Author Topic: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...  (Read 12906 times)

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Offline BlackWidowMan777

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'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 03:43:37 »
Hi everyone,

I am trying to decide on my next keyboard which will be a backlit tenkeyless with cherry mx blues.

I am prepared to wait until the Deck Francium, Max Keyboard Blackbird and Ducky Shine 3 TKL are all available in Australia (the Ducky just went on pre-order today). So, any suggestions, especially from people who own a Shine or Francium or both (like BucklingSpring), would be much appreciated.

I particularly like the tenkeyless form factor as it is easier to find the arrow keys than both full-size and 60% boards. I have a CM Storm TK (browns w/ o-rings) and Realforce 55g, and between these two layouts much prefer the traditional tenkeyless layout of the Realforce.

The other factors besides being backlit and tenkeyless that are important to me are typing feel, and overall build quality and reliability. Aesthetics (such as font and shape) and price are of somewhat lesser importance to me.

Thanks guys.

edit: I re-read BucklingSpring's post on Hassium and Francium and looks like I mistakenly read it that he has both the Shine and Francium.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 December 2013, 00:17:45 by BlackWidowMan777 »

Offline rowdy

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 03:59:10 »
LOL I check the PCCG site every day, and I miss this?!?

Anyway, I'd vote Ducky Shine.  I've got 2 Shine 1 and both are great.

Shine has standard size keycaps, and reasonable legends.

PS. PCCG still isn't listing the yellow one :p
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 04:24:02 »
SHINE.

deck font is just madness..

I don't like madness.....

Tp4 is not madness...

Offline BlackWidowMan777

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 05:10:40 »
LOL I check the PCCG site every day, and I miss this?!?

Anyway, I'd vote Ducky Shine.  I've got 2 Shine 1 and both are great.

Shine has standard size keycaps, and reasonable legends.

PS. PCCG still isn't listing the yellow one :p

Haha, me too. I've been looking for a backlit tenkeyless for some time now and since I won't be forking out $66 dollars on shipping a new SSK from Lexington I have the cash on hand to lash out on what I originally wanted.

I've heard mostly positive reports about the Shine 3 and it is comforting to know both of your Shines are doing well  ;). The thing I do like about the Francium is its professional appearance. Roland at MechKb informs me they'll be getting it in before long.

SHINE.

deck font is just madness..

I don't like madness.....

Tp4 is not madness...

lol, what is it with font that enrages some? I have not yet reached that level of astuteness to let even a lower-case 'R' bother me. Tp4 is mad though. Mad for ergodox. Hehe  :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 November 2013, 09:39:52 by BlackWidowMan777 »

Offline rowdy

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 16:38:28 »
LOL I check the PCCG site every day, and I miss this?!?

Anyway, I'd vote Ducky Shine.  I've got 2 Shine 1 and both are great.

Shine has standard size keycaps, and reasonable legends.

PS. PCCG still isn't listing the yellow one :p

Haha, me too. I've been looking for a backlit tenkeyless for some time now and since I won't be forking out $66 dollars on shipping a new SSK from Lexington I have the cash on hand to lash out on what I originally wanted.

I've heard mostly positive reports about the Shine 3 and it is comforting to know both of your Shines are doing well  ;). The thing I do like about the Francium is its professional appearance. Roland at MechKb informs me they'll be getting it in before long.

One of my Shines is at work.  I used to use it, but switched to MX blacks (and now greens).  It has green backlighting.  I have only had positive comments about it, and the guy that is borrowing it atm says he is going to miss it when I reclaim it.  He's almost ready to buy one of his own (if he can convince his other half).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 18:25:26 »
Francium - Available in Australia, best backlit on the market. Thick PBT Keycaps. No contest.

Butt ugly fonts... It's a turn off made on purpose to prevent human body fluids to end up in your keyboard.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline terran5992

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:06:50 »
Francium for the awesome caps

Listokei Custom  |  HHKB Pro 2  |  Topre Realforce 103UBH  |  Armageddon MKA-3


Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:50:15 »
^ Oh yeah
The right one is a new Deck thick PBT keycap
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline SonOfSonOfSpock

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 01:15:21 »
Deck Fancium looks really intriguing. I'd go for that based on the PBT keycaps.

