near the edges. It can be really difficult to highlight text, for example.

The keyboard is good in terms of travel and feel, but I made the mistake of getting the backlit keyboard which gives you glossy keycaps. The non-backlit keyboards have textured keycaps with pad printing and I prefer how they feel. My finger tips don't detect soft, smooth keycaps as well.
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Offline SamirD

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 22:46:03 »
When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.
Very interesting.  I've always thought there was stuff like this going on.

We're in the Information Age.  And like all ages before this, it's those can control the age that control the world.  Iron Age, Bronze Age, Industrial Age--all we controlled by those that controlled the material in the age.  So the battle ensues for control of the information--by Google, by Facebook, and by governments.  I told all this to my dad in the late 1990s.  :cool:
...at work I have an Apple thingy...
Isn't that an iThingy? lol!

So to add to the thread, I too miss the Thinkpads of yesteryear.  I could never afford one, but a couple of years ago a friend of mine gave me a 750cs--a lowly 486, but fully loaded with enough ram to run win95 and can probably win3.1 like a champ.  I still have it too, just haven't powered it on in forever.  They keyboard is still as nice as ever.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 January 2016, 22:47:47 by SamirD »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 23:06:05 »
corporate espionage is very very real..

And the federal governments are by far the world's largest corporations.


Think of it this way.. espionage is better than war, because espionage is cheaper, and people don't die as quickly..




Offline SamirD

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 23:32:01 »
...and people don't die as quickly...
Or with as much fuss.


Offline rowdy

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 23:33:38 »
...and people don't die as quickly...
Or with as much fuss.



Or with as much mess.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ideus

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 10 January 2016, 16:27:18 »
corporate espionage is very very real..

And the federal governments are by far the world's largest corporations.


Think of it this way.. espionage is better than war, because espionage is cheaper, and people don't die as quickly..

A good subject for a new season of 24, the TV series.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 10 January 2016, 16:42:18 »
When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Wow.  Very interesting.  And scary.

I wonder how much this happens with all modern computer technology, not just Lenovo, considering how much is made in China and how large corporations and governments are linked these days.
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Offline SamirD

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 11 January 2016, 20:02:32 »
Wow.  Very interesting.  And scary.

I wonder how much this happens with all modern computer technology, not just Lenovo, considering how much is made in China and how large corporations and governments are linked these days.
Probably a lot, lot, lot more than we think.  We're just pawns in a bigger game...


Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 17:52:21 »
necro time.

I've been thinking about buying a Thinkpad because my T420 is too slow for my needs (among other outdated aspects), but then I remember all the security issues discussed in this thread and it makes me hesitant.
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Offline Belfong

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Re: Thinkpads
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 19:24:34 »
then Carbon is absolutely wonderful. I’d recommend that.