MX-brown, Impressions + Hate thread

[1391406]

Shockingly, if you remove the sound from the equation, a model M isn't as tactile as you think.

That depends on how you define tactile. Personally, I think Model M's are the most tactile of all the keyboards I've used in terms of key-pop. There's a more perceptible bump, at least to my sensibilities.

[tp4tissue]

The clear stem is supposed to provide a much more prevalent tactile "bump".  I haven't tried them (yet) but I expect that they'll be more like Realforce switches that have a "pop" in them that you can still feel as a "pop" when typing at speed.

Everyone needs to also remember that Cherry calls the brown switch "ergonomic" and not "tactile".  Other people have called browns "tactile".  If Cherry never meant them to be dubbed tactile, perhaps we shouldn't bash them and their switch for not being highly tactile - they were never meant to be highly tactile.

Based on my previous posts about how the brown's bump is enough to train the brain but not enough to feel like a bump (unless compared to a linear) I think that "ergonomic" is an excellent term to use.  These properties are also probably why companies like Kinesis have used the brown all along.

They can call it chick-magnet 5000,, it still doesn't mean you're getting laid.

The tactility is clearly below sensation threshold.

[Exoverture]

I bought a nice Filco TKL with browns, slapped on some PBT keys, and I haven't looked for a new keyboard since. It has now been over a year.

Feels good to be completely satisfied with a keyboard, rather than always looking for that better one.

[tp4tissue]

I bought a nice Filco TKL with browns, slapped on some PBT keys, and I haven't looked for a new keyboard since. It has now been over a year.

Feels good to be completely satisfied with a keyboard, rather than always looking for that better one.

You either have Stockholm syndrome, or belief perseverance..  So, you got ****ed over by inferior product, but you have to psychologically justify the expense to maintain your ego. Grow up, buy a better board. Sell your old one to some n00b.

[lightsout714]

You either have Stockholm syndrome, or belief perseverance..  So, you got ****ed over by inferior product, but you have to psychologically justify the expense to maintain your ego. Grow up, buy a better board. Sell your old one to some n00b.

:blah:

[Phil21]

Browns seem to perhaps be better for the accomplished touch-typist.  Unfortunately I grew up without typing classes, and have some rather bastardized version of how I type.  It's not slow - I average anywhere from 80-110wpm on typeracer, but I think I strike the keys a lot harder that I would if I would have learned to touch type properly.

With that said, I prefer blues.   I do wish they were less loud - but with the exact same "click" feel when you know you've just about actuated the key.  I just can't seem to get up to max speed with the browns, although it may simply due to being far more familiar with the blues.  When I find a good deal on a TKL w/ Blacks, I'll pick it up to compare as well.

I will say browns are far better than any rubber dome I've used.  I do prefer them to my IBM Thinkpad keyboards, but the difference isn't as noticeable going from the laptop to the browns as it is to blues.

[vurt]

This thread = gold.

Typed on a Filco MJ2 with MX Browns.

[rknize]

You either have Stockholm syndrome, or belief perseverance..  So, you got ****ed over by inferior product, but you have to psychologically justify the expense to maintain your ego. Grow up, buy a better board. Sell your old one to some n00b.

It's your thread, so you are certainly entitled to your opinion (even if it's wrong).  Maybe you could start your own forum!

[rknize]

ripster...something is wrong with GH.  I don't see any pics attached to your last post.

[daerid]

You either have Stockholm syndrome, or belief perseverance..  So, you got ****ed over by inferior product, but you have to psychologically justify the expense to maintain your ego. Grow up, buy a better board. Sell your old one to some n00b.

It's rare to find such blatant trolling here on GH. Kudos

[rknize]

That's not the universe, I'm afraid...I don't care what you religion says.

[tp4tissue]

It's rare to find such blatant trolling here on GH. Kudos

Just presenting the facts, I am !!

[rknize]

Your perception of them is fascinating, I will admit.

[tp4tissue]

Stockholm syndrome was good too.  I was imagining Cherry Brown users stuck in their Moms basement at 30 and thinking that was normal.  Blue Cherry users are at their Wall Street desks banging away on their Blue Cherries at Goldman Sachs saying, FU - I'm a Boss!

LOL, just stuff i picked up in the newspapers.

[captain]

Blues = Ron Paul
Reds = Rick Perry
Browns = Barak Obama
Blacks = Hilary Clinton
Ergo Clears = Ross Perot
Buckling Springs = FDR
ALPS Complicated = Dennis Ritchie
DataHand = Steve Wozniak

[omuerte]

I'm late to the party - I've found clears and blacks too stiff, blues annoyingly loud (unless you want to piss off the rest of the office, or wake up your SO,) reds a bit too light, and browns annoyingly light in their tactility.

i'm going to have to go with Cherry MX switches suck, HURRRRR

[tp4tissue]

I'm late to the party - I've found clears and blacks too stiff, blues annoyingly loud (unless you want to piss off the rest of the office, or wake up your SO,) reds a bit too light, and browns annoyingly light in their tactility.

i'm going to have to go with Cherry MX switches suck, HURRRRR

Hmmmm. Does anyone have decibel ratings towards ending this BLUEs are too loud argument?  