Offline johndavis33

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 11:16:37 »
Get both! Put the deck caps on the shine  :))
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 11:57:24 »
Get both! Put the deck caps on the shine  :))

It's an intriguing recommendation. What makes the Shine a better platform?
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline rowdy

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 17:21:52 »
Get both! Put the deck caps on the shine  :))

It's an intriguing recommendation. What makes the Shine a better platform?

Maybe more novelty backlighting modes?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline BucklingSpring

  • Posts: 1613
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 17:33:02 »
Maybe more novelty backlighting modes?

Hum, have you seen all the tricks the new Hassium and Francium are capable of? I guess you are right, not as many as the Ducky.

Deck

Ducky

Except for a Xmass tree p!ss!ng contest. I don't see (pun intended) the added value to have so many modes.
« Last Edit: Sat, 30 November 2013, 17:40:04 by BucklingSpring »
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline BlackWidowMan777

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 20:20:04 »
Thanks for your advice guys, it's still so hard to choose as they both sound so appealing. If both have equal reliability (would have to take into account previous Decks too) then it might come down to appearance (legends, lighting effects) and maybe typing feel. The Francium has got 4 votes to the Ducky's 3 plus maybe the Francium has that professional look to it bar the butt ugly fonts (which to some is an intentional plus) but the Ducky has superior lighting albeit with lesser quality caps but in its 3rd iteration perhaps would be more tried and tested – but still I've been hearing minor quality issues on ducky 3 on the various sites but that could be down to the fact that most everyone's getting one so the razer effect may be coming into play. Is the Shine 3 as good as the Shine 2?

Maybe more novelty backlighting modes?
Except for a Xmass tree p!ss!ng contest. I don't see (pun intended) the added value to have so many modes.

lol, either would suffice as a Christmas tree.

With the lighting, I'll probably only be using a few functions: full backlighting, individual keys backlit, and  reactive mode. I've seen on the Shine 3 that they added fade effect on the reactive mode, and the Francium seems to have this too. I prefer no fade effect, so can this be turned off on either or both?

Deck Fancium looks really intriguing. I'd go for that based on the PBT keycaps.

Does the Poker 2 have the same PBT caps or are they thinner? I find that they make more of a jarring impact on the fingertips like you're typing on something hard.

Francium - Available in Australia, best backlit on the market. Thick PBT Keycaps. No contest.

compared to the shine which one in your opinion feels better to type on? I have a ducky zero with black switches and it is totally solid but I like the blacks on the steelseries 6gV2 better – in terms of the better sound it makes when bottoming out (a nice thwack) and the steelseries is maglight tough. Not sure if you have a Ducky Shine or another type of Ducky?

Offline BlackWidowMan777

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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 20:21:45 »
Get both! Put the deck caps on the shine  :))

please don't tempt me  :) and then what would the deck be without its special caps lol, but seriously, I don't need both  :-\

I guess this also means the Deck's and the Ducky's caps would be completely interchangeable?

Offline BucklingSpring

  • Posts: 1613
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 21:05:30 »
which one in your opinion feels better to type on? I have a ducky zero with black switches and it is totally solid but I like the blacks on the steelseries 6gV2 better

As you wrote it - "Feels better" is an opinion and it's totally subjective. You're on your own there.
There's many switches to chose  from. Pick the one you like.

As far as sound tastes... Very subjective too. One thing for sure, great sound doesn't mean quality. My piece of sh!t xArmor with MX Brown sounds really good (Seriously) and it's the biggest mistake of my collection. I even gave it for free and it came back because it didn't meet the expectations.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline BucklingSpring

  • Posts: 1613
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 21:08:16 »
I guess this also means the Deck's and the Ducky's caps would be completely interchangeable?

Cherry base boards may have different keycaps for the larger keys  (variable width, type of stabilizers). So I don't know for sure it they would be totally interchangeable.

In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline BlackWidowMan777

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  • Posts: 207
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 21:15:52 »
which one in your opinion feels better to type on? I have a ducky zero with black switches and it is totally solid but I like the blacks on the steelseries 6gV2 better

As you wrote it - "Feels better" is an opinion and it's totally subjective. You're on your own there.
There's many switches to chose  from. Pick the one you like.

As far as sound tastes... Very subjective too. One thing for sure, great sound doesn't mean quality. My piece of sh!t xArmor with MX Brown sounds really good (Seriously) and it's the biggest mistake of my collection. I even gave it for free and it came back because it didn't meet the expectations.

