Author Topic: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it  (Read 1415 times)

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Offline KHAANNN

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I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 20:07:54 »
On the quest for a perfect green switched / clicky keyboard, I opened / modded each switch, then I segmented them, and selected switches for each key, left the bad switches for the F keys, saved the best for the space / modifers / and the letters / characters

I thought the space key should be the strongest of them all, so I selected a switch that produces a very strong/sharp click

Now after the keyboard is completed, I really can't handle the sharpness of the space key, it also didn't help that I used a red-switched keyboard while I was working on this one

The space key is piercing my brain at each space, it's very strong, now I'm thinking that the most used key on the keyboard should have been mellow instead

I tested externally lubing a single switch, picked a faultily modded one, that clicks too much, it successfully mellowed out the switch/click

Now the question is, should I try to adjust and enjoy, endure the pain for a while, or should I just mellow the space out, what do you guys think, should the space key be mellow, or strong and clicky?

Here is the beast:
93106-0
93108-1
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Offline Korth

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 20:13:59 »
Long have I thought of modding a Spacebar with two - count 'em - two switches.  More bouncy, more durable.

Alas, also too complicated to be worth the effort when the retention spring/bar/lever mechanism gets involved.  Such a pain to reinstall, lol.


Offline KHAANNN

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 07 March 2015, 20:24:20 »
Long have I thought of modding a Spacebar with two - count 'em - two switches.  More bouncy, more durable.

Alas, also too complicated to be worth the effort when the retention spring/bar/lever mechanism gets involved.  Such a pain to reinstall, lol.

2 red's in the sides + blue/green/clear makes sense, it would leave the tactility/click to one switch, 2 blue's would never work for example, you would hear 2 clicks apart

3 red's or 2 red's + black also makes some sense, or just 2 red's or 2 black's

Indeed it's very complicated, just thinking about it made me appreciate the simplicity/robustness of the costar/cherry stabilisers

I managed to get a diverse click sound with this new setup (randomly, it's possible to get 2 different experiences from 2 different sides of the spacebar)
I just retried until I found a switch that produces the same click from both sides, it clicks the same however you touch the space key, I'm certainly proud, yet I have a headache
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Offline falkentyne

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 08 March 2015, 01:05:53 »
Why didn't you use a MX Blue for the spacebar, Khan?
Ducky actually uses that on their shine 69 fire board, and I find it works extremely well (even though it clicks). 

Offline ander

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 08 March 2015, 05:18:36 »
We learn by doing.   ;D
Every day is a bank account, and time is our currency. No one is rich, no one is poor; we've got 24 hours each. – Christopher Rice

Offline paicrai

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 08 March 2015, 21:50:13 »
gee, let it live a little


i'd honestly just do something about it, like it's bothering you right? if it is i dont see a reason not to change it
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Offline Korth

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 08 March 2015, 23:07:46 »
Not sure I would  like a tactile-clicky spacebar, personally.  A blue would bug me a lot, clicky-clunk clicky-clonk.  Linear clears (two!) would be ideal, I suppose.

But if you lose sleep because you hate your modded spacebar then of course fix it.  Install a doubled-up polydome coontact switch if no other parts come to mind, lol who knows?

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 01:58:23 »
Why didn't you use a MX Blue for the spacebar, Khan?
Ducky actually uses that on their shine 69 fire board, and I find it works extremely well (even though it clicks).
That's an interesting idea, but that board pushes it too far it seems, switch variations always seem distracting to me, yet since the space bar has it's unique sound and characteristics, it varies naturally, so a different switch dynamic makes sense

I also suspect the issue is more psychological, if I fix the space bar, I will probably start being bothered by the down-arrow and "r" keys, which somehow missed my ping-tests

I also started questioning my dedication to the green switches, just got a leopold numpad with blues, the blues seem very mellow clicky, too soft tho, yet I'm sure they will be brain piercing too on an actual board that gets thumped on heavily, I guess my next board might have clears and I'm sure when I'm on that board, I will decide to have black switches next

What do you guys think about the command keycaps?
I had a hard time deciding on what to use for them too, tried the Fn + Win from the Dolch set, but using the "Fn" key as a mac-command key was confusing on a micro-level, I also don't want to use the "Win" keycaps
This PBT blacks are a very different shade, I bought the 2 black and 1 gray shade that SP was selling, the blacks turned out to be identical (might be an error on sp's part), and the gray looks almost white with the Dolch's:
93245-0
93247-1
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Offline Oobly

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:15:15 »
MX clicky are all "brain-piercing" to me. The click is too high pitch and plasticky for my taste, so I go with 62g ErgoClears for maximum tactility and best feel and add trampolines and latex for extra silencing and even more premium feel. I use a stock Clear spring in the spacebar switch. Also, lube cures the ping and there's no clicky part to be interfered with. Aaahh...

