Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread

[do_Og@n]

Well I finally bought myself another Fountain Pen and I'm just waiting for it to show up.

Do you guys prefer Rhodia over Clairefontaine? From my research I see that they are the same paper....is that correct?

My Clairefontaine feels smoother than my Rhodia. I find that ink takes longer to dry on the Clairfontaine so personally I prefer the Rhodia. I can do a paper sample for you later today if you'd like.

That would be awesome!!! I'm looking to start buying good paper so any input is greatly appreciated.

Captain has helped me out a lot as well and I have another question for you all. I have 2 Lamy Safari pens.

1 of them I can't keep the nib wet enough to write consistantly and the other seems to leak? Is there anything I can do to fix this?

[CPTBadAss]

Um the leak question is a bit vague. Do you have your converter seated correctly? Is your nib started correctly?

If it's not wet enough, try using a thin sheet of metal or something thin enough to get between the tines of nib. Floss them gently like you would your teeth. If that doesn't work, try doing a little research on bending the nib. I can't remember which way you slightly bend it, up or down, to get a wetter flow. Also try flushing your pen again. Could have something in your feed or something messing with the flow. Finally, safari nibs are relatively cheap and easily swappable.

Just FYI, not to discourage any participation, but there are plenty of resources to check writing and paper samples. Ed jelley, gourmet pen, gouletpens blog, fountain pen network, and sbrebrown are some of my favorites. The info is already out there if you don't want to wait. But I love the enthusiasm. Please don't let that info stop you from doing your own samples and sharing your own experience.

[do_Og@n]

Um the leak question is a bit vague. Do you have your converter seated correctly? Is your nib started correctly?

If it's not wet enough, try using a thin sheet of metal or something thin enough to get between the tines of nib. Floss them gently like you would your teeth. If that doesn't work, try doing a little research on bending the nib. I can't remember which way you slightly bend it, up or down, to get a wetter flow. Also try flushing your pen again. Could have something in your feed or something messing with the flow. Finally, safari nibs are relatively cheap and easily swappable.

Thanks Captain!!! I'll give the flossing a try.

On the leaking one...I've cleaned it a couple times and every time I fill it I make sure its seeded all the way and in the correct position. I know how the Lamy Safari pen has that notch where the ink well sits. After that every time I put on the cap, leave it for a bit (couple minutes or so), and then remove it there is ink all over the tip and some where I hold it.

And when I write with it the ink distribution isn't even....I'll try to get you an example later.

[CPTBadAss]

Sounds like you've got a crack in the section but I'm not really an expert and is hard to know without seeing the pen.

[do_Og@n]

Sounds like you've got a crack in the section but I'm not really an expert and is hard to know without seeing the pen.

I'll get some pictures of the pen as well. Thanks again Cap....it's good to finally get back into Pens.

[Binge]

I prefer Rhodia R, SN^2, and Tomoe River to clairfontaine

[CPTBadAss]

Sounds like you've got a crack in the section but I'm not really an expert and is hard to know without seeing the pen.

I'll get some pictures of the pen as well. Thanks again Cap....it's good to finally get back into Pens.

That's not what your wallet is saying I'm sure . But I'm glad you're enjoying the hobby

[do_Og@n]

Here is an image of the pen when I take off the cap (this is after a good cleaning and a new refill)



Here is how it writes in comparison of my other Lamy Safari that writes a little dry.

[Larken]

Here is an image of the pen when I take off the cap (this is after a good cleaning and a new refill)

Show Image

Here is how it writes in comparison of my other Lamy Safari that writes a little dry.

Show Image

How old is that leaking lamy, and have you been tinkering with it? The tines on the nib seems to be spread quite far compared to the safari I have on hand.

[CPTBadAss]

Agreed. Those tines aren't looking good.

[do_Og@n]

Here is an image of the pen when I take off the cap (this is after a good cleaning and a new refill)

Show Image

Here is how it writes in comparison of my other Lamy Safari that writes a little dry.

Show Image

How old is that leaking lamy, and have you been tinkering with it? The tines on the nib seems to be spread quite far compared to the safari I have on hand.