I suppose you are right, these are subjective matters. My first mechanical keyboard like so many was the blackwidow and it has that great sound and feels great to type on. Then I got a Das Ultimate cos it looks great but it came with one key (the caps lock) that didn't click. This issue resolved itself after I clicked it a few hundred times though. But as others have said many factors inherent in a particular keyboard will contribute to its typing feel and sound though it will still be subjective but palpably different.

edit: I failed to mention in my opening post that I will be installing o-rings or soft-landing pads because blues or any mechanical board are just too loud for me but I can't do without the click and tactile feel. I know buckling springs can be modded to make them quieter so in effect, if the black widow tournament (blues) came out with backlighting or the unicomp came out dampened and tenkeyless and backlit I would buy either without a second thought. Having said that the sound dampening does even out things a tad but I still use the Matias MQP and BW mostly.
« Last Edit: Sat, 30 November 2013, 21:34:25 by BlackWidowMan777 »

Offline lyrill

  • Posts: 51
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Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 11:05:48 »
peasants all over the place, ducky mindless fanboys failing to realize the superiority of deck for 2 ****ing years

ducky updated something f/h doesn't have, and that is the AMAZING fix to allow DIY fade timing.

as for the keycaps, well, DUH. DECK rules. Quality? DECK RULES, and I do mean keycaps, pcb, case, etc. EVERYTHING, including the ripple mode that has literally existed exclusively on DECK for almost 2 years, and still nothing on ducky.

Yeah, right, when they focus on stripping straches on the tuhaojin case to lure more money than they already have to, of course they don't have time for ripple mode

but in all honesty, the ripple mode and everything else included is something that stops at novelty and anything lightening related stops at keyboard niche enthusiasts jerking off to their "unique" keyboards

Most people use mech keyboards to type and or game. all aside NO professional gamer give a **** about how different their backlighting is, cus they just don't ask for lightening on their keyboards.

if you are a gamer you can call lightening keyboard lovers ****ing casuals,

if you are a keyboard geek, you can't call serious gamers "****ing casuals" just cus they are ignorant of backlightening,

And I am seemingly the ONLY person around to actually care to point out, oh wait no. A lot of people know DECK means quality more so than Filco, except most retards want the Ducky bling, and they automatically equate Deck with Fugly Whocaresaboutdis****.

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 17:25:40 »
I have a Ducky Shine II, a Ducky Shine III, and a Deck Francium Pro, so I guess I'm fairly qualified to comment here.  :D

Which is better?  That's very subjective of course, but for me it's the Francium Pro, despite the oddness.  But that's because it scratches a certain itch for me, namely being one of the few keyboards on the market where you can program your own lighting effects.

This means you can program any effect the Ducky can do, and much more.  It doesn't currently support reactive lighting effects (except the built in ones) until an upcoming firmware release adds it, so it can't quite match the Ducky's reactive modes at present.

If you're not a programmer though, then the Ducky is the better option.  You can do individual lighting on the Francium as with Ducky's custom lighting mode (where you tap the keys you want lit), but you currently have to write a script to do it which is an extra step that may annoy some.  One advantage to this is you can then set the individual brightnesses of the keys you select, whereas the Ducky's are always full bright.  One of the scripts I wrote made the WASD cluster full-bright and the alphas very dim, with the rest of the keyboard's LEDs off.  This way I could find WASD with the lights off, and still find the letter keys for typing in-game messages.

On the construction quality side, well, both seem fine there.  I quite like the Francium's faux aluminium look, for those of us that can't justify the price of a real one.  ;)

As for the Deck's key-caps.  *cough*  Well, I tried to like them, but only lasted a day before I ripped them off and replaced them with Ducky ones.  It wasn't just the weird font; they're supposed to be back-lit keys, but they really don't let a lot of the LED's light through.  In daytime I couldn't see them at all, which is a problem when they're used to indicate caps-lock, macro mode, etc.  They were also my first PBT keys, but I admit I don't see what the attraction is of them.  I prefer the Ducky's ABS keys.

Oh, one other thing.  The Francium has a programmable macro layer, very much like the Poker II, where you can program in a series of key-strokes and delays on any key of the keyboard, something the Ducky can't do.  You can even save them to disk for loading in later.  This wasn't much of a consideration for me as I haven't found much of a use for that, but it may be a nice feature for others.

