Ideas for an Ergonomic Laptop

[Altis]

I've been thinking a lot lately about the dismal ergonomics of laptops and how more and more companies are providing their employees with laptops in place of desktops. I see people everywhere hunched over laptops at desks with poor posture and hand/wrist ergonomics.

I just wanted to share some thoughts on ideas that could make laptops a lot more comfortable to use, especially when you have them at a desk or table.

1. Feet.
Really simple: since keyboards tend to be at an angle, and keyboards have feet to control this angle, it only makes sense that a laptop would have feet too as the keyboard is built into the laptop. This would give a better typing angle as well as provide better air flow.

2. Trackpad.
One thing I've noticed is that trackpads, while great, are placed either center or left of center on the laptops to accomodate left and right-hand users. The issue is that this compromise isn't great for either as you have either an awkward arm position or a bent wrist.

What if the trackpad was off to the side of the laptop. Imagine the Apple standalone trackpad type of thing being retractable into the side of the laptop. With a typical latching press-release, it slides out to the side. You could even have a swing-down foot on the end of it, which could be twisted to extend/retract for just the right support. It would also be at the right angle thanks to the feet from [1].

What about left-handers? What if the whole trackpad assembly is in a special mount. The laptop would accept this assembly in either the left or right side, with the opposite side being the hard drive storage. So you have two of these assemblies... one that holds a hard drive, the other that holds the trackpad. You can put either into either side, likely screwed in as you don't often change it.

3. Screen.
Having to look down at the screen is terrible for you, as we all know. What I think would be great is if the screen were on rails each side, connected to a pivot point in the middle of the sides of the screen. So you open the laptop, pull the screen up about 5-6 inches, and then angle it just right.

Another advantage of this is being able to bring the screen to the right distance from your face. You can pull it towards you and keep the angle just right. This also allows the keyboard (base of the laptop) to be pushed a little further back providing better hand/wrist/arm ergonomics without making the screen too far.


Maybe some day I'll do some mockups to illustrate these ideas. What do you think? I don't think it'll catch on in the ultrabook super-mobile laptops, but I can see it being healthy for those tend to set up camp with their laptops.

[jacobolus]

Personally I think the only way to get a really “ergonomic” result is to have the display and keyboard as separate components (the computer part could be in either one or neither). The main difficulty is figuring out how to prop up the display somewhere when you’re e.g. sitting on the couch. (Couch typing is the one thing laptops do much better than desktops or tablets.)

1. Feet. Really simple: since keyboards tend to be at an angle, and keyboards have feet to control this angle, it only makes sense that a laptop would have feet too as the keyboard is built into the laptop. This would give a better typing angle as well as provide better air flow.

Depends where the laptop is placed. Proper angle really depends on how you’re sitting, whether you’re using your lap or a desk, how high the desk is relative to your torso. Ideally you want an angle adjustable from about -5° to 25°, but I don’t think just feet are really going to cut it. More importantly, you want to split the two halves of the keyboard and tent them. This is going to take some tricky mechanical design, and a rearrangement of the laptop internals. As I said above, probably better to just make keyboard and display separate.

2. Trackpad. One thing I've noticed is that trackpads, while great, are placed [...] What if the trackpad was off to the side of the laptop.

Off to the side sucks. Directly below the keyboard isn’t great, but it’s slightly less bad. Better would be to put the trackpad in the middle between split keyboard halves.

3. Screen. What I think would be great is if the screen were on rails each side, connected to a pivot point in the middle of the sides of the screen. So you open the laptop, pull the screen up about 5-6 inches, and then angle it just right.

Sounds like really difficult mechanical design. Probably ends up being bulky and not working too well. But try to build a prototype, I’d love to see what you can come up with.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Unfortunately, laptops are themselves a compromise and sacrifice various things for mobility. I think the part that would benefit the most people would be getting the screen at the correct height. I wonder how compact and light you could make the rail system you're proposing.

[smknjoe]

Most laptops in the 90's and early 2000's had feet. 2 Sony Vaios I used to own had them. Apple did too if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure why they stopped installing them. Maybe people had a tendency to leave them extended and broke them?

As far as the angle of the screen goes, I don't see much of an issue with current laptops. It's most "ergonomic" to have the top edge of the monitor at, or slightly below, eye level. This is easily achieved on most desks.