It's about 4 months old but I haven't used it much since it hasn't worked well. The package was slightly damaged when I bought it which might be the contributing factor as to why it leaks.

[Larken]

could you take a few pictures of the whole pen? In particular, the end of the pen where 'LAMY' is embossed on the side, and the 'cross' at the top of the pen cap.

Just curious as there have been reports of online sellers selling knock-off Safaris that look very similar to the real thing, but the quality is mostly not up to par as well as fit issues. Could be a reason why the pen never worked well.

if you like, you could check your pen against the pictures in the following thread in the posts near the bottom. http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/267633-buyer-beware-lamy-safari-on-ebay/

[do_Og@n]

I agree that both pens aren't as good as I thought they would be. I'm hoping they are a fake to justify that.

[CPTBadAss]

Where did you buy the pens from?

[do_Og@n]

Compared a photo of them to a photo on Lamy's site and noticed this...

[do_Og@n]

Where did you buy the pens from?

Ebay....for cheap too. That should have been my first sign.

[CPTBadAss]

Where did you buy the pens from?

Ebay....for cheap too. That should have been my first sign.

Your nib looks really weird actually. I noticed that in the first picture too. I'm guessing you got a bootleg and it's not up to Lamy's QC control . If you like, I can loan you one of my Lamys for you to try out. I know mine are legit.

And those misaligned tines would cause your nib to write dry.

[do_Og@n]

Where did you buy the pens from?

Ebay....for cheap too. That should have been my first sign.

Your nib looks really weird actually. I noticed that in the first picture too. I'm guessing you got a bootleg and it's not up to Lamy's QC control . If you like, I can loan you one of my Lamys for you to try out. I know mine are legit.

And those misaligned tines would cause your nib to write dry.

I appreciate the offer but I've got an older Pilot pen on it's way. That will be my go to for now until I get a nice Levenger or Monteverde.

[CPTBadAss]

I've got an older Pilot pen on it's way. That will be my go to for now until I get a nice Pilot 74/92/Vanishing Point or Pelikan M100/200/205.

Fixed that for you

[do_Og@n]

I've got an older Pilot pen on it's way. That will be my go to for now until I get a nice Pilot 74/92/Vanishing Point or Pelikan M100/200/205.

Fixed that for you

[Larken]

I agree that both pens aren't as good as I thought they would be. I'm hoping they are a fake to justify that.

Show Image

I can't be sure, but you could have gotten knock offs. The embossing on the fakes doesn't have clean lines as their tolerances for that aren't great. But yea, as CBA mentioned, I thought your nib looked a little weird in the pictures too, which was why I wondered if you got a knockoff. From how much of a nail Lamy nibs are, some substantial damage would have to occur to the pen to get the tines spread like yours.

p.s. Pilots and Pelikans are niceeeeee.....

[do_Og@n]

So my Pilot showed up a LOT sooner than expected.



That picture you can't quite see the colors of the pen so here is a shot from where I bought it.



So far I am loving the way it writes and looks. It's a little smaller than I'm used to but that's my only complaint.

[CPTBadAss]

Huh never seen that one before. Wonder if that's the same as a Pilot Birdie.

[jdcarpe]

Saw this on Massdrop, and thought of you fountain pen guys.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ledr-tool-roll?mode=guest_open

[tp4tissue]

Saw this on Massdrop, and thought of you fountain pen guys.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ledr-tool-roll?mode=guest_open

This WILL scratch your pen.. waste of time..

[Larken]

a tad lazy to pull out the camera for shots of the new pen, but here's a page of my handwriting (rather messy, I know) to share.



Not the easiest pen to use as it's fairly finicky with regards to its flexing capabilities, but I do like it very much. It almost certainly railroads when I try to write double lines (except for some rare moments) and I had to try it out with a few different inks to see what worked best with it; the Pelikan 4001s aren't great. Waterman shades really well, but railroading is a major problem.

In the end, I went with the Pilot Blue-Black - for some reason, it railroads a little less, but has fairly minimal shading; it is however a great workhorse ink, being very water resistant (but not totally), and... it comes in a 350ml soda bottle for about 20 bucks.

As for the nib, I did know what I was getting into from online reviews that this more of a soft nib (and very soft it is) than an actual flex pen. I'd still stick with my needlepoint for work, but the FA is almost addictively fun to mess around with.