The loudest part of the keypress happens to be the bottom out, and rebound click (where the stem hits the top)

The egg crack mx-blue click is very miniscule compared to the above.


Although, i suppose one could make the argument that since the egg click is higher frequency it is perceived as louder than the lower frequency bottom-out and rebound click....



I'm gonna look for some hard numbers,, not sure what to query, hmm.. frequency vs perceived loudness.

HOLY ****,, ok it's on wiki

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44857[/ATTACH]


I do not have a good microphone, would someone with a good microphone record SINGLE blue switch for me, ONE with o-ring dampening, and One without??

Obviously I needn't remind, that placement matters. LOL

[captain]

You can find audio recordings of many of the keyboards you are talking about on youtube.  Here, let me:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Ayoutube.com+compare+cherry+switch+sounds



If you want the easy way out, jut put on your headphones and watch this:

[video=youtube;mi1GejndyeQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1GejndyeQ[/video]

[captain]

I am typing on my newly rekeyed and gasketed Filco MJ2 Cherry Blue board here.  Together, these mods seem to have quieted things down a bit. I didn't gasket the number keys or the space bar, and they are louder.  This leads me to conclude that the loudness is coming from the key/switch claking as it bottoms out, and not from the Cherry Blue switch's clicking mechanism.  That is, as many have said here, more of a rattling Lego or eggshell sound.

Also, maybe I just have a special set of Cherry Blues, but I can *definitely* FEEL the "bump".  I have headphones on now, and am being influenced by audio feedback less than usual, if at all.  On my browns, I would say that the "bump" feels more like a bit of dirt that got into a Cherry Red switch.  The main thing that I prefer about the Reds and Browns is that the keys seem to be held more securely, while the Blues seem to be just a little bit wobbly.  If the more tactile bump of the Blues could be installed into Blues or Reds, I think that I would have the holy grail, or at least a close approximation of how I remember my Magitronics FK-5001 felt.

When did the kids start saying "typer"?  It's TYPIST!  :-P

[tp4tissue]

For those too damn lazy to push a few buttons, put on your headphones and watch this:

[video=youtube;mi1GejndyeQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1GejndyeQ[/video]

Yea, this is exactly what I worry about,, very unscientific..   If one was to base their opinion of loudness on this type of demonstration...

[omuerte]

No no, I'm still going with "CHERRY MX SUCK HURRRRRRRRR."

What's unscientific about that?

[tp4tissue]

No no, I'm still going with "CHERRY MX SUCK HURRRRRRRRR."

What's unscientific about that?

No control, no baseline measurements, no precision in keystroke execution.

Hence, unscientific.

[omuerte]

No control, no baseline measurements, no precision in keystroke execution.

Hence, unscientific.

Ok, I'll bite. Control - this rubber dome keyboard sucks. Baseline measurement - this rubber dome keyboard sucks. Precision keystroke measurement - this Cherry MX switch sucks 1.02389 mega balls-in-mouth-inhalations (according to an empirical balls-in-mouth-inhalation measurement from your mom) of suck. What's there not to love?

[xquisit]

Blues = Ron Paul

Nice

[omuerte]

Blues = Ron Paul

Nice

Dude they've got Ron Paulsey, no one will vote for them.

[rknize]

I'm late to the party - I've found clears and blacks too stiff, blues annoyingly loud (unless you want to piss off the rest of the office, or wake up your SO,) reds a bit too light, and browns annoyingly light in their tactility.

Well if I take an average of all of your comments, it seems like ergo-clears are the ticket for you.  They are slightly stiffer than browns/reds and quite tactile.  They sound about the same as browns and respond well to o-rings/pads.

[rknize]

I am typing on my newly rekeyed and gasketed Filco MJ2 Cherry Blue board here.  Together, these mods seem to have quieted things down a bit. I didn't gasket the number keys or the space bar, and they are louder.  This leads me to conclude that the loudness is coming from the key/switch claking as it bottoms out, and not from the Cherry Blue switch's clicking mechanism.  That is, as many have said here, more of a rattling Lego or eggshell sound.

Indeed, the Lego sound swamps the click in terms of loudness.  I don't think it's about decibels, though.  Model Ms are louder than any Cherry switch.  I think it's the high-pitch of the "tick" of the blues that is particularly annoying.  That combined with the ringing from PCB-mounted switches makes me want to chuck the board.  Also some of my keys do this irritating "buzz", which I assume is the jumping bean vibrating after it smacks the bottom of the key well.  It sounds so cheap.

[captain]

Blues = Ron Paul

Nice

LOL, yeah:  Everyone really wants them, whether they know it or not, and would be better off with them, but will go along with the Brown crowd, because that's what gets the most "noise". Irony!  The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but the clicky board gets the boot.