Trackpad? Again, they made some in the 80's and 90's that were off to the side and even had built-in trackballs. I don't really mind the position of trackpads as they are now.

Like SOSOS said, laptops are a compromise in general and that's been the case as long as they have been in use. However, now that they are just as powerful as most desktops and they are becoming the "standard" in many businesses I can see the case for better ergonomics. In those cases, most businesses will also provide docking stations. It's what I've done for about 5 years now since ditching a full size PC. I get the best of both worlds. At the office I have 2 x 27 inch monitors, a keyboard of my choice (SSK right now), and my choice of mouse (Microsoft Trackball). When I travel I can easily just "un-dock" it and off I go.

[Melvang]

If ergonomics are a concern with mobile usage, Tablet/convertible type with bluetoothed keyboard of choice?

[william]

I agree with Melvang and Jacobolus. Ergonomic laptops are something that will never get traction, just like ergonomic keyboards never have. You either get a separate keyboard or you heavily modify your own. Track pad in middle of a split keyboard would be my choice as well.

[Altis]

I'm curious why several of you like the trackpad in the center? It seems to me that it's just a compromise for left- and right-handed users.

I don't use my mouse in the center, I use it off to the right as that's where my right hand naturally falls.

I was thinking more about this today while I was at the office (which I'm not typically at). There's a guy who comes in fairly often who is not from our branch. He came in and was sitting next to a pillar working on his laptop. From the side, I could see him hunched over his laptop... arched back, curved neck, and head tilted down.

Right above his head (on the pillar behind him) was a fairly large print that showed the side profile of an X-ray of someone hunched over a laptop, highlighting the curvature of the spine and placement of the shoulders. The caption for this photo was the message: "Is sitting the new smoking?"

Perhaps a tad drastic, but it made me wonder what health issues we'll eventually suffer as a result of using devices for hours every day that have no ergonomic consideration.

[Findecanor]

There has been research that have found that having the pointing device in the centre to be the more ergonomic, but I agree with having it on the right side of the keyboard to be convenient.
Also, having as little or even forward inclination of the keyboard would also be more ergonomic.

I think that ideally, a laptop should have a vertical docking station which I could place it in when I use it at a desk with a external wired keyboard, mouse and large monitor. Sadly, there are only few laptop models that have docking stations and I don't think I have seen any laptop that could be switched on while the screen is closed.
Alternatively, have a tablet device such as Microsoft Surface that when docked would lie down right of my keyboard and work as a combined trackpad/graphics tablet with special touch buttons. When I take the tablet with me, I would use a Goldtouch Go!² or other split ergonomic keyboard.

[brimborion]

Large laptops that have a number pad are particularly annoying, because it means you are shifted off center to type.

[smknjoe]

There has been research that have found that having the pointing device in the centre to be the more ergonomic, but I agree with having it on the right side of the keyboard to be convenient.
Also, having as little or even forward inclination of the keyboard would also be more ergonomic.

I think that ideally, a laptop should have a vertical docking station which I could place it in when I use it at a desk with a external wired keyboard, mouse and large monitor. Sadly, there are only few laptop models that have docking stations and I don't think I have seen any laptop that could be switched on while the screen is closed.
Alternatively, have a tablet device such as Microsoft Surface that when docked would lie down right of my keyboard and work as a combined trackpad/graphics tablet with special touch buttons. When I take the tablet with me, I would use a Goldtouch Go!� or other split ergonomic keyboard.

You can use laptops without docking interfaces. I don't think I've seen a laptop that you CAN"T set to stay on when closed. It's just a software setting.

[Oobly]

In terms of ergonomics, the biggest offender on laptops is the screen height. The keyboard angle is actually better in many cases than a lot of people's desk setups.

I like the idea of a pair of extendable "pillars" that are hinged at the bottom on the normal screen mount positions. At the top end you have hinges mounted to the middle of each side of the display. So you can adjust the view distance, height and angle of the display. Should be possible to make them sturdy enough for a lightweight LED backlit panel.

For keyboard / mouse, the standard ones are acceptable (I think the IBM / Lenovo trackpoint and keyboards are actually rather good). I don't think there's a market just yet for a properly ergonomic keyboard / trackpad layout laptop, but give it a few more years and a few more really ergonomic desktop keyboards and maybe. I mean the market for ergonomic DESKTOP boards isn't big enough for most major companies to bother yet, so a laptop is not likely. I feel it's coming, though, but it'll be a slow revolution and should start with desktop boards or possibly ergo boards for tablets / phablets.