[rowdy]

Noob questions - I had a fountain pen set years ago, and spent half a day recently looking for it, but it was either discarded or is hidden in a mislabelled box somewhere since the last house move.  I never really used it anyway.  But I am always on the lookout for a new pen.

1. Is the deal from Massdrop worth it?  As an alternative I could pick up one or two pens cheaply from a local office supplies shop, say Pilot disposables for around $6 if that would give me the general feel of a fountain pen.

2. Do you need special paper?  I noticed the inclusion of paper in the Massdrop bundle, and also discussions above, but is it necessary?  The paper in the notebooks I tend to use is fairly thin and might end up causing problems with a fountain pen.  Maybe.

3. And does anyone feel that their writing has improved with a fountain pen?  Mine is pretty crappy unless I write really slowly and concentrate on each letter, otherwise the letters just seem to flow together in one elongated scribble.

Thanks

[Larken]

Hi rowdy,

1. I'll assume you're talking about the deal from https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pilot-fountain-pen-starter-set?
In terms of value (what you pay for versus the retail of those items), I'd say its not too bad for someone looking to get a feel of fountain pens. The metro is the real star there, and the fact that its nibs are interchangeably with the 3 plumix pens in the pack is a pretty good way to test out several different nibs at once (with some fiddling). However, my experience with varsities has not been great (too wet, too broad, but it does write very smooth; and somewhat related to your question on paper - the medium sized nibs on lousy paper won't perform well (lots of feathering). If you decide to go for disposables, try the platinum preppy in fine/extra fine. I find it gives a better sense of using a fountain pen, and its not too hard to convert to a eyedropper if you wish to.

2. Special paper is not exactly 'required' but some pens/ink will end up feathering all over lower quality paper. I typically go for paper that's about 80 gsm at least. Certain fine tipped, dry pens paired with drier flowing inks will work fine even on lousy paper. I use a custom ground needlepoint for such paper, and it works fine. My other pens will look rather bad on the same paper.

3. Yes, but probably not solely due to the use of a fountain pen. It does improve your form somewhat (provided you make the effort to adjust), but practice is probably the bigger factor, as well as the conscious effort to improve.

[rowdy]

Thanks for that

What nib would people recommend for a beginner - fine or medium?

I usually prefer fine tipped ball point pens, but somehow write better with medium ball point pens.

[Larken]

how fine are your ballpoint pens? As a reference, I used to use the Pilot Hi-Tec 0.4mm as my pen of choice.

When I switched to fountain pens, I wanted a similar line, but even the western EF was a little too broad for me, and that's the lowest it goes without a custom grind. Was fine with a dry ink, however, but still didn't look great when I wrote on non-FP friendly paper like a moleskin notebook I got as a gift. I too, wanted something that could work on all sorts of paper, and eventually settled on a needlepoint, which in retrospect, I realised I could have just gone for Japan made nibs instead.

For Japan made pens, they generally run a little finer than western nibs; for example the preppy mentioned before is a Japanese EF, which is usually around a 0.2mm, and F about 0.3mm, and M goes around 0.5mm. These usually differ slightly between manufacturers. Just a general rule of thumb, a Japanese F about the same as a Western EF and so on.

but if you're going to be using your pens on non-FP friendly papers, I'd recommend something finer, probably a Japanese F, or something in-between like a fine-medium (only exists for some brands). Japanese EF nibs are usually rather toothy unless that's what you're looking for.

[rowdy]

I think they're 0.5mm.

I have no idea about half of what you said )  Maybe it's better for me to start at the bottom, with the aforementioned $6 disposables, and see if they actually feather on the paper I have, and whether my writing is any more or less illegible with it.

The one I was looking at is a Pilot V Pen btw, apparently 5mm nib.

This is a whole new area for me to spend money I don't have, too )

[CPTBadAss]

Do you like a thinner or thicker line rowdy?  That's probably more important than your question of what's best for beginners.

If you do opt to not get some nicer paper, a fine might suit you better though. Some cheaper papers are better than others.

