Jobs in the music industry for non-musicians

[hwood34]

Does anyone on here have experience doing work not directly involved in the making of music (for us less musically inclined). What's your pay like, hours, enjoyment etc.? I'd love to just get a very general idea of some other people's experiences. As long as the pay is decent, being involved with music 24/7 would be pretty amazing for me and I want to get an idea of places to start if you have any

[tp4tissue]

/Groupie ok ?

hahaha.. JK...

[OfTheWild]

Not musically inclined meaning you just dont know how to play an instrument or sing? You could always DJ or be an audio technician, sound board operator, editor. Or do you mean like just being a band manager, music reporter, roadie, guitar tech/luthier, etc?

[PollandAkuma]

Depends on what kind of music really. I think the classical world largely differs from the popular music world.

[Spopepro]

And live performance is a different world from recorded. "Music industry" is huge, and I'm afraid that if your only starting point is "I like music" then you're not going to be very successful.

My wife's degrees are in technical theatre, but she does a large number of musical events as the Assistant Production Manager and Master Electrician of a busy venue. It's a good job, and the people who come through have been loveley. They have audio staff for both front of house and the monitor mix, technicians to move stuff around, electricians to hang and focus lights, video and audio recording techs since they make streams and vods available for a number of events, and house management and ushers. So there's definitely work to be had in a variety of places for live performance. Here's the downsides: the hours are irregular, and there is definitely an off season where hours are short. You don't need to be a musician to be an audio tech but you need good ears--the previous venue manager was not a musician but could listen for a couple of seconds, and immediately bump a couple of bands on the EQ and it was right on the money. Their current venue boss can do the same, but is a musician. For good jobs you need to hustle connections, have a great education, and often need both. My wife has a terminal degree. Our friend who is maybe working the highest profile gigs (he's now the lighting designer/manager for Tiesto) has a fancy degree, then worked a variety of industry jobs *not* in music or theatre, then gigged hard and finally got picked up for an awesome steady job. You can't really be sick or choose your vacations. Performances are scheduled and you often don't have a sub available. Repeated sick calls, being late, double booking yourself (common problem for performance techs who are often on hire lists at many venues to keep the income flowing) all will make you fall off call lists and not be able to find work. You will often be working Wednesday through Sunday nights with Monday often being dark, which means that you will never get to go out with your non-industry friends.

So yeah, there are jobs, they can be fun, there are significant sacrifices to doing them, and you need to know what area you're really into beyond liking music. As one last thing: I am a musician, and have a music degree, and I don't work in any capacity around music. The pay is too low, sacrifices too high, and the lack of security while hustling unacceptable to me. I play in a volunteer orchestra and have funds to support all my music related interests from my non-industry job.

[tp4tissue]

@ Spopepro

Could you elaborate on the Hustling a bit more.. that is very interesting stuff.

[Photekq]

Come to the UK and become a drug dealer. It's probably the most viable option for you.

[tp4tissue]

Come to the UK and become a drug dealer. It's probably the most viable option for you.

Why UK ?  you got them cameras everywhere..

Surely USA is the best place..   top notch currency..  large heroin epidemic..

[Photekq]

Why UK ?  you got them cameras everywhere..

The musicians here go through a lot of ketamine.

[jb1830]

Like some have mentioned here LIVE music is a big part of the industry.You can do sound, lighting, security, photo, etc. You could either work for a venue(s) or be part of a band's crew. It's really not glamorous and not always the most stable industry (unless you're really good) but the people I know that work in it love it.

You can always look for work at some of the larger labels. It's less direct than working shows but you get to meet some artists and there are other perks. You can work either a production, creative or administrative position. However you will find that most of those jobs are split between NYC and LA. Most larger metro areas will have labels that you can find work at but the pay is not always good and you're basically expected to do anything and everything. These though can be good learning experiences when trying to make the move to the larger labels.

Just remember that it is a very competitive industry and you have to work hard, otherwise companies just find the next person willing to do the work.

[Spopepro]

@ Spopepro

Could you elaborate on the Hustling a bit more.. that is very interesting stuff.

Venues don't hire more than one or two full time staff. Everyone else is hired on call. So you have to get yourself on the list. But just getting on the list may not get you called. So you need to somehow make it up high on the list. This is usually accomplished by knowing people who know people or being persistent without being annoying. It's tough. Now you have to do this x20 because no single house will give you enough hours to live on, so you need to be on all the lists. Once you start getting called you have to be good enough (but largely on time, sober, safe, and reasonably efficient is good enough) to keep getting calls.