[davkol]

Large laptops that have a number pad are particularly annoying, because it means you are shifted off center to type.

wat.

The ordinary keyboard is staggered, thus the typist *should* be shifted a bit to the right (or the keyboard to the left).

[Findecanor]

I don't think I've seen a laptop that you CAN"T set to stay on when closed. It's just a software setting.

Sure, but most laptops have the power button inside the lid so you would still have to open them to switch them on.

[davkol]

ACPI?

[jacobolus]

Large laptops that have a number pad are particularly annoying, because it means you are shifted off center to type.

wat.

He’s complaining about having the main typing section of the keyboard uncentered on the laptop.

Uncentered typing:


(Almost) centered typing:

[sypl]

Ergonomic keyboards on laptops just aren't going to happen, ever. As someone mentioned, ergonomic keyboards are too niche, and what you need for 'ergonomic', things like split keyboards, tenting, high travel keys, are just not feasible. Why do you use a laptop? Because it's small, portable and light. That eliminates centimetre high keys. Limited space means you can't really fit in a split keyboard. And tenting? Can you imagine the mechanical machinery you'd have to put in to the chassis to make something like that possible? Which of course would make the whole thing more fragile, and heavier. If someone built this keyboard it'd probably weigh eight pounds and even you wouldn't want it. You're better off using an ipad as your comp and attaching your favourite keyboard, because this will never come in an all-in-one package.

[sypl]

BTW, I think the center is the right place to place the trackpad. I try not to use the mouse, but if I have to it's a simple wrist twist away. Putting it further to the left or right would mean I'd have to move down and across, which is not dissimilar to havinga separate mouse. For similar reasons people should reassign their arrow cluster to live somewhere within alphanumeric keys with a modifier. They're too commonly used to live off the 60% space.

[davkol]

Large laptops that have a number pad are particularly annoying, because it means you are shifted off center to type.

wat.

The ordinary keyboard is staggered, thus the typist *should* be shifted a bit to the right (or the keyboard to the left).

He’s complaining about having the main typing section of the keyboard uncentered on the laptop.

I get that, but I don't understand why it's supposed to be a problem. The keyboard is asymmetrically staggered, thus it shouldn't be straight and centred.

[Altis]

There has been research that have found that having the pointing device in the centre to be the more ergonomic, but I agree with having it on the right side of the keyboard to be convenient.
Also, having as little or even forward inclination of the keyboard would also be more ergonomic.

Wouldn't the angle of the keyboard depend on the relative height of your elbows vs the keyboard? If you're sitting low or at a high desk, your forearm will be angled upwards so your keyboard should be angled to match (so that your wrists are pretty well flat and straight). If you're sitting high and the desk is low, you might want the keyboard angled downwards (although this would require front feet on the laptop as well). I don't think I ever suggested having the keyboard split, as it wouldn't be practical at all. Only the angle dealt with.

As for the trackpad/pointing device in the center, I'd like to see this research. It seems to me that the center does not work as well as off to the side. You use the pointing device with one hand/arm, so wouldn't you want the device to be where your hand would naturally fall.

When using a center trackpad, either your wrist is bent (which can't be good), or you leave it straight but your hand isn't at the right angle for the trackpad. So moving your finger forward and back doesn't correspond to up and down on the screen but rather a diagonal. Having the device on the right (or left for left-handers) would address all these points.

It's no less awkward to use a mouse centered with the screen. It feels much better when the mouse is off to the side.

[ElectronicFur]

Personally I think the only way to get a really “ergonomic” result is to have the display and keyboard as separate components (the computer part could be in either one or neither).

I agree, and have always wanted to have something like that. Now with the latest Windows Tablet PCs with detachable keyboards it's a reality.

Just ordered a Surface Pro 3. It has a stand built in to prop it at required angle. Teamed up with Ergodox for ergonomics. May need to add some sort of portable laptop stand to raise the height of the screen when not at home.

[jacobolus]

When I’m typing on a laptop, typically, my right arm comes in from the side at a ~15–30° angle, depending on sitting position. Moving my index finger from about the J key to the trackpad (which is directly in front of the spacebar) takes rotating my arm by maybe 5–10° plus pulling my elbow 2 inches back. It’s a tiny bit closer/easier than reaching over to the right side of a 60% keyboard for a regular mouse, and much much closer than reaching to the right side of a full size keyboard.