And I agree with Larken on #3. It won't instantly improve your handwriting. Rather, it provides a pleasant and smooth writing experience which encourages me to write more. More writing means more practice and your handwriting improves. It also forces you to write slower.

[do_Og@n]

Just ordered a Lamy AL-star off Massdrop. Finally!!! a real Lamy.

[Binge]

Just ordered a Lamy AL-star off Massdrop. Finally!!! a real Lamy.

You'll love it.  I love my Lamy Vista w/broad nib.

[rowdy]

Do you like a thinner or thicker line rowdy?  That's probably more important than your question of what's best for beginners.

If you do opt to not get some nicer paper, a fine might suit you better though. Some cheaper papers are better than others.

And I agree with Larken on #3. It won't instantly improve your handwriting. Rather, it provides a pleasant and smooth writing experience which encourages me to write more. More writing means more practice and your handwriting improves. It also forces you to write slower.

Thinner lines - my writing tends to be thin and spidery.

I suspected a decent pen would not necessarily make me write better, just as a better keyboard won't necessarily make one type faster, but I do write a fair bit at work and I've been seeking a better pen for a long time.

And the paper would mostly be the crappy thin paper in the notebooks I use at work.

For the moment I have decided not to get the Massdrop buy (currency conversion, end of an expensive month etc.) but I might look into the $6 disposable fountain pen at OfficeWorks.  If that works out then another drop might present itself at a more opportune moment.

During the meanwhile, I've got some catching up to do in this thread

[Binge]

Do you like a thinner or thicker line rowdy?  That's probably more important than your question of what's best for beginners.

If you do opt to not get some nicer paper, a fine might suit you better though. Some cheaper papers are better than others.

And I agree with Larken on #3. It won't instantly improve your handwriting. Rather, it provides a pleasant and smooth writing experience which encourages me to write more. More writing means more practice and your handwriting improves. It also forces you to write slower.

Thinner lines - my writing tends to be thin and spidery.

I suspected a decent pen would not necessarily make me write better, just as a better keyboard won't necessarily make one type faster, but I do write a fair bit at work and I've been seeking a better pen for a long time.

And the paper would mostly be the crappy thin paper in the notebooks I use at work.

For the moment I have decided not to get the Massdrop buy (currency conversion, end of an expensive month etc.) but I might look into the $6 disposable fountain pen at OfficeWorks.  If that works out then another drop might present itself at a more opportune moment.

During the meanwhile, I've got some catching up to do in this thread

I don't know about that.  My penmanship had improved fundamentally faster with fountain pens than other writing instruments especially when you practice with one pen, and practice often.  After spending a bit of time with one FP, I found that it was hard to write without having a fair bit of extra control.  A good pen is one that writes reliably and produces the kind of line you need.  I have expensive pens that aren't as "good" to my observations as pens which are fractions of the price.

Ask CPT and he'll tell you that some of his favorite pens cost him very little in comparison to some of the more luxurious looking pens which are just damned sparkly.  His tastes are very much toward reliability and minimalistic beauty, and I like swirly junk that feels nice and has odd ways of getting extra line variation.  My pens have had their problems, and I've had to adapt by learning to do at-home modifications.

While it isn't for everyone I can suggest the littlest bit of tuning knowledge makes a world of difference.

[Altis]

I've recently discovered the Pilot Juice pens as I've been looking for the perfect work pen (my fountain pens stay home).

I really like the 0.38mm. Lays down a very consistent, very fine line with no skipping, though it is noticeably less smooth than the 0.5mm. The Coffee Brown and Blue Black are my favorite colours and are a little more distinguished, though it isn't as obvious with the 0.38mm unless you're writing against black lines/print. The black is very deep, which makes the 0.5mm look rather bold even. There is no bleedthrough on even standard paper, but you can see the ghosting from the flipside. The ink does take a short moment to dry, which has been no problem for right-hand writing, but I suspect that 0.5/0.7mm on certain papers may require slowly writing for left-handers.

The spring-loaded clip is something I hadn't considered at all when buying them but now feels like a necessity as I'm constantly on the go (field tech). Clips to my shirt, pockets, notepad, lanyard, laptop, etc... really handy to not have to force it on but instead pinch it open, place it, and release. Capless is also nice for quick easy of access.