Once you start to get enough work to pay the bills you start running into scheduling issues. Some venues schedule well 4 weeks out. Some are calling two days before. Not all venues pay the same. So do you have the principles to turn down a better paying job because you're already booked? Do you gamble and not accept a job because a better one will likely come? Even if you have a great gig this can be an issue. My friend who works for Tiesto gets booked 60 days out, and they say it's ok if he has conflicts on shorter notice, but how many times can you have a conflict before they move on? About a month ago they called him with a sudden new show, Dubai, with only two weeks warning. Instead of turning it down, he found coverage for the other gig he was now cancelling on. Point is: it's *always* tricky even when you hit what would be called the big time.

My wife's former boss was a road dog before settling into venue management. He might be the best monitor mix guy on the planet. He was the longest tenured monitor mix guy for guns and roses, even having been fired twice. The first time they fired his replacement less than 24 hours after he got fired so they had to rehire him. The last time Axl overheard him call the band "4 men and a baby"... I don't think I had a point to that story.

[tp4tissue]

@ Spopepro

Could you elaborate on the Hustling a bit more.. that is very interesting stuff.

Venues don't hire more than one or two full time staff. Everyone else is hired on call. So you have to get yourself on the list. But just getting on the list may not get you called. So you need to somehow make it up high on the list. This is usually accomplished by knowing people who know people or being persistent without being annoying. It's tough. Now you have to do this x20 because no single house will give you enough hours to live on, so you need to be on all the lists. Once you start getting called you have to be good enough (but largely on time, sober, safe, and reasonably efficient is good enough) to keep getting calls.

Once you start to get enough work to pay the bills you start running into scheduling issues. Some venues schedule well 4 weeks out. Some are calling two days before. Not all venues pay the same. So do you have the principles to turn down a better paying job because you're already booked? Do you gamble and not accept a job because a better one will likely come? Even if you have a great gig this can be an issue. My friend who works for Tiesto gets booked 60 days out, and they say it's ok if he has conflicts on shorter notice, but how many times can you have a conflict before they move on? About a month ago they called him with a sudden new show, Dubai, with only two weeks warning. Instead of turning it down, he found coverage for the other gig he was now cancelling on. Point is: it's *always* tricky even when you hit what would be called the big time.

My wife's former boss was a road dog before settling into venue management. He might be the best monitor mix guy on the planet. He was the longest tenured monitor mix guy for guns and roses, even having been fired twice. The first time they fired his replacement less than 24 hours after he got fired so they had to rehire him. The last time Axl overheard him call the band "4 men and a baby"... I don't think I had a point to that story.

Hrrrrmmm...... Is there not a website in the industry that keeps track of performance bookings  like that ?

Seems like someone would've developed such an app by now..

[Spopepro]

@ Spopepro

Could you elaborate on the Hustling a bit more.. that is very interesting stuff.

Venues don't hire more than one or two full time staff. Everyone else is hired on call. So you have to get yourself on the list. But just getting on the list may not get you called. So you need to somehow make it up high on the list. This is usually accomplished by knowing people who know people or being persistent without being annoying. It's tough. Now you have to do this x20 because no single house will give you enough hours to live on, so you need to be on all the lists. Once you start getting called you have to be good enough (but largely on time, sober, safe, and reasonably efficient is good enough) to keep getting calls.

Once you start to get enough work to pay the bills you start running into scheduling issues. Some venues schedule well 4 weeks out. Some are calling two days before. Not all venues pay the same. So do you have the principles to turn down a better paying job because you're already booked? Do you gamble and not accept a job because a better one will likely come? Even if you have a great gig this can be an issue. My friend who works for Tiesto gets booked 60 days out, and they say it's ok if he has conflicts on shorter notice, but how many times can you have a conflict before they move on? About a month ago they called him with a sudden new show, Dubai, with only two weeks warning. Instead of turning it down, he found coverage for the other gig he was now cancelling on. Point is: it's *always* tricky even when you hit what would be called the big time.

My wife's former boss was a road dog before settling into venue management. He might be the best monitor mix guy on the planet. He was the longest tenured monitor mix guy for guns and roses, even having been fired twice. The first time they fired his replacement less than 24 hours after he got fired so they had to rehire him. The last time Axl overheard him call the band "4 men and a baby"... I don't think I had a point to that story.

Hrrrrmmm...... Is there not a website in the industry that keeps track of performance bookings  like that ?

Seems like someone would've developed such an app by now..

Some have tried, but fragmentation still persists (no, use *my* app, it's better) and there's the issue that no one wants to pay for it.

[tp4tissue]

Hrrrrmmm...... Is there not a website in the industry that keeps track of performance bookings  like that ?

Seems like someone would've developed such an app by now..