The Francium is currently the board I use the most, but my Ducky's aren't TKL boards, and I've definitely learned that TKL is my preferred keyboard style.  However, I think I'd still use the Francium if the Ducky's were TKL as well, simply because I can customise the lighting to just how I like it.

Oh, and the Francium comes with a key-cap puller that doubles as a bottle opener.  :thumb:

Hope that helps.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline BucklingSpring

  • Posts: 1613
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 18:39:35 »
Oh, and the Francium comes with a key-cap puller that doubles as a bottle opener.  :thumb:

Say what? I got an early Francium and Hassium - The keypullers that came with them does not seem to fit the description.
Show picture plz :-)
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
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Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 18:49:42 »

Image courtesy of MechKB.com
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline MissMurd3r84

  • Posts: 641
  • Location: New South Wales, Australia.
  • In IRC wondering why Kmiller8 is yelling.
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 03:48:59 »
I believe that is the Asia-Pacific version that comes with that.. the one without PBT keys?
Edit: It's the Deck Hassium Pro with ABS keys, that the keypuller is on the page of.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 March 2014, 03:52:10 by MissMurd3r84 »
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:06:06 »
the backlight controller is supposed to be reprogrammable right?  has anyone seen any work done on that yet?
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline lyrill

  • Posts: 51
  • Location: United States
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:20:50 »
Show Image

Image courtesy of MechKB.com

so your saying that the pbt version also came with that niche metal thingy?

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:23:18 »
he's just showing the keycap puller for comparison.

that board in the background looks definitely backlit.
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline lyrill

  • Posts: 51
  • Location: United States
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:39:46 »
---------the backlight controller is supposed to be reprogrammable right?  has anyone seen any work done on that yet?--------

http://www.youtube.com/user/DeckKeyboards

ur welcome
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:42:50 by lyrill »

Offline lyrill

  • Posts: 51
  • Location: United States
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:41:27 »
he's just showing the keycap puller for comparison.

that board in the background looks definitely backlit.

comparsion for what?

i meant, did the pbt ver come with the puller, cus the abs did, and the pbt shouldn't have. and Shayed claims he has the pbt.

So please don't answer when not asked.

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:42:46 »
oh noes...i wish i hadn't seen those videos.

bye bye money. again
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline lyrill

  • Posts: 51
  • Location: United States
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 04:43:59 »
oh noes...i wish i hadn't seen those videos.

bye bye money. again

LAWLLWAL

which ver u gonna get? didn't doublecheck amzon, but 4 vers available on mk,com

can u actually believe, even if low stock, that a lot of models have already sold OUT ??like WTF. I thought only koreans were using F/h

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 23:14:46 »
the backlight controller is supposed to be reprogrammable right?  has anyone seen any work done on that yet?

Yep.  These are examples of LED scripts I have written (crap quality, I know, sorry):




Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 23:16:09 »
Show Image

Image courtesy of MechKB.com

so your saying that the pbt version also came with that niche metal thingy?

Yep.  I got my keyboard from MechanicalKeyboards.com, and it came with PBT keys, and that key puller/bottle opener.

Edit:  I just remembered I took a photo of mine in my Francium review which you can find here: http://imgur.com/a/tW2xq
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 March 2014, 23:23:09 by Shayde »
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 23:31:58 »
^ thanks for the review.

looks like I won't be getting one since i'm only interested in programming my own reactive modes.
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline Grendel

  • Posts: 462
  • Location: OR, USA
    • Firmware for Costar Replacement Controllers
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 00:02:21 »
looks like I won't be getting one since i'm only interested in programming my own reactive modes.

Check out the User Guide 1st. I don't think you will be able to program any form of reactive LED responses, I don't see a way to query the key matrix.
Currently using: RK-9000WH/GR, CMS QFXT w/ Ghost Squid
- I'm game !

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 00:09:34 »
i think you might have misread my post.

but thanks for the links.  i definitely don't see any sort of user input detection there :(  i hope the corsair rgb controller is more programmable.
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline MissMurd3r84

  • Posts: 641
  • Location: New South Wales, Australia.
  • In IRC wondering why Kmiller8 is yelling.
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 00:11:22 »
Show Image

Image courtesy of MechKB.com

so your saying that the pbt version also came with that niche metal thingy?


Yep.  I got my keyboard from MechanicalKeyboards.com, and it came with PBT keys, and that key puller/bottle opener.