It would be still better if my two hands on the keyboard were split, and the trackpad was in the middle:

Current vs. my preference:

[brimborion]

Large laptops that have a number pad are particularly annoying, because it means you are shifted off center to type.

wat.

The ordinary keyboard is staggered, thus the typist *should* be shifted a bit to the right (or the keyboard to the left).

He’s complaining about having the main typing section of the keyboard uncentered on the laptop.

I get that, but I don't understand why it's supposed to be a problem. The keyboard is asymmetrically staggered, thus it shouldn't be straight and centred.

I don't understand why a staggered keyboard would make you change your position at all (but I am not a home-row typist), but certainly don't understand why it would make you offset your self the full distance of a numpad.

If you are centered on the keyboard, and centered on the screen, you do not need to turn your neck at all, and I think this is generally accepted to be ergonomically better.

[davkol]

but I am not a home-row typist

Here we go.

[jacobolus]

I get that, but I don't understand why it's supposed to be a problem. The keyboard is asymmetrically staggered, thus it shouldn't be straight and centred.

It’s a problem because (a) if you try to put a laptop on your lap, and then align it so the typing section is centered with your torso, the laptop is now way off to the side and unstable, likely to fall on the floor, and (b) whether the laptop is on your lap or on a desk, when you center the typing section of the keyboard the screen is not centered in your field of view, so you have to turn your head and the screen isn’t perpendicular to your gaze.

I also think laptops with a numpad and a non-centered main section are stupid stupid stupid.

[davkol]

If it has a numpad, not a problem at all. Left hand is kept straight, right hand at an angle (or straight, if it's on arrows/numpad).

[Melvang]

I get that, but I don't understand why it's supposed to be a problem. The keyboard is asymmetrically staggered, thus it shouldn't be straight and centred.

It’s a problem because (a) if you try to put a laptop on your lap, and then align it so the typing section is centered with your torso, the laptop is now way off to the side and unstable, likely to fall on the floor, and (b) whether the laptop is on your lap or on a desk, when you center the typing section of the keyboard the screen is not centered in your field of view, so you have to turn your head and the screen isn’t perpendicular to your gaze.

I also think laptops with a numpad and a non-centered main section are stupid stupid stupid.

I wouldn't exactly call an inch and a half "way off to the side".  Noticeble yes, but you if you spread your legs apart a touch, you can slide it that far over and not be unstable.  Our laptop has a number pad and I type with the alphanumeric block centered and it doesn't feel unstable at all.  The only time it feels that way is if I have my feet crossed on the coffee table while sitting on the couch.

[Findecanor]

Just throwing these in, to see if any will stick 

A Silicon Graphics O2 laptop, made by engineers for fun:


Samsung laptop:


Abkey prototype:

[jacobolus]

Listen, you guys can buy whatever laptop you want, I won’t begrudge you your numpad fetishes.

Personally, it would drive me crazy. I’ve used enormous laptops with included numpads before, and hated it. I think they’re terrible, and would never be satisfied using one for long stretches of time. (I also think any laptop bigger than about 13" is way too big. So YMMV.)

[brimborion]

but I am not a home-row typist

Here we go.

We're not going anywhere, or at least not there.

[tp4tissue]

I wish they made that laptop from robocop 3..

[againer]

The Silicon Graphics Laptop looks reall nice does it have mechanical switches ?

Nowadays the only Laptop with mechanical Switche( what is more ergonomic than a standard laptop keyboard) is this pice of Hardware

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/msi-switches-things-gt80-titan-worlds-first-gaming-laptop-mechanical-keyboard/ 

But fortunately you can just buy a 60% Keyboard and use it with any laptop 

[smknjoe]

Listen, you guys can buy whatever laptop you want, I won�t begrudge you your numpad fetishes.

Personally, it would drive me crazy. I�ve used enormous laptops with included numpads before, and hated it. I think they�re terrible, and would never be satisfied using one for long stretches of time. (I also think any laptop bigger than about 13" is way too big. So YMMV.)

I think numpads are weird period. I also don't like to carry anything larger than 13". Unfortunately, I don't know of any that size that are powerful enough for me. So, I have one 15" (actually as big as a 17") that is my main desktop replacement and then a 2lb 13" that I carry around for everything else.