My latest "problem" is sqeaky stabilisers (harvested from a G80)... time to get out the lube again :) Odd thing is the Ducky ones and KBT Pure ones don't suffer from this, only the "genuine" Cherry ones...
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:26:54 »
MX clicky are all "brain-piercing" to me. The click is too high pitch and plasticky for my taste, so I go with 62g ErgoClears for maximum tactility and best feel and add trampolines and latex for extra silencing and even more premium feel. I use a stock Clear spring in the spacebar switch. Also, lube cures the ping and there's no clicky part to be interfered with. Aaahh...

My latest "problem" is sqeaky stabilisers (harvested from a G80)... time to get out the lube again :) Odd thing is the Ducky ones and KBT Pure ones don't suffer from this, only the "genuine" Cherry ones...
:D
One of the initial reasons I jumped onto Green's were imperfect and disturbing stabilisers with Red's, the clicks, especially green clicks, absorb whatever mushiness//clinkiness the stabs might have, even after lubing and perfecting them, after a while one of the corners start causing issues again, not with Green's

I thought Clear's won't have those issues tho, as the tactility might absorb the stab issues too, I'm guessing Costar clear's might be perfect too, whereas Cherry ones need harder mods

I would really like some links and guidance on your mods, please, you flamed my clear-interest :)

(I was considering buying a KUL ES-87, and replacing the switches with modded clears, then decided to enjoy what I have for as long as I can instead, you definitely ruined my serenity :)
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:28:55 by KHAANNN »
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Offline Oobly

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 04:39:15 »
I'm very happy with the stabs in my Ducky and KBT Pro, particularly the KBT, it's just these G80 ones that are both squeaky and rattly. They're all Cherry style, I'm not a fan of Costar stabs.

This thread contains both the mods I mentioned: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0

You can use any small piece of rubber for trampolines, but the balls IMSTO sells are the most convenient and consistent. I very slightly prefer feel of the original pieces of oring, but now usually use the silicone balls from IMSTO for these reasons.

The latex mod involves adding 2 dabs of liquid latex to the inside of the top switch casing where the slider hits it:


I have used 62g springs from Originative and from Sprit and they're all consistent and don't ping once lubed.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 05:39:57 »
Wellp, I've never even considered depress sound up until now, makes sense to muffle that too

Liquid latex seems very risky, I guess I would just touch that parts once with a hot silicone gun, which is also risky, but easier to find/apply (at least for me) (The silicone might also fall off after a while)

I recently bought some greases and silicone/rubber products that I didn't test yet, it feels like there might be many products out there that can be used for keyboard modification purposes, did you get a chance to test your plastidip idea?
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 06:45:57 »
This worked by the way, the sound is very manageable now, I applied it to the command keys, space and the arrow keys, since they are on the bottom row, their sounds aren't as contained as the other keys
I've also tested various blue/green switches, the issue turned out to be more of a bottom row sound dynamic issue rather than a switch sound issue
Anyway, 2 thick o-rings doesn't work well, yet a thick and a light o-ring works wonders, I only have ~<10 light o-rings at this moment, but I don't think I would o-ring the entire board even if I had enough
I would definitely o-ring the bottom row tho (I guess I should, since I seem to have just enough o-rings :)
The reason I removed the o-rings in the first place was because some of the switches were weak, and didn't click with the o-rings, but after the modding/selecting this isn't the case
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Offline yomammary

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 07:05:13 »
2 o-rings? Interesting.
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: I've created a monster and I'm not sure what to do about it
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 09 March 2015, 14:52:20 »
2 o-rings? Interesting.
I'm thinking of 3d-printing rings that will grab on to this o-ring incompatible keycaps/stem-tubes and act as travel reducers, so that I can be able to o-ring all the keys right away and with single o-rings

Yet the space key is really enough to reduce the sound to a manageable level, I might even/probably remove these o-rings in the future, if my ears adjust to the sound // I forgot about the issue (stop obsessing)

I also tried double red o-rings, it works too, yet it felt more rigid, however the experiment wasn't a controlled one
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