I'm going to be trying the 0.28mm Uniball Signo DX, but I suspect that 0.38mm is the sweet spot.

I know this thread is mostly on FP, but it's also on "handwriting" and for that, the Pilot Juice 0.38 is exceptional.

The colours I have so far (and are mostly in the same palette) are: coffee brown, blue black, turquoise green, dark red (which has a bit of blue in it), black, aqua blue, and violet. The colours do appear darker in the 0.5 than the 0.38, and this seems especially true of the lighter colours).

I also tried the 0.7mm for the coffee brown and it's great for diagrams and signatures, making the colour more bold and saturated, but too coarse for handwriting and print, IMO.

Just thought I'd share my experience for anyone looking for a superb daily writer that comes in extra fine points and unique colours that is more practical than a fountain pen. Happy writing!

[CPTBadAss]

Altis, where's my writing sample to back up your wonderful argument?

[Altis]

Altis, where's my writing sample to back up your wonderful argument?

I shall provide one later! I'll try to demonstrate a few of the sizes and colours on some decent paper and regular paper.

[Air tree]

Hallo everyone. I'm going to take the plunge in yet another interest with my first fountain pen. And I was wondering what pen I should look at for a starter?


I heard this one was quite nice for the price: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=twister_B00KU09W6I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Any other suggestions?

I'm not sure On nibs really. I need to be schooled!

[Binge]

Hallo everyone. I'm going to take the plunge in yet another interest with my first fountain pen. And I was wondering what pen I should look at for a starter?


I heard this one was quite nice for the price: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=twister_B00KU09W6I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Any other suggestions?

I'm not sure On nibs really. I need to be schooled!

Nib size is the thickness of the line.  Lots of people like all different sizes.  You just sort of have to be prepared with the more fine nibs that they will be more finicky.  For personal use/modding a broad is the easiest nib to write with out of the box and mod to thinner/custom grinds because it has so much tipping material which can be ground to size.

[tp4tissue]

Hallo everyone. I'm going to take the plunge in yet another interest with my first fountain pen. And I was wondering what pen I should look at for a starter?


I heard this one was quite nice for the price: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=twister_B00KU09W6I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Any other suggestions?

I'm not sure On nibs really. I need to be schooled!

Nib size is the thickness of the line.  Lots of people like all different sizes.  You just sort of have to be prepared with the more fine nibs that they will be more finicky.  For personal use/modding a broad is the easiest nib to write with out of the box and mod to thinner/custom grinds because it has so much tipping material which can be ground to size.

If you finger-write,  get fine or extra-fine.

If you have a developed upper arm technique, you can venture into medium or broad.

[Larken]

I've recently discovered the Pilot Juice pens ......

Sounds like something I would've loved to use during my Pilot Hi-tec 0.4mm using days. How do they compare to the Hi-tec pens, if you've used those too?

Hallo everyone. I'm going to take the plunge in yet another interest with my first fountain pen. And I was wondering what pen I should look at for a starter?


I heard this one was quite nice for the price: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=twister_B00KU09W6I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Any other suggestions?

I'm not sure On nibs really. I need to be schooled!

The Pilot Metro is a good starter pen for its price.

Binge's point about fine nibs being more finicky is a good one, as some fine nibs aren't quite as smooth as the broad ones out of the box. (Pilot nibs, in my personal experience so far, are very smooth even for fines, and for some pens, I'd even say they over-smooth their nibs).

But I'd say go for the fine first, for practical reasons. Broader nibs tend to lay down a thicker line, which generally means they put down a lot more ink on the page. As someone who started into fountain pens with a pilot metro with a medium nib (got it as a gift, which in turn sparked the whole fountain pen thing), while the writing was extremely smooth, the pen was near unusable due to the kind of paper I used, i.e. printer copy page, random notebooks, documents from clients. The broad nib feathered ink all over the place/produced writing that was unreadable (unless writing large letters). Almost turned me off fountain pens altogether.

Although, I have tried medium/broad nibs that was tuned to be extremely dry that works great even on copier paper (which was pretty amazing), but my metro wasn't one of those.