Edit:  I just remembered I took a photo of mine in my Francium review which you can find here: http://imgur.com/a/tW2xq
Ok, now I understand, I was thinking you got it from MechKB.com since the pic was from there, not that they had the TKL Deck advertised for long  :( So now I understand, some of the MK versions come with it too, cool.
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 00:27:31 »
^ thanks for the review.

looks like I won't be getting one since i'm only interested in programming my own reactive modes.

Trust me, they're working on it.  I'm not sure if I can say more.  But it is coming.

You're probably better to wait for the Corsair board anyway, though, because that will be programmed in Lua, making it significantly easier to work with than the Deck scripting language, which is based on an old-sk00l BASIC dialect.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 00:31:28 »
i'm a programmer by trade, so i'm not really worried about programming it.

thanks for letting me know.  hopefully YOU put up some more videos of your work though :)

EDIT:

i didn't realize it would be using lua, but it's interesting they're taking that much effort.
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 00:47:54 »
i'm a programmer by trade, so i'm not really worried about programming it.

Sorry, I didn't mean that the Corsair board would be easier for n00bs, but that it's easier to do effects with.  The Deck scripting language doesn't support any kind of look-up table for instance, which is easy for Lua.  The only storage you get in the Deck language (currently) is sixteen 16-bit registers, with no way to index them.  It makes producing effects rather challenging. ;)  Lua is a far more powerful language, as you're probably aware.

If anything, the Deck language is more n00b friendly.  It's very minimal.

thanks for letting me know.  hopefully YOU put up some more videos of your work though

You can see a couple more of my scripts on MechKB's web-site (http://www.mechkb.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=da6d3d314ad02a1d8347595727e95e50), running on a Hassium.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline lowmagnet

  • Posts: 12
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 22:14:39 »
I recently bought (and returned) the Francium 87 (they stopped with the pro)

Pros:

Really nice to type on (I had reds) with solid keys (no clack on bottom out)
Doesn't move on the table at all
Quiet

Cons:
f10 => fn-f10
f11 => fn-f11
f12 => fn-ESC

The f-keys are different so they could put their special functions on those keys. The somewhat useless pause/break, print screen, and scroll lock were mostly un-touched.

If you use something like IntelliJ, it's obscene to have to change your breakpointing/debugging habits because of this. Chrome/FF use those keys to step through javascript. Unforgivable.

Font was growing on me, even though it was a bit d00d for my tastes.

I will likely pick up the shine 3 when it goes back into stock in the States. In white.

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 14 March 2014, 22:21:02 »
Cons:
f10 => fn-f10
f11 => fn-f11
f12 => fn-ESC

Minor point: on mine F10 is intact.  You press Fn + F10 to toggle the n-key rollover.  I agree with you on how it's weird they took over F11 & F12 but left PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause intact.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline lowmagnet

  • Posts: 12
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 21:03:07 »
Minor point: on mine F10 is intact.  You press Fn + F10 to toggle the n-key rollover.  I agree with you on how it's weird they took over F11 & F12 but left PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause intact.

Yeah, that's another thing. There's a Francium Pro, and then there's the Francium 87, which is more recent. It doesn't have a lighting controller with the same control as the Hassium, and it also has that f10 issue. I don't know why they keep iterating on the keyboard while at the same time refusing to change the font.

I think that keyboard with Bank Gothic and the f-keys in tact would be perfect.

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 21:32:39 »
Yeah, that's another thing. There's a Francium Pro, and then there's the Francium 87, which is more recent. It doesn't have a lighting controller with the same control as the Hassium, and it also has that f10 issue. I don't know why they keep iterating on the keyboard while at the same time refusing to change the font.

I think that keyboard with Bank Gothic and the f-keys in tact would be perfect.

Are you sure?  I was under the impression there were always four models: Hassium, Hassium Pro, Francium, Francium Pro.  Only the Pro models have the programmable lighting modes.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline lowmagnet

  • Posts: 12
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 15:52:22 »
Hassium is now only pro, and Francium is now only non-pro. Source: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/products

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: 'Francium or Shine?' – that is the question...
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 06:20:50 »
Hassium is now only pro, and Francium is now only non-pro. Source: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/products

I seem to remember they always had them advertised like that on their web-site, so assumed they were just highlighting the more popular models.  If it's the case they no longer make the Francium Pro and the Hassium, that is a concern.  It's annoying to think my board has already been discontinued when it's not even two months old.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).