Some have tried, but fragmentation still persists (no, use *my* app, it's better) and there's the issue that no one wants to pay for it.

Time to call facebook ..


//Headline...  Facebook pimp musicians with new App !!

[pixelpusher]

And live performance is a different world from recorded. "Music industry" is huge, and I'm afraid that if your only starting point is "I like music" then you're not going to be very successful.

My wife's degrees are in technical theatre, but she does a large number of musical events as the Assistant Production Manager and Master Electrician of a busy venue. It's a good job, and the people who come through have been loveley. They have audio staff for both front of house and the monitor mix, technicians to move stuff around, electricians to hang and focus lights, video and audio recording techs since they make streams and vods available for a number of events, and house management and ushers. So there's definitely work to be had in a variety of places for live performance. Here's the downsides: the hours are irregular, and there is definitely an off season where hours are short. You don't need to be a musician to be an audio tech but you need good ears--the previous venue manager was not a musician but could listen for a couple of seconds, and immediately bump a couple of bands on the EQ and it was right on the money. Their current venue boss can do the same, but is a musician. For good jobs you need to hustle connections, have a great education, and often need both. My wife has a terminal degree. Our friend who is maybe working the highest profile gigs (he's now the lighting designer/manager for Tiesto) has a fancy degree, then worked a variety of industry jobs *not* in music or theatre, then gigged hard and finally got picked up for an awesome steady job. You can't really be sick or choose your vacations. Performances are scheduled and you often don't have a sub available. Repeated sick calls, being late, double booking yourself (common problem for performance techs who are often on hire lists at many venues to keep the income flowing) all will make you fall off call lists and not be able to find work. You will often be working Wednesday through Sunday nights with Monday often being dark, which means that you will never get to go out with your non-industry friends.

So yeah, there are jobs, they can be fun, there are significant sacrifices to doing them, and you need to know what area you're really into beyond liking music. As one last thing: I am a musician, and have a music degree, and I don't work in any capacity around music. The pay is too low, sacrifices too high, and the lack of security while hustling unacceptable to me. I play in a volunteer orchestra and have funds to support all my music related interests from my non-industry job.

 Nice to see a fellow musician. Master of music performance here.  Worked for 2 years out of graduate school, now I build computer education for FedEx.

Waiting for the great coronal mass ejection to make music performance important again

[ghostjuggernaut]

My uncle works in set design, in Nashville.  Basically they do all the ground up fabbing, as well as the electrical work and electronics.  He had asked if I wanted to work with him, iirc the pay started around 65k.  He mainly deals with country music, but has done work for other genres as well.  His company did one of the Wrestlemania sets about 10 years ago.  He gets to routinely meet musicians, and gets free beer from Martina McBride weekly.

Not sure if this is exactly something like you are looking for though.

[tp4tissue]

My uncle works in set design, in Nashville.  Basically they do all the ground up fabbing, as well as the electrical work and electronics.  He had asked if I wanted to work with him, iirc the pay started around 65k.  He mainly deals with country music, but has done work for other genres as well.  His company did one of the Wrestlemania sets about 10 years ago.  He gets to routinely meet musicians, and gets free beer from Martina McBride weekly.

Not sure if this is exactly something like you are looking for though.

Who wouldn't be interested in Martina McBride + Beer..


But also... why is she just giving out beer ?... is that an industry thing.

[PollandAkuma]

And live performance is a different world from recorded. "Music industry" is huge, and I'm afraid that if your only starting point is "I like music" then you're not going to be very successful.

My wife's degrees are in technical theatre, but she does a large number of musical events as the Assistant Production Manager and Master Electrician of a busy venue. It's a good job, and the people who come through have been loveley. They have audio staff for both front of house and the monitor mix, technicians to move stuff around, electricians to hang and focus lights, video and audio recording techs since they make streams and vods available for a number of events, and house management and ushers. So there's definitely work to be had in a variety of places for live performance. Here's the downsides: the hours are irregular, and there is definitely an off season where hours are short. You don't need to be a musician to be an audio tech but you need good ears--the previous venue manager was not a musician but could listen for a couple of seconds, and immediately bump a couple of bands on the EQ and it was right on the money. Their current venue boss can do the same, but is a musician. For good jobs you need to hustle connections, have a great education, and often need both. My wife has a terminal degree. Our friend who is maybe working the highest profile gigs (he's now the lighting designer/manager for Tiesto) has a fancy degree, then worked a variety of industry jobs *not* in music or theatre, then gigged hard and finally got picked up for an awesome steady job. You can't really be sick or choose your vacations. Performances are scheduled and you often don't have a sub available. Repeated sick calls, being late, double booking yourself (common problem for performance techs who are often on hire lists at many venues to keep the income flowing) all will make you fall off call lists and not be able to find work. You will often be working Wednesday through Sunday nights with Monday often being dark, which means that you will never get to go out with your non-industry friends.