As for modding, it is a another area you could get into but its also a good way to destroy the nib if you don't know what you're doing. Grinding a broad into a fine properly, while not the hardest thing to do, is not exactly easier either (plus you have to be interested in doing such stuff).

Finer nibs are imo a better way to go if you're starting out, and don't intend to get fp friendly papers alongside your purchase. But if you do intend to get some nice quality paper, going with a medium or broad is good too.

[Air tree]

I've recently discovered the Pilot Juice pens ......

Sounds like something I would've loved to use during my Pilot Hi-tec 0.4mm using days. How do they compare to the Hi-tec pens, if you've used those too?

Hallo everyone. I'm going to take the plunge in yet another interest with my first fountain pen. And I was wondering what pen I should look at for a starter?


I heard this one was quite nice for the price: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=twister_B00KU09W6I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Any other suggestions?

I'm not sure On nibs really. I need to be schooled!

The Pilot Metro is a good starter pen for its price.

Binge's point about fine nibs being more finicky is a good one, as some fine nibs aren't quite as smooth as the broad ones out of the box. (Pilot nibs, in my personal experience so far, are very smooth even for fines, and for some pens, I'd even say they over-smooth their nibs).

But I'd say go for the fine first, for practical reasons. Broader nibs tend to lay down a thicker line, which generally means they put down a lot more ink on the page. As someone who started into fountain pens with a pilot metro with a medium nib (got it as a gift, which in turn sparked the whole fountain pen thing), while the writing was extremely smooth, the pen was near unusable due to the kind of paper I used, i.e. printer copy page, random notebooks, documents from clients. The broad nib feathered ink all over the place/produced writing that was unreadable (unless writing large letters). Almost turned me off fountain pens altogether.

Although, I have tried medium/broad nibs that was tuned to be extremely dry that works great even on copier paper (which was pretty amazing), but my metro wasn't one of those.

As for modding, it is a another area you could get into but its also a good way to destroy the nib if you don't know what you're doing. Grinding a broad into a fine properly, while not the hardest thing to do, is not exactly easier either (plus you have to be interested in doing such stuff).

Finer nibs are imo a better way to go if you're starting out, and don't intend to get fp friendly papers alongside your purchase. But if you do intend to get some nice quality paper, going with a medium or broad is good too.

I got my nice paper and pen down. Now, what about Ink? What's a good nice black or maybe a nice red ink? (Red for some flair )

[CPTBadAss]

I got my nice paper and pen down. Now, what about Ink? What's a good nice black or maybe a nice red ink? (Red for some flair )

I don't like red ink so I won't suggest anything but I will say in general, Diamine and J Herbin have very affordable inks which are very well behaved. Diamine is my favorite ink brand.

[Binge]

I got my nice paper and pen down. Now, what about Ink? What's a good nice black or maybe a nice red ink? (Red for some flair )

I don't like red ink so I won't suggest anything but I will say in general, Diamine and J Herbin have very affordable inks which are very well behaved. Diamine is my favorite ink brand.

+1 for Diamine love.  I also appreciate Levenger ink due to its lubricated properties.  On that note noodler's black ink is great to use, and I've also had a good run with Sailor Jentle inks.  There's a french brand I imported, tried, liked, and it's inexpensive if you buy a bunch of colors in one go (link below).

http://www.artisanpastellier.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_35_36&osCsid=8710ebacad8f3a01a5e14bf81a6c3201

I would say the colors aren't as rich, but they are unique as many of them hit pastel tones.

I've not had great experiences with reds, but then again I haven't tried the Levenger reds... which I believe would probably be the exception to all of my bad experiences.

[wakko]

The lost art of writing. I had to learn cursive in school and it stuck with me. I've had Sheafer, Parker, Pilot and a few other pens over the years. My daily is a cheapo Pilot.

[Touch_It]

Do I win a prize?

[wakko]

Hallo everyone. I'm going to take the plunge in yet another interest with my first fountain pen. And I was wondering what pen I should look at for a starter?


I heard this one was quite nice for the price: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=twister_B00KU09W6I?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Any other suggestions?

I'm not sure On nibs really. I need to be schooled!

That's a really good pen for the money.

[clacktalk]

i'm gonna start playing with a flex nib soon!