Author Topic: Antivax ?  (Read 423 times)

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Offline chyros

  • a.k.a. Thomas
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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 08:42:05 »
Wait, how does that work, that doesn't make much sense to me Oo .
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 09:18:13 »
There are a small number of vaccinated people who do still get infected, but their symptoms are almost always mild and very rarely do they end up in hospital (or worse).
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 July 2021, 13:13:29 by fohat.digs »
"We must adjust to changing times and still hold to unchanging principles." – The bold and brilliant dream which excited the founders of this Nation still awaits its consummation. Ours was the first society openly to define itself in terms of both spirituality and of human liberty. It is that unique self–definition which has given us an exceptional appeal, but it also imposes on us a special obligation: to take on those moral duties which, when assumed, seem invariably to be in our own best interests.
The American dream endures. We must once again have full faith in our country – and in one another. I believe America can be better. We can be even stronger than before. Let our recent mistakes bring a resurgent commitment to the basic principles of our Nation, for we know that if we despise our own government we have no future. We recall in special times when we have stood briefly, but magnificently, united. In those times no prize was beyond our grasp.
But we cannot dwell upon remembered glory. We cannot afford to drift. Our Government must at the same time be both competent and compassionate. Our Nation can be strong abroad only if it is strong at home. And we know that the best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. To be true to ourselves, we must be true to others. We must not behave in foreign places so as to violate our rules and standards here at home, for we know that the trust which our Nation earns is essential to our strength. 
– excerpts from Jimmy Carter inauguration speech 1977

Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 14:59:57 »
TP if those numbers were not purposefully misleading covid19 would be a miracle, killing off 99% of stupids would be great for the future of the human race, but i feel that those numbers, as tipycal with indicators, were carefully massaged, and incorrectly labeled. (i made indicators at my work and they ended up not using them because they could not massage the data... so yeah i do not trust random indicators).
Lying either way is bad, even for the right reasons, you will give ammo to the opposition by lying...
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Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 16:25:18 »
I'm vaccinated and I think everyone should be vaccinated. However, aren't those numbers including all cases from before a vaccine was available?  Doesn't seem like good data representation if so.

EDIT-

Oh i see.  Since Jan 1 of this year.  What date was the vaccine available?  Don't remember.

EDIT AGAIN --

Looks like the first doses of vaccine landed in VA around mid Dec 2020.  7 months with only 18 breaktrhough deaths for 4.2million shots.  Holy smokes, those are pretty good numbers.  Hard to overlook that.  But what would the anti-vaxers say?  I'm sure something about sterile, baby-eating lizard people and space lasers.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 July 2021, 16:57:44 by pixelpusher »

Offline cest73

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 17:38:27 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 17:46:36 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Gene therapy is not a protected term, so it can refer to alot of things/ medical procedures.

What is the beef with gene therapy, is it not still good ? it's got therapy in the name does it not ?

Your DNA changes all the time as it responds to environmental stimuli even if nothing was injected. Just from the food a person eats, it changes gene expression.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 18:59:44 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Ha. Do enlighten why that's a sad thing.  Sadly, i got a bag full of gold instead of a bag full of peanuts?  Is it like that?
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 July 2021, 19:05:42 by pixelpusher »

Offline cest73

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 03:33:58 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Ha. Do enlighten why that's a sad thing.  Sadly, i got a bag full of gold instead of a bag full of peanuts?  Is it like that?

It is not a bag of something, it is more like you paid for a bus ride ("get vaccine") but you took part in a massive car accident ("gene therapy")

Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Gene therapy is not a protected term, so it can refer to alot of things/ medical procedures.

What is the beef with gene therapy, is it not still good ? it's got therapy in the name does it not ?

Your DNA changes all the time as it responds to environmental stimuli even if nothing was injected. Just from the food a person eats, it changes gene expression.

If my DNA (or RNA for that matter) changes by food and environment already, it does so by inputs that are consistent with at least several generations now even be it across the globe - food is surprisingly uniform chemistry and DNA - or you are on the quick way to ER or cemetery, depending on the particular case.

With synthesized industrial whatever - well, what can i say, it's not something your gran'pa ate and lived to procreate your father, we are yet to see how this all pans out in the long term, once smoking too was prescribed to pregnant woman by the very doctors of that time and DDT was advertised as safe as taking a shower, along asbestos, lead and FCKW (OG spray propellant gas)...