So yeah, there are jobs, they can be fun, there are significant sacrifices to doing them, and you need to know what area you're really into beyond liking music. As one last thing: I am a musician, and have a music degree, and I don't work in any capacity around music. The pay is too low, sacrifices too high, and the lack of security while hustling unacceptable to me. I play in a volunteer orchestra and have funds to support all my music related interests from my non-industry job.

 Nice to see a fellow musician. Master of music performance here.  Worked for 2 years out of graduate school, now I build computer education for FedEx.

Waiting for the great coronal mass ejection to make music performance important again

fellow musician here, the cupid kind

[tp4tissue]

 Nice to see a fellow musician. Master of music performance here.  Worked for 2 years out of graduate school, now I build computer education for FedEx.

Waiting for the great coronal mass ejection to make music performance important again

My computer is grounded though...   you mean destroy the entire electrical grid?

Pretty sure people would be killing each other over cereal instead of listening to music. hahahaha

[ghostjuggernaut]

My uncle works in set design, in Nashville.  Basically they do all the ground up fabbing, as well as the electrical work and electronics.  He had asked if I wanted to work with him, iirc the pay started around 65k.  He mainly deals with country music, but has done work for other genres as well.  His company did one of the Wrestlemania sets about 10 years ago.  He gets to routinely meet musicians, and gets free beer from Martina McBride weekly.

Not sure if this is exactly something like you are looking for though.

Who wouldn't be interested in Martina McBride + Beer..


But also... why is she just giving out beer ?... is that an industry thing.

When they get back in off the road they give tour bus beer to him. Guess as long as he takes it they keep giving it to him.

[fohat.digs]

One of my best friends is a promoter. It took quite a few years, a couple of failures, and a lot of risks to get there.

He and several other of my friends started as announcers at a public (university) radio station in the 1970s.

[hwood34]

Not musically inclined meaning you just dont know how to play an instrument or sing? You could always DJ or be an audio technician, sound board operator, editor. Or do you mean like just being a band manager, music reporter, roadie, guitar tech/luthier, etc?

yea, like not much real talent with instruments.

And live performance is a different world from recorded. "Music industry" is huge, and I'm afraid that if your only starting point is "I like music" then you're not going to be very successful.

My wife's degrees are in technical theatre, but she does a large number of musical events as the Assistant Production Manager and Master Electrician of a busy venue. It's a good job, and the people who come through have been loveley. They have audio staff for both front of house and the monitor mix, technicians to move stuff around, electricians to hang and focus lights, video and audio recording techs since they make streams and vods available for a number of events, and house management and ushers. So there's definitely work to be had in a variety of places for live performance. Here's the downsides: the hours are irregular, and there is definitely an off season where hours are short. You don't need to be a musician to be an audio tech but you need good ears--the previous venue manager was not a musician but could listen for a couple of seconds, and immediately bump a couple of bands on the EQ and it was right on the money. Their current venue boss can do the same, but is a musician. For good jobs you need to hustle connections, have a great education, and often need both. My wife has a terminal degree. Our friend who is maybe working the highest profile gigs (he's now the lighting designer/manager for Tiesto) has a fancy degree, then worked a variety of industry jobs *not* in music or theatre, then gigged hard and finally got picked up for an awesome steady job. You can't really be sick or choose your vacations. Performances are scheduled and you often don't have a sub available. Repeated sick calls, being late, double booking yourself (common problem for performance techs who are often on hire lists at many venues to keep the income flowing) all will make you fall off call lists and not be able to find work. You will often be working Wednesday through Sunday nights with Monday often being dark, which means that you will never get to go out with your non-industry friends.

So yeah, there are jobs, they can be fun, there are significant sacrifices to doing them, and you need to know what area you're really into beyond liking music. As one last thing: I am a musician, and have a music degree, and I don't work in any capacity around music. The pay is too low, sacrifices too high, and the lack of security while hustling unacceptable to me. I play in a volunteer orchestra and have funds to support all my music related interests from my non-industry job.

Yeah, I guess I was about as vague as possible lol. But thanks for the awesome reply. I was thinking something more along the lines of directly working with the music like an audio tech or something in sound design. Probably also has the advantages of having much more standard hours and regular, salaried work. That's not to say I would rule out any sort of work with live performances, I just feel like I lack the sort of assertiveness you'd need to really go out and regularly find and "hustle" for work lol.