Oh!  I totally forgot Topre!  

Probably because I only just got my first keyboard with Topre switches, and the jury is still out. I half want to cry, for spending $350 on a rubber dome keyboard. But it does have a nice feel to it; the form factor, and layout seems well thought out; yet it positions itself as the One Board To Rule Them All.

Topre =
     Full 55g Realforce = Newt Gingrich
     Realforce U87 = Nanci Pelosi
     HHKB = Alan Greenspan


WTF, why is there no TAB on iPad???
;-P

[captain]

I think this Blues hatred is reverse-McGurk: you hear something and it changes your view.  I felt the same way about the Subaru WRX; it felt cheap and plastic. Meanwhile, the VW 337 felt solid, but still fun.  I would have gone faster and more error-free with the extra 40HP and AWD of the Subaru, but I was just happier in the VW.

Blues = WRX
Browns = 337

Cherry switches are about as good as it gets for the masses these days. The only things that compare, in my experience, are ALPS Complicated, and Old School IBM Buckling Springs. (jury still out on Unicomp). Neither of those are still made, and old ones are old and showing deterioration.

FWIW, the best feeling keyboard I have typed on since joining geekhack is on an old IBM Wheelwriter at the library. Light but solid touch, medium travel, clear click at activation point, nice solid WHACK as hammer hits wheel, hits ribbon, hits paper, hits roller.  If only someone could emulate that in a computer keyboard!  :-)

[daerid]

If the VW 337 is the GTI (in the US), I agree 100%. I f**king <3 the GTI.

[captain]

337 = anniversary special edition GTI. Only 1500 made. 337 was the code name for the original GTI project. ;-)

Alas, I was in the middle of a 5-car pileup, and insurance company refuses to pay up. I spent all my money on keyboards and cannot afford to fix the 337. :-(

[tp4tissue]

337 = anniversary special edition GTI. Only 1500 made. 337 was the code name for the original GTI project. ;-)

Alas, I was in the middle of a 5-car pileup, and insurance company refuses to pay up. I spent all my money on keyboards and cannot afford to fix the 337. :-(

OR you could get an R32 skyline for ~$15,000  Now that's a real "fun car."

[xquisit]

Or you can spend that $15,000 on mechanical keyboards, and make a lot of people in this world happy that are currently using rubber-domes!

[c0rbin]

I'm a heavy, fast typer who just put o-rings on my Browns and I love it so far. The reduced travel means I can type just as fast as I can on a scissor switch keyboard...

[tp4tissue]

I'm a heavy, fast typer who just put o-rings on my Browns and I love it so far. The reduced travel means I can type just as fast as I can on a scissor switch keyboard...

Ummm.... too bad mx-brown isn't tactile enough to achieve ultimate speeed.  The key to all games is hit confirm... blue has it, brown, not so much

[Surly73]

Ummm.... too bad mx-brown isn't tactile enough to achieve ultimate speeed.  The key to all games is hit confirm... blue has it, brown, not so much

Wait...what?  You were only talking about gaming?  And here I thought we were talking about typing.

[Exoverture]

You either have Stockholm syndrome, or belief perseverance..  So, you got ****ed over by inferior product, but you have to psychologically justify the expense to maintain your ego. Grow up, buy a better board. Sell your old one to some n00b.

What? I think you have way too much time on your hands and going insane in that cave of yours. Just a guess.

Also, I am just satisfied. I'm not a poor soul always looking for something better, which does not exist, and all while wasting so much money in the process.

I wouldn't make a thread trying to confirm your opinion that 'browns suck' and trying to engrave it in people's mind to help yourself think you made the right decision

[tp4tissue]

What? I think you have way too much time on your hands and going insane in that cave of yours. Just a guess.

Also, I am just satisfied. I'm not a poor soul always looking for something better, which does not exist, and all while wasting so much money in the process.

I wouldn't make a thread trying to confirm your opinion that 'browns suck' and trying to engrave it in people's mind to help yourself think you made the right decision

This would be the case if I "didn't" buy every type of keyboard from amazon, and returned all the ones except for mx-blue.

Too much time,, perhaps,, cave,, also yes,, but it's a cave with internet..

BTW,, browns suck.

[tp4tissue]

Wait...what?  You were only talking about gaming?  And here I thought we were talking about typing.

Have you ever played piano??  Try doing that with gloves,,, that is what mx browns feel like. No hit confirm,, and by "game" i was including all undertakings that are commonly done with a keyboard, including but not limited to actual video games. Things like typeracer, and 10fast are included.

[Forin]

Browns are too soft for me.  Blues with o-rings are ideal.

[Broaches]

i think that the browns are ok for typing, but then i really prefer the blue becuz it has a strong "clicky" feeling than the browns

[fossala]

I used to like boards because they were clicky. Now I think that boards are good even though they are clicky (model M for instance).