All i say is something is not good just because it is shiny and new, it has to be proven by time too.
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 July 2021, 03:35:29 by cest73 »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 05:50:02 »
Of the 8,787 people who have died in Texas due to COVID-19 since early February

99.5% of people who died due to COVID-19 in Texas from Feb. 8 to July 14 were unvaccinated, while 0.5% were the result of “breakthrough infections,” which DSHS defines as people who contracted the virus two weeks after being fully vaccinated.

Thanks Gene Therapy. Some prefer death, owning the libs

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 22:24:27 »
If my DNA (or RNA for that matter) changes by food and environment already, it does so by inputs that are consistent with at least several generations now even be it across the globe - food is surprisingly uniform chemistry and DNA - or you are on the quick way to ER or cemetery, depending on the particular case.

With synthesized industrial whatever - well, what can i say, it's not something your gran'pa ate and lived to procreate your father, we are yet to see how this all pans out in the long term, once smoking too was prescribed to pregnant woman by the very doctors of that time and DDT was advertised as safe as taking a shower, along asbestos, lead and FCKW (OG spray propellant gas)...

All i say is something is not good just because it is shiny and new, it has to be proven by time too.

Yes, those chemicals were bad, yes, the companies all said they were safe,  our gov. (like many) doesn't pre-test industrial chemicals like it does drugs, it's reactive, not pro-active, it relies on the companies to tell it whether something is is safe and well, they lie.

Food and drugs however are are pro-active but that is relatively new. Doctors did used to prescribe that, the key word is used to, regulations have changed since then and today it's difficult to get a doctor to recommend an off-label use and when they do, they usually make darn sure they know what they're getting into before hand.
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Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 00:51:14 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Gene therapy is not a protected term, so it can refer to alot of things/ medical procedures.

What is the beef with gene therapy, is it not still good ? it's got therapy in the name does it not ?

Your DNA changes all the time as it responds to environmental stimuli even if nothing was injected. Just from the food a person eats, it changes gene expression.

i am not a biologist, but from the extensive reading and sci-show watching i did, i think you are both either very very wrong or partially wrong
it is not proper gene therapy, it does not have any long lasting DNA modification, just hijacking cells the produce fake viruses like a normal virus would do (well a normal one would not produce fakes).
and for TP, no your DNA does not change with what you eat, well not in a controlled manner, it get damaged by oxygen and random radiations as time goes on, (and it is a rather good thing that DNA does not change with the food you eat, imagine you hate and asparagus and grew 30cm and became blonde, well more likely eat something and get instant cancer), external stimuli can change some response over long times but not nearly as much as your response seem to imply, and only responses to the DNA changes not the DNA itself.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 05:06:46 »
external stimuli can change some response over long times but not nearly as much as your response seem to imply, and only responses to the DNA changes not the DNA itself.

Incorrect, dna can be upregulated/downregulated. The LARGEST external chemical exposure any animal engages in is food intake, both in volume and contact area.

Even behavior such as paternal stress response can be tracked and correlated through offspring born in different time periods, clear indication of dna impact.

It wouldn't make ANY SENSE for dna to be non-modifiable by the body. We share the same genetic root as plants, humans are 70% in common with a tree.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 07:46:46 »

it's difficult to get a doctor to recommend an off-label use


Regulations are frighteningly lame. Fear of lawsuits is what actually holds them back, one of the rare instances where "the markets" are more influential than "regulations" in a positive way.
"We must adjust to changing times and still hold to unchanging principles." – The bold and brilliant dream which excited the founders of this Nation still awaits its consummation. Ours was the first society openly to define itself in terms of both spirituality and of human liberty. It is that unique self–definition which has given us an exceptional appeal, but it also imposes on us a special obligation: to take on those moral duties which, when assumed, seem invariably to be in our own best interests.
The American dream endures. We must once again have full faith in our country – and in one another. I believe America can be better. We can be even stronger than before. Let our recent mistakes bring a resurgent commitment to the basic principles of our Nation, for we know that if we despise our own government we have no future. We recall in special times when we have stood briefly, but magnificently, united. In those times no prize was beyond our grasp.
But we cannot dwell upon remembered glory. We cannot afford to drift. Our Government must at the same time be both competent and compassionate. Our Nation can be strong abroad only if it is strong at home. And we know that the best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. To be true to ourselves, we must be true to others. We must not behave in foreign places so as to violate our rules and standards here at home, for we know that the trust which our Nation earns is essential to our strength. 
– excerpts from Jimmy Carter inauguration